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1
Bolton wini Bidena

<92b0132a-24ab-4870-9336-95d185ce176fn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Bolton wini Bidena
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 by: Basia - Fri, 18 Aug 2023 10:38 UTC

John Bolton to byly Podsekretarz Stanu oraz
Ambassador do ONZ (za Prezydenta W. Busha)
oraz doradca do spraw bezpieczeństwa narodowego
(za Donalda Trumpa). W ponizszym artykule wini
Jor Bidena za niepowodzenie Ukrainy w odparciu
inwazji Rosji.

Blame Biden’s Hesitancy for Stalling Ukraine’s Offensive

Paralyzed by fear of Russian escalation, the administration has sought only to stave off defeat.

Ukraine’s spring offensive, now well into the summer, isn’t making the headway some proponents had forecast. The Ukrainians aren’t lacking in bravery or tenacity, and they’ve achieved eye-catching successes, such as the recent crippling of Russia’s Olenegorsky Gornyak, a roll-on/roll-off landing ship. Nevertheless, it should be a wake-up call for Washington that its strategy needs reformulating.

The solution isn’t a cease-fire and negotiation, as some in the West advocate. If Vladimir Putin were to agree to it, he would do so at a time of his choosing, not ours. He will likely propose a cease-fire if Moscow contains Kyiv’s attacks by early autumn, with the goal of trying to win through negotiations what Russia’s armed forces have failed to take on the battlefield. Accepting this offer would lead to Ukraine’s de facto partition—an unacceptable proposition for Kyiv and its Eastern European neighbors.

Far from being inevitable, the Ukrainians’ inability to achieve major advances is the natural result of a U.S. strategy aimed only at staving off Russian conquest. Instead, President Biden needs to start vigorously working toward Ukrainian victory.

Ukraine’s offensive failures and Russia’s defensive successes share a common cause: the slow, faltering, nonstrategic supply of military assistance by the West. The serial debates over whether to supply this or that weapons system, the perpetual fear that Russia will escalate to war against the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, and occasional Kremlin nuclear saber-rattling have instilled a paralyzing caution in Western capitals. Although the U.K. under Boris Johnson wasn’t deterred, NATO has seemed unwilling to fulfill its commitment to restore Ukraine’s full sovereignty and territorial integrity.

This hesitancy is a product of successful deterrence by the Kremlin, not American strategic necessity. There is no evidence that Russia has the conventional military capability to threaten NATO or the will to launch a nuclear strike. Despite Moscow’s repeated nuclear threats, the intelligence community has affirmed in congressional testimony that Russia’s nuclear capabilities haven’t once shifted toward operational status. Mr. Putin has been bluffing. That could change, but succumbing to bluffs gives him exactly what he wants cost-free.

The administration’s timid, haphazard approach to aid has fractured U.S. public support. Mr. Biden has compounded this problem with his insistence that the war is about Wilsonian abstractions of democracy vs. authoritarianism. Wilsonian principles have never motivated U.S. majorities, even when preached by the genuine article. There are compelling arguments that assisting Ukraine serves our strategic interest, but the president isn’t making them. He and Donald Trump both undercut Republican support for aid.

The West—particularly Washington—also needs to rethink sanctions policy radically. Theories about price caps on Russian oil have failed, and Western sanctions generally remain piecemeal and seriously underenforced. These defects aren’t confined to the Ukraine conflict and should prompt NATO institutionally to review how it conducts enforcement. Proclaiming sanctions is great PR, but enforcement is hard, tedious and necessarily done clandestinely where possible. The U.S. and its allies need a massive overhaul and upgrade of our sanction-enforcement instruments, procedures and personnel.

The White House and NATO also both need to take more seriously China’s role in Ukraine. The West should be imposing sanctions directly on Beijing given China’s enormous support to Moscow, including hydrocarbon purchases, laundering of Russian financial transactions, and supplying of dual use and nonlethal military equipment. Beijing has denied providing lethal assistance, but a recent U.S. intelligence report said that Chinese companies have shipped Russian defense firms parts for fighter jets as well as drones.

It’s also important that the West see through any Chinese ploy to “mediate” the conflict. Such an offer from Beijing would undoubtedly seem positive to some who don’t yet appreciate the long-term threat China poses. And because the White House is obsessed with achieving climate-change agreements with Beijing, it would find European Union blandishments to appease China dangerously appealing.

China’s involvement makes it important that Washington actively involve key Indo-Pacific allies in the Biden administration’s new strategy on Ukraine. Mr. Biden’s impending trilateral summit with Japan and South Korea provides an excellent opportunity for such engagement, but much more is necessary. While some NATO members may resist including “outsiders,” this is the moment for the alliance to thrash out the global nature of the threat we all face from the rising China-Russia axis. Ukraine is precisely the kind of crisis that requires global collaboration.

More Ukrainian military progress may come as the offensive continues, but it’s vital that the Biden administration start formulating a new strategy. The White House must make midcourse corrections to its strategic errors of the past 18 months if it’s to bolster domestic U.S. support for Ukraine and revitalize and broaden the anti-Russia coalition. It’s time to get moving.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/blame-bidens-hesitancy-for-stalling-ukraines-offensive-nato-aid-weapons-military-war-fight-europe-national-security-a62d9899

Re: Bolton wini Bidena

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Subject: Re: Bolton wini Bidena
From: abjj...@sbcglobal.net (Basia)
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 by: Basia - Sat, 19 Aug 2023 00:14 UTC

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 3:38:54 AM UTC-7, Basia wrote:

> John Bolton to byly Podsekretarz Stanu oraz
> Ambassador do ONZ (za Prezydenta W. Busha)
> oraz doradca do spraw bezpieczeństwa narodowego
> (za Donalda Trumpa). W ponizszym artykule wini
> Jor Bidena za niepowodzenie Ukrainy w odparciu
> inwazji Rosji.

Sadze ze Bolton moze podejrzewac ze wojna
na Ukrainie ma w zamiarze fizyczne przetrzebienie
Ukraincow-Banderowcow a nie pokonanie Rosji.

Wojna do ostatniego Ukrainca nie zas wygrana
Ukrainy.

Basia (Ona/Jej)

> Blame Biden’s Hesitancy for Stalling Ukraine’s Offensive
>
> Paralyzed by fear of Russian escalation, the administration has sought only to stave off defeat.
>
> Ukraine’s spring offensive, now well into the summer, isn’t making the headway some proponents had forecast. The Ukrainians aren’t lacking in bravery or tenacity, and they’ve achieved eye-catching successes, such as the recent crippling of Russia’s Olenegorsky Gornyak, a roll-on/roll-off landing ship. Nevertheless, it should be a wake-up call for Washington that its strategy needs reformulating.
>
> The solution isn’t a cease-fire and negotiation, as some in the West advocate. If Vladimir Putin were to agree to it, he would do so at a time of his choosing, not ours. He will likely propose a cease-fire if Moscow contains Kyiv’s attacks by early autumn, with the goal of trying to win through negotiations what Russia’s armed forces have failed to take on the battlefield. Accepting this offer would lead to Ukraine’s de facto partition—an unacceptable proposition for Kyiv and its Eastern European neighbors.
>
> Far from being inevitable, the Ukrainians’ inability to achieve major advances is the natural result of a U.S. strategy aimed only at staving off Russian conquest. Instead, President Biden needs to start vigorously working toward Ukrainian victory.
>
> Ukraine’s offensive failures and Russia’s defensive successes share a common cause: the slow, faltering, nonstrategic supply of military assistance by the West. The serial debates over whether to supply this or that weapons system, the perpetual fear that Russia will escalate to war against the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, and occasional Kremlin nuclear saber-rattling have instilled a paralyzing caution in Western capitals. Although the U.K. under Boris Johnson wasn’t deterred, NATO has seemed unwilling to fulfill its commitment to restore Ukraine’s full sovereignty and territorial integrity.
>
> This hesitancy is a product of successful deterrence by the Kremlin, not American strategic necessity. There is no evidence that Russia has the conventional military capability to threaten NATO or the will to launch a nuclear strike. Despite Moscow’s repeated nuclear threats, the intelligence community has affirmed in congressional testimony that Russia’s nuclear capabilities haven’t once shifted toward operational status. Mr. Putin has been bluffing. That could change, but succumbing to bluffs gives him exactly what he wants cost-free.
>
> The administration’s timid, haphazard approach to aid has fractured U.S. public support. Mr. Biden has compounded this problem with his insistence that the war is about Wilsonian abstractions of democracy vs. authoritarianism. Wilsonian principles have never motivated U.S. majorities, even when preached by the genuine article. There are compelling arguments that assisting Ukraine serves our strategic interest, but the president isn’t making them. He and Donald Trump both undercut Republican support for aid.
>
> The West—particularly Washington—also needs to rethink sanctions policy radically. Theories about price caps on Russian oil have failed, and Western sanctions generally remain piecemeal and seriously underenforced. These defects aren’t confined to the Ukraine conflict and should prompt NATO institutionally to review how it conducts enforcement. Proclaiming sanctions is great PR, but enforcement is hard, tedious and necessarily done clandestinely where possible. The U.S. and its allies need a massive overhaul and upgrade of our sanction-enforcement instruments, procedures and personnel.
>
> The White House and NATO also both need to take more seriously China’s role in Ukraine. The West should be imposing sanctions directly on Beijing given China’s enormous support to Moscow, including hydrocarbon purchases, laundering of Russian financial transactions, and supplying of dual use and nonlethal military equipment. Beijing has denied providing lethal assistance, but a recent U.S. intelligence report said that Chinese companies have shipped Russian defense firms parts for fighter jets as well as drones.
>
> It’s also important that the West see through any Chinese ploy to “mediate” the conflict. Such an offer from Beijing would undoubtedly seem positive to some who don’t yet appreciate the long-term threat China poses. And because the White House is obsessed with achieving climate-change agreements with Beijing, it would find European Union blandishments to appease China dangerously appealing.
>
> China’s involvement makes it important that Washington actively involve key Indo-Pacific allies in the Biden administration’s new strategy on Ukraine. Mr. Biden’s impending trilateral summit with Japan and South Korea provides an excellent opportunity for such engagement, but much more is necessary. While some NATO members may resist including “outsiders,” this is the moment for the alliance to thrash out the global nature of the threat we all face from the rising China-Russia axis. Ukraine is precisely the kind of crisis that requires global collaboration.
>
> More Ukrainian military progress may come as the offensive continues, but it’s vital that the Biden administration start formulating a new strategy. The White House must make midcourse corrections to its strategic errors of the past 18 months if it’s to bolster domestic U.S. support for Ukraine and revitalize and broaden the anti-Russia coalition. It’s time to get moving.
>
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/blame-bidens-hesitancy-for-stalling-ukraines-offensive-nato-aid-weapons-military-war-fight-europe-national-security-a62d9899

Re: Bolton wini Bidena

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Subject: Re: Bolton wini Bidena
From: abjj...@sbcglobal.net (Basia)
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 by: Basia - Sat, 19 Aug 2023 00:18 UTC

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 5:14:57 PM UTC-7, Basia wrote:
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 3:38:54 AM UTC-7, Basia wrote:
>
> > John Bolton to byly Podsekretarz Stanu oraz
> > Ambassador do ONZ (za Prezydenta W. Busha)
> > oraz doradca do spraw bezpieczeństwa narodowego
> > (za Donalda Trumpa). W ponizszym artykule wini
> > Jor Bidena za niepowodzenie Ukrainy w odparciu
> > inwazji Rosji.
>
> Sadze ze Bolton moze podejrzewac ze wojna
> na Ukrainie ma w zamiarze fizyczne przetrzebienie
> Ukraincow-Banderowcow a nie pokonanie Rosji.
>
> Wojna do ostatniego Ukrainca nie zas wygrana
> Ukrainy.

Mozna argumentowac ze miejsce Ukraincow
jest w Mongolii a nie w Europie.

