Apparently Festool has been busy designing with their SawStop
technology, and their Shaper Origin technology.

Seems they have patents on a trackless track saw, that corrects for you.
Hummmm.

Same for the miter saw, correction and saw stop.

And umm a light on a drill that knows where the light needs to be
pointed as the bit goes into the work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWrcj6GcUlE

On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:37:04 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>Apparently Festool has been busy designing with their SawStop
>technology, and their Shaper Origin technology.
>
>
>Seems they have patents on a trackless track saw, that corrects for you.
> Hummmm.

I'm not buying that one. How does the blade change course in the
workpiece? I guess it could "see" the line before it enters the piece
then pull the arm in that direction, X-Y and direction. Why?

A jigsaw, I could understand.
>
>Same for the miter saw, correction and saw stop.
Same issue.
>And umm a light on a drill that knows where the light needs to be
>pointed as the bit goes into the work.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWrcj6GcUlE

Towards the tip of the bit, obviously. ;-)

On 3/19/2022 1:18 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:37:04 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> Apparently Festool has been busy designing with their SawStop
>> technology, and their Shaper Origin technology.
>>
>>
>> Seems they have patents on a trackless track saw, that corrects for you.
>> Hummmm.
>
> I'm not buying that one. How does the blade change course in the
> workpiece? I guess it could "see" the line before it enters the piece
> then pull the arm in that direction, X-Y and direction. Why?
>
> A jigsaw, I could understand.
>>
>> Same for the miter saw, correction and saw stop.
>
> Same issue.
>> And umm a light on a drill that knows where the light needs to be
>> pointed as the bit goes into the work.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWrcj6GcUlE
>
> Towards the tip of the bit, obviously. ;-)
>

In the beginning. but the tip moves away as it goes in. Apparently the
light stays pointed at where the bit went in.

Patents are not always the next great thing.

On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 19:41:45 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 3/19/2022 1:18 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:37:04 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently Festool has been busy designing with their SawStop
>>> technology, and their Shaper Origin technology.
>>>
>>>
>>> Seems they have patents on a trackless track saw, that corrects for you.
>>> Hummmm.
>>
>> I'm not buying that one. How does the blade change course in the
>> workpiece? I guess it could "see" the line before it enters the piece
>> then pull the arm in that direction, X-Y and direction. Why?
>>
>> A jigsaw, I could understand.
>>>
>>> Same for the miter saw, correction and saw stop.
>>
>> Same issue.
>>> And umm a light on a drill that knows where the light needs to be
>>> pointed as the bit goes into the work.
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWrcj6GcUlE
>>
>> Towards the tip of the bit, obviously. ;-)
>>
>
>
>In the beginning. but the tip moves away as it goes in. Apparently the
>light stays pointed at where the bit went in.

Why? It's not going anywhere.

>Patents are not always the next great thing.

That's a fact. I have eight of them. They looked good on a resume but
that and the incentive money is all they're good for. ;-)

On 3/19/2022 10:46 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 19:41:45 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 3/19/2022 1:18 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:37:04 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Apparently Festool has been busy designing with their SawStop
>>>> technology, and their Shaper Origin technology.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Seems they have patents on a trackless track saw, that corrects for you.
>>>> Hummmm.
>>>
>>> I'm not buying that one. How does the blade change course in the
>>> workpiece? I guess it could "see" the line before it enters the piece
>>> then pull the arm in that direction, X-Y and direction. Why?
>>>
>>> A jigsaw, I could understand.
>>>>
>>>> Same for the miter saw, correction and saw stop.
>>>
>>> Same issue.
>>>> And umm a light on a drill that knows where the light needs to be
>>>> pointed as the bit goes into the work.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWrcj6GcUlE
>>>
>>> Towards the tip of the bit, obviously. ;-)
>>>
>>
>>
>> In the beginning. but the tip moves away as it goes in. Apparently the
>> light stays pointed at where the bit went in.
>
> Why? It's not going anywhere.

Well having the patent on the method/technology can lead to other uses.
A patent on the technology used is a" weird/it aint gonna happen way"
does not necessarily point at the tool that it could be used on. They
figured out a way to get something to point in a direction and track that.

For instance, still considering a drill, if they can track where the
drill is, in relation to the surface, they could put in a laser in
instead of a regular light to track how far the bit has entered below
the surface. Like setting a depth stop in a DP. The drill could stop
spinning once the bit had gone a certain depth. Just a thought.

Not actually showing the exact use of the patent technology does not
give the competition a hint as to where this might be headed.

>
>> Patents are not always the next great thing.
>
> That's a fact. I have eight of them. They looked good on a resume but
> that and the incentive money is all they're good for. ;-)

On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:47:25 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 3/19/2022 10:46 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 19:41:45 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/19/2022 1:18 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:37:04 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Apparently Festool has been busy designing with their SawStop
>>>>> technology, and their Shaper Origin technology.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems they have patents on a trackless track saw, that corrects for you.
>>>>> Hummmm.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not buying that one. How does the blade change course in the
>>>> workpiece? I guess it could "see" the line before it enters the piece
>>>> then pull the arm in that direction, X-Y and direction. Why?
>>>>
>>>> A jigsaw, I could understand.
>>>>>
>>>>> Same for the miter saw, correction and saw stop.
>>>>
>>>> Same issue.
>>>>> And umm a light on a drill that knows where the light needs to be
>>>>> pointed as the bit goes into the work.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWrcj6GcUlE
>>>>
>>>> Towards the tip of the bit, obviously. ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In the beginning. but the tip moves away as it goes in. Apparently the
>>> light stays pointed at where the bit went in.
>>
>> Why? It's not going anywhere.
>
>Well having the patent on the method/technology can lead to other uses.
> A patent on the technology used is a" weird/it aint gonna happen way"
>does not necessarily point at the tool that it could be used on. They
>figured out a way to get something to point in a direction and track that.
>
>For instance, still considering a drill, if they can track where the
>drill is, in relation to the surface, they could put in a laser in
>instead of a regular light to track how far the bit has entered below
>the surface. Like setting a depth stop in a DP. The drill could stop
>spinning once the bit had gone a certain depth. Just a thought.

Sounds like a damn expensive stop collar or rod.
>
>Not actually showing the exact use of the patent technology does not
>give the competition a hint as to where this might be headed.
>
For a patent to be valid, the best (at the time of application)
implementation and utility has to be disclosed.

There may be something there or it might just be that they're hoping
to shotgun the technology to lay some claim to beat others over the
head with. When I worked at IBM (and likely still happens) when
someone came to IBM with an infringement claim, the first thing IBM
lawyers did was to pull everything out that the claimant could
possibly be infringing on (I was on a few of the hunts). They'd put a
pile of patents in front of their lawyers and play "Lets Make a Deal".
Most patents are defensive - protecting from attacks on the flanks of
the technology, as it were.
OTOH, for several years, IBM made more on its patent licensing than it
did with everything else combined. Hell, some years they would have
shown a loss without the licensing of the mountain of patents.

