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interests / rec.games.chess.misc / Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anyway

SubjectAuthor
* Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayEli Kesef
`* Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayWilliam Hyde
 `* Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayEli Kesef
  `* Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayWilliam Hyde
   `* Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayKen Blake
    +* Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayEli Kesef
    |`* Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayKen Blake
    | `* Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayWilliam Hyde
    |  +- Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayEli Kesef
    |  `* Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayKen Blake
    |   +* Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayEli Kesef
    |   |`* Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayEli Kesef
    |   | `* Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayKen Blake
    |   |  +- Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayEli Kesef
    |   |  +* Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayThe Horny Goat
    |   |  |+- Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayEli Kesef
    |   |  |`* Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayKen Blake
    |   |  | `* Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayKen Blake
    |   |  |  `* Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayEli Kesef
    |   |  |   +* Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayWilliam Hyde
    |   |  |   |+- Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayKen Blake
    |   |  |   |`* Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayEli Kesef
    |   |  |   | `* Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayWilliam Hyde
    |   |  |   |  `* Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayEli Kesef
    |   |  |   |   `- Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayWilliam Hyde
    |   |  |   `* Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayEli Kesef
    |   |  |    `- Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayWilliam Hyde
    |   |  `- Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayWilliam Hyde
    |   `* Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayThe Horny Goat
    |    `- Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayKen Blake
    `* Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayKen Blake
     `- Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anywayKen Blake

Pages:12
Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anyway

<japjqcFarepU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: ken...@invalidemail.com (Ken Blake)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess.misc
Subject: Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anyway
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 17:31:07 -0700
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 by: Ken Blake - Sat, 2 Apr 2022 00:31 UTC

On 4/1/2022 1:12 PM, William Hyde wrote:
> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 4:33:26 AM UTC-4, Eli Kesef wrote:
>> Bs"d
>>
>> And I got another one, an anti-miniature. One of those guys he really REALLY don't wanna say die. He dragged on and on and on, so I thought: "Let's give this guy a hand." After all, we are in the world to help each other, ain't we?
>
> These people who play 15+ increment as if it was bullet confuse me. Does he think there are extra points for losing with more time on the clock?
>
> Your Bd4 move sent me to the hospital with uncontrolled vomiting. They didn't think I would live but an emergency dose of Lasker stabilized me.

LOL. Yep, a terrible move especially, when followed by Bc5. It took him
two moves to get him back to where he started with another White piece
developed.

--
Ken

Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anyway

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Subject: Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anyway
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Sat, 2 Apr 2022 17:03 UTC

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 11:12:42 PM UTC+3, William Hyde wrote:
> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 4:33:26 AM UTC-4, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > Bs"d
> >
> > And I got another one, an anti-miniature. One of those guys he really REALLY don't wanna say die. He dragged on and on and on, so I thought: "Let's give this guy a hand." After all, we are in the world to help each other, ain't we?
> These people who play 15+ increment as if it was bullet confuse me. Does he think there are extra points for losing with more time on the clock?
>
> Your Bd4 move sent me to the hospital with uncontrolled vomiting. They didn't think I would live but an emergency dose of Lasker stabilized me.

Bs"d

I'm glad you're feeling better now. I admit that Bd5 was not the greatest move, but the only thing I lost with it were 2 tempi, so that was not so bad.

https://tinyurl.com/100-traps

Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anyway

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Subject: Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anyway
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Sat, 2 Apr 2022 19:03 UTC

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 1:03:54 PM UTC-4, Eli Kesef wrote:
> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 11:12:42 PM UTC+3, William Hyde wrote:
> > On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 4:33:26 AM UTC-4, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > > Bs"d
> > >
> > > And I got another one, an anti-miniature. One of those guys he really REALLY don't wanna say die. He dragged on and on and on, so I thought: "Let's give this guy a hand." After all, we are in the world to help each other, ain't we?
> > These people who play 15+ increment as if it was bullet confuse me. Does he think there are extra points for losing with more time on the clock?
> >
> > Your Bd4 move sent me to the hospital with uncontrolled vomiting. They didn't think I would live but an emergency dose of Lasker stabilized me.
> Bs"d
>
> I'm glad you're feeling better now. I admit that Bd5 was not the greatest move, but the only thing I lost with it were 2 tempi, so that was not so bad.

