Op dinsdag 30 januari 2018 om 02:24:41 UTC+1 schreef lindaza...@gmail.com:
> On Saturday, July 13, 2002 at 9:48:43 PM UTC-5, Brad Verity wrote:
> > CP gives the parents of John de Vere, 15th Earl of Oxford, as "s. and
> > h. of John de Vere, by Alice, da. and coh. of Walter Kilrington,
> > otherwise Colbroke."
> >
> > BURKE'S PEERAGE 106th Edition(1999) says John de Vere's wife was
> > "Alice, widow of Sir Walter Courtenay and daughter of Sir Walter
> > Colbroke or Kilrington."
> >
> > This is incorrect - the husbands are switched. Alice's first husband
> > was John de Vere, by whom she was mother of the 15th Earl of Oxford.
> > Her second husband was Sir Walter Courtenay, the fifth son of Sir
> > Philip Courtenay of Powderham and his wife Elizabeth Hungerford. The
> > order of Alice's marriages is proved by the PRO document:
> >
> > C 1/127/29 Walter Courteney, knight, and Alice, his wife, executrix
> > of John Vere. v. Hugh Lynke and Robert Knavysborowe, executors of
> > Nicholas Gosse, feoffee to uses.: The manors of Redwarry and Bodven,
> > and messuages and land in Tregennowe (Cornwall), and in Exeter.
> >
> > Sir Walter Courtenay is said to have died on 7 Nov. 1505/6, and to
> > have had two sons (William and Walter) and a daughter (Katherine) by
> > his wife Alice. Which would give the 15th Earl of Oxford three
> > Courtenay half-siblings.
> >
> > The background of Alice "Kilrington" remains obscure. Her father was
> > known by the surname of Colbroke, and seems to have been a Devonshire
> > gentleman, as the following PRO documents attest:
> >
> > C 1/26/352 Thomas, son of Nicholas Colbroke. v. Walter Colbroke:
> > Lands called Colbroke and Dorwyke.
> >
> > C 1/129/41 Walter Courteney, knight. v. John, lord Dynham, feoffee to
> > uses.: Refusal to complete a sale of messuages and land in Broad Clist
> > and Silverton made by Walter Colbroke and Thomas Raynold.: Devon.
> >
> > I could find nothing to confirm BURKE'S PEERAGE statement that Walter
> > Colbroke was a knight. It's probable Walter married a Kilrington
> > heiress, as there's a final PRO document:
> >
> > C 1/107/26 Thomas Raynold v. Walter Quortney, knight, feoffee to
> > uses.: Messuages and land in Kylryngton, Monkeculme, Beare, and
> > Atford, late of Richard Kylryngton.: Devon.
> >
> > Whether Richard Kylryngton above was Alice's brother, uncle, or other
> > kinsman remains unknown.
> >
> > Yet Alice's two marriages are linked. The mother of her first husband
> > John de Vere was Joan Courtenay, widow of Sir Nicholas Carew, and
> > daughter of Sir Hugh Courtenay of Hacombe. So John de Vere was
> > kinsman to the Courtenay family of Powderham, of which her second
> > husband Sir Walter Courtenay was a member.
> >
> > If anyone has any further info on Alice or her father, I'd appreciate
> > it.
> >
> > Best regards, -------Brad Verity
> I would also appreciate information on Alice Kilrington and her parents. Lind Zabielski