Byc moze realizuje sie jzu podobne plany,
rekoma KGB-owcow, Putynia, Wagnera, Kadyrewa
i kogo tam jeszcze.

Basia (Ona/Jej)

> > Blame Biden’s Hesitancy for Stalling Ukraine’s Offensive
> >
> > Paralyzed by fear of Russian escalation, the administration has sought only to stave off defeat.
> >
> > Ukraine’s spring offensive, now well into the summer, isn’t making the headway some proponents had forecast. The Ukrainians aren’t lacking in bravery or tenacity, and they’ve achieved eye-catching successes, such as the recent crippling of Russia’s Olenegorsky Gornyak, a roll-on/roll-off landing ship. Nevertheless, it should be a wake-up call for Washington that its strategy needs reformulating.
> >
> > The solution isn’t a cease-fire and negotiation, as some in the West advocate. If Vladimir Putin were to agree to it, he would do so at a time of his choosing, not ours. He will likely propose a cease-fire if Moscow contains Kyiv’s attacks by early autumn, with the goal of trying to win through negotiations what Russia’s armed forces have failed to take on the battlefield. Accepting this offer would lead to Ukraine’s de facto partition—an unacceptable proposition for Kyiv and its Eastern European neighbors.
> >
> > Far from being inevitable, the Ukrainians’ inability to achieve major advances is the natural result of a U.S. strategy aimed only at staving off Russian conquest. Instead, President Biden needs to start vigorously working toward Ukrainian victory.
> >
> > Ukraine’s offensive failures and Russia’s defensive successes share a common cause: the slow, faltering, nonstrategic supply of military assistance by the West. The serial debates over whether to supply this or that weapons system, the perpetual fear that Russia will escalate to war against the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, and occasional Kremlin nuclear saber-rattling have instilled a paralyzing caution in Western capitals. Although the U.K. under Boris Johnson wasn’t deterred, NATO has seemed unwilling to fulfill its commitment to restore Ukraine’s full sovereignty and territorial integrity.
> >
> > This hesitancy is a product of successful deterrence by the Kremlin, not American strategic necessity. There is no evidence that Russia has the conventional military capability to threaten NATO or the will to launch a nuclear strike. Despite Moscow’s repeated nuclear threats, the intelligence community has affirmed in congressional testimony that Russia’s nuclear capabilities haven’t once shifted toward operational status. Mr. Putin has been bluffing. That could change, but succumbing to bluffs gives him exactly what he wants cost-free.
> >
> > The administration’s timid, haphazard approach to aid has fractured U.S. public support. Mr. Biden has compounded this problem with his insistence that the war is about Wilsonian abstractions of democracy vs. authoritarianism. Wilsonian principles have never motivated U.S. majorities, even when preached by the genuine article. There are compelling arguments that assisting Ukraine serves our strategic interest, but the president isn’t making them. He and Donald Trump both undercut Republican support for aid.
> >
> > The West—particularly Washington—also needs to rethink sanctions policy radically. Theories about price caps on Russian oil have failed, and Western sanctions generally remain piecemeal and seriously underenforced. These defects aren’t confined to the Ukraine conflict and should prompt NATO institutionally to review how it conducts enforcement. Proclaiming sanctions is great PR, but enforcement is hard, tedious and necessarily done clandestinely where possible. The U.S. and its allies need a massive overhaul and upgrade of our sanction-enforcement instruments, procedures and personnel.
> >
> > The White House and NATO also both need to take more seriously China’s role in Ukraine. The West should be imposing sanctions directly on Beijing given China’s enormous support to Moscow, including hydrocarbon purchases, laundering of Russian financial transactions, and supplying of dual use and nonlethal military equipment. Beijing has denied providing lethal assistance, but a recent U.S. intelligence report said that Chinese companies have shipped Russian defense firms parts for fighter jets as well as drones.
> >
> > It’s also important that the West see through any Chinese ploy to “mediate” the conflict. Such an offer from Beijing would undoubtedly seem positive to some who don’t yet appreciate the long-term threat China poses. And because the White House is obsessed with achieving climate-change agreements with Beijing, it would find European Union blandishments to appease China dangerously appealing.
> >
> > China’s involvement makes it important that Washington actively involve key Indo-Pacific allies in the Biden administration’s new strategy on Ukraine. Mr. Biden’s impending trilateral summit with Japan and South Korea provides an excellent opportunity for such engagement, but much more is necessary. While some NATO members may resist including “outsiders,” this is the moment for the alliance to thrash out the global nature of the threat we all face from the rising China-Russia axis. Ukraine is precisely the kind of crisis that requires global collaboration.
> >
> > More Ukrainian military progress may come as the offensive continues, but it’s vital that the Biden administration start formulating a new strategy. The White House must make midcourse corrections to its strategic errors of the past 18 months if it’s to bolster domestic U.S. support for Ukraine and revitalize and broaden the anti-Russia coalition. It’s time to get moving.
> >
> > https://www.wsj.com/articles/blame-bidens-hesitancy-for-stalling-ukraines-offensive-nato-aid-weapons-military-war-fight-europe-national-security-a62d9899

Re: Bolton wini Bidena

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Subject: Re: Bolton wini Bidena
From: petre...@gmail.com (Piotr)
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 by: Piotr - Sat, 19 Aug 2023 01:09 UTC

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 8:08:54 AM UTC-2:30, Basia wrote:
> John Bolton to byly Podsekretarz Stanu oraz
> Ambassador do ONZ (za Prezydenta W. Busha)
> oraz doradca do spraw bezpieczeństwa narodowego
> (za Donalda Trumpa). W ponizszym artykule wini
> Jor Bidena za niepowodzenie Ukrainy w odparciu
> inwazji Rosji.
>
> Blame Biden’s Hesitancy for Stalling Ukraine’s Offensive
> Paralyzed by fear of Russian escalation, the administration has sought only to stave off defeat.

"Hesitancy" w poparciu Ukrainy lepsze od otwartego wchodzenia Rosji w dupe - ten sam Bolton
o prezydencie, o ktorym wie duzo wiecej:
" Bolton said he had to convince Trump not to quit NATO in the middle of a 2018 summit"

"John Bolton: Trump Is a Putin-Loving Moron Who Thought Finland Was Part of Russia
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/03/john-bolton-donald-trump-ukraine-finland-russia

Newsmax : "I’m surprised you don’t think that he would’ve handled this better than Joe Biden."

Bolton: "No, he did not. He did not. We didn’t sanction Nord Stream 2…we should have, we should have brought the project to an end. We did impose sanctions on Russian oligarchs and several others because of their sales of S-400 antiaircraft systems to other countries. But in almost every case, the sanctions were imposed with Trump complaining about it saying we were being too hard. The fact is that he barely knew where Ukraine was.. He once asked John Kelly, his second chief of staff, if Finland were a part of Russia. It is just not accurate to say that Trump’s behavior somehow deterred the Russians. I think the evidence is that Russia didn’t feel that their military was ready."
[...]
Trump has just been praising Putin’s savvy ["genius" for recognizing the "independence" of Donietsk and Lugansk "republics") and calling the U..S. a “stupid country.” And when he was in office?

- Trump publicly sided with Putin over his own intelligence agencies re: 2016 election meddling;
- Trump wanted Ukraine investigated for alleged election meddling, a line straight out of the Kremlin’s playbook;
- Trump talked to Putin—who no doubt struggled to catch his breath from laughing—about forming a “cybersecurity unit” with Russia to combat “election hacking” (!);
- Trump pressed for Russia to be let back in an expanded G7, despite being kicked out for annexing Crimea;
- Trump excused killings by Putin, saying the U.S. is just as bad;
- Trump leaked classified information from another country to Russia;
- Trump allowed Russia to expand its influence in Syria [ and by betraying their Kurds to Turkey - forced them into the arms of Russia and Assad -PT]
- Trump defended the Soviet Union’s 1979 invasion of Afghanistan, saying Russia was “right to be there,”

Trump o Ukrainie:
- “I went in yesterday and there was a television screen [ with Russian tanks rolling into the separatist "republics"]: I said, ‘This is GENIUS.’
- "How smart is that? " ," Here’s a guy who’s very savvy, I know him very well. Very, very well.”
And then for the Russian invasion of Ukraine blamed ...not Russia, but ... the US:
-“This White House is stating that this is an ‘invasion.’ That’s a strong word."
- "Trump blames US for 'almost forcing' Putin to invade Ukraine"

Trump Jr, o Zelenskim "who asked the US for weapons and ammunition, without which he can't win against Russia:
“Zelensky is basically an ungrateful international welfare queen.”

Or the admirers of Trump from Fox News, like their leading starlet then: Tucker Carlson:
- " The government of someplace called Ukraine is demanding that we fight the Russian army on their behalf."
- “It may be worth asking yourself, since it is getting pretty serious, what is this really about? Why do I hate Putin so much? Has Putin ever called me a racist? Has he threatened to get me fired for disagreeing with him?”
- "Some uppity foreigner in a T-shirt demanding money for his ‘critical economic needs’? We have critical economic needs too, buddy. Who are you, troll? Go away!”
- "Why shouldn’t I root for Russians? Because I am!”

Re: Bolton wini Bidena

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Subject: Re: Bolton wini Bidena
From: petre...@gmail.com (Piotr)
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 by: Piotr - Sat, 19 Aug 2023 01:30 UTC

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 9:44:57 PM UTC-2:30, Basia wrote:
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 3:38:54 AM UTC-7, Basia wrote:
>
> > John Bolton to byly Podsekretarz Stanu oraz
> > Ambassador do ONZ (za Prezydenta W. Busha)
> > oraz doradca do spraw bezpieczeństwa narodowego
> > (za Donalda Trumpa). W ponizszym artykule wini
> > Jor Bidena za niepowodzenie Ukrainy w odparciu
> > inwazji Rosji.
> Sadze ze Bolton moze podejrzewac ze wojna
> na Ukrainie ma w zamiarze fizyczne przetrzebienie
> Ukraincow-Banderowcow a nie pokonanie Rosji.
> Wojna do ostatniego Ukrainca nie zas wygrana Ukrainy.

"Wojna do ostatniego Ukrainca " to teza propagandy moskiewskiej, nie Boltona.

A "sady" Basia, mowia tylko o jakosci glowy sadzacego:
1. czemu "Stalling Ukraine’s Offensive" mialoby byc ZLE, jesli prawdziwym planem USA jest
odkryte przez Edka -... przetrzebienie pro-Zachodnich Ukraincow ?
2. co Biden mialby uzyskac z "fizycznego przetrzebienia" proZachodnich Ukraincow?
3. czemu Bolton NIE UZASADNIA swojej krytyki Bidena DUZO bardziej obciazajaca checia przetrzebienia
pro-Zachodnich Ukraincow, a tylko ... nadmierna ostroznoscia by nie wciagnac USA w wojne.