That is actually quite terrible. After your second Bc5 you had a distinctly inferior position, probably lost. As white I would expect to win, but being a crap player, I'd likely blunder a piece at fast time controls.

Resist the temptation to move the same piece twice, unless there is a threat that the opponent cannot meet with a developing move.

William Hyde

Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anyway

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Subject: Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anyway
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Sun, 3 Apr 2022 12:08 UTC

Bs"d

Those stories about "Don't waste any time, develop at all cost as fast as possible!" hold water. Sometimes.

Especially in open games. But, in closed openings, say 1. d5, or the Sicilian, which is considered half open, those rules are not so important.

And about me playing the pawns on the side, often and early, I took notice since you said that, and it is also mentioned in the golden opening rules of the first good chess book I bought that you should not play up the pawns on the side, and I saw a lot of titled players playing up their pawns on the side. I even saw Alpha-Zero doing that against Stockfish. And winning with it.
In the Sicilian there is at least on line where black prophylactic plays a6, without attacking anything with it.

So yes, in general those rules are important, it is just that there are MANY exceptions to the rules.

Here are the golden opening rules from my second, first good, chess book:

1. If the oppenent allows it, then we occupy the centre with two centre pawns.

2. In general we develop the horses before the bishops.

3. In the opening we try to do as fast as possible the short castling.

4. In the opening don’t play twice with the same piece.

5. Play the pieces to squares where they have maximum effect. Therefore, moves like Nh3, Na3, Na5, Nh6, are done only in exceptional cases.

6. The heavy pieces, castles and queen, are not taken out until the light pieces are developed and the castling has been done.

7. Don’t play a3, h3, a6 and h6. Don’t play more than two pawn moves in the opening.

So I was already familiar with the concept, it is just that experience tells me that I fare better when I do play up my side pawns.
And not always of course, sometimes I prefer to let the enemy bishop come and pin my horse, and only then I start chasing him away with pawns, while in the process I get a pawn storm on the enemy king side.
It all depends.

Concerning the rule “In the opening don’t play twice with the same piece.”, in the two horses defense, after white start with the Italian, then the move Ng5, playing the horse twice in the opening, and attacking f7, is a perfectly fine move.

So there are a lot of exceptions to the rules. Don’t take them too seriously and don’t be to dogmatic about them.

https://tinyurl.com/ziematin1

Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anyway

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Subject: Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anyway
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Sun, 3 Apr 2022 20:07 UTC

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 8:08:24 AM UTC-4, Eli Kesef wrote:
> Bs"d
>
> Those stories about "Don't waste any time, develop at all cost as fast as possible!" hold water. Sometimes.
>
> Especially in open games. But, in closed openings, say 1. d5, or the Sicilian, which is considered half open, those rules are not so important.

This is true. But you are not playing many closed games.

>
> And about me playing the pawns on the side, often and early, I took notice since you said that, and it is also mentioned in the golden opening rules of the first good chess book I bought that you should not play up the pawns on the side, and I saw a lot of titled players playing up their pawns on the side. I even saw Alpha-Zero doing that against Stockfish. And winning with it.
> In the Sicilian there is at least on line where black prophylactic plays a6, without attacking anything with it.
>
> So yes, in general those rules are important, it is just that there are MANY exceptions to the rules.

When you are a weak player, stick to the rules when in doubt. As you get stronger the exceptions will become more obvious. Moving the same piece twice to make a threat that can be profitably met is not an exception.
>
> Here are the golden opening rules from my second, first good, chess book:
>
> 1. If the oppenent allows it, then we occupy the centre with two centre pawns.

I seldom do this as black. I prefer to undermine the centre. Just another exception.

>
> 2. In general we develop the horses before the bishops.

Probably one of the weakest rules. Generally you know where your knights should go but are uncertain about your bishops, so it's best to postpone those. Not if you want to play a Ruy Lopez, though. Or various fianchetto openings.
>
> 3. In the opening we try to do as fast as possible the short castling.

Not a good rule in my view. By all means get your king out of the centre in an open game, but this can be unwise in closed or semi-open games. In the Sicilian black is often right to postpone castling until he has enough queen side play to keep white busy. And sometimes queenside castling is mandatory.

>
> 4. In the opening don’t play twice with the same piece.