On 3/21/2022 1:17 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:47:25 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 3/19/2022 10:46 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 19:41:45 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/19/2022 1:18 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:37:04 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Apparently Festool has been busy designing with their SawStop
>>>>>> technology, and their Shaper Origin technology.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seems they have patents on a trackless track saw, that corrects for you.
>>>>>> Hummmm.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not buying that one. How does the blade change course in the
>>>>> workpiece? I guess it could "see" the line before it enters the piece
>>>>> then pull the arm in that direction, X-Y and direction. Why?
>>>>>
>>>>> A jigsaw, I could understand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Same for the miter saw, correction and saw stop.
>>>>>
>>>>> Same issue.
>>>>>> And umm a light on a drill that knows where the light needs to be
>>>>>> pointed as the bit goes into the work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWrcj6GcUlE
>>>>>
>>>>> Towards the tip of the bit, obviously. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the beginning. but the tip moves away as it goes in. Apparently the
>>>> light stays pointed at where the bit went in.
>>>
>>> Why? It's not going anywhere.
>>
>> Well having the patent on the method/technology can lead to other uses.
>> A patent on the technology used is a" weird/it aint gonna happen way"
>> does not necessarily point at the tool that it could be used on. They
>> figured out a way to get something to point in a direction and track that.
>>
>> For instance, still considering a drill, if they can track where the
>> drill is, in relation to the surface, they could put in a laser in
>> instead of a regular light to track how far the bit has entered below
>> the surface. Like setting a depth stop in a DP. The drill could stop
>> spinning once the bit had gone a certain depth. Just a thought.
>
> Sounds like a damn expensive stop collar or rod.

Well in tight spots..... One can use a template with a router or get
an Origin. ;~)

Not for everybody.

FWIW Technatool has an electronic direct drive drill press. It can be
programed to turn off when a certain depth has been reached. Along side
the manual stop set up fount on most all drill presses.

https://www.teknatool.com/products/drill-presses/nova-voyager-dvr-drill-press/

Not for everybody.

>>
>> Not actually showing the exact use of the patent technology does not
>> give the competition a hint as to where this might be headed.
>>
> For a patent to be valid, the best (at the time of application)
> implementation and utility has to be disclosed.
>
> There may be something there or it might just be that they're hoping
> to shotgun the technology to lay some claim to beat others over the
> head with. When I worked at IBM (and likely still happens) when
> someone came to IBM with an infringement claim, the first thing IBM
> lawyers did was to pull everything out that the claimant could
> possibly be infringing on (I was on a few of the hunts). They'd put a
> pile of patents in front of their lawyers and play "Lets Make a Deal".
> Most patents are defensive - protecting from attacks on the flanks of
> the technology, as it were.
>
> OTOH, for several years, IBM made more on its patent licensing than it
> did with everything else combined. Hell, some years they would have
> shown a loss without the licensing of the mountain of patents.

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 3:05:53 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 3/21/2022 1:17 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> > On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:47:25 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 3/19/2022 10:46 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 19:41:45 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 3/19/2022 1:18 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:37:04 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Apparently Festool has been busy designing with their SawStop
> >>>>>> technology, and their Shaper Origin technology.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Seems they have patents on a trackless track saw, that corrects for you.
> >>>>>> Hummmm.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm not buying that one. How does the blade change course in the
> >>>>> workpiece? I guess it could "see" the line before it enters the piece
> >>>>> then pull the arm in that direction, X-Y and direction. Why?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A jigsaw, I could understand.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Same for the miter saw, correction and saw stop.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Same issue.
> >>>>>> And umm a light on a drill that knows where the light needs to be
> >>>>>> pointed as the bit goes into the work.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWrcj6GcUlE
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Towards the tip of the bit, obviously. ;-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> In the beginning. but the tip moves away as it goes in. Apparently the
> >>>> light stays pointed at where the bit went in.
> >>>
> >>> Why? It's not going anywhere.
> >>
> >> Well having the patent on the method/technology can lead to other uses.
> >> A patent on the technology used is a" weird/it aint gonna happen way"
> >> does not necessarily point at the tool that it could be used on. They
> >> figured out a way to get something to point in a direction and track that.
> >>
> >> For instance, still considering a drill, if they can track where the
> >> drill is, in relation to the surface, they could put in a laser in
> >> instead of a regular light to track how far the bit has entered below
> >> the surface. Like setting a depth stop in a DP. The drill could stop
> >> spinning once the bit had gone a certain depth. Just a thought.
> >
> > Sounds like a damn expensive stop collar or rod.
> Well in tight spots..... One can use a template with a router or get
> an Origin. ;~)
>
> Not for everybody.
>
> FWIW Technatool has an electronic direct drive drill press. It can be
> programed to turn off when a certain depth has been reached. Along side
> the manual stop set up fount on most all drill presses.
>
> https://www.teknatool.com/products/drill-presses/nova-voyager-dvr-drill-press/
>
> Not for everybody.

Not something you see very often on a page for a "basic" shop tool:

"Click here for Firmware Upgrade"

Eventually it will be the norm, considering 3D printers, CNC routers, etc. Smart
technology in a drill press. Who woulda thunk it? ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iwsnkvfhI4

> >>
> >> Not actually showing the exact use of the patent technology does not
> >> give the competition a hint as to where this might be headed.
> >>
> > For a patent to be valid, the best (at the time of application)
> > implementation and utility has to be disclosed.
> >
> > There may be something there or it might just be that they're hoping
> > to shotgun the technology to lay some claim to beat others over the
> > head with. When I worked at IBM (and likely still happens) when
> > someone came to IBM with an infringement claim, the first thing IBM
> > lawyers did was to pull everything out that the claimant could
> > possibly be infringing on (I was on a few of the hunts). They'd put a
> > pile of patents in front of their lawyers and play "Lets Make a Deal".
> > Most patents are defensive - protecting from attacks on the flanks of
> > the technology, as it were.
> >
> > OTOH, for several years, IBM made more on its patent licensing than it
> > did with everything else combined. Hell, some years they would have
> > shown a loss without the licensing of the mountain of patents.

On 3/21/2022 3:51 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 3:05:53 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/21/2022 1:17 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:47:25 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/19/2022 10:46 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 19:41:45 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/19/2022 1:18 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:37:04 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Apparently Festool has been busy designing with their SawStop
>>>>>>>> technology, and their Shaper Origin technology.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seems they have patents on a trackless track saw, that corrects for you.
>>>>>>>> Hummmm.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not buying that one. How does the blade change course in the
>>>>>>> workpiece? I guess it could "see" the line before it enters the piece
>>>>>>> then pull the arm in that direction, X-Y and direction. Why?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A jigsaw, I could understand.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Same for the miter saw, correction and saw stop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Same issue.
>>>>>>>> And umm a light on a drill that knows where the light needs to be
>>>>>>>> pointed as the bit goes into the work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWrcj6GcUlE
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Towards the tip of the bit, obviously. ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the beginning. but the tip moves away as it goes in. Apparently the
>>>>>> light stays pointed at where the bit went in.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why? It's not going anywhere.
>>>>
>>>> Well having the patent on the method/technology can lead to other uses.
>>>> A patent on the technology used is a" weird/it aint gonna happen way"
>>>> does not necessarily point at the tool that it could be used on. They
>>>> figured out a way to get something to point in a direction and track that.
>>>>
>>>> For instance, still considering a drill, if they can track where the
>>>> drill is, in relation to the surface, they could put in a laser in
>>>> instead of a regular light to track how far the bit has entered below
>>>> the surface. Like setting a depth stop in a DP. The drill could stop
>>>> spinning once the bit had gone a certain depth. Just a thought.
>>>
>>> Sounds like a damn expensive stop collar or rod.
>> Well in tight spots..... One can use a template with a router or get
>> an Origin. ;~)
>>
>> Not for everybody.
>>
>> FWIW Technatool has an electronic direct drive drill press. It can be
>> programed to turn off when a certain depth has been reached. Along side
>> the manual stop set up fount on most all drill presses.
>>
>> https://www.teknatool.com/products/drill-presses/nova-voyager-dvr-drill-press/
>>
>> Not for everybody.
>
> Not something you see very often on a page for a "basic" shop tool:
>
> "Click here for Firmware Upgrade"
>
> Eventually it will be the norm, considering 3D printers, CNC routers, etc. Smart
> technology in a drill press. Who woulda thunk it? ;-)
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iwsnkvfhI4
>

Can't waif for the day that you take a dull tool, toss it in a box for 5
minutes, and it comes out sharp and true!