Za dlugo sie kisil Pan w domu z obawy przed szczepionkami, panie Edku. To widac.
==Piotr

Re: Bolton wini Bidena

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Subject: Re: Bolton wini Bidena
From: abjj...@sbcglobal.net (Basia)
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 by: Basia - Sat, 19 Aug 2023 01:55 UTC

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 6:30:25 PM UTC-7, Piotr wrote:
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 9:44:57 PM UTC-2:30, Basia wrote:
> > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 3:38:54 AM UTC-7, Basia wrote:
> >
> > > John Bolton to byly Podsekretarz Stanu oraz
> > > Ambassador do ONZ (za Prezydenta W. Busha)
> > > oraz doradca do spraw bezpieczeństwa narodowego
> > > (za Donalda Trumpa). W ponizszym artykule wini
> > > Jor Bidena za niepowodzenie Ukrainy w odparciu
> > > inwazji Rosji.
> > Sadze ze Bolton moze podejrzewac ze wojna
> > na Ukrainie ma w zamiarze fizyczne przetrzebienie
> > Ukraincow-Banderowcow a nie pokonanie Rosji.
> > Wojna do ostatniego Ukrainca nie zas wygrana Ukrainy.
> "Wojna do ostatniego Ukrainca " to teza propagandy moskiewskiej, nie Boltona.
>
> A "sady" Basia, mowia tylko o jakosci glowy sadzacego:
> 1. czemu "Stalling Ukraine’s Offensive" mialoby byc ZLE, jesli prawdziwym planem USA jest
> odkryte przez Edka -... przetrzebienie pro-Zachodnich Ukraincow ?
> 2. co Biden mialby uzyskac z "fizycznego przetrzebienia" proZachodnich Ukraincow?
> 3. czemu Bolton NIE UZASADNIA swojej krytyki Bidena DUZO bardziej obciazajaca checia przetrzebienia
> pro-Zachodnich Ukraincow, a tylko ... nadmierna ostroznoscia by nie wciagnac USA w wojne.
>
> Za dlugo sie kisil Pan w domu z obawy przed szczepionkami, panie Edku. To widac.
> ===
> Piotr

A ponizej conieco o wartosc Piotro Trelowej
pisaniny, ...jest wkurwiony, prowokuje a moze
chce sie koniecznie wykazac unikalnoscia.
Byc moze ktos tez placi bo nie mozna wykluczyc
ze za publicystyke pobieral czy pobiera jakies
korzysci materialne.

Szkoda czasu na odpowiedz.

Piotr Trela:

"...my writing does not have a very noble motivation.
I write when somebody makes me angry. Thus my
letters are intentionally provocative... ."

"Last year I wrote a rude polemics in response to a
letter from a zealous feminist ("Is Blair a man?").
Feminists are known to be dangerous antagonists... ."

"Later I spent many hours preparing another
contribution- "Support this war." At this time
the Gazette carried almost exclusively pro-peace
stories, there were peace marches in Halifax
and peace actions at Dal. Then, nobody foresaw
the pro-war fashion ascending in the U.S. Thus
my article would have been quite unique at the
time. Yet I also could face the anger of peace
activists, so the Gazette protected me again.
After waiting a week I was told that my article
would be in the following issue. It wasn't."

Mother Gazette
https://dalspace.library.dal.ca/bitstream/handle/10222/52130/dalhousiegazette_volume124_issue4_september_26_1991.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

Basia (Ona/Jej)

Re: Bolton wini Bidena

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Subject: Re: Bolton wini Bidena
From: jfig...@gmail.com (Hreczecha)
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 by: Hreczecha - Sat, 19 Aug 2023 02:47 UTC

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 5:38:54 AM UTC-5, Basia wrote:
> John Bolton to byly Podsekretarz Stanu oraz
> Ambassador do ONZ (za Prezydenta W. Busha)
> oraz doradca do spraw bezpieczeństwa narodowego
> (za Donalda Trumpa). W ponizszym artykule wini
> Jor Bidena za niepowodzenie Ukrainy w odparciu
> inwazji Rosji.
>
> Blame Biden’s Hesitancy for Stalling Ukraine’s Offensive
>
> Paralyzed by fear of Russian escalation, the administration has sought only to stave off defeat.
>
> Ukraine’s spring offensive, now well into the summer, isn’t making the headway some proponents had forecast. The Ukrainians aren’t lacking in bravery or tenacity, and they’ve achieved eye-catching successes, such as the recent crippling of Russia’s Olenegorsky Gornyak, a roll-on/roll-off landing ship. Nevertheless, it should be a wake-up call for Washington that its strategy needs reformulating.
>
> The solution isn’t a cease-fire and negotiation, as some in the West advocate. If Vladimir Putin were to agree to it, he would do so at a time of his choosing, not ours. He will likely propose a cease-fire if Moscow contains Kyiv’s attacks by early autumn, with the goal of trying to win through negotiations what Russia’s armed forces have failed to take on the battlefield. Accepting this offer would lead to Ukraine’s de facto partition—an unacceptable proposition for Kyiv and its Eastern European neighbors.
>
> Far from being inevitable, the Ukrainians’ inability to achieve major advances is the natural result of a U.S. strategy aimed only at staving off Russian conquest. Instead, President Biden needs to start vigorously working toward Ukrainian victory.
>
> Ukraine’s offensive failures and Russia’s defensive successes share a common cause: the slow, faltering, nonstrategic supply of military assistance by the West. The serial debates over whether to supply this or that weapons system, the perpetual fear that Russia will escalate to war against the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, and occasional Kremlin nuclear saber-rattling have instilled a paralyzing caution in Western capitals. Although the U.K. under Boris Johnson wasn’t deterred, NATO has seemed unwilling to fulfill its commitment to restore Ukraine’s full sovereignty and territorial integrity.
>
> This hesitancy is a product of successful deterrence by the Kremlin, not American strategic necessity. There is no evidence that Russia has the conventional military capability to threaten NATO or the will to launch a nuclear strike. Despite Moscow’s repeated nuclear threats, the intelligence community has affirmed in congressional testimony that Russia’s nuclear capabilities haven’t once shifted toward operational status. Mr. Putin has been bluffing. That could change, but succumbing to bluffs gives him exactly what he wants cost-free.
>
> The administration’s timid, haphazard approach to aid has fractured U.S. public support. Mr. Biden has compounded this problem with his insistence that the war is about Wilsonian abstractions of democracy vs. authoritarianism. Wilsonian principles have never motivated U.S. majorities, even when preached by the genuine article. There are compelling arguments that assisting Ukraine serves our strategic interest, but the president isn’t making them. He and Donald Trump both undercut Republican support for aid.
>
> The West—particularly Washington—also needs to rethink sanctions policy radically. Theories about price caps on Russian oil have failed, and Western sanctions generally remain piecemeal and seriously underenforced. These defects aren’t confined to the Ukraine conflict and should prompt NATO institutionally to review how it conducts enforcement. Proclaiming sanctions is great PR, but enforcement is hard, tedious and necessarily done clandestinely where possible. The U.S. and its allies need a massive overhaul and upgrade of our sanction-enforcement instruments, procedures and personnel.
>
> The White House and NATO also both need to take more seriously China’s role in Ukraine. The West should be imposing sanctions directly on Beijing given China’s enormous support to Moscow, including hydrocarbon purchases, laundering of Russian financial transactions, and supplying of dual use and nonlethal military equipment. Beijing has denied providing lethal assistance, but a recent U.S. intelligence report said that Chinese companies have shipped Russian defense firms parts for fighter jets as well as drones.
>
> It’s also important that the West see through any Chinese ploy to “mediate” the conflict. Such an offer from Beijing would undoubtedly seem positive to some who don’t yet appreciate the long-term threat China poses. And because the White House is obsessed with achieving climate-change agreements with Beijing, it would find European Union blandishments to appease China dangerously appealing.
>
> China’s involvement makes it important that Washington actively involve key Indo-Pacific allies in the Biden administration’s new strategy on Ukraine. Mr. Biden’s impending trilateral summit with Japan and South Korea provides an excellent opportunity for such engagement, but much more is necessary. While some NATO members may resist including “outsiders,” this is the moment for the alliance to thrash out the global nature of the threat we all face from the rising China-Russia axis. Ukraine is precisely the kind of crisis that requires global collaboration.
>
> More Ukrainian military progress may come as the offensive continues, but it’s vital that the Biden administration start formulating a new strategy. The White House must make midcourse corrections to its strategic errors of the past 18 months if it’s to bolster domestic U.S. support for Ukraine and revitalize and broaden the anti-Russia coalition. It’s time to get moving.
>
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/blame-bidens-hesitancy-for-stalling-ukraines-offensive-nato-aid-weapons-military-war-fight-europe-national-security-a62d9899

Re: Bolton wini Bidena

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 by: Hreczecha - Sat, 19 Aug 2023 02:50 UTC

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 5:38:54 AM UTC-5, Basia wrote:
> John Bolton to byly Podsekretarz Stanu oraz
> Ambassador do ONZ (za Prezydenta W. Busha)
> oraz doradca do spraw bezpieczeństwa narodowego
> (za Donalda Trumpa). W ponizszym artykule wini
> Jor Bidena za niepowodzenie Ukrainy w odparciu
> inwazji Rosji.
>
> Blame Biden’s Hesitancy for Stalling Ukraine’s Offensive
>
> Paralyzed by fear of Russian escalation, the administration has sought only to stave off defeat.
>
> Ukraine’s spring offensive, now well into the summer, isn’t making the headway some proponents had forecast. The Ukrainians aren’t lacking in bravery or tenacity, and they’ve achieved eye-catching successes, such as the recent crippling of Russia’s Olenegorsky Gornyak, a roll-on/roll-off landing ship. Nevertheless, it should be a wake-up call for Washington that its strategy needs reformulating.
>
> The solution isn’t a cease-fire and negotiation, as some in the West advocate. If Vladimir Putin were to agree to it, he would do so at a time of his choosing, not ours. He will likely propose a cease-fire if Moscow contains Kyiv’s attacks by early autumn, with the goal of trying to win through negotiations what Russia’s armed forces have failed to take on the battlefield. Accepting this offer would lead to Ukraine’s de facto partition—an unacceptable proposition for Kyiv and its Eastern European neighbors.
>
> Far from being inevitable, the Ukrainians’ inability to achieve major advances is the natural result of a U.S. strategy aimed only at staving off Russian conquest. Instead, President Biden needs to start vigorously working toward Ukrainian victory.
>
> Ukraine’s offensive failures and Russia’s defensive successes share a common cause: the slow, faltering, nonstrategic supply of military assistance by the West. The serial debates over whether to supply this or that weapons system, the perpetual fear that Russia will escalate to war against the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, and occasional Kremlin nuclear saber-rattling have instilled a paralyzing caution in Western capitals. Although the U.K. under Boris Johnson wasn’t deterred, NATO has seemed unwilling to fulfill its commitment to restore Ukraine’s full sovereignty and territorial integrity.
>
> This hesitancy is a product of successful deterrence by the Kremlin, not American strategic necessity. There is no evidence that Russia has the conventional military capability to threaten NATO or the will to launch a nuclear strike. Despite Moscow’s repeated nuclear threats, the intelligence community has affirmed in congressional testimony that Russia’s nuclear capabilities haven’t once shifted toward operational status. Mr. Putin has been bluffing. That could change, but succumbing to bluffs gives him exactly what he wants cost-free.
>
> The administration’s timid, haphazard approach to aid has fractured U.S. public support. Mr. Biden has compounded this problem with his insistence that the war is about Wilsonian abstractions of democracy vs. authoritarianism. Wilsonian principles have never motivated U.S. majorities, even when preached by the genuine article. There are compelling arguments that assisting Ukraine serves our strategic interest, but the president isn’t making them. He and Donald Trump both undercut Republican support for aid.
>
> The West—particularly Washington—also needs to rethink sanctions policy radically. Theories about price caps on Russian oil have failed, and Western sanctions generally remain piecemeal and seriously underenforced. These defects aren’t confined to the Ukraine conflict and should prompt NATO institutionally to review how it conducts enforcement. Proclaiming sanctions is great PR, but enforcement is hard, tedious and necessarily done clandestinely where possible. The U.S. and its allies need a massive overhaul and upgrade of our sanction-enforcement instruments, procedures and personnel.
>
> The White House and NATO also both need to take more seriously China’s role in Ukraine. The West should be imposing sanctions directly on Beijing given China’s enormous support to Moscow, including hydrocarbon purchases, laundering of Russian financial transactions, and supplying of dual use and nonlethal military equipment. Beijing has denied providing lethal assistance, but a recent U.S. intelligence report said that Chinese companies have shipped Russian defense firms parts for fighter jets as well as drones.
>
> It’s also important that the West see through any Chinese ploy to “mediate” the conflict. Such an offer from Beijing would undoubtedly seem positive to some who don’t yet appreciate the long-term threat China poses. And because the White House is obsessed with achieving climate-change agreements with Beijing, it would find European Union blandishments to appease China dangerously appealing.
>
> China’s involvement makes it important that Washington actively involve key Indo-Pacific allies in the Biden administration’s new strategy on Ukraine. Mr. Biden’s impending trilateral summit with Japan and South Korea provides an excellent opportunity for such engagement, but much more is necessary. While some NATO members may resist including “outsiders,” this is the moment for the alliance to thrash out the global nature of the threat we all face from the rising China-Russia axis. Ukraine is precisely the kind of crisis that requires global collaboration.
>
> More Ukrainian military progress may come as the offensive continues, but it’s vital that the Biden administration start formulating a new strategy. The White House must make midcourse corrections to its strategic errors of the past 18 months if it’s to bolster domestic U.S. support for Ukraine and revitalize and broaden the anti-Russia coalition. It’s time to get moving.
>
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/blame-bidens-hesitancy-for-stalling-ukraines-offensive-nato-aid-weapons-military-war-fight-europe-national-security-a62d9899
"Vigorously..." po naszemu energicznie. Ale przydalyby sie konkrety. Bo fachowcy mowie, ze ne chodzi o to, co Ukraine dostaje. ale co z tym robi. To znalazlem w Polityce:
https://www.polityka.pl/tygodnikpolityka/swiat/2223758,1,539-dzien-wojny-jest-problem-dlaczego-zachodni-sprzet-nie-pomaga-ukraincom.read?src=mt