parents
Sir Walter Colbrooke Kilrington and Joan Jane Treytheny

grandparents
Nicholas Colbrooke alias Kilrington and
Jane Colbrooke

On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 3:37:03 AM UTC-8, Erwin Gomis wrote:
> Op dinsdag 30 januari 2018 om 02:24:41 UTC+1 schreef lindaza...@gmail.com:
> > On Saturday, July 13, 2002 at 9:48:43 PM UTC-5, Brad Verity wrote:
> > > CP gives the parents of John de Vere, 15th Earl of Oxford, as "s. and
> > > h. of John de Vere, by Alice, da. and coh. of Walter Kilrington,
> > > otherwise Colbroke."
> > >
> > > BURKE'S PEERAGE 106th Edition(1999) says John de Vere's wife was
> > > "Alice, widow of Sir Walter Courtenay and daughter of Sir Walter
> > > Colbroke or Kilrington."
> > >
> > > This is incorrect - the husbands are switched. Alice's first husband
> > > was John de Vere, by whom she was mother of the 15th Earl of Oxford.
> > > Her second husband was Sir Walter Courtenay, the fifth son of Sir
> > > Philip Courtenay of Powderham and his wife Elizabeth Hungerford. The
> > > order of Alice's marriages is proved by the PRO document:
> > >
> > > C 1/127/29 Walter Courteney, knight, and Alice, his wife, executrix
> > > of John Vere. v. Hugh Lynke and Robert Knavysborowe, executors of
> > > Nicholas Gosse, feoffee to uses.: The manors of Redwarry and Bodven,
> > > and messuages and land in Tregennowe (Cornwall), and in Exeter.
> > >
> > > Sir Walter Courtenay is said to have died on 7 Nov. 1505/6, and to
> > > have had two sons (William and Walter) and a daughter (Katherine) by
> > > his wife Alice. Which would give the 15th Earl of Oxford three
> > > Courtenay half-siblings.
> > >
> > > The background of Alice "Kilrington" remains obscure. Her father was
> > > known by the surname of Colbroke, and seems to have been a Devonshire
> > > gentleman, as the following PRO documents attest:
> > >
> > > C 1/26/352 Thomas, son of Nicholas Colbroke. v. Walter Colbroke:
> > > Lands called Colbroke and Dorwyke.
> > >
> > > C 1/129/41 Walter Courteney, knight. v. John, lord Dynham, feoffee to
> > > uses.: Refusal to complete a sale of messuages and land in Broad Clist
> > > and Silverton made by Walter Colbroke and Thomas Raynold.: Devon.
> > >
> > > I could find nothing to confirm BURKE'S PEERAGE statement that Walter
> > > Colbroke was a knight. It's probable Walter married a Kilrington
> > > heiress, as there's a final PRO document:
> > >
> > > C 1/107/26 Thomas Raynold v. Walter Quortney, knight, feoffee to
> > > uses.: Messuages and land in Kylryngton, Monkeculme, Beare, and
> > > Atford, late of Richard Kylryngton.: Devon.
> > >
> > > Whether Richard Kylryngton above was Alice's brother, uncle, or other
> > > kinsman remains unknown.
> > >
> > > Yet Alice's two marriages are linked. The mother of her first husband
> > > John de Vere was Joan Courtenay, widow of Sir Nicholas Carew, and
> > > daughter of Sir Hugh Courtenay of Hacombe. So John de Vere was
> > > kinsman to the Courtenay family of Powderham, of which her second
> > > husband Sir Walter Courtenay was a member.
> > >
> > > If anyone has any further info on Alice or her father, I'd appreciate
> > > it.
> > >
> > > Best regards, -------Brad Verity

Good find Brad.
Sir Walter evidently had an IPM
Can that be found so the age of his heir an be determined?
That might allow us to deteremin when they could have married