On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 11:49:17 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 3/21/2022 3:51 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 3:05:53 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> >> On 3/21/2022 1:17 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:47:25 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 3/19/2022 10:46 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 19:41:45 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 3/19/2022 1:18 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:37:04 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Apparently Festool has been busy designing with their SawStop
> >>>>>>>> technology, and their Shaper Origin technology.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Seems they have patents on a trackless track saw, that corrects for you.
> >>>>>>>> Hummmm.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm not buying that one. How does the blade change course in the
> >>>>>>> workpiece? I guess it could "see" the line before it enters the piece
> >>>>>>> then pull the arm in that direction, X-Y and direction. Why?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> A jigsaw, I could understand.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Same for the miter saw, correction and saw stop.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Same issue.
> >>>>>>>> And umm a light on a drill that knows where the light needs to be
> >>>>>>>> pointed as the bit goes into the work.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWrcj6GcUlE
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Towards the tip of the bit, obviously. ;-)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In the beginning. but the tip moves away as it goes in. Apparently the
> >>>>>> light stays pointed at where the bit went in.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Why? It's not going anywhere.
> >>>>
> >>>> Well having the patent on the method/technology can lead to other uses.
> >>>> A patent on the technology used is a" weird/it aint gonna happen way"
> >>>> does not necessarily point at the tool that it could be used on. They
> >>>> figured out a way to get something to point in a direction and track that.
> >>>>
> >>>> For instance, still considering a drill, if they can track where the
> >>>> drill is, in relation to the surface, they could put in a laser in
> >>>> instead of a regular light to track how far the bit has entered below
> >>>> the surface. Like setting a depth stop in a DP. The drill could stop
> >>>> spinning once the bit had gone a certain depth. Just a thought.
> >>>
> >>> Sounds like a damn expensive stop collar or rod.
> >> Well in tight spots..... One can use a template with a router or get
> >> an Origin. ;~)
> >>
> >> Not for everybody.
> >>
> >> FWIW Technatool has an electronic direct drive drill press. It can be
> >> programed to turn off when a certain depth has been reached. Along side
> >> the manual stop set up fount on most all drill presses.
> >>
> >> https://www.teknatool.com/products/drill-presses/nova-voyager-dvr-drill-press/
> >>
> >> Not for everybody.
> >
> > Not something you see very often on a page for a "basic" shop tool:
> >
> > "Click here for Firmware Upgrade"
> >
> > Eventually it will be the norm, considering 3D printers, CNC routers, etc. Smart
> > technology in a drill press. Who woulda thunk it? ;-)
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iwsnkvfhI4
> >
> Can't waif for the day that you take a dull tool, toss it in a box for 5
> minutes, and it comes out sharp and true!

This closest I've seen is the kitchen knife block that my daughter has.

Apparently/supposedly each time you remove and replace a knife into it's
assigned slot, it gets a quick tune-up. There is definitely something in the
slots because you can hear the metallic "sharpening sound" as you slide it in.

No electronics, no firmware, just "mechanical".

Am I gullible enough to believe that all slots are set at the perfect angle, etc.?
Not really, but she's happy with it and I'm not going to take that away from her.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 09:17:50 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

>On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 11:49:17 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/21/2022 3:51 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> > On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 3:05:53 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> >> On 3/21/2022 1:17 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> >>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:47:25 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 3/19/2022 10:46 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> >>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 19:41:45 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 3/19/2022 1:18 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:37:04 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Apparently Festool has been busy designing with their SawStop
>> >>>>>>>> technology, and their Shaper Origin technology.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Seems they have patents on a trackless track saw, that corrects for you.
>> >>>>>>>> Hummmm.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I'm not buying that one. How does the blade change course in the
>> >>>>>>> workpiece? I guess it could "see" the line before it enters the piece
>> >>>>>>> then pull the arm in that direction, X-Y and direction. Why?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> A jigsaw, I could understand.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Same for the miter saw, correction and saw stop.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Same issue.
>> >>>>>>>> And umm a light on a drill that knows where the light needs to be
>> >>>>>>>> pointed as the bit goes into the work.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWrcj6GcUlE
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Towards the tip of the bit, obviously. ;-)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> In the beginning. but the tip moves away as it goes in. Apparently the
>> >>>>>> light stays pointed at where the bit went in.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Why? It's not going anywhere.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Well having the patent on the method/technology can lead to other uses.
>> >>>> A patent on the technology used is a" weird/it aint gonna happen way"
>> >>>> does not necessarily point at the tool that it could be used on. They
>> >>>> figured out a way to get something to point in a direction and track that.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> For instance, still considering a drill, if they can track where the
>> >>>> drill is, in relation to the surface, they could put in a laser in
>> >>>> instead of a regular light to track how far the bit has entered below
>> >>>> the surface. Like setting a depth stop in a DP. The drill could stop
>> >>>> spinning once the bit had gone a certain depth. Just a thought.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sounds like a damn expensive stop collar or rod.
>> >> Well in tight spots..... One can use a template with a router or get
>> >> an Origin. ;~)
>> >>
>> >> Not for everybody.
>> >>
>> >> FWIW Technatool has an electronic direct drive drill press. It can be
>> >> programed to turn off when a certain depth has been reached. Along side
>> >> the manual stop set up fount on most all drill presses.
>> >>
>> >> https://www.teknatool.com/products/drill-presses/nova-voyager-dvr-drill-press/
>> >>
>> >> Not for everybody.
>> >
>> > Not something you see very often on a page for a "basic" shop tool:
>> >
>> > "Click here for Firmware Upgrade"
>> >
>> > Eventually it will be the norm, considering 3D printers, CNC routers, etc. Smart
>> > technology in a drill press. Who woulda thunk it? ;-)
>> >
>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iwsnkvfhI4
>> >
>> Can't waif for the day that you take a dull tool, toss it in a box for 5
>> minutes, and it comes out sharp and true!
>
>This closest I've seen is the kitchen knife block that my daughter has.
>
>Apparently/supposedly each time you remove and replace a knife into it's
>assigned slot, it gets a quick tune-up. There is definitely something in the
>slots because you can hear the metallic "sharpening sound" as you slide it in.
>
>No electronics, no firmware, just "mechanical".
>
>Am I gullible enough to believe that all slots are set at the perfect angle, etc.?
>Not really, but she's happy with it and I'm not going to take that away from her.

