Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

"Our vision is to speed up time, eventually eliminating it." -- Alex Schure

interests / rec.games.backgammon / Rollout: Some kind of cube decision

SubjectAuthor
* Some kind of cube decisionTimothy Chow
+* Re: Some kind of cube decisionah...Clem
|`- Re: Some kind of cube decisionStick Rice
`- Rollout: Some kind of cube decisionTimothy Chow

1
Some kind of cube decision

<s8iv4g$kqh$2@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=6433&group=rec.games.backgammon#6433

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Some kind of cube decision
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 09:46:55 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <s8iv4g$kqh$2@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 13:46:56 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="febf8b45260f009a7f848c459f8c21cd";
logging-data="21329"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/Day5uOgS69f8gaRzD/M1vGonZKIL36UU="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/78.10.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:ht/y6w2KFI0cH2CsvkzWYQpbQVU=
Content-Language: en-US
X-Mozilla-News-Host: news://news.eternal-september.org:119
 by: Timothy Chow - Tue, 25 May 2021 13:46 UTC

XGID=-BbBBBBB-A--c-----Bcbabb--:1:1:1:00:0:0:0:0:10

X:Player 1 O:Player 2
Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X | | O O O O O |
| X | | O O O O |
| | | O |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | |
| O | | | +---+
| O X | | X X X X O X | | 2 |
| O X X | | X X X X O X | +---+
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 97 O: 127 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, X own cube
X on roll, cube action

---
Tim Chow

Re: Some kind of cube decision

<s8j1pd$91o$1@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=6434&group=rec.games.backgammon#6434

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ah_c...@ymail.com (ah...Clem)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Some kind of cube decision
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 10:32:11 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <s8j1pd$91o$1@dont-email.me>
References: <s8iv4g$kqh$2@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 14:32:13 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="c3a9a3604b06d61288a11bb35cfe3ce8";
logging-data="9272"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+SarsqmmQS+94jWyzGF3Cu"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/78.10.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:+gjZkanrJVEPWZhe8cD6ioyQe6I=
In-Reply-To: <s8iv4g$kqh$2@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: ah...Clem - Tue, 25 May 2021 14:32 UTC

On 5/25/2021 9:46 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
> XGID=-BbBBBBB-A--c-----Bcbabb--:1:1:1:00:0:0:0:0:10
>
> X:Player 1   O:Player 2
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
>  +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
>  |                X |   | O  O  O  O  O    |
>  |                X |   | O  O     O  O    |
>  |                  |   | O                |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |BAR|                  |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  | O                |   |                  | +---+
>  | O              X |   | X  X  X  X  O  X | | 2 |
>  | O        X     X |   | X  X  X  X  O  X | +---+
>  +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count  X: 97  O: 127 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 2, X own cube
> X on roll, cube action

I suppose I'd call this a "mutual holding game" cube.

Are they usually takes? Not sure.

Seems like O has enough to take here with the nice board and X still
needing to clear the 18 point. Might be a cube but I'll take a shake.
Doubles other than 66 are market losers, but I'm not seeing any others.
Well, O rolling 33, 44, or 55. That's eight, one shy of the requisite 9.

ND/T.

OTOH, I might ship it OTB against an inferior player to try to provoke
an error.

Re: Some kind of cube decision

<12f13c81-17a5-4303-8086-0b0eca2f62fan@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=6436&group=rec.games.backgammon#6436

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:18d:: with SMTP id q13mr39221328qvr.60.1621976960104;
Tue, 25 May 2021 14:09:20 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a9d:38f:: with SMTP id f15mr14379020otf.369.1621976959843;
Tue, 25 May 2021 14:09:19 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.snarked.org!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 14:09:19 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <s8j1pd$91o$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=174.30.196.243; posting-account=yTK5ugoAAACRs3TgAz02kMublhPpKQBJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 174.30.196.243
References: <s8iv4g$kqh$2@dont-email.me> <s8j1pd$91o$1@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <12f13c81-17a5-4303-8086-0b0eca2f62fan@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Some kind of cube decision
From: bananabo...@gmail.com (Stick Rice)
Injection-Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 21:09:20 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Lines: 39
 by: Stick Rice - Tue, 25 May 2021 21:09 UTC