On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 4:23:14 PM UTC-8, Will Johnson wrote:
> On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 3:37:03 AM UTC-8, Erwin Gomis wrote:
> > Op dinsdag 30 januari 2018 om 02:24:41 UTC+1 schreef lindaza...@gmail.com:
> > > On Saturday, July 13, 2002 at 9:48:43 PM UTC-5, Brad Verity wrote:
> > > > CP gives the parents of John de Vere, 15th Earl of Oxford, as "s. and
> > > > h. of John de Vere, by Alice, da. and coh. of Walter Kilrington,
> > > > otherwise Colbroke."
> > > >
> > > > BURKE'S PEERAGE 106th Edition(1999) says John de Vere's wife was
> > > > "Alice, widow of Sir Walter Courtenay and daughter of Sir Walter
> > > > Colbroke or Kilrington."
> > > >
> > > > This is incorrect - the husbands are switched. Alice's first husband
> > > > was John de Vere, by whom she was mother of the 15th Earl of Oxford..
> > > > Her second husband was Sir Walter Courtenay, the fifth son of Sir
> > > > Philip Courtenay of Powderham and his wife Elizabeth Hungerford. The
> > > > order of Alice's marriages is proved by the PRO document:
> > > >
> > > > C 1/127/29 Walter Courteney, knight, and Alice, his wife, executrix
> > > > of John Vere. v. Hugh Lynke and Robert Knavysborowe, executors of
> > > > Nicholas Gosse, feoffee to uses.: The manors of Redwarry and Bodven,
> > > > and messuages and land in Tregennowe (Cornwall), and in Exeter.
> > > >
> > > > Sir Walter Courtenay is said to have died on 7 Nov. 1505/6, and to
> > > > have had two sons (William and Walter) and a daughter (Katherine) by
> > > > his wife Alice. Which would give the 15th Earl of Oxford three
> > > > Courtenay half-siblings.
> > > >
> > > > The background of Alice "Kilrington" remains obscure. Her father was
> > > > known by the surname of Colbroke, and seems to have been a Devonshire
> > > > gentleman, as the following PRO documents attest:
> > > >
> > > > C 1/26/352 Thomas, son of Nicholas Colbroke. v. Walter Colbroke:
> > > > Lands called Colbroke and Dorwyke.
> > > >
> > > > C 1/129/41 Walter Courteney, knight. v. John, lord Dynham, feoffee to
> > > > uses.: Refusal to complete a sale of messuages and land in Broad Clist
> > > > and Silverton made by Walter Colbroke and Thomas Raynold.: Devon.
> > > >
> > > > I could find nothing to confirm BURKE'S PEERAGE statement that Walter
> > > > Colbroke was a knight. It's probable Walter married a Kilrington
> > > > heiress, as there's a final PRO document:
> > > >
> > > > C 1/107/26 Thomas Raynold v. Walter Quortney, knight, feoffee to
> > > > uses.: Messuages and land in Kylryngton, Monkeculme, Beare, and
> > > > Atford, late of Richard Kylryngton.: Devon.
> > > >
> > > > Whether Richard Kylryngton above was Alice's brother, uncle, or other
> > > > kinsman remains unknown.
> > > >
> > > > Yet Alice's two marriages are linked. The mother of her first husband
> > > > John de Vere was Joan Courtenay, widow of Sir Nicholas Carew, and
> > > > daughter of Sir Hugh Courtenay of Hacombe. So John de Vere was
> > > > kinsman to the Courtenay family of Powderham, of which her second
> > > > husband Sir Walter Courtenay was a member.
> > > >
> > > > If anyone has any further info on Alice or her father, I'd appreciate
> > > > it.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards, -------Brad Verity
> Good find Brad.
> Sir Walter evidently had an IPM
> Can that be found so the age of his heir an be determined?
> That might allow us to deteremin when they could have married

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/series2-vol3/pp33-56

So a few things about this IPM
Since he created a charter naming his then-wife Alice 10H7 (1595), we can know they were married in or by that year
However he names in this same charter his three children Katherine, Walter, William

In his IPM dated 21H7, Walter his heir is then aged 15

So. Was Alice the mother of these three children? Or was the *point* of the charter to emphacize that she was their step mother and therefore he was ensuring she didn't steal the silverware when he died?