Is there a perfect angle for a kitchen knife? How does it handle
serrated knives. Those are the problems. It's hard to find anyone to
sharpen good knives.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 14:14:33 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote:

>>On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 09:17:50 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

>>Am I gullible enough to believe that all slots are set at the perfect angle, etc.?
>>Not really, but she's happy with it and I'm not going to take that away from her.
>
>Is there a perfect angle for a kitchen knife? How does it handle
>serrated knives. Those are the problems. It's hard to find anyone to
>sharpen good knives.

Put two quarters down, that can get you the "right" angle for kitchen
knives. I sharpen the metal knives once every two years on a water
stone with fine and ultrafine sides.

On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 2:14:38 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 09:17:50 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 11:49:17 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> >> On 3/21/2022 3:51 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> > On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 3:05:53 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> >> >> On 3/21/2022 1:17 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >> >>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:47:25 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> On 3/19/2022 10:46 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >> >>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 19:41:45 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> >> >>>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>> On 3/19/2022 1:18 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >> >>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:37:04 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> >> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> Apparently Festool has been busy designing with their SawStop
> >> >>>>>>>> technology, and their Shaper Origin technology.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> Seems they have patents on a trackless track saw, that corrects for you.
> >> >>>>>>>> Hummmm.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> I'm not buying that one. How does the blade change course in the
> >> >>>>>>> workpiece? I guess it could "see" the line before it enters the piece
> >> >>>>>>> then pull the arm in that direction, X-Y and direction. Why?
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> A jigsaw, I could understand.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> Same for the miter saw, correction and saw stop.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Same issue.
> >> >>>>>>>> And umm a light on a drill that knows where the light needs to be
> >> >>>>>>>> pointed as the bit goes into the work.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWrcj6GcUlE
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Towards the tip of the bit, obviously. ;-)
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> In the beginning. but the tip moves away as it goes in. Apparently the
> >> >>>>>> light stays pointed at where the bit went in.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Why? It's not going anywhere.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Well having the patent on the method/technology can lead to other uses.
> >> >>>> A patent on the technology used is a" weird/it aint gonna happen way"
> >> >>>> does not necessarily point at the tool that it could be used on. They
> >> >>>> figured out a way to get something to point in a direction and track that.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> For instance, still considering a drill, if they can track where the
> >> >>>> drill is, in relation to the surface, they could put in a laser in
> >> >>>> instead of a regular light to track how far the bit has entered below
> >> >>>> the surface. Like setting a depth stop in a DP. The drill could stop
> >> >>>> spinning once the bit had gone a certain depth. Just a thought.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sounds like a damn expensive stop collar or rod.
> >> >> Well in tight spots..... One can use a template with a router or get
> >> >> an Origin. ;~)
> >> >>
> >> >> Not for everybody.
> >> >>
> >> >> FWIW Technatool has an electronic direct drive drill press. It can be
> >> >> programed to turn off when a certain depth has been reached. Along side
> >> >> the manual stop set up fount on most all drill presses.
> >> >>
> >> >> https://www.teknatool.com/products/drill-presses/nova-voyager-dvr-drill-press/
> >> >>
> >> >> Not for everybody.
> >> >
> >> > Not something you see very often on a page for a "basic" shop tool:
> >> >
> >> > "Click here for Firmware Upgrade"
> >> >
> >> > Eventually it will be the norm, considering 3D printers, CNC routers, etc. Smart
> >> > technology in a drill press. Who woulda thunk it? ;-)
> >> >
> >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iwsnkvfhI4
> >> >
> >> Can't waif for the day that you take a dull tool, toss it in a box for 5
> >> minutes, and it comes out sharp and true!
> >
> >This closest I've seen is the kitchen knife block that my daughter has.
> >
> >Apparently/supposedly each time you remove and replace a knife into it's
> >assigned slot, it gets a quick tune-up. There is definitely something in the
> >slots because you can hear the metallic "sharpening sound" as you slide it in.
> >
> >No electronics, no firmware, just "mechanical".
> >
> >Am I gullible enough to believe that all slots are set at the perfect angle, etc.?
> >Not really, but she's happy with it and I'm not going to take that away from her.
> Is there a perfect angle for a kitchen knife? How does it handle
> serrated knives. Those are the problems. It's hard to find anyone to
> sharpen good knives.
15° - 20° is the "standard" for chef's knifes, although 15° is at the very low end
of durability.

Japanese chef's tend to sharpen their knifes at 17° but most of what they are
cutting is fairly soft. 20° is used for most western knifes. "Tomato sharp" but
durable enough to last a decent amount of time.

I use the Work Sharp WSKTS which provides a 20° guide bracket. I also use a
steel before each use.

The WSKTS has a guide for serrated knifes, but my only serrated knife is our bread
knife which never seems to get dull. It is *only* used for bread.

On 3/22/2022 11:17 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 11:49:17 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/21/2022 3:51 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 3:05:53 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 3/21/2022 1:17 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:47:25 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/19/2022 10:46 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 19:41:45 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/19/2022 1:18 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:37:04 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Apparently Festool has been busy designing with their SawStop
>>>>>>>>>> technology, and their Shaper Origin technology.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Seems they have patents on a trackless track saw, that corrects for you.
>>>>>>>>>> Hummmm.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not buying that one. How does the blade change course in the
>>>>>>>>> workpiece? I guess it could "see" the line before it enters the piece
>>>>>>>>> then pull the arm in that direction, X-Y and direction. Why?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A jigsaw, I could understand.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Same for the miter saw, correction and saw stop.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Same issue.
>>>>>>>>>> And umm a light on a drill that knows where the light needs to be
>>>>>>>>>> pointed as the bit goes into the work.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWrcj6GcUlE
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Towards the tip of the bit, obviously. ;-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the beginning. but the tip moves away as it goes in. Apparently the
>>>>>>>> light stays pointed at where the bit went in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why? It's not going anywhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well having the patent on the method/technology can lead to other uses.
>>>>>> A patent on the technology used is a" weird/it aint gonna happen way"
>>>>>> does not necessarily point at the tool that it could be used on. They
>>>>>> figured out a way to get something to point in a direction and track that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For instance, still considering a drill, if they can track where the
>>>>>> drill is, in relation to the surface, they could put in a laser in
>>>>>> instead of a regular light to track how far the bit has entered below
>>>>>> the surface. Like setting a depth stop in a DP. The drill could stop
>>>>>> spinning once the bit had gone a certain depth. Just a thought.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sounds like a damn expensive stop collar or rod.
>>>> Well in tight spots..... One can use a template with a router or get
>>>> an Origin. ;~)
>>>>
>>>> Not for everybody.
>>>>
>>>> FWIW Technatool has an electronic direct drive drill press. It can be
>>>> programed to turn off when a certain depth has been reached. Along side
>>>> the manual stop set up fount on most all drill presses.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.teknatool.com/products/drill-presses/nova-voyager-dvr-drill-press/
>>>>
>>>> Not for everybody.
>>>
>>> Not something you see very often on a page for a "basic" shop tool:
>>>
>>> "Click here for Firmware Upgrade"
>>>
>>> Eventually it will be the norm, considering 3D printers, CNC routers, etc. Smart
>>> technology in a drill press. Who woulda thunk it? ;-)
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iwsnkvfhI4
>>>
>> Can't waif for the day that you take a dull tool, toss it in a box for 5
>> minutes, and it comes out sharp and true!
>
> This closest I've seen is the kitchen knife block that my daughter has.
>
> Apparently/supposedly each time you remove and replace a knife into it's
> assigned slot, it gets a quick tune-up. There is definitely something in the
> slots because you can hear the metallic "sharpening sound" as you slide it in.
>
> No electronics, no firmware, just "mechanical".
>
> Am I gullible enough to believe that all slots are set at the perfect angle, etc.?
> Not really, but she's happy with it and I'm not going to take that away from her.