Re: Bolton wini Bidena

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Subject: Re: Bolton wini Bidena
From: petre...@gmail.com (Piotr)
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 by: Piotr - Sat, 19 Aug 2023 03:45 UTC

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 11:25:46 PM UTC-2:30, Basia wrote:
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 6:30:25 PM UTC-7, Piotr wrote:
> > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 9:44:57 PM UTC-2:30, Basia wrote:
> > > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 3:38:54 AM UTC-7, Basia wrote:
> > >
> > > > John Bolton to byly Podsekretarz Stanu oraz
> > > > Ambassador do ONZ (za Prezydenta W. Busha)
> > > > oraz doradca do spraw bezpieczeństwa narodowego
> > > > (za Donalda Trumpa). W ponizszym artykule wini
> > > > Jor Bidena za niepowodzenie Ukrainy w odparciu
> > > > inwazji Rosji.
> > > Sadze ze Bolton moze podejrzewac ze wojna
> > > na Ukrainie ma w zamiarze fizyczne przetrzebienie
> > > Ukraincow-Banderowcow a nie pokonanie Rosji.
> > > Wojna do ostatniego Ukrainca nie zas wygrana Ukrainy.
> > "Wojna do ostatniego Ukrainca " to teza propagandy moskiewskiej, nie Boltona.
> >
> > A "sady" Basia, mowia tylko o jakosci glowy sadzacego:
> > 1. czemu "Stalling Ukraine’s Offensive" mialoby byc ZLE, jesli prawdziwym planem USA jest
> > odkryte przez Edka -... przetrzebienie pro-Zachodnich Ukraincow ?
> > 2. co Biden mialby uzyskac z "fizycznego przetrzebienia" proZachodnich Ukraincow?
> > 3. czemu Bolton NIE UZASADNIA swojej krytyki Bidena DUZO bardziej obciazajaca checia przetrzebienia
> > pro-Zachodnich Ukraincow, a tylko ... nadmierna ostroznoscia by nie wciagnac USA w wojne.
> >
> > Za dlugo sie kisil Pan w domu z obawy przed szczepionkami, panie Edku. To widac.
> > ===
> > Piotr
> A ponizej conieco o wartosc Piotro Trelowej pisaniny, ...jest wkurwiony,

Wkurwiony ?;-) Porsze sprawdzic w slowniku slowa: "self-deprecating irony". Koncept Panu najwyrazniej
nieznany

> prowokuje a moze chce sie koniecznie wykazac unikalnoscia. Byc moze ktos tez placi bo nie mozna wykluczyc
> ze za publicystyke pobieral czy pobiera jakies korzysci materialne.

tak panie Zwolan - za moje okazyjne listy do redakcji studenckiej gazetki "pobieralem korzysci materialne".
Tylko intelekt Panskiego kalibru mogl na to wpasc!

No ale czego sie nie zrobi zeby odwrocic uwage od swoich bredni:
>"Sadze ze Bolton moze podejrzewac ze wojna na Ukrainie ma w zamiarze fizyczne przetrzebienie
>Ukraincow-Banderowcow a nie pokonanie Rosji. Wojna do ostatniego Ukrainca nie zas wygrana Ukrainy.
> Basia

Nic dziwnego ze wstydzi sie Pan autorstwa wlasnych slow. Ja nie musze:

Piotr Trela: "Wojna do ostatniego Ukrainca " to teza propagandy moskiewskiej, nie Boltona.
A "sady" Basia, mowia tylko o jakosci glowy sadzacego:
1. czemu "Stalling Ukraine’s Offensive" mialoby byc ZLE, jesli prawdziwym planem USA jest
odkryte przez Edka -... przetrzebienie pro-Zachodnich Ukraincow ?
2. co Biden mialby uzyskac z "fizycznego przetrzebienia" proZachodnich Ukraincow?
3. czemu Bolton NIE UZASADNIA swojej krytyki Bidena DUZO bardziej obciazajaca checia przetrzebienia
pro-Zachodnich Ukraincow, a tylko ... nadmierna ostroznoscia by nie wciagnac USA w wojne. "
Piotr
== I nie wstydze sie, ze po krotkim czasie w Kanadzie pisalem lepiej niz Pan po dekadach zycia tutaj

> Piotr Trela:
>
> "...my writing does not have a very noble motivation.
> I write when somebody makes me angry. Thus my letters are intentionally provocative... ."
cos tu bylo, ale wycial?

> "Last year I wrote a rude polemics in response to a letter from a zealous feminist ("Is Blair a man?").
> Feminists are known to be dangerous antagonists... ."
cos tu bylo, ale wycial?

> "Later I spent many hours preparing another contribution- "Support this war." At this time
> the Gazette carried almost exclusively pro-peace stories, there were peace marches in Halifax
> and peace actions at Dal. Then, nobody foresaw the pro-war fashion ascending in the U.S. Thus
> my article would have been quite unique at the time. Yet I also could face the anger of peace
> activists, so the Gazette protected me again. After waiting a week I was told that my article
> would be in the following issue. It wasn't."

Z tych wyrywkow to nawet ja nie wiedzialbym o czym byl ten tekst ... ;-)
To moze latwiej bedzie podejsc z drugiej strony - Zwolan mysli, ze jaka teze udowodnil tymi wycinankami ?

>https://dalspace.library.dal.ca/bitstream/handle/10222/52130/dalhousiegazette_volume124_issue4_september_26_1991.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

Ja za tym (niepowycinanym) artykulem stoje. Czy "Basia" stoi za swoimi tekstami? Jak powyzsze:

"Sadze ze Bolton moze podejrzewac ze wojna na Ukrainie ma w zamiarze fizyczne przetrzebienie
Ukraincow-Banderowcow a nie pokonanie Rosji. Wojna do ostatniego Ukrainca nie zas wygrana Ukrainy.
Ona/Jej Basia

albo wczesniejszy blyskotliwa, choc ... ehem, niezbyt oczywista - biorac pod uwage Ona/Jej deklarowana plec, riposta:

"Jakby nie bylo, suck my dick, Bobrowski."
Basia (Ona/Jej)

Re: Bolton wini Bidena

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Subject: Re: Bolton wini Bidena
From: abjj...@sbcglobal.net (Basia)
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 by: Basia - Sat, 19 Aug 2023 04:20 UTC

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 7:50:22 PM UTC-7, Hreczecha wrote:
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 5:38:54 AM UTC-5, Basia wrote:
>
> > https://www.wsj.com/articles/blame-bidens-hesitancy-for-stalling-ukraines-offensive-nato-aid-weapons-military-war-fight-europe-national-security-a62d9899
>
> "Vigorously..." po naszemu energicznie. Ale przydalyby sie konkrety. Bo fachowcy mowie, ze ne chodzi o to, co Ukraine dostaje. ale co z tym robi. To znalazlem w Polityce:
> https://www.polityka.pl/tygodnikpolityka/swiat/2223758,1,539-dzien-wojny-jest-problem-dlaczego-zachodni-sprzet-nie-pomaga-ukraincom.read?src=mt

Nie mam subskrypcji. Pokazuje mi tylko
dwa pierwsze paragrafy. Nie moge wiele
skomentowac. Niewiem jak w Polsce
ale w USA tzw. "fair use" pozwala
zacytowac w calosi tekst z podaniem
zrodla czy zastrzezeniem praw autorskich
tzw. 'copyrightu.'

Jestem sklonna uwierzyc w teze Boltona
ze Biden umyslnie nie wysyla na Ukraine
wystarczajacej ilosci broni tak by Ukraina
prowadzila wojne ale by jej nie wygrala
a przynajmniej nie za szybko jezeli w ogole.

Wpisywalo by sie to doskonale w polityke
oslabiania Rosji. Jak najdluzsza duracja
wojny to tez maksymalizacja magnitudy
rozpizdziachy i strat czyli oslabienia Rosji,

....teza walki "do ostatniego Ukrainca."

Basia (Ona/Jej)

Re: Bolton wini Bidena

<7e58cda1-13c0-4fb7-a82a-a03fa6712550n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Bolton wini Bidena
From: jfig...@gmail.com (Hreczecha)
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 by: Hreczecha - Sat, 19 Aug 2023 16:55 UTC

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 11:20:54 PM UTC-5, Basia wrote:
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 7:50:22 PM UTC-7, Hreczecha wrote:
> > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 5:38:54 AM UTC-5, Basia wrote:
> >
> > > https://www.wsj.com/articles/blame-bidens-hesitancy-for-stalling-ukraines-offensive-nato-aid-weapons-military-war-fight-europe-national-security-a62d9899
> >
> > "Vigorously..." po naszemu energicznie. Ale przydalyby sie konkrety. Bo fachowcy mowie, ze ne chodzi o to, co Ukraine dostaje. ale co z tym robi. To znalazlem w Polityce:
> > https://www.polityka.pl/tygodnikpolityka/swiat/2223758,1,539-dzien-wojny-jest-problem-dlaczego-zachodni-sprzet-nie-pomaga-ukraincom.read?src=mt
> Nie mam subskrypcji. Pokazuje mi tylko
> dwa pierwsze paragrafy. Nie moge wiele
> skomentowac. Niewiem jak w Polsce
> ale w USA tzw. "fair use" pozwala
> zacytowac w calosi tekst z podaniem
> zrodla czy zastrzezeniem praw autorskich
> tzw. 'copyrightu.'
>
> Jestem sklonna uwierzyc w teze Boltona
> ze Biden umyslnie nie wysyla na Ukraine
> wystarczajacej ilosci broni tak by Ukraina
> prowadzila wojne ale by jej nie wygrala
> a przynajmniej nie za szybko jezeli w ogole.
>
> Wpisywalo by sie to doskonale w polityke
> oslabiania Rosji. Jak najdluzsza duracja
> wojny to tez maksymalizacja magnitudy
> rozpizdziachy i strat czyli oslabienia Rosji,
>
> ...teza walki "do ostatniego Ukrainca."
>
> Basia (Ona/Jej)
Rozumiem. Ja prenumeruje Polityke. W skrocie chodzi o to, ze ukrainscy zolnierze nauczyli sie poslugiwac bronia dostarczana przez NATO. Ale skuteczne poslugiweanie sie ta bronia wymaga taktyki, ktora bardzo sie rozni od tej, w ktorej Ukraincy sa przeszkoleni. A opanowanie nowej taktyki je czasochlonne.