On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 4:33:04 PM UTC-8, Will Johnson wrote:
> On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 4:23:14 PM UTC-8, Will Johnson wrote:
> > On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 3:37:03 AM UTC-8, Erwin Gomis wrote:
> > > Op dinsdag 30 januari 2018 om 02:24:41 UTC+1 schreef lindaza...@gmail..com:
> > > > On Saturday, July 13, 2002 at 9:48:43 PM UTC-5, Brad Verity wrote:
> > > > > CP gives the parents of John de Vere, 15th Earl of Oxford, as "s. and
> > > > > h. of John de Vere, by Alice, da. and coh. of Walter Kilrington,
> > > > > otherwise Colbroke."
> > > > >
> > > > > BURKE'S PEERAGE 106th Edition(1999) says John de Vere's wife was
> > > > > "Alice, widow of Sir Walter Courtenay and daughter of Sir Walter
> > > > > Colbroke or Kilrington."
> > > > >
> > > > > This is incorrect - the husbands are switched. Alice's first husband
> > > > > was John de Vere, by whom she was mother of the 15th Earl of Oxford.
> > > > > Her second husband was Sir Walter Courtenay, the fifth son of Sir
> > > > > Philip Courtenay of Powderham and his wife Elizabeth Hungerford. The
> > > > > order of Alice's marriages is proved by the PRO document:
> > > > >
> > > > > C 1/127/29 Walter Courteney, knight, and Alice, his wife, executrix
> > > > > of John Vere. v. Hugh Lynke and Robert Knavysborowe, executors of
> > > > > Nicholas Gosse, feoffee to uses.: The manors of Redwarry and Bodven,
> > > > > and messuages and land in Tregennowe (Cornwall), and in Exeter.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sir Walter Courtenay is said to have died on 7 Nov. 1505/6, and to
> > > > > have had two sons (William and Walter) and a daughter (Katherine) by
> > > > > his wife Alice. Which would give the 15th Earl of Oxford three
> > > > > Courtenay half-siblings.
> > > > >
> > > > > The background of Alice "Kilrington" remains obscure. Her father was
> > > > > known by the surname of Colbroke, and seems to have been a Devonshire
> > > > > gentleman, as the following PRO documents attest:
> > > > >
> > > > > C 1/26/352 Thomas, son of Nicholas Colbroke. v. Walter Colbroke:
> > > > > Lands called Colbroke and Dorwyke.
> > > > >
> > > > > C 1/129/41 Walter Courteney, knight. v. John, lord Dynham, feoffee to
> > > > > uses.: Refusal to complete a sale of messuages and land in Broad Clist
> > > > > and Silverton made by Walter Colbroke and Thomas Raynold.: Devon.
> > > > >
> > > > > I could find nothing to confirm BURKE'S PEERAGE statement that Walter
> > > > > Colbroke was a knight. It's probable Walter married a Kilrington
> > > > > heiress, as there's a final PRO document:
> > > > >
> > > > > C 1/107/26 Thomas Raynold v. Walter Quortney, knight, feoffee to
> > > > > uses.: Messuages and land in Kylryngton, Monkeculme, Beare, and
> > > > > Atford, late of Richard Kylryngton.: Devon.
> > > > >
> > > > > Whether Richard Kylryngton above was Alice's brother, uncle, or other
> > > > > kinsman remains unknown.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yet Alice's two marriages are linked. The mother of her first husband
> > > > > John de Vere was Joan Courtenay, widow of Sir Nicholas Carew, and
> > > > > daughter of Sir Hugh Courtenay of Hacombe. So John de Vere was
> > > > > kinsman to the Courtenay family of Powderham, of which her second
> > > > > husband Sir Walter Courtenay was a member.
> > > > >
> > > > > If anyone has any further info on Alice or her father, I'd appreciate
> > > > > it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards, -------Brad Verity
> > Good find Brad.
> > Sir Walter evidently had an IPM
> > Can that be found so the age of his heir an be determined?
> > That might allow us to deteremin when they could have married
> https://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/series2-vol3/pp33-56
>
> So a few things about this IPM
> Since he created a charter naming his then-wife Alice 10H7 (1595), we can know they were married in or by that year
> However he names in this same charter his three children Katherine, Walter, William
>
> In his IPM dated 21H7, Walter his heir is then aged 15
>
> So. Was Alice the mother of these three children? Or was the *point* of the charter to emphacize that she was their step mother and therefore he was ensuring she didn't steal the silverware when he died?

There is another IPM which touches on this Alice
It is the IPM of her niece Joan Upton 8H7, only child of Alice' full sister alsonamed Joan, deceased

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/series2-vol1/pp344-364

In this IPM, Alice is specifically stated to be "aged 30 and more"