I finally got a Ken Onion Work Sharp sharpener. It WORKS. Almost fool
proof and will make a dull knife sharp in a matter if minutes. Or scary
sharp.

On 3/22/2022 1:14 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 09:17:50 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 11:49:17 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>>> On 3/21/2022 3:51 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 3:05:53 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 3/21/2022 1:17 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:47:25 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/19/2022 10:46 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 19:41:45 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/19/2022 1:18 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:37:04 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Apparently Festool has been busy designing with their SawStop
>>>>>>>>>>> technology, and their Shaper Origin technology.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Seems they have patents on a trackless track saw, that corrects for you.
>>>>>>>>>>> Hummmm.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm not buying that one. How does the blade change course in the
>>>>>>>>>> workpiece? I guess it could "see" the line before it enters the piece
>>>>>>>>>> then pull the arm in that direction, X-Y and direction. Why?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A jigsaw, I could understand.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Same for the miter saw, correction and saw stop.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Same issue.
>>>>>>>>>>> And umm a light on a drill that knows where the light needs to be
>>>>>>>>>>> pointed as the bit goes into the work.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWrcj6GcUlE
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Towards the tip of the bit, obviously. ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In the beginning. but the tip moves away as it goes in. Apparently the
>>>>>>>>> light stays pointed at where the bit went in.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why? It's not going anywhere.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well having the patent on the method/technology can lead to other uses.
>>>>>>> A patent on the technology used is a" weird/it aint gonna happen way"
>>>>>>> does not necessarily point at the tool that it could be used on. They
>>>>>>> figured out a way to get something to point in a direction and track that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For instance, still considering a drill, if they can track where the
>>>>>>> drill is, in relation to the surface, they could put in a laser in
>>>>>>> instead of a regular light to track how far the bit has entered below
>>>>>>> the surface. Like setting a depth stop in a DP. The drill could stop
>>>>>>> spinning once the bit had gone a certain depth. Just a thought.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sounds like a damn expensive stop collar or rod.
>>>>> Well in tight spots..... One can use a template with a router or get
>>>>> an Origin. ;~)
>>>>>
>>>>> Not for everybody.
>>>>>
>>>>> FWIW Technatool has an electronic direct drive drill press. It can be
>>>>> programed to turn off when a certain depth has been reached. Along side
>>>>> the manual stop set up fount on most all drill presses.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.teknatool.com/products/drill-presses/nova-voyager-dvr-drill-press/
>>>>>
>>>>> Not for everybody.
>>>>
>>>> Not something you see very often on a page for a "basic" shop tool:
>>>>
>>>> "Click here for Firmware Upgrade"
>>>>
>>>> Eventually it will be the norm, considering 3D printers, CNC routers, etc. Smart
>>>> technology in a drill press. Who woulda thunk it? ;-)
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iwsnkvfhI4
>>>>
>>> Can't waif for the day that you take a dull tool, toss it in a box for 5
>>> minutes, and it comes out sharp and true!
>>
>> This closest I've seen is the kitchen knife block that my daughter has.
>>
>> Apparently/supposedly each time you remove and replace a knife into it's
>> assigned slot, it gets a quick tune-up. There is definitely something in the
>> slots because you can hear the metallic "sharpening sound" as you slide it in.
>>
>> No electronics, no firmware, just "mechanical".
>>
>> Am I gullible enough to believe that all slots are set at the perfect angle, etc.?
>> Not really, but she's happy with it and I'm not going to take that away from her.
>
> Is there a perfect angle for a kitchen knife? How does it handle
> serrated knives. Those are the problems. It's hard to find anyone to
> sharpen good knives.

IIRC 20~25 degrees. One is for kitchen knives and the other for a
pocket knife. I keep having to check my chart when sharpening.

So the WorkSharp system works very well for my son and his wife. I have
the upper end Ken Onion Work Sharp system that does more and I am
finally happy and satisfied after many styles of knife sharpeners. If
you remember Nailshooter from here he is a knife collector and has one
for his regular knives IIRC. He saw mine, was impressed, and bought one
to charge clients to sharpen their knives.

On Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 11:39:35 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 3/22/2022 11:17 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 11:49:17 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> >> On 3/21/2022 3:51 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 3:05:53 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> >>>> On 3/21/2022 1:17 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >>>>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:47:25 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 3/19/2022 10:46 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 19:41:45 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 3/19/2022 1:18 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:37:04 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Apparently Festool has been busy designing with their SawStop
> >>>>>>>>>> technology, and their Shaper Origin technology.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Seems they have patents on a trackless track saw, that corrects for you.
> >>>>>>>>>> Hummmm.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I'm not buying that one. How does the blade change course in the
> >>>>>>>>> workpiece? I guess it could "see" the line before it enters the piece
> >>>>>>>>> then pull the arm in that direction, X-Y and direction. Why?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> A jigsaw, I could understand.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Same for the miter saw, correction and saw stop.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Same issue.
> >>>>>>>>>> And umm a light on a drill that knows where the light needs to be
> >>>>>>>>>> pointed as the bit goes into the work.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWrcj6GcUlE
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Towards the tip of the bit, obviously. ;-)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> In the beginning. but the tip moves away as it goes in. Apparently the
> >>>>>>>> light stays pointed at where the bit went in.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Why? It's not going anywhere.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Well having the patent on the method/technology can lead to other uses.
> >>>>>> A patent on the technology used is a" weird/it aint gonna happen way"
> >>>>>> does not necessarily point at the tool that it could be used on. They
> >>>>>> figured out a way to get something to point in a direction and track that.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> For instance, still considering a drill, if they can track where the
> >>>>>> drill is, in relation to the surface, they could put in a laser in
> >>>>>> instead of a regular light to track how far the bit has entered below
> >>>>>> the surface. Like setting a depth stop in a DP. The drill could stop
> >>>>>> spinning once the bit had gone a certain depth. Just a thought.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sounds like a damn expensive stop collar or rod.
> >>>> Well in tight spots..... One can use a template with a router or get
> >>>> an Origin. ;~)
> >>>>
> >>>> Not for everybody.
> >>>>
> >>>> FWIW Technatool has an electronic direct drive drill press. It can be
> >>>> programed to turn off when a certain depth has been reached. Along side
> >>>> the manual stop set up fount on most all drill presses.
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.teknatool.com/products/drill-presses/nova-voyager-dvr-drill-press/
> >>>>
> >>>> Not for everybody.
> >>>
> >>> Not something you see very often on a page for a "basic" shop tool:
> >>>
> >>> "Click here for Firmware Upgrade"
> >>>
> >>> Eventually it will be the norm, considering 3D printers, CNC routers, etc. Smart
> >>> technology in a drill press. Who woulda thunk it? ;-)
> >>>
> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iwsnkvfhI4
> >>>
> >> Can't waif for the day that you take a dull tool, toss it in a box for 5
> >> minutes, and it comes out sharp and true!
> >
> > This closest I've seen is the kitchen knife block that my daughter has.
> >
> > Apparently/supposedly each time you remove and replace a knife into it's
> > assigned slot, it gets a quick tune-up. There is definitely something in the
> > slots because you can hear the metallic "sharpening sound" as you slide it in.
> >
> > No electronics, no firmware, just "mechanical".
> >
> > Am I gullible enough to believe that all slots are set at the perfect angle, etc.?
> > Not really, but she's happy with it and I'm not going to take that away from her.
> I finally got a Ken Onion Work Sharp sharpener. It WORKS. Almost fool
> proof and will make a dull knife sharp in a matter if minutes. Or scary
> sharp.