Re: Bolton wini Bidena

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Subject: Re: Bolton wini Bidena
From: petre...@gmail.com (Piotr)
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 by: Piotr - Sat, 19 Aug 2023 19:16 UTC

On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 1:50:54 AM UTC-2:30, Basia wrote:
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 7:50:22 PM UTC-7, Hreczecha wrote:
> Wpisywalo by sie to doskonale w polityke oslabiania Rosji. Jak najdluzsza duracja
> wojny to tez maksymalizacja magnitudy

Stworzyl Pan niechcaco wlasnie doskonale polskawe slowo na opis swoich pogladow.
Pan "Basia" i jego ... "duracja ". ;-)

==Piotr

Re: Bolton wini Bidena

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Subject: Re: Bolton wini Bidena
From: cyrylmet...@gmail.com (Russet Bulba)
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 by: Russet Bulba - Sat, 19 Aug 2023 19:36 UTC

On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 1:55:17 PM UTC-3, Hreczecha wrote:
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 11:20:54 PM UTC-5, Basia wrote:
> > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 7:50:22 PM UTC-7, Hreczecha wrote:
> > > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 5:38:54 AM UTC-5, Basia wrote:
> > >
> > > > https://www.wsj.com/articles/blame-bidens-hesitancy-for-stalling-ukraines-offensive-nato-aid-weapons-military-war-fight-europe-national-security-a62d9899
> > >
> > > "Vigorously..." po naszemu energicznie. Ale przydalyby sie konkrety. Bo fachowcy mowie, ze ne chodzi o to, co Ukraine dostaje. ale co z tym robi.. To znalazlem w Polityce:
> > > https://www.polityka.pl/tygodnikpolityka/swiat/2223758,1,539-dzien-wojny-jest-problem-dlaczego-zachodni-sprzet-nie-pomaga-ukraincom.read?src=mt
> > Nie mam subskrypcji. Pokazuje mi tylko
> > dwa pierwsze paragrafy. Nie moge wiele
> > skomentowac. Niewiem jak w Polsce
> > ale w USA tzw. "fair use" pozwala
> > zacytowac w calosi tekst z podaniem
> > zrodla czy zastrzezeniem praw autorskich
> > tzw. 'copyrightu.'
> >
> > Jestem sklonna uwierzyc w teze Boltona
> > ze Biden umyslnie nie wysyla na Ukraine
> > wystarczajacej ilosci broni tak by Ukraina
> > prowadzila wojne ale by jej nie wygrala
> > a przynajmniej nie za szybko jezeli w ogole.
> >
> > Wpisywalo by sie to doskonale w polityke
> > oslabiania Rosji. Jak najdluzsza duracja
> > wojny to tez maksymalizacja magnitudy
> > rozpizdziachy i strat czyli oslabienia Rosji,
> >
> > ...teza walki "do ostatniego Ukrainca."
> >
> > Basia (Ona/Jej)
> Rozumiem. Ja prenumeruje Polityke. W skrocie chodzi o to, ze ukrainscy zolnierze nauczyli sie poslugiwac bronia dostarczana przez NATO. Ale skuteczne poslugiweanie sie ta bronia wymaga taktyki, ktora bardzo sie rozni od tej, w ktorej Ukraincy sa przeszkoleni. A opanowanie nowej taktyki je czasochlonne.

Jest raczej oczywistym iz w obecnej chwili Ukraina nie posiada dostatecznego potencjalu ofensywnego, aby wypchnac Rosje calkowicie ze swoich terenow. I nie posiada go z kilku wzgledow a jednym z nich jest niewystarczajaca ilosc i typy uzbrojenia niezbednego do tego celu nie mowiac juz o szkoleniu i ilosci zasobow ludzkich. Taka forma pomocy byla w zalozeniu Zachodu od poczatku i skad te marzenia o latwym zwyciestwie? Jest to obecnie statyczna wojna na wyczerpanie lecz pytaniem jest w jakim momencie mozna osiagnac punkt zwrotny? Rosja z uwagi na swoja defensywna strategie w chwili obecnej moze sie obejsc zdecydowanie mniejszymi srodkami niz Ukraina.

Re: Bolton wini Bidena

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Subject: Re: Bolton wini Bidena
From: abjj...@sbcglobal.net (Basia)
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 by: Basia - Sat, 19 Aug 2023 22:53 UTC

On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 9:55:17 AM UTC-7, Hreczecha wrote:
> On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 11:20:54 PM UTC-5, Basia wrote:
> > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 7:50:22 PM UTC-7, Hreczecha wrote:
> > > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 5:38:54 AM UTC-5, Basia wrote:
> > >
> > > > https://www.wsj.com/articles/blame-bidens-hesitancy-for-stalling-ukraines-offensive-nato-aid-weapons-military-war-fight-europe-national-security-a62d9899
> > >
> > > "Vigorously..." po naszemu energicznie. Ale przydalyby sie konkrety. Bo fachowcy mowie, ze ne chodzi o to, co Ukraine dostaje. ale co z tym robi.. To znalazlem w Polityce:
> > > https://www.polityka.pl/tygodnikpolityka/swiat/2223758,1,539-dzien-wojny-jest-problem-dlaczego-zachodni-sprzet-nie-pomaga-ukraincom.read?src=mt
> > Nie mam subskrypcji. Pokazuje mi tylko
> > dwa pierwsze paragrafy. Nie moge wiele
> > skomentowac. Niewiem jak w Polsce
> > ale w USA tzw. "fair use" pozwala
> > zacytowac w calosi tekst z podaniem
> > zrodla czy zastrzezeniem praw autorskich
> > tzw. 'copyrightu.'
> >
> > Jestem sklonna uwierzyc w teze Boltona
> > ze Biden umyslnie nie wysyla na Ukraine
> > wystarczajacej ilosci broni tak by Ukraina
> > prowadzila wojne ale by jej nie wygrala
> > a przynajmniej nie za szybko jezeli w ogole.
> >
> > Wpisywalo by sie to doskonale w polityke
> > oslabiania Rosji. Jak najdluzsza duracja
> > wojny to tez maksymalizacja magnitudy
> > rozpizdziachy i strat czyli oslabienia Rosji,
> >
> > ...teza walki "do ostatniego Ukrainca."
> >
> > Basia (Ona/Jej)
>
> Rozumiem. Ja prenumeruje Polityke. W skrocie chodzi o to, ze ukrainscy zolnierze nauczyli sie poslugiwac bronia dostarczana przez NATO. Ale skuteczne poslugiweanie sie ta bronia wymaga taktyki, ktora bardzo sie rozni od tej, w ktorej Ukraincy sa przeszkoleni. A opanowanie nowej taktyki je czasochlonne.

Spotkalam sie z opinia ze przeszkolenie w
amerykanskiej-natowskiej (NATO to USA) taktyce
jest niewystarczjace bo wojna ma inny charakter
i amerykanska taktyka zawodzi.

Amerykanie polegaja na prowadzeniu wojny
z opanowana przestrzenia powietrzna co pozwala
na ofensywy piechoty ze wsparciem lotnictwa.
Najpierw sa bombardowania pozniej atakujaca
piechote wspiera lotnictwo: samoloty i helikoptery
bojowe.

W wojnie z Rosja jest to niemozliwie bo Rosja
ma zbyt dobra obrone powietrzna. Wojna ma
miejsce na ziemi wylacznie bez zadnego istotnego
wsparcia lotniczego i polega na ciezkim wzajemnym
obstrzale artyleryjskim. Analogia do pierwszej wojny
swiatowej ...i masa makabrycznych kontuzji.
Setki tysiecy amputacji konczyn porozrywanych
na kawalki zolnierzy.

Ukraincy podobno odrzucaja to czego uczyli
ich Amerykanie bo wojna ma calkiem inny chrackter
od tej do ktorej przewidywalo amerykanskie szkolenie.

Basia (Ona/Jej)

Re: Bolton wini Bidena

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Subject: Re: Bolton wini Bidena
From: cyrylmet...@gmail.com (Russet Bulba)
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 by: Russet Bulba - Sat, 19 Aug 2023 23:12 UTC

On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 7:53:03 PM UTC-3, Basia wrote:
> On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 9:55:17 AM UTC-7, Hreczecha wrote:
> > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 11:20:54 PM UTC-5, Basia wrote:
> > > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 7:50:22 PM UTC-7, Hreczecha wrote:
> > > > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 5:38:54 AM UTC-5, Basia wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > https://www.wsj.com/articles/blame-bidens-hesitancy-for-stalling-ukraines-offensive-nato-aid-weapons-military-war-fight-europe-national-security-a62d9899
> > > >
> > > > "Vigorously..." po naszemu energicznie. Ale przydalyby sie konkrety.. Bo fachowcy mowie, ze ne chodzi o to, co Ukraine dostaje. ale co z tym robi. To znalazlem w Polityce:
> > > > https://www.polityka.pl/tygodnikpolityka/swiat/2223758,1,539-dzien-wojny-jest-problem-dlaczego-zachodni-sprzet-nie-pomaga-ukraincom.read?src=mt
> > > Nie mam subskrypcji. Pokazuje mi tylko
> > > dwa pierwsze paragrafy. Nie moge wiele
> > > skomentowac. Niewiem jak w Polsce
> > > ale w USA tzw. "fair use" pozwala
> > > zacytowac w calosi tekst z podaniem
> > > zrodla czy zastrzezeniem praw autorskich
> > > tzw. 'copyrightu.'
> > >
> > > Jestem sklonna uwierzyc w teze Boltona
> > > ze Biden umyslnie nie wysyla na Ukraine
> > > wystarczajacej ilosci broni tak by Ukraina
> > > prowadzila wojne ale by jej nie wygrala
> > > a przynajmniej nie za szybko jezeli w ogole.
> > >
> > > Wpisywalo by sie to doskonale w polityke
> > > oslabiania Rosji. Jak najdluzsza duracja
> > > wojny to tez maksymalizacja magnitudy
> > > rozpizdziachy i strat czyli oslabienia Rosji,
> > >
> > > ...teza walki "do ostatniego Ukrainca."
> > >
> > > Basia (Ona/Jej)
> >
> > Rozumiem. Ja prenumeruje Polityke. W skrocie chodzi o to, ze ukrainscy zolnierze nauczyli sie poslugiwac bronia dostarczana przez NATO. Ale skuteczne poslugiweanie sie ta bronia wymaga taktyki, ktora bardzo sie rozni od tej, w ktorej Ukraincy sa przeszkoleni. A opanowanie nowej taktyki je czasochlonne.
> Spotkalam sie z opinia ze przeszkolenie w
> amerykanskiej-natowskiej (NATO to USA) taktyce
> jest niewystarczjace bo wojna ma inny charakter
> i amerykanska taktyka zawodzi.
>
> Amerykanie polegaja na prowadzeniu wojny
> z opanowana przestrzenia powietrzna co pozwala
> na ofensywy piechoty ze wsparciem lotnictwa.
> Najpierw sa bombardowania pozniej atakujaca
> piechote wspiera lotnictwo: samoloty i helikoptery
> bojowe.
>
> W wojnie z Rosja jest to niemozliwie bo Rosja
> ma zbyt dobra obrone powietrzna. Wojna ma
> miejsce na ziemi wylacznie bez zadnego istotnego
> wsparcia lotniczego i polega na ciezkim wzajemnym
> obstrzale artyleryjskim. Analogia do pierwszej wojny
> swiatowej ...i masa makabrycznych kontuzji.
> Setki tysiecy amputacji konczyn porozrywanych
> na kawalki zolnierzy.
>
> Ukraincy podobno odrzucaja to czego uczyli
> ich Amerykanie bo wojna ma calkiem inny chrackter
> od tej do ktorej przewidywalo amerykanskie szkolenie.
>
> Basia (Ona/Jej)

Tego lotnictwa Ukraina nie miala od poczatku i jej sojusznicy nie bardzo sie pala aby jej w tym zakresie pomoc. A nawet gdy ta pomoc nadejdzie, to zabierze ona sporo czasu, aby byc efektywna. Pozostaja wiec Ukrainie w tej domenie srodki defensywne, ktore sa polowiczne i zamieniaja wojne w typowo okopowo- ladowa. Rosja tez sie nie pali z bardziej intensywnym uzyciem swojego lotnictwa, poniewaz rowniez obawia sie ukrainskiej obrony przeciwlotniczej.. Ale to lotnictwo tym niemniej ma, lecz je oszczedza na inne scenariusze, gdyz z kolei obawia sie powietrznego wsparcia NATO dla Ukrainy w pewnym momencie wojny.