On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 4:43:05 PM UTC-8, Will Johnson wrote:
> On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 4:33:04 PM UTC-8, Will Johnson wrote:
> > On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 4:23:14 PM UTC-8, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 3:37:03 AM UTC-8, Erwin Gomis wrote:
> > > > Op dinsdag 30 januari 2018 om 02:24:41 UTC+1 schreef lindaza...@gmail.com:
> > > > > On Saturday, July 13, 2002 at 9:48:43 PM UTC-5, Brad Verity wrote:
> > > > > > CP gives the parents of John de Vere, 15th Earl of Oxford, as "s. and
> > > > > > h. of John de Vere, by Alice, da. and coh. of Walter Kilrington,
> > > > > > otherwise Colbroke."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > BURKE'S PEERAGE 106th Edition(1999) says John de Vere's wife was
> > > > > > "Alice, widow of Sir Walter Courtenay and daughter of Sir Walter
> > > > > > Colbroke or Kilrington."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is incorrect - the husbands are switched. Alice's first husband
> > > > > > was John de Vere, by whom she was mother of the 15th Earl of Oxford.
> > > > > > Her second husband was Sir Walter Courtenay, the fifth son of Sir
> > > > > > Philip Courtenay of Powderham and his wife Elizabeth Hungerford.. The
> > > > > > order of Alice's marriages is proved by the PRO document:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > C 1/127/29 Walter Courteney, knight, and Alice, his wife, executrix
> > > > > > of John Vere. v. Hugh Lynke and Robert Knavysborowe, executors of
> > > > > > Nicholas Gosse, feoffee to uses.: The manors of Redwarry and Bodven,
> > > > > > and messuages and land in Tregennowe (Cornwall), and in Exeter.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sir Walter Courtenay is said to have died on 7 Nov. 1505/6, and to
> > > > > > have had two sons (William and Walter) and a daughter (Katherine) by
> > > > > > his wife Alice. Which would give the 15th Earl of Oxford three
> > > > > > Courtenay half-siblings.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The background of Alice "Kilrington" remains obscure. Her father was
> > > > > > known by the surname of Colbroke, and seems to have been a Devonshire
> > > > > > gentleman, as the following PRO documents attest:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > C 1/26/352 Thomas, son of Nicholas Colbroke. v. Walter Colbroke:
> > > > > > Lands called Colbroke and Dorwyke.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > C 1/129/41 Walter Courteney, knight. v. John, lord Dynham, feoffee to
> > > > > > uses.: Refusal to complete a sale of messuages and land in Broad Clist
> > > > > > and Silverton made by Walter Colbroke and Thomas Raynold.: Devon.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I could find nothing to confirm BURKE'S PEERAGE statement that Walter
> > > > > > Colbroke was a knight. It's probable Walter married a Kilrington
> > > > > > heiress, as there's a final PRO document:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > C 1/107/26 Thomas Raynold v. Walter Quortney, knight, feoffee to
> > > > > > uses.: Messuages and land in Kylryngton, Monkeculme, Beare, and
> > > > > > Atford, late of Richard Kylryngton.: Devon.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Whether Richard Kylryngton above was Alice's brother, uncle, or other
> > > > > > kinsman remains unknown.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yet Alice's two marriages are linked. The mother of her first husband
> > > > > > John de Vere was Joan Courtenay, widow of Sir Nicholas Carew, and
> > > > > > daughter of Sir Hugh Courtenay of Hacombe. So John de Vere was
> > > > > > kinsman to the Courtenay family of Powderham, of which her second
> > > > > > husband Sir Walter Courtenay was a member.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If anyone has any further info on Alice or her father, I'd appreciate
> > > > > > it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best regards, -------Brad Verity
> > > Good find Brad.
> > > Sir Walter evidently had an IPM
> > > Can that be found so the age of his heir an be determined?
> > > That might allow us to deteremin when they could have married
> > https://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/series2-vol3/pp33-56
> >
> > So a few things about this IPM
> > Since he created a charter naming his then-wife Alice 10H7 (1595), we can know they were married in or by that year
> > However he names in this same charter his three children Katherine, Walter, William
> >
> > In his IPM dated 21H7, Walter his heir is then aged 15
> >
> > So. Was Alice the mother of these three children? Or was the *point* of the charter to emphacize that she was their step mother and therefore he was ensuring she didn't steal the silverware when he died?
> There is another IPM which touches on this Alice
> It is the IPM of her niece Joan Upton 8H7, only child of Alice' full sister alsonamed Joan, deceased
>
> https://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/series2-vol1/pp344-364
>
> In this IPM, Alice is specifically stated to be "aged 30 and more"

