On Sunday, January 27, 2013 at 9:52:58 AM UTC-5, John Watson wrote:
> On Jan 27, 6:40 am, "TJ Booth" <tjbo...@aol.com> wrote:
> > On Saturday, January 26, 2013 2:30 AM, "John Watson" wrote :
> >
> > <Snip>
> >
> > So now I have a Hansard pedigree like this:
> >
> > Sir Robert Hansard = Margaret Gascoigne?
> > died bef. 14 Feb 1391
> > |
> > Sir Richard Hansard = Joan Aske
> > 1377 - 25 Nov 1428 ca. 1380 - aft. Apr 1440
> >
> > <Snip>
> >
> > John, Will and all:
> >
> > There are two different Hansard lines, one of Walworth Durham and one of
> > South Kelsey. That one generation of Richard Hansards had wives named Joan
> > (Aske, Hedworth) may be the source of much confusion and flawed pedigrees.
> >
> > The previously noted will for Robert Hansard Chivaler 'of Walworth Durham'
> > who d. bef 14 Feb 1390/91 [books.google.com/books?id=x_VVAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA132]
> > lists his children as :
> > Item lego Gilberto filio meo xx marcas sterl.
> > Et Roberto filio meo xx marc. sterl.
> > Et Johannae filia e mea e quater viginti marcas sterl. ad maritagium
> > suum.
> > Item lego Margaretae filia e mea e centum solidos sterl.
> > Et Johanni filio meo xx marcas.
> > Et Willielmo filio meo xx marcas.
> > Et Marjoria e filia e mea e xx marcas
> >
> > No Richard m. Aske, who didn't die until 1428 per your posts. Nor is the
> > name of Robert Hansard's wife noted. There is a reasonable pedigree for
> > Hansard of Walworth Durham (also has Hedworth) in Hutchinson, History and
> > Antiquities of the County Palatine of Durham Vol 3 page xxiv [
> > books.google.com/books?id=tJAxAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PR24 ] This suggests that Sir
> > Robert m. Margaret Gascoigne was the son of Sir Robert of the will - I have
> > Margaret as sister of the chief justice based on chronology. Also note that
> > the Richard m. Joan Aske is not shown.
> >
> > The Visitation of the North pedigree for Aske of Ousthorpe [page 96,
> > visitation in Surtees Vol 144 @www.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/northern/surtees144text.pdf] is quite early, which
> > I date to 1480 based on the people identified There is a rather good list of
> > Joan Aske's siblings, including brother John who m. Elizabeth dau of chief
> > justice William Gascoigne [this chronology works, my notes suggest she was
> > by first wife Elizabeth Mowbray], and seems a more reliable presentation of
> > the Aske family than later pedigrees. It states that 'Johanna nupta Ricardo
> > Hansard de Comitatu Lincoln' which is a bit of a way from Walworth Durham.
> > He is not shown as a knight. Joan's husband was a Hansard of South Kelsey -
> > do not know where they connect with Durham.
> >
> > Hansard was in South Kelsey for many years. 1303 Feudal aides for
> > Lincolnshire, [books.google.com/books?id=3eArAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA138 ] shows South
> > Kelsey was held by Gilbert that earlier was held by John ("De Roberto
> > Haunsard tenente j. f. in South Kelsey, quod Johannes Haunsard quondam
> > tenuit."). In 1346 it was held by Robert son of Gilbert [page 214]:
> > ("Robertus filius Gilberti Haunsard tenet j. f. in South Kellbsay, quod
> > Robertus Haunsard quondam tenuit"). The same page has Gilbert's wife as Lora
> > Asterby "Lora, que fuit uxor Gilberti Haunsard, tenet vj. partem j. f. in
> > Thornton, quam Rogerus de Asterby quondam tenuit." Richard Hansard held them
> > in 1431 [page 356] "Ricardus Haunsard de South Kelsay in comitatu
> > Lincolnie, armiger, fuit seisitus etc. de terris et tenementis in South
> > Kelsay et Thornton, que tenentur per medietatem un. f. m. His father,
> > Richard d. 1428, of South Kelsey was sheriff in 1419.
> >
> > >From ARCHDEACON'S VISITATION, 1448. South KelseY. Richard Hansard senior,
> >
> > Richard Hansard junr., Henry Hansard, Wm. Hansard, and several others, all
> > of South Kelsey, presented for violence in S. Kelsey Church even to
> > bloodshed, on 13 Dec. 1448. And Henry Hansard for laying violent hands on
> > Wm. Workworth priest at Brantingham, "qui manet in Hull."
> > The related record notes "Hic jacent Dominus Ricardus Haunsard Miles et
> > Domina Johanna nuperuxor ejus. Who dyed in the feast of St. Katherine A�
> > 1428 and she dyed a� Domini 14... . His wife is surely Joan Aske, but I
> > question if his son is the one who m. Joan Hedworth - that is a flawed
> > identification. There are also arms of Hansard impaling Aske (can't recall
> > where - here?).
> >
> > The question of this couple's descendants are found in Maddison's
> > Lincolnshire pedigree for Hansard of South Kelsey, which starts with Sir
> > Richard d. 1428 bur in South Kelsey church with wife Joan. The pedigree
> > misidentifies her as Joan Hedworth, when she ought to be identified as Joan
> > Aske. [books.google.com/books?id=raNCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA455] . The pedigree shows
> > their grandson Richard [not knight] age 9 in 1467 as the husband of
> > Elizabeth Blount dau of Thomas Blount of Girsby by Agnes dau [and heir] of
> > Sir John Hawley of Utterby. Elizabeth's sister was Anne Blount who m.
> > William Marbury who had immigrant descendants - Blount was a descendant of
> > Sancha de Ayala.
> >
> > Terry Booth
> > Chicago IL
> Terry,
>
> The family of Hansard of South Kelsey Lincolnshire and Hansard of
> Walworth, Durham are the same family. See my next post.
>
> Regards,
>
> John