Re: Bolton wini Bidena

<7024f93e-a8bf-4399-9b6e-96a39d709417n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Bolton wini Bidena
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 by: Russet Bulba - Sun, 20 Aug 2023 00:13 UTC

On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 8:12:53 PM UTC-3, Russet Bulba wrote:
> On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 7:53:03 PM UTC-3, Basia wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 9:55:17 AM UTC-7, Hreczecha wrote:
> > > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 11:20:54 PM UTC-5, Basia wrote:
> > > > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 7:50:22 PM UTC-7, Hreczecha wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 5:38:54 AM UTC-5, Basia wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > https://www.wsj.com/articles/blame-bidens-hesitancy-for-stalling-ukraines-offensive-nato-aid-weapons-military-war-fight-europe-national-security-a62d9899
> > > > >
> > > > > "Vigorously..." po naszemu energicznie. Ale przydalyby sie konkrety. Bo fachowcy mowie, ze ne chodzi o to, co Ukraine dostaje. ale co z tym robi. To znalazlem w Polityce:
> > > > > https://www.polityka.pl/tygodnikpolityka/swiat/2223758,1,539-dzien-wojny-jest-problem-dlaczego-zachodni-sprzet-nie-pomaga-ukraincom.read?src=mt
> > > > Nie mam subskrypcji. Pokazuje mi tylko
> > > > dwa pierwsze paragrafy. Nie moge wiele
> > > > skomentowac. Niewiem jak w Polsce
> > > > ale w USA tzw. "fair use" pozwala
> > > > zacytowac w calosi tekst z podaniem
> > > > zrodla czy zastrzezeniem praw autorskich
> > > > tzw. 'copyrightu.'
> > > >
> > > > Jestem sklonna uwierzyc w teze Boltona
> > > > ze Biden umyslnie nie wysyla na Ukraine
> > > > wystarczajacej ilosci broni tak by Ukraina
> > > > prowadzila wojne ale by jej nie wygrala
> > > > a przynajmniej nie za szybko jezeli w ogole.
> > > >
> > > > Wpisywalo by sie to doskonale w polityke
> > > > oslabiania Rosji. Jak najdluzsza duracja
> > > > wojny to tez maksymalizacja magnitudy
> > > > rozpizdziachy i strat czyli oslabienia Rosji,
> > > >
> > > > ...teza walki "do ostatniego Ukrainca."
> > > >
> > > > Basia (Ona/Jej)
> > >
> > > Rozumiem. Ja prenumeruje Polityke. W skrocie chodzi o to, ze ukrainscy zolnierze nauczyli sie poslugiwac bronia dostarczana przez NATO. Ale skuteczne poslugiweanie sie ta bronia wymaga taktyki, ktora bardzo sie rozni od tej, w ktorej Ukraincy sa przeszkoleni. A opanowanie nowej taktyki je czasochlonne.
> > Spotkalam sie z opinia ze przeszkolenie w
> > amerykanskiej-natowskiej (NATO to USA) taktyce
> > jest niewystarczjace bo wojna ma inny charakter
> > i amerykanska taktyka zawodzi.
> >
> > Amerykanie polegaja na prowadzeniu wojny
> > z opanowana przestrzenia powietrzna co pozwala
> > na ofensywy piechoty ze wsparciem lotnictwa.
> > Najpierw sa bombardowania pozniej atakujaca
> > piechote wspiera lotnictwo: samoloty i helikoptery
> > bojowe.
> >
> > W wojnie z Rosja jest to niemozliwie bo Rosja
> > ma zbyt dobra obrone powietrzna. Wojna ma
> > miejsce na ziemi wylacznie bez zadnego istotnego
> > wsparcia lotniczego i polega na ciezkim wzajemnym
> > obstrzale artyleryjskim. Analogia do pierwszej wojny
> > swiatowej ...i masa makabrycznych kontuzji.
> > Setki tysiecy amputacji konczyn porozrywanych
> > na kawalki zolnierzy.
> >
> > Ukraincy podobno odrzucaja to czego uczyli
> > ich Amerykanie bo wojna ma calkiem inny chrackter
> > od tej do ktorej przewidywalo amerykanskie szkolenie.
> >
> > Basia (Ona/Jej)
> Tego lotnictwa Ukraina nie miala od poczatku i jej sojusznicy nie bardzo sie pala aby jej w tym zakresie pomoc. A nawet gdy ta pomoc nadejdzie, to zabierze ona sporo czasu, aby byc efektywna. Pozostaja wiec Ukrainie w tej domenie srodki defensywne, ktore sa polowiczne i zamieniaja wojne w typowo okopowo- ladowa. Rosja tez sie nie pali z bardziej intensywnym uzyciem swojego lotnictwa, poniewaz rowniez obawia sie ukrainskiej obrony przeciwlotniczej. Ale to lotnictwo tym niemniej ma, lecz je oszczedza na inne scenariusze, gdyz z kolei obawia sie powietrznego wsparcia NATO dla Ukrainy w pewnym momencie wojny.

Tak wiec Basiu te basine spekulacje, ze NATO dazy do podboju Rosji jak i propaganda Rosji, iz NATO jest dla niej smiertelnym zagrozeniem byly i sa mocno ale to naprawde mocno na wyrost.

Re: Bolton wini Bidena

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Subject: Re: Bolton wini Bidena
From: abjj...@sbcglobal.net (Basia)
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 by: Basia - Sun, 20 Aug 2023 01:53 UTC

On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 5:14:00 PM UTC-7, Russet Bulba wrote:
> On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 8:12:53 PM UTC-3, Russet Bulba wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 7:53:03 PM UTC-3, Basia wrote:
> > > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 9:55:17 AM UTC-7, Hreczecha wrote:
> > > > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 11:20:54 PM UTC-5, Basia wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 7:50:22 PM UTC-7, Hreczecha wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 5:38:54 AM UTC-5, Basia wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://www.wsj.com/articles/blame-bidens-hesitancy-for-stalling-ukraines-offensive-nato-aid-weapons-military-war-fight-europe-national-security-a62d9899
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Vigorously..." po naszemu energicznie. Ale przydalyby sie konkrety. Bo fachowcy mowie, ze ne chodzi o to, co Ukraine dostaje. ale co z tym robi. To znalazlem w Polityce:
> > > > > > https://www.polityka.pl/tygodnikpolityka/swiat/2223758,1,539-dzien-wojny-jest-problem-dlaczego-zachodni-sprzet-nie-pomaga-ukraincom.read?src=mt
> > > > > Nie mam subskrypcji. Pokazuje mi tylko
> > > > > dwa pierwsze paragrafy. Nie moge wiele
> > > > > skomentowac. Niewiem jak w Polsce
> > > > > ale w USA tzw. "fair use" pozwala
> > > > > zacytowac w calosi tekst z podaniem
> > > > > zrodla czy zastrzezeniem praw autorskich
> > > > > tzw. 'copyrightu.'
> > > > >
> > > > > Jestem sklonna uwierzyc w teze Boltona
> > > > > ze Biden umyslnie nie wysyla na Ukraine
> > > > > wystarczajacej ilosci broni tak by Ukraina
> > > > > prowadzila wojne ale by jej nie wygrala
> > > > > a przynajmniej nie za szybko jezeli w ogole.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wpisywalo by sie to doskonale w polityke
> > > > > oslabiania Rosji. Jak najdluzsza duracja
> > > > > wojny to tez maksymalizacja magnitudy
> > > > > rozpizdziachy i strat czyli oslabienia Rosji,
> > > > >
> > > > > ...teza walki "do ostatniego Ukrainca."
> > > > >
> > > > > Basia (Ona/Jej)
> > > >
> > > > Rozumiem. Ja prenumeruje Polityke. W skrocie chodzi o to, ze ukrainscy zolnierze nauczyli sie poslugiwac bronia dostarczana przez NATO. Ale skuteczne poslugiweanie sie ta bronia wymaga taktyki, ktora bardzo sie rozni od tej, w ktorej Ukraincy sa przeszkoleni. A opanowanie nowej taktyki je czasochlonne.
> > > Spotkalam sie z opinia ze przeszkolenie w
> > > amerykanskiej-natowskiej (NATO to USA) taktyce
> > > jest niewystarczjace bo wojna ma inny charakter
> > > i amerykanska taktyka zawodzi.
> > >
> > > Amerykanie polegaja na prowadzeniu wojny
> > > z opanowana przestrzenia powietrzna co pozwala
> > > na ofensywy piechoty ze wsparciem lotnictwa.
> > > Najpierw sa bombardowania pozniej atakujaca
> > > piechote wspiera lotnictwo: samoloty i helikoptery
> > > bojowe.
> > >
> > > W wojnie z Rosja jest to niemozliwie bo Rosja
> > > ma zbyt dobra obrone powietrzna. Wojna ma
> > > miejsce na ziemi wylacznie bez zadnego istotnego
> > > wsparcia lotniczego i polega na ciezkim wzajemnym
> > > obstrzale artyleryjskim. Analogia do pierwszej wojny
> > > swiatowej ...i masa makabrycznych kontuzji.
> > > Setki tysiecy amputacji konczyn porozrywanych
> > > na kawalki zolnierzy.
> > >
> > > Ukraincy podobno odrzucaja to czego uczyli
> > > ich Amerykanie bo wojna ma calkiem inny chrackter
> > > od tej do ktorej przewidywalo amerykanskie szkolenie.
> > >
> > > Basia (Ona/Jej)
>
> > Tego lotnictwa Ukraina nie miala od poczatku i jej sojusznicy nie bardzo sie pala aby jej w tym zakresie pomoc. A nawet gdy ta pomoc nadejdzie, to zabierze ona sporo czasu, aby byc efektywna. Pozostaja wiec Ukrainie w tej domenie srodki defensywne, ktore sa polowiczne i zamieniaja wojne w typowo okopowo- ladowa. Rosja tez sie nie pali z bardziej intensywnym uzyciem swojego lotnictwa, poniewaz rowniez obawia sie ukrainskiej obrony przeciwlotniczej. Ale to lotnictwo tym niemniej ma, lecz je oszczedza na inne scenariusze, gdyz z kolei obawia sie powietrznego wsparcia NATO dla Ukrainy w pewnym momencie wojny.
>
> Tak wiec Basiu te basine spekulacje, ze NATO dazy do podboju Rosji jak i propaganda Rosji, iz NATO jest dla niej smiertelnym zagrozeniem byly i sa mocno ale to naprawde mocno na wyrost.

Spekulacje Basi, byly o tym ze NATO-USA
maja w zamiarze konfrontacje z Chinami
ktore sa pierwszorzedowym gospodarczym
i militarnym konkurentem USA,

....by sie do tego konfliktu o prymat nad
cala Planeta nalezy sie NATO-USA dobrze
przygotowac, przypozycjonowac i potrzebne
jest wczesniejsze zagospodarowanie sobie
zasobow Rosji.

O takim scenario mowi sie powszechnie.
Brzezinski dawno temu prawil o robieniu
wszystkiego co mozliwe by nie dopuscic
do powstania sojuszu Rosji z Chinami.

