Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

"There... I've run rings 'round you logically" -- Monty Python's Flying Circus


interests / soc.history.war.misc / Re: An interesting Quora How long will Israel survive as a nation-state?

SubjectAuthor
* Re: An interesting Quora How long will Israel survive as a nation-state?SolomonW
`- Re: An interesting Quora How long will Israel survive as a nation-state?Jim Wilkins

1
Re: An interesting Quora How long will Israel survive as a nation-state?

<69s2ntyvtm6z.427dw5do5qnc$.dlg@40tude.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=735&group=soc.history.war.misc#735

 copy link   Newsgroups: soc.history.war.misc rec.aviation.military sci.military.naval alt.binaries.pictures.military
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Solom...@citi.com (SolomonW)
Newsgroups: soc.history.war.misc,rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval,alt.binaries.pictures.military
Subject: Re: An interesting Quora How long will Israel survive as a nation-state?
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 18:59:59 +1000
Organization: Truth with honesty
Lines: 199
Message-ID: <69s2ntyvtm6z.427dw5do5qnc$.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <s5iu1r01f3k@news4.newsguy.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="big5"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="8165db49ca070c6ed5a91c063dcbceab";
logging-data="29093"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18zG60a4HEV2nz4kW5sqMbjPbAryL86QKU="
User-Agent: 40tude_Dialog/2.0.15.1
Cancel-Lock: sha1:PvDFB9EdvCBojLQkfFmpEBKOgrQ=
 by: SolomonW - Mon, 19 Apr 2021 08:59 UTC

On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 20:39:40 -0700, a425couple wrote:

> An interesting Quora
>
> Daniel Schwartz
> Updated August 29, 2020
> I'm doing my best to live forever or die trying.
>
> How long will Israel survive as a nation-state? What is the honest
> opinion of the people of Israel about its long-term survival?
> “How long will Israel survive as a nation-state? What is the honest
> opinion of the people of Israel about its long-term survival?”
>
> Well, let’s look at some trends.
>
> When the modern State of Israel was established in 1948, it was a
> country barely hanging on. It was established thanks to a
> near-miraculous UN vote, followed by a near-miraculous victory in the
> war that followed. This country of 600,000 people — which had just
> suffered an enormous 1% casualties in its war of independence, and was
> reeling from that, doubled in population over just a few years as Jews
> started streaming in from all over the Middle East.
>
> Twenty years later, Israel still faced an existential threat from its
> neighbors… but its military, and its intelligence apparatus, were so
> good that, in a war intended to exterminate Israel, Israel instead
> quadrupled in size, grabbing land from Syria, Egypt, and Jordan… and
> doing it all in six days! It seems that Israel was a lot stronger than
> it had been.
>
> Today Israel is stronger and more capable than ever. Israel does not
> threaten its neighbors… but when they threaten Israel, Israel takes care
> of business, quickly and efficiently, and goes home. Iran threatens
> Israel with destruction; Israel sneaks into Iran undetected, steals a
> half ton of top-secret documents about Iran’s nuclear-weapons programs,
> and makes them public. Syria builds a chemical-weapons factory,
> surrounded by the latest state-of-the-art Russian anti-aircraft missiles
> to protect it… and Israel destroys it, from the air, after disabling the
> anti-aircraft remotely.
>
> You see what I mean? People keep talking about wanting to destroy
> Israel… and Israel demonstrates, again and again, that they are not even
> remotely in Israel’s league.
>
> When Israel was established, its economy struggled; the most famous
> export was “Jaffa oranges”. Some decades later, Israel’s exports, from
> computer technology to agriculture to water reclamation to medical
> advances, are the envy of the world. Hi-tech companies all over the
> world set up shop in Israel, to take advantage of Israel’s pool of
> unparalleled talent and entrepreneurship. Israeli