I would say it's likely this is the son and heir Walter here

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8672774

On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 5:04:55 PM UTC-8, Will Johnson wrote:
> On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 4:43:05 PM UTC-8, Will Johnson wrote:
> > On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 4:33:04 PM UTC-8, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 4:23:14 PM UTC-8, Will Johnson wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 3:37:03 AM UTC-8, Erwin Gomis wrote:
> > > > > Op dinsdag 30 januari 2018 om 02:24:41 UTC+1 schreef lindaza...@gmail.com:
> > > > > > On Saturday, July 13, 2002 at 9:48:43 PM UTC-5, Brad Verity wrote:
> > > > > > > CP gives the parents of John de Vere, 15th Earl of Oxford, as "s. and
> > > > > > > h. of John de Vere, by Alice, da. and coh. of Walter Kilrington,
> > > > > > > otherwise Colbroke."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > BURKE'S PEERAGE 106th Edition(1999) says John de Vere's wife was
> > > > > > > "Alice, widow of Sir Walter Courtenay and daughter of Sir Walter
> > > > > > > Colbroke or Kilrington."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is incorrect - the husbands are switched. Alice's first husband
> > > > > > > was John de Vere, by whom she was mother of the 15th Earl of Oxford.
> > > > > > > Her second husband was Sir Walter Courtenay, the fifth son of Sir
> > > > > > > Philip Courtenay of Powderham and his wife Elizabeth Hungerford. The
> > > > > > > order of Alice's marriages is proved by the PRO document:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > C 1/127/29 Walter Courteney, knight, and Alice, his wife, executrix
> > > > > > > of John Vere. v. Hugh Lynke and Robert Knavysborowe, executors of
> > > > > > > Nicholas Gosse, feoffee to uses.: The manors of Redwarry and Bodven,
> > > > > > > and messuages and land in Tregennowe (Cornwall), and in Exeter.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sir Walter Courtenay is said to have died on 7 Nov. 1505/6, and to
> > > > > > > have had two sons (William and Walter) and a daughter (Katherine) by
> > > > > > > his wife Alice. Which would give the 15th Earl of Oxford three
> > > > > > > Courtenay half-siblings.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The background of Alice "Kilrington" remains obscure. Her father was
> > > > > > > known by the surname of Colbroke, and seems to have been a Devonshire
> > > > > > > gentleman, as the following PRO documents attest:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > C 1/26/352 Thomas, son of Nicholas Colbroke. v. Walter Colbroke:
> > > > > > > Lands called Colbroke and Dorwyke.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > C 1/129/41 Walter Courteney, knight. v. John, lord Dynham, feoffee to
> > > > > > > uses.: Refusal to complete a sale of messuages and land in Broad Clist
> > > > > > > and Silverton made by Walter Colbroke and Thomas Raynold.: Devon.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I could find nothing to confirm BURKE'S PEERAGE statement that Walter
> > > > > > > Colbroke was a knight. It's probable Walter married a Kilrington
> > > > > > > heiress, as there's a final PRO document:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > C 1/107/26 Thomas Raynold v. Walter Quortney, knight, feoffee to
> > > > > > > uses.: Messuages and land in Kylryngton, Monkeculme, Beare, and
> > > > > > > Atford, late of Richard Kylryngton.: Devon.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Whether Richard Kylryngton above was Alice's brother, uncle, or other
> > > > > > > kinsman remains unknown.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yet Alice's two marriages are linked. The mother of her first husband
> > > > > > > John de Vere was Joan Courtenay, widow of Sir Nicholas Carew, and
> > > > > > > daughter of Sir Hugh Courtenay of Hacombe. So John de Vere was
> > > > > > > kinsman to the Courtenay family of Powderham, of which her second
> > > > > > > husband Sir Walter Courtenay was a member.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If anyone has any further info on Alice or her father, I'd appreciate
> > > > > > > it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best regards, -------Brad Verity
> > > > Good find Brad.
> > > > Sir Walter evidently had an IPM
> > > > Can that be found so the age of his heir an be determined?
> > > > That might allow us to deteremin when they could have married
> > > https://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/series2-vol3/pp33-56
> > >
> > > So a few things about this IPM
> > > Since he created a charter naming his then-wife Alice 10H7 (1595), we can know they were married in or by that year
> > > However he names in this same charter his three children Katherine, Walter, William
> > >
> > > In his IPM dated 21H7, Walter his heir is then aged 15
> > >
> > > So. Was Alice the mother of these three children? Or was the *point* of the charter to emphacize that she was their step mother and therefore he was ensuring she didn't steal the silverware when he died?
> > There is another IPM which touches on this Alice
> > It is the IPM of her niece Joan Upton 8H7, only child of Alice' full sister alsonamed Joan, deceased
> >
> > https://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/series2-vol1/pp344-364
> >
> > In this IPM, Alice is specifically stated to be "aged 30 and more"
> I would say it's likely this is the son and heir Walter here
>
> https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8672774

It's possible this could be the IPM of that son Walter

C 142/44/121
Description:

Courtenay, Walter: Devon
Date: 17 Hen. VIII.