Nawet TW Bolek cos podslyszal, wyskoczyl
niedawno ze swoja propozycja dla NATO:

"...musimy zrobić porządek z Rosją,
a potem z Chinami."
Lech Walesa

Basia (Ona/Jej)

Re: Bolton wini Bidena

<5f4c1729-ed13-481d-950d-b7fb5c5c541an@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Bolton wini Bidena
From: cyrylmet...@gmail.com (Russet Bulba)
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 by: Russet Bulba - Sun, 20 Aug 2023 02:29 UTC

On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 10:53:41 PM UTC-3, Basia wrote:
> On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 5:14:00 PM UTC-7, Russet Bulba wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 8:12:53 PM UTC-3, Russet Bulba wrote:
> > > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 7:53:03 PM UTC-3, Basia wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 9:55:17 AM UTC-7, Hreczecha wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 11:20:54 PM UTC-5, Basia wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 7:50:22 PM UTC-7, Hreczecha wrote:
> > > > > > > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 5:38:54 AM UTC-5, Basia wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > https://www.wsj.com/articles/blame-bidens-hesitancy-for-stalling-ukraines-offensive-nato-aid-weapons-military-war-fight-europe-national-security-a62d9899
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Vigorously..." po naszemu energicznie. Ale przydalyby sie konkrety. Bo fachowcy mowie, ze ne chodzi o to, co Ukraine dostaje. ale co z tym robi. To znalazlem w Polityce:
> > > > > > > https://www.polityka.pl/tygodnikpolityka/swiat/2223758,1,539-dzien-wojny-jest-problem-dlaczego-zachodni-sprzet-nie-pomaga-ukraincom.read?src=mt
> > > > > > Nie mam subskrypcji. Pokazuje mi tylko
> > > > > > dwa pierwsze paragrafy. Nie moge wiele
> > > > > > skomentowac. Niewiem jak w Polsce
> > > > > > ale w USA tzw. "fair use" pozwala
> > > > > > zacytowac w calosi tekst z podaniem
> > > > > > zrodla czy zastrzezeniem praw autorskich
> > > > > > tzw. 'copyrightu.'
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jestem sklonna uwierzyc w teze Boltona
> > > > > > ze Biden umyslnie nie wysyla na Ukraine
> > > > > > wystarczajacej ilosci broni tak by Ukraina
> > > > > > prowadzila wojne ale by jej nie wygrala
> > > > > > a przynajmniej nie za szybko jezeli w ogole.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wpisywalo by sie to doskonale w polityke
> > > > > > oslabiania Rosji. Jak najdluzsza duracja
> > > > > > wojny to tez maksymalizacja magnitudy
> > > > > > rozpizdziachy i strat czyli oslabienia Rosji,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ...teza walki "do ostatniego Ukrainca."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Basia (Ona/Jej)
> > > > >
> > > > > Rozumiem. Ja prenumeruje Polityke. W skrocie chodzi o to, ze ukrainscy zolnierze nauczyli sie poslugiwac bronia dostarczana przez NATO. Ale skuteczne poslugiweanie sie ta bronia wymaga taktyki, ktora bardzo sie rozni od tej, w ktorej Ukraincy sa przeszkoleni. A opanowanie nowej taktyki je czasochlonne.
> > > > Spotkalam sie z opinia ze przeszkolenie w
> > > > amerykanskiej-natowskiej (NATO to USA) taktyce
> > > > jest niewystarczjace bo wojna ma inny charakter
> > > > i amerykanska taktyka zawodzi.
> > > >
> > > > Amerykanie polegaja na prowadzeniu wojny
> > > > z opanowana przestrzenia powietrzna co pozwala
> > > > na ofensywy piechoty ze wsparciem lotnictwa.
> > > > Najpierw sa bombardowania pozniej atakujaca
> > > > piechote wspiera lotnictwo: samoloty i helikoptery
> > > > bojowe.
> > > >
> > > > W wojnie z Rosja jest to niemozliwie bo Rosja
> > > > ma zbyt dobra obrone powietrzna. Wojna ma
> > > > miejsce na ziemi wylacznie bez zadnego istotnego
> > > > wsparcia lotniczego i polega na ciezkim wzajemnym
> > > > obstrzale artyleryjskim. Analogia do pierwszej wojny
> > > > swiatowej ...i masa makabrycznych kontuzji.
> > > > Setki tysiecy amputacji konczyn porozrywanych
> > > > na kawalki zolnierzy.
> > > >
> > > > Ukraincy podobno odrzucaja to czego uczyli
> > > > ich Amerykanie bo wojna ma calkiem inny chrackter
> > > > od tej do ktorej przewidywalo amerykanskie szkolenie.
> > > >
> > > > Basia (Ona/Jej)
> >
> > > Tego lotnictwa Ukraina nie miala od poczatku i jej sojusznicy nie bardzo sie pala aby jej w tym zakresie pomoc. A nawet gdy ta pomoc nadejdzie, to zabierze ona sporo czasu, aby byc efektywna. Pozostaja wiec Ukrainie w tej domenie srodki defensywne, ktore sa polowiczne i zamieniaja wojne w typowo okopowo- ladowa. Rosja tez sie nie pali z bardziej intensywnym uzyciem swojego lotnictwa, poniewaz rowniez obawia sie ukrainskiej obrony przeciwlotniczej. Ale to lotnictwo tym niemniej ma, lecz je oszczedza na inne scenariusze, gdyz z kolei obawia sie powietrznego wsparcia NATO dla Ukrainy w pewnym momencie wojny.
> >
> > Tak wiec Basiu te basine spekulacje, ze NATO dazy do podboju Rosji jak i propaganda Rosji, iz NATO jest dla niej smiertelnym zagrozeniem byly i sa mocno ale to naprawde mocno na wyrost.
> Spekulacje Basi, byly o tym ze NATO-USA
> maja w zamiarze konfrontacje z Chinami
> ktore sa pierwszorzedowym gospodarczym
> i militarnym konkurentem USA,
>
> ...by sie do tego konfliktu o prymat nad
> cala Planeta nalezy sie NATO-USA dobrze
> przygotowac, przypozycjonowac i potrzebne
> jest wczesniejsze zagospodarowanie sobie
> zasobow Rosji.
>
> O takim scenario mowi sie powszechnie.
> Brzezinski dawno temu prawil o robieniu
> wszystkiego co mozliwe by nie dopuscic
> do powstania sojuszu Rosji z Chinami.
>
> Nawet TW Bolek cos podslyszal, wyskoczyl
> niedawno ze swoja propozycja dla NATO:
>
> "...musimy zrobić porządek z Rosją,
> a potem z Chinami."
> Lech Walesa
>
> Basia (Ona/Jej)

Mozna sobie pogadac z tym, ze jak niby ta kontrola nad Rosja mislaby zaistniec. Jakimi srodkami poza ekonomicznymi? Bo na bezposrednia wojne nikt na Zachodzie nie ma ochoty. Mysle, ze utrzymywanie Ukrainy w stanie konfliktu z Rosja sluzy sprawie Europy Centralnej, jednoczy NATO a przez to umacnia role USA na kontynencie europejskim. Ale tez jest bardzo na reke Chinom odciagajac uwage USA w strone Europy. Tak wiec Chiny tez sa zainteresowane w utrzymywaniu aktywnego konfliktu w tym regionie mimo deklarowanych inicjatyw pokojowych. Nie sadze aby Chiny byly zainteresowane odbudowa roli Rosji jako waznego czynnika w globalnym ukladzie i wola bilateralne przywodztwo po linii Chiny-USA i Rosja, ktora nie odpowiada kompletnie ich temperamentowi moze byc dla Chin tylko narzedziem a nie partnerem.

Re: Bolton wini Bidena

<ubui09$1o0dg$1@dont-email.me>

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Subject: Re: Bolton wini Bidena
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 by: andal - Mon, 21 Aug 2023 02:26 UTC

On Sat, 19 Aug 2023 19:29:05 -0700 (PDT), Russet Bulba wrote:

> On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 10:53:41 PM UTC-3, Basia wrote:
>> On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 5:14:00 PM UTC-7, Russet Bulba wrote:
>> > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 8:12:53 PM UTC-3, Russet Bulba wrote:
>> > > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 7:53:03 PM UTC-3, Basia wrote:
>> > > > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 9:55:17 AM UTC-7, Hreczecha
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 11:20:54 PM UTC-5, Basia wrote:
>> > > > > > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 7:50:22 PM UTC-7, Hreczecha
>> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 5:38:54 AM UTC-5, Basia
>> > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > https://www.wsj.com/articles/blame-bidens-hesitancy-for-
stalling-ukraines-offensive-nato-aid-weapons-military-war-fight-europe-
national-security-a62d9899
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > "Vigorously..." po naszemu energicznie. Ale przydalyby sie
>> > > > > > > konkrety. Bo fachowcy mowie, ze ne chodzi o to, co Ukraine
>> > > > > > > dostaje. ale co z tym robi. To znalazlem w Polityce:
>> > > > > > > https://www.polityka.pl/tygodnikpolityka/swiat/
2223758,1,539-dzien-wojny-jest-problem-dlaczego-zachodni-sprzet-nie-
pomaga-ukraincom.read?src=mt
>> > > > > > Nie mam subskrypcji. Pokazuje mi tylko dwa pierwsze
>> > > > > > paragrafy. Nie moge wiele skomentowac. Niewiem jak w Polsce
>> > > > > > ale w USA tzw. "fair use" pozwala zacytowac w calosi tekst z
>> > > > > > podaniem zrodla czy zastrzezeniem praw autorskich tzw.
>> > > > > > 'copyrightu.'
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Jestem sklonna uwierzyc w teze Boltona ze Biden umyslnie nie
>> > > > > > wysyla na Ukraine wystarczajacej ilosci broni tak by Ukraina
>> > > > > > prowadzila wojne ale by jej nie wygrala a przynajmniej nie za
>> > > > > > szybko jezeli w ogole.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Wpisywalo by sie to doskonale w polityke oslabiania Rosji.
>> > > > > > Jak najdluzsza duracja wojny to tez maksymalizacja magnitudy
>> > > > > > rozpizdziachy i strat czyli oslabienia Rosji,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > ...teza walki "do ostatniego Ukrainca."
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Basia (Ona/Jej)
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Rozumiem. Ja prenumeruje Polityke. W skrocie chodzi o to, ze
>> > > > > ukrainscy zolnierze nauczyli sie poslugiwac bronia dostarczana
>> > > > > przez NATO. Ale skuteczne poslugiweanie sie ta bronia wymaga
>> > > > > taktyki, ktora bardzo sie rozni od tej, w ktorej Ukraincy sa
>> > > > > przeszkoleni. A opanowanie nowej taktyki je czasochlonne.
>> > > > Spotkalam sie z opinia ze przeszkolenie w
>> > > > amerykanskiej-natowskiej (NATO to USA) taktyce jest
>> > > > niewystarczjace bo wojna ma inny charakter i amerykanska taktyka
>> > > > zawodzi.
>> > > >
>> > > > Amerykanie polegaja na prowadzeniu wojny z opanowana przestrzenia
>> > > > powietrzna co pozwala na ofensywy piechoty ze wsparciem
>> > > > lotnictwa.
>> > > > Najpierw sa bombardowania pozniej atakujaca piechote wspiera
>> > > > lotnictwo: samoloty i helikoptery bojowe.
>> > > >
>> > > > W wojnie z Rosja jest to niemozliwie bo Rosja ma zbyt dobra
>> > > > obrone powietrzna. Wojna ma miejsce na ziemi wylacznie bez
>> > > > zadnego istotnego wsparcia lotniczego i polega na ciezkim
>> > > > wzajemnym obstrzale artyleryjskim. Analogia do pierwszej wojny
>> > > > swiatowej ...i masa makabrycznych kontuzji.
>> > > > Setki tysiecy amputacji konczyn porozrywanych na kawalki
>> > > > zolnierzy.
>> > > >
>> > > > Ukraincy podobno odrzucaja to czego uczyli ich Amerykanie bo
>> > > > wojna ma calkiem inny chrackter od tej do ktorej przewidywalo
>> > > > amerykanskie szkolenie.
>> > > >
>> > > > Basia (Ona/Jej)
>> >
>> > > Tego lotnictwa Ukraina nie miala od poczatku i jej sojusznicy nie
>> > > bardzo sie pala aby jej w tym zakresie pomoc. A nawet gdy ta pomoc
>> > > nadejdzie, to zabierze ona sporo czasu, aby byc efektywna.
>> > > Pozostaja wiec Ukrainie w tej domenie srodki defensywne, ktore sa
>> > > polowiczne i zamieniaja wojne w typowo okopowo- ladowa. Rosja tez
>> > > sie nie pali z bardziej intensywnym uzyciem swojego lotnictwa,
>> > > poniewaz rowniez obawia sie ukrainskiej obrony przeciwlotniczej.
>> > > Ale to lotnictwo tym niemniej ma, lecz je oszczedza na inne
>> > > scenariusze, gdyz z kolei obawia sie powietrznego wsparcia NATO dla
>> > > Ukrainy w pewnym momencie wojny.
>> >
>> > Tak wiec Basiu te basine spekulacje, ze NATO dazy do podboju Rosji
>> > jak i propaganda Rosji, iz NATO jest dla niej smiertelnym zagrozeniem
>> > byly i sa mocno ale to naprawde mocno na wyrost.
>> Spekulacje Basi, byly o tym ze NATO-USA maja w zamiarze konfrontacje z
>> Chinami ktore sa pierwszorzedowym gospodarczym i militarnym konkurentem
>> USA,
>>
>> ...by sie do tego konfliktu o prymat nad cala Planeta nalezy sie
>> NATO-USA dobrze przygotowac, przypozycjonowac i potrzebne jest
>> wczesniejsze zagospodarowanie sobie zasobow Rosji.
>>
>> O takim scenario mowi sie powszechnie.
>> Brzezinski dawno temu prawil o robieniu wszystkiego co mozliwe by nie
>> dopuscic do powstania sojuszu Rosji z Chinami.
>>
>> Nawet TW Bolek cos podslyszal, wyskoczyl niedawno ze swoja propozycja
>> dla NATO:
>>
>> "...musimy zrobić porządek z Rosją,
>> a potem z Chinami."
>> Lech Walesa
>>
>> Basia (Ona/Jej)
>
> Mozna sobie pogadac z tym, ze jak niby ta kontrola nad Rosja mislaby
> zaistniec. Jakimi srodkami poza ekonomicznymi? Bo na bezposrednia wojne
> nikt na Zachodzie nie ma ochoty. Mysle, ze utrzymywanie Ukrainy w stanie
> konfliktu z Rosja sluzy sprawie Europy Centralnej, jednoczy NATO a przez
> to umacnia role USA na kontynencie europejskim. Ale tez jest bardzo na
> reke Chinom odciagajac uwage USA w strone Europy. Tak wiec Chiny tez sa
> zainteresowane w utrzymywaniu aktywnego konfliktu w tym regionie mimo
> deklarowanych inicjatyw pokojowych. Nie sadze aby Chiny byly
> zainteresowane odbudowa roli Rosji jako waznego czynnika w globalnym
> ukladzie i wola bilateralne przywodztwo po linii Chiny-USA i Rosja,
> ktora nie odpowiada kompletnie ich temperamentowi moze byc dla Chin
> tylko narzedziem a nie partnerem.