Good rule with some obvious exceptions.
>
> 5. Play the pieces to squares where they have maximum effect. Therefore, moves like Nh3, Na3, Na5, Nh6, are done only in exceptional cases.

Yes, centralize your forces.
>
> 6. The heavy pieces, castles and queen, are not taken out until the light pieces are developed and the castling has been done.

Usually.
>
> 7. Don’t play a3, h3, a6 and h6. Don’t play more than two pawn moves in the opening.

I usually play three. That advice was given when almost every opening was e4 or d4, and fianchettos were considered suspect. In the days when Tarrasch declared the Sicilian to be unsound.
>
> So I was already familiar with the concept, it is just that experience tells me that I fare better when I do play up my side pawns.

When I was in a town with weaker players I found that I won faster by playing bad moves. But when I came back home those bad habits were hard to break, and I was a much weaker player than I had been.

William Hyde

Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anyway

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Subject: Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anyway
From: nastyhor...@gmail.com (Eli Kesef)
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 by: Eli Kesef - Sun, 5 Feb 2023 00:54 UTC

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 11:33:26 AM UTC+3, Eli Kesef wrote:
> Bs"d
>
> And I got another one, an anti-miniature. One of those guys he really REALLY don't wanna say die. He dragged on and on and on, so I thought: "Let's give this guy a hand." After all, we are in the world to help each other, ain't we?
>
> So the enemy was left with a bare king, while I had a castle and 6 pawns: https://lichess.org/tvaD5ntbHWNq
>
> And he played on. So I horsed a pawn, and then I bishopped a pawn, (nobody objects when somebody says: "I queened my pawn", so please don't start whining about me not queening my pawn, but converting it to something else) and then I queened the rest, after which I fed those queens to his king.
> At one point he even refused to take my queens and my last castle. I had to force feed them to him.
> But anyway, at last he was left with his bare king, and I started to mate him with my king, horse and bishop.
> With good success I might add, it took me only 27 moves, and he was mate on move 114.
>
> Chalk up another one for the good guy!

Bs"d

Got here another one, who really didn't want to resign. On move 65 he was left with a bare king, and I had a queen, bishop, and pawn. And he played on.

So again, I lend him a hand, and I brought my pawn to the other side, and horsed it. Then I fed my queen to his king, and I was left with bishop and horse against his bare king. This was on move 72.

On move 106 I mated him.

That will teach him.

And keep me in shape with the horse-bishop mate.

https://tinyurl.com/horse-bishop

Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anyway

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Subject: Re: Somebody who resigns gracefully never intended to win anyway
From: wthyde1...@gmail.com (William Hyde)
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 by: William Hyde - Sun, 5 Feb 2023 23:21 UTC

On Saturday, February 4, 2023 at 7:54:47 PM UTC-5, Eli Kesef wrote:
> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 11:33:26 AM UTC+3, Eli Kesef wrote:
> > Bs"d
> >
> > And I got another one, an anti-miniature. One of those guys he really REALLY don't wanna say die. He dragged on and on and on, so I thought: "Let's give this guy a hand." After all, we are in the world to help each other, ain't we?
> >
> > So the enemy was left with a bare king, while I had a castle and 6 pawns: https://lichess.org/tvaD5ntbHWNq
> >
> > And he played on. So I horsed a pawn, and then I bishopped a pawn, (nobody objects when somebody says: "I queened my pawn", so please don't start whining about me not queening my pawn, but converting it to something else) and then I queened the rest, after which I fed those queens to his king.
> > At one point he even refused to take my queens and my last castle. I had to force feed them to him.
> > But anyway, at last he was left with his bare king, and I started to mate him with my king, horse and bishop.
> > With good success I might add, it took me only 27 moves, and he was mate on move 114.
> >
> > Chalk up another one for the good guy!
> Bs"d
>
> Got here another one, who really didn't want to resign. On move 65 he was left with a bare king, and I had a queen, bishop, and pawn. And he played on.
>
> So again, I lend him a hand, and I brought my pawn to the other side, and horsed it. Then I fed my queen to his king, and I was left with bishop and horse against his bare king. This was on move 72.
>
> On move 106 I mated him.

Everybody does this once. After that we mate the time-wasting bastards ASAP.
>
> That will teach him.

It won't.
>
> And keep me in shape with the horse-bishop mate.

It will.

William Hyde

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