I use the Work Sharp WSKTS which provides 20°, 25° and 32.5° guide brackets.

Seems like the main difference between the WSKTS and WSKTS-KO is that the
KO version has a dial to set the angle, while mine has different slots for different
angles. More angle choices on the KO, but that's not something I need.

I assume the sharpening ability at a given angle is the same for both versions.

On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 10:45:34 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 3/22/2022 1:14 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 09:17:50 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 11:49:17 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 3/21/2022 3:51 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 3:05:53 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/21/2022 1:17 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:47:25 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/19/2022 10:46 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 19:41:45 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/19/2022 1:18 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:37:04 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Apparently Festool has been busy designing with their SawStop
>>>>>>>>>>>> technology, and their Shaper Origin technology.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Seems they have patents on a trackless track saw, that corrects for you.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hummmm.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not buying that one. How does the blade change course in the
>>>>>>>>>>> workpiece? I guess it could "see" the line before it enters the piece
>>>>>>>>>>> then pull the arm in that direction, X-Y and direction. Why?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A jigsaw, I could understand.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Same for the miter saw, correction and saw stop.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Same issue.
>>>>>>>>>>>> And umm a light on a drill that knows where the light needs to be
>>>>>>>>>>>> pointed as the bit goes into the work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWrcj6GcUlE
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Towards the tip of the bit, obviously. ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In the beginning. but the tip moves away as it goes in. Apparently the
>>>>>>>>>> light stays pointed at where the bit went in.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why? It's not going anywhere.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well having the patent on the method/technology can lead to other uses.
>>>>>>>> A patent on the technology used is a" weird/it aint gonna happen way"
>>>>>>>> does not necessarily point at the tool that it could be used on. They
>>>>>>>> figured out a way to get something to point in a direction and track that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For instance, still considering a drill, if they can track where the
>>>>>>>> drill is, in relation to the surface, they could put in a laser in
>>>>>>>> instead of a regular light to track how far the bit has entered below
>>>>>>>> the surface. Like setting a depth stop in a DP. The drill could stop
>>>>>>>> spinning once the bit had gone a certain depth. Just a thought.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sounds like a damn expensive stop collar or rod.
>>>>>> Well in tight spots..... One can use a template with a router or get
>>>>>> an Origin. ;~)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not for everybody.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FWIW Technatool has an electronic direct drive drill press. It can be
>>>>>> programed to turn off when a certain depth has been reached. Along side
>>>>>> the manual stop set up fount on most all drill presses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.teknatool.com/products/drill-presses/nova-voyager-dvr-drill-press/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not for everybody.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not something you see very often on a page for a "basic" shop tool:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Click here for Firmware Upgrade"
>>>>>
>>>>> Eventually it will be the norm, considering 3D printers, CNC routers, etc. Smart
>>>>> technology in a drill press. Who woulda thunk it? ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iwsnkvfhI4
>>>>>
>>>> Can't waif for the day that you take a dull tool, toss it in a box for 5
>>>> minutes, and it comes out sharp and true!
>>>
>>> This closest I've seen is the kitchen knife block that my daughter has.
>>>
>>> Apparently/supposedly each time you remove and replace a knife into it's
>>> assigned slot, it gets a quick tune-up. There is definitely something in the
>>> slots because you can hear the metallic "sharpening sound" as you slide it in.
>>>
>>> No electronics, no firmware, just "mechanical".
>>>
>>> Am I gullible enough to believe that all slots are set at the perfect angle, etc.?
>>> Not really, but she's happy with it and I'm not going to take that away from her.
>>
>> Is there a perfect angle for a kitchen knife? How does it handle
>> serrated knives. Those are the problems. It's hard to find anyone to
>> sharpen good knives.
>
>IIRC 20~25 degrees. One is for kitchen knives and the other for a
>pocket knife. I keep having to check my chart when sharpening.
>
>So the WorkSharp system works very well for my son and his wife. I have
>the upper end Ken Onion Work Sharp system that does more and I am
>finally happy and satisfied after many styles of knife sharpeners. If
>you remember Nailshooter from here he is a knife collector and has one
>for his regular knives IIRC. He saw mine, was impressed, and bought one
>to charge clients to sharpen their knives.

I'll have to look into it further. SWMBO was spending big bucks to
have her knives sent out for sharpening by one of the high-price
stores (initials WS). Who they sent them to, IDK, but they'll no
longer take serrated knives. She has expensive Japanese knives (make
Lie Nielson chisels look cheap) so it's worth keeping them up.