On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 10:32:15 AM UTC-4, ah...Clem wrote:
> On 5/25/2021 9:46 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
> > XGID=-BbBBBBB-A--c-----Bcbabb--:1:1:1:00:0:0:0:0:10
> >
> > X:Player 1 O:Player 2
> > Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> > +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> > | X | | O O O O O |
> > | X | | O O O O |
> > | | | O |
> > | | | |
> > | | | |
> > | |BAR| |
> > | | | |
> > | | | |
> > | O | | | +---+
> > | O X | | X X X X O X | | 2 |
> > | O X X | | X X X X O X | +---+
> > +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> > Pip count X: 97 O: 127 X-O: 0-0
> > Cube: 2, X own cube
> > X on roll, cube action
> I suppose I'd call this a "mutual holding game" cube.
>
> Are they usually takes? Not sure.
>
> Seems like O has enough to take here with the nice board and X still
> needing to clear the 18 point. Might be a cube but I'll take a shake.
> Doubles other than 66 are market losers, but I'm not seeing any others.
> Well, O rolling 33, 44, or 55. That's eight, one shy of the requisite 9.
>
> ND/T.
>
>
> OTOH, I might ship it OTB against an inferior player to try to provoke
> an error.

It's a recube. You need 11-12 market losing sequences in general. I wouldn't even use my delay time on this cube, it's just not there.

Stick

Rollout: Some kind of cube decision

<s8o4ek$5p3$1@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=6455&group=rec.games.backgammon#6455

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Rollout: Some kind of cube decision
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 08:48:19 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <s8o4ek$5p3$1@dont-email.me>
References: <s8iv4g$kqh$2@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 12:48:20 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="16cbe3cc2d4478470cc67e8c2b4b24e8";
logging-data="5923"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+zYOqVYW3CeAzpIJcMZvnkcDsr/pleMdU="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/78.10.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:DrYotGsKpKdYjTxq6eColvCVV7A=
In-Reply-To: <s8iv4g$kqh$2@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Timothy Chow - Thu, 27 May 2021 12:48 UTC

XGID=-BbBBBBB-A--c-----Bcbabb--:1:1:1:00:0:0:0:0:10

X:Player 1 O:Player 2
Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X | | O O O O O |
| X | | O O O O |
| | | O |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | |
| O | | | +---+
| O X | | X X X X O X | | 2 |
| O X X | | X X X X O X | +---+
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 97 O: 127 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 2, X own cube
X on roll, cube action

Some would pass this one because they have two checkers stuck
behind X's five-prime. But although X obviously has a clear
advantage, it's too early for O to give up. In fact, there
aren't a lot of market losers here, and the rollout says it's
a clear ND.

Analyzed in Rollout
No redouble
Player Winning Chances: 64.89% (G:14.99% B:0.64%)
Opponent Winning Chances: 35.11% (G:7.20% B:0.33%)
Redouble/Take
Player Winning Chances: 65.47% (G:14.99% B:0.67%)
Opponent Winning Chances: 34.53% (G:7.26% B:0.31%)

Cubeful Equities:
No redouble: +0.632
Redouble/Take: +0.547 (-0.085)
Redouble/Pass: +1.000 (+0.368)

Best Cube action: No redouble / Take
Percentage of wrong pass needed to make the double decision right: 15.8%

Rollout:
1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller
Confidence No Double: ± 0.008 (+0.624..+0.640)
Confidence Double: ± 0.016 (+0.531..+0.563)

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.207.pre-release

---
Tim Chow

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.81
clearnet tor