zamiast sprzeczac sie na temat co robi usa/rosja/chiny policzcie ile
szekli zarabiaja zydy na tej wojnie

Re: Bolton wini Bidena

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Subject: Re: Bolton wini Bidena
From: abjj...@sbcglobal.net (Basia)
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 by: Basia - Mon, 21 Aug 2023 03:47 UTC

On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 7:26:20 PM UTC-7, andal wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Aug 2023 19:29:05 -0700 (PDT), Russet Bulba wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 10:53:41 PM UTC-3, Basia wrote:
> >> On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 5:14:00 PM UTC-7, Russet Bulba wrote:
> >> > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 8:12:53 PM UTC-3, Russet Bulba wrote:
> >> > > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 7:53:03 PM UTC-3, Basia wrote:
> >> > > > On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 9:55:17 AM UTC-7, Hreczecha
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 11:20:54 PM UTC-5, Basia wrote:
> >> > > > > > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 7:50:22 PM UTC-7, Hreczecha
> >> > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 5:38:54 AM UTC-5, Basia
> >> > > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > https://www.wsj.com/articles/blame-bidens-hesitancy-for-
> stalling-ukraines-offensive-nato-aid-weapons-military-war-fight-europe-
> national-security-a62d9899
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > "Vigorously..." po naszemu energicznie. Ale przydalyby sie
> >> > > > > > > konkrety. Bo fachowcy mowie, ze ne chodzi o to, co Ukraine
> >> > > > > > > dostaje. ale co z tym robi. To znalazlem w Polityce:
> >> > > > > > > https://www.polityka.pl/tygodnikpolityka/swiat/
> 2223758,1,539-dzien-wojny-jest-problem-dlaczego-zachodni-sprzet-nie-
> pomaga-ukraincom.read?src=mt
> >> > > > > > Nie mam subskrypcji. Pokazuje mi tylko dwa pierwsze
> >> > > > > > paragrafy. Nie moge wiele skomentowac. Niewiem jak w Polsce
> >> > > > > > ale w USA tzw. "fair use" pozwala zacytowac w calosi tekst z
> >> > > > > > podaniem zrodla czy zastrzezeniem praw autorskich tzw.
> >> > > > > > 'copyrightu.'
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Jestem sklonna uwierzyc w teze Boltona ze Biden umyslnie nie
> >> > > > > > wysyla na Ukraine wystarczajacej ilosci broni tak by Ukraina
> >> > > > > > prowadzila wojne ale by jej nie wygrala a przynajmniej nie za
> >> > > > > > szybko jezeli w ogole.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Wpisywalo by sie to doskonale w polityke oslabiania Rosji.
> >> > > > > > Jak najdluzsza duracja wojny to tez maksymalizacja magnitudy
> >> > > > > > rozpizdziachy i strat czyli oslabienia Rosji,
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > ...teza walki "do ostatniego Ukrainca."
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Basia (Ona/Jej)
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Rozumiem. Ja prenumeruje Polityke. W skrocie chodzi o to, ze
> >> > > > > ukrainscy zolnierze nauczyli sie poslugiwac bronia dostarczana
> >> > > > > przez NATO. Ale skuteczne poslugiweanie sie ta bronia wymaga
> >> > > > > taktyki, ktora bardzo sie rozni od tej, w ktorej Ukraincy sa
> >> > > > > przeszkoleni. A opanowanie nowej taktyki je czasochlonne.
> >> > > > Spotkalam sie z opinia ze przeszkolenie w
> >> > > > amerykanskiej-natowskiej (NATO to USA) taktyce jest
> >> > > > niewystarczjace bo wojna ma inny charakter i amerykanska taktyka
> >> > > > zawodzi.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Amerykanie polegaja na prowadzeniu wojny z opanowana przestrzenia
> >> > > > powietrzna co pozwala na ofensywy piechoty ze wsparciem
> >> > > > lotnictwa.
> >> > > > Najpierw sa bombardowania pozniej atakujaca piechote wspiera
> >> > > > lotnictwo: samoloty i helikoptery bojowe.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > W wojnie z Rosja jest to niemozliwie bo Rosja ma zbyt dobra
> >> > > > obrone powietrzna. Wojna ma miejsce na ziemi wylacznie bez
> >> > > > zadnego istotnego wsparcia lotniczego i polega na ciezkim
> >> > > > wzajemnym obstrzale artyleryjskim. Analogia do pierwszej wojny
> >> > > > swiatowej ...i masa makabrycznych kontuzji.
> >> > > > Setki tysiecy amputacji konczyn porozrywanych na kawalki
> >> > > > zolnierzy.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Ukraincy podobno odrzucaja to czego uczyli ich Amerykanie bo
> >> > > > wojna ma calkiem inny chrackter od tej do ktorej przewidywalo
> >> > > > amerykanskie szkolenie.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Basia (Ona/Jej)
> >> >
> >> > > Tego lotnictwa Ukraina nie miala od poczatku i jej sojusznicy nie
> >> > > bardzo sie pala aby jej w tym zakresie pomoc. A nawet gdy ta pomoc
> >> > > nadejdzie, to zabierze ona sporo czasu, aby byc efektywna.
> >> > > Pozostaja wiec Ukrainie w tej domenie srodki defensywne, ktore sa
> >> > > polowiczne i zamieniaja wojne w typowo okopowo- ladowa. Rosja tez
> >> > > sie nie pali z bardziej intensywnym uzyciem swojego lotnictwa,
> >> > > poniewaz rowniez obawia sie ukrainskiej obrony przeciwlotniczej.
> >> > > Ale to lotnictwo tym niemniej ma, lecz je oszczedza na inne
> >> > > scenariusze, gdyz z kolei obawia sie powietrznego wsparcia NATO dla
> >> > > Ukrainy w pewnym momencie wojny.
> >> >
> >> > Tak wiec Basiu te basine spekulacje, ze NATO dazy do podboju Rosji
> >> > jak i propaganda Rosji, iz NATO jest dla niej smiertelnym zagrozeniem
> >> > byly i sa mocno ale to naprawde mocno na wyrost.
> >> Spekulacje Basi, byly o tym ze NATO-USA maja w zamiarze konfrontacje z
> >> Chinami ktore sa pierwszorzedowym gospodarczym i militarnym konkurentem
> >> USA,
> >>
> >> ...by sie do tego konfliktu o prymat nad cala Planeta nalezy sie
> >> NATO-USA dobrze przygotowac, przypozycjonowac i potrzebne jest
> >> wczesniejsze zagospodarowanie sobie zasobow Rosji.
> >>
> >> O takim scenario mowi sie powszechnie.
> >> Brzezinski dawno temu prawil o robieniu wszystkiego co mozliwe by nie
> >> dopuscic do powstania sojuszu Rosji z Chinami.
> >>
> >> Nawet TW Bolek cos podslyszal, wyskoczyl niedawno ze swoja propozycja
> >> dla NATO:
> >>
> >> "...musimy zrobić porządek z Rosją,
> >> a potem z Chinami."
> >> Lech Walesa
> >>
> >> Basia (Ona/Jej)
> >
> > Mozna sobie pogadac z tym, ze jak niby ta kontrola nad Rosja mislaby
> > zaistniec. Jakimi srodkami poza ekonomicznymi? Bo na bezposrednia wojne
> > nikt na Zachodzie nie ma ochoty. Mysle, ze utrzymywanie Ukrainy w stanie
> > konfliktu z Rosja sluzy sprawie Europy Centralnej, jednoczy NATO a przez
> > to umacnia role USA na kontynencie europejskim. Ale tez jest bardzo na
> > reke Chinom odciagajac uwage USA w strone Europy. Tak wiec Chiny tez sa
> > zainteresowane w utrzymywaniu aktywnego konfliktu w tym regionie mimo
> > deklarowanych inicjatyw pokojowych. Nie sadze aby Chiny byly
> > zainteresowane odbudowa roli Rosji jako waznego czynnika w globalnym
> > ukladzie i wola bilateralne przywodztwo po linii Chiny-USA i Rosja,
> > ktora nie odpowiada kompletnie ich temperamentowi moze byc dla Chin
> > tylko narzedziem a nie partnerem.
>
> zamiast sprzeczac sie na temat co robi usa/rosja/chiny policzcie ile
> szekli zarabiaja zydy na tej wojnie

By kontynuowac sprzeczke z wkurwionym Zydem
szalejacym w kazdym niemalze watku scp?

Basia (Ona/Jej)

1
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