On 3/23/2022 9:26 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 10:45:34 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 3/22/2022 1:14 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 09:17:50 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>>> <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 11:49:17 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 3/21/2022 3:51 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>>> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 3:05:53 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/21/2022 1:17 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:47:25 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/19/2022 10:46 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 19:41:45 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/19/2022 1:18 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:37:04 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apparently Festool has been busy designing with their SawStop
>>>>>>>>>>>>> technology, and their Shaper Origin technology.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seems they have patents on a trackless track saw, that corrects for you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hummmm.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not buying that one. How does the blade change course in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> workpiece? I guess it could "see" the line before it enters the piece
>>>>>>>>>>>> then pull the arm in that direction, X-Y and direction. Why?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> A jigsaw, I could understand.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Same for the miter saw, correction and saw stop.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Same issue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And umm a light on a drill that knows where the light needs to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pointed as the bit goes into the work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWrcj6GcUlE
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Towards the tip of the bit, obviously. ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In the beginning. but the tip moves away as it goes in. Apparently the
>>>>>>>>>>> light stays pointed at where the bit went in.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why? It's not going anywhere.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well having the patent on the method/technology can lead to other uses.
>>>>>>>>> A patent on the technology used is a" weird/it aint gonna happen way"
>>>>>>>>> does not necessarily point at the tool that it could be used on. They
>>>>>>>>> figured out a way to get something to point in a direction and track that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For instance, still considering a drill, if they can track where the
>>>>>>>>> drill is, in relation to the surface, they could put in a laser in
>>>>>>>>> instead of a regular light to track how far the bit has entered below
>>>>>>>>> the surface. Like setting a depth stop in a DP. The drill could stop
>>>>>>>>> spinning once the bit had gone a certain depth. Just a thought.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sounds like a damn expensive stop collar or rod.
>>>>>>> Well in tight spots..... One can use a template with a router or get
>>>>>>> an Origin. ;~)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not for everybody.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FWIW Technatool has an electronic direct drive drill press. It can be
>>>>>>> programed to turn off when a certain depth has been reached. Along side
>>>>>>> the manual stop set up fount on most all drill presses.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.teknatool.com/products/drill-presses/nova-voyager-dvr-drill-press/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not for everybody.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not something you see very often on a page for a "basic" shop tool:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Click here for Firmware Upgrade"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eventually it will be the norm, considering 3D printers, CNC routers, etc. Smart
>>>>>> technology in a drill press. Who woulda thunk it? ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iwsnkvfhI4
>>>>>>
>>>>> Can't waif for the day that you take a dull tool, toss it in a box for 5
>>>>> minutes, and it comes out sharp and true!
>>>>
>>>> This closest I've seen is the kitchen knife block that my daughter has.
>>>>
>>>> Apparently/supposedly each time you remove and replace a knife into it's
>>>> assigned slot, it gets a quick tune-up. There is definitely something in the
>>>> slots because you can hear the metallic "sharpening sound" as you slide it in.
>>>>
>>>> No electronics, no firmware, just "mechanical".
>>>>
>>>> Am I gullible enough to believe that all slots are set at the perfect angle, etc.?
>>>> Not really, but she's happy with it and I'm not going to take that away from her.
>>>
>>> Is there a perfect angle for a kitchen knife? How does it handle
>>> serrated knives. Those are the problems. It's hard to find anyone to
>>> sharpen good knives.
>>
>> IIRC 20~25 degrees. One is for kitchen knives and the other for a
>> pocket knife. I keep having to check my chart when sharpening.
>>
>> So the WorkSharp system works very well for my son and his wife. I have
>> the upper end Ken Onion Work Sharp system that does more and I am
>> finally happy and satisfied after many styles of knife sharpeners. If
>> you remember Nailshooter from here he is a knife collector and has one
>> for his regular knives IIRC. He saw mine, was impressed, and bought one
>> to charge clients to sharpen their knives.
>
> I'll have to look into it further. SWMBO was spending big bucks to
> have her knives sent out for sharpening by one of the high-price
> stores (initials WS). Who they sent them to, IDK, but they'll no
> longer take serrated knives. She has expensive Japanese knives (make
> Lie Nielson chisels look cheap) so it's worth keeping them up.

IIRC serrated knives are only sharpened from the back side. Do check
into that. But I have to say, we have a very inexpensive set of
Tromentina serrated steak knives that we bought in Jan 2006. We throw
them in the dishwasher and they have never been resharpened.
These seem to cut as well as out 3 year old seldom used Japanese steak
knives.
By design the serrated knives stay sharp for a very long time.

On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 09:59:07 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 3/23/2022 9:26 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 10:45:34 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/22/2022 1:14 PM, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 09:17:50 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>>>> <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 11:49:17 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/21/2022 3:51 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>>>> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 3:05:53 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/21/2022 1:17 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:47:25 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/19/2022 10:46 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 19:41:45 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/19/2022 1:18 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:37:04 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apparently Festool has been busy designing with their SawStop
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> technology, and their Shaper Origin technology.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seems they have patents on a trackless track saw, that corrects for you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hummmm.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not buying that one. How does the blade change course in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> workpiece? I guess it could "see" the line before it enters the piece
>>>>>>>>>>>>> then pull the arm in that direction, X-Y and direction. Why?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> A jigsaw, I could understand.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Same for the miter saw, correction and saw stop.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Same issue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And umm a light on a drill that knows where the light needs to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pointed as the bit goes into the work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWrcj6GcUlE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Towards the tip of the bit, obviously. ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In the beginning. but the tip moves away as it goes in. Apparently the
>>>>>>>>>>>> light stays pointed at where the bit went in.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why? It's not going anywhere.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well having the patent on the method/technology can lead to other uses.
>>>>>>>>>> A patent on the technology used is a" weird/it aint gonna happen way"
>>>>>>>>>> does not necessarily point at the tool that it could be used on. They
>>>>>>>>>> figured out a way to get something to point in a direction and track that.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For instance, still considering a drill, if they can track where the
>>>>>>>>>> drill is, in relation to the surface, they could put in a laser in
>>>>>>>>>> instead of a regular light to track how far the bit has entered below
>>>>>>>>>> the surface. Like setting a depth stop in a DP. The drill could stop
>>>>>>>>>> spinning once the bit had gone a certain depth. Just a thought.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sounds like a damn expensive stop collar or rod.
>>>>>>>> Well in tight spots..... One can use a template with a router or get
>>>>>>>> an Origin. ;~)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not for everybody.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> FWIW Technatool has an electronic direct drive drill press. It can be
>>>>>>>> programed to turn off when a certain depth has been reached. Along side
>>>>>>>> the manual stop set up fount on most all drill presses.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.teknatool.com/products/drill-presses/nova-voyager-dvr-drill-press/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not for everybody.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not something you see very often on a page for a "basic" shop tool:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Click here for Firmware Upgrade"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eventually it will be the norm, considering 3D printers, CNC routers, etc. Smart
>>>>>>> technology in a drill press. Who woulda thunk it? ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iwsnkvfhI4
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can't waif for the day that you take a dull tool, toss it in a box for 5
>>>>>> minutes, and it comes out sharp and true!
>>>>>
>>>>> This closest I've seen is the kitchen knife block that my daughter has.
>>>>>
>>>>> Apparently/supposedly each time you remove and replace a knife into it's
>>>>> assigned slot, it gets a quick tune-up. There is definitely something in the
>>>>> slots because you can hear the metallic "sharpening sound" as you slide it in.
>>>>>
>>>>> No electronics, no firmware, just "mechanical".
>>>>>
>>>>> Am I gullible enough to believe that all slots are set at the perfect angle, etc.?
>>>>> Not really, but she's happy with it and I'm not going to take that away from her.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a perfect angle for a kitchen knife? How does it handle
>>>> serrated knives. Those are the problems. It's hard to find anyone to
>>>> sharpen good knives.
>>>
>>> IIRC 20~25 degrees. One is for kitchen knives and the other for a
>>> pocket knife. I keep having to check my chart when sharpening.
>>>
>>> So the WorkSharp system works very well for my son and his wife. I have
>>> the upper end Ken Onion Work Sharp system that does more and I am
>>> finally happy and satisfied after many styles of knife sharpeners. If
>>> you remember Nailshooter from here he is a knife collector and has one
>>> for his regular knives IIRC. He saw mine, was impressed, and bought one
>>> to charge clients to sharpen their knives.
>>
>> I'll have to look into it further. SWMBO was spending big bucks to
>> have her knives sent out for sharpening by one of the high-price
>> stores (initials WS). Who they sent them to, IDK, but they'll no
>> longer take serrated knives. She has expensive Japanese knives (make
>> Lie Nielson chisels look cheap) so it's worth keeping them up.
>
>
>
>IIRC serrated knives are only sharpened from the back side. Do check
>into that. But I have to say, we have a very inexpensive set of
>Tromentina serrated steak knives that we bought in Jan 2006. We throw
>them in the dishwasher and they have never been resharpened.
>These seem to cut as well as out 3 year old seldom used Japanese steak
>knives.
>By design the serrated knives stay sharp for a very long time.

I looked at the knives. Most are normal with the bevel on the
serrated side. I watched the WS demos and it's apparent from looking
at the knives and the instructions that the back of the knife just has
to be flattened. There isn't much bevel so it looks like it would
take a light touch.

DerbyDad03 <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote in
news:931a4de0-4943-48b4-9bdc-207625006565n@googlegroups.com:

>
> 15° - 20° is the "standard" for chef's knifes, although 15° is at
> the very low end of durability.
>
> Japanese chef's tend to sharpen their knifes at 17° but most of what
> they are cutting is fairly soft. 20° is used for most western knifes.
> "Tomato sharp" but durable enough to last a decent amount of time.
>
> I use the Work Sharp WSKTS which provides a 20° guide bracket. I also
> use a steel before each use.
>
> The WSKTS has a guide for serrated knifes, but my only serrated knife
> is our bread knife which never seems to get dull. It is *only* used
> for bread.

My experiences with steels have been that they don't do anything to help
the edge. Maybe I'm using the steel wrong?

Puckdropper

On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 21:16:06 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>DerbyDad03 <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote in
>news:931a4de0-4943-48b4-9bdc-207625006565n@googlegroups.com:
>
>>
>> 15° - 20° is the "standard" for chef's knifes, although 15° is at
>> the very low end of durability.
>>
>> Japanese chef's tend to sharpen their knifes at 17° but most of what
>> they are cutting is fairly soft. 20° is used for most western knifes.
>> "Tomato sharp" but durable enough to last a decent amount of time.
>>
>> I use the Work Sharp WSKTS which provides a 20° guide bracket. I also
>> use a steel before each use.
>>
>> The WSKTS has a guide for serrated knifes, but my only serrated knife
>> is our bread knife which never seems to get dull. It is *only* used
>> for bread.
>
>My experiences with steels have been that they don't do anything to help
>the edge. Maybe I'm using the steel wrong?
>
>Puckdropper

The steel is to straighten the edge of the knife, two passes changing
side to side is all it takes. Problem being is you can not see whether
the knife needs it or not, unless you have a microscope.

On Thursday, March 24, 2022 at 5:16:13 PM UTC-4, Puckdropper wrote:
> DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> wrote in
> news:931a4de0-4943-48b4...@googlegroups.com:
> >
> > 15° - 20° is the "standard" for chef's knifes, although 15° is at
> > the very low end of durability.
> >
> > Japanese chef's tend to sharpen their knifes at 17° but most of what
> > they are cutting is fairly soft. 20° is used for most western knifes.
> > "Tomato sharp" but durable enough to last a decent amount of time.
> >
> > I use the Work Sharp WSKTS which provides a 20° guide bracket. I also
> > use a steel before each use.
> >
> > The WSKTS has a guide for serrated knifes, but my only serrated knife
> > is our bread knife which never seems to get dull. It is *only* used
> > for bread.
> My experiences with steels have been that they don't do anything to help
> the edge. Maybe I'm using the steel wrong?
>
> Puckdropper

What Markem618 said.

I once saw a demo where the guy use a piece of folded tin foil to represent the blade.
The edge was all wavy, acting as a exaggeration of the very thin edge of the knife blade.
He pinched his fingers together and ran them along the tin foil, straightening the edge
out.

That's what a steel does. It doesn't sharpen, just straightens.

On Thursday, March 24, 2022 at 5:23:52 PM UTC-4, Markem618 wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 21:16:06 GMT, Puckdropper <puckd...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> wrote in
> >news:931a4de0-4943-48b4...@googlegroups.com:
> >
> >>
> >> 15° - 20° is the "standard" for chef's knifes, although 15° is at
> >> the very low end of durability.
> >>
> >> Japanese chef's tend to sharpen their knifes at 17° but most of what
> >> they are cutting is fairly soft. 20° is used for most western knifes.
> >> "Tomato sharp" but durable enough to last a decent amount of time.
> >>
> >> I use the Work Sharp WSKTS which provides a 20° guide bracket. I also
> >> use a steel before each use.
> >>
> >> The WSKTS has a guide for serrated knifes, but my only serrated knife
> >> is our bread knife which never seems to get dull. It is *only* used
> >> for bread.
> >
> >My experiences with steels have been that they don't do anything to help
> >the edge. Maybe I'm using the steel wrong?
> >
> >Puckdropper
> The steel is to straighten the edge of the knife, two passes changing
> side to side is all it takes. Problem being is you can not see whether
> the knife needs it or not, unless you have a microscope.

True, but it doesn't hurt anything to use the steel, so I don't see that as a
"problem". Like you said, a couple of quick passes and you're done.

If you always assume that the blade is wavy, you'll always feel that you've
done some useful work. ;-)

On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 15:35:22 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:

>On Thursday, March 24, 2022 at 5:23:52 PM UTC-4, Markem618 wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 21:16:06 GMT, Puckdropper <puckd...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> >DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> wrote in
>> >news:931a4de0-4943-48b4...@googlegroups.com:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> 15° - 20° is the "standard" for chef's knifes, although 15° is at
>> >> the very low end of durability.
>> >>
>> >> Japanese chef's tend to sharpen their knifes at 17° but most of what
>> >> they are cutting is fairly soft. 20° is used for most western knifes.
>> >> "Tomato sharp" but durable enough to last a decent amount of time.
>> >>
>> >> I use the Work Sharp WSKTS which provides a 20° guide bracket. I also
>> >> use a steel before each use.
>> >>
>> >> The WSKTS has a guide for serrated knifes, but my only serrated knife
>> >> is our bread knife which never seems to get dull. It is *only* used
>> >> for bread.
>> >
>> >My experiences with steels have been that they don't do anything to help
>> >the edge. Maybe I'm using the steel wrong?
>> >
>> >Puckdropper
>> The steel is to straighten the edge of the knife, two passes changing
>> side to side is all it takes. Problem being is you can not see whether
>> the knife needs it or not, unless you have a microscope.
>
>True, but it doesn't hurt anything to use the steel, so I don't see that as a
>"problem". Like you said, a couple of quick passes and you're done.

I thought the steel was to knock the burr off the edge.

>If you always assume that the blade is wavy, you'll always feel that you've
>done some useful work. ;-)

Or didn't do enough. ;-)

On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 21:16:06 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>DerbyDad03 <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote in
>news:931a4de0-4943-48b4-9bdc-207625006565n@googlegroups.com:
>
>>
>> 15° - 20° is the "standard" for chef's knifes, although 15° is at
>> the very low end of durability.
>>
>> Japanese chef's tend to sharpen their knifes at 17° but most of what
>> they are cutting is fairly soft. 20° is used for most western knifes.
>> "Tomato sharp" but durable enough to last a decent amount of time.
>>
>> I use the Work Sharp WSKTS which provides a 20° guide bracket. I also
>> use a steel before each use.
>>
>> The WSKTS has a guide for serrated knifes, but my only serrated knife
>> is our bread knife which never seems to get dull. It is *only* used
>> for bread.
>
>My experiences with steels have been that they don't do anything to help
>the edge. Maybe I'm using the steel wrong?

It depends on the knife. For carbon steel they perform a burnishing
function that can maintain edge sharpness. For stainless steels not
so much.

I have a diamond steel which does maintain an edge on stainless. There
are ceramic steels which do the same but are a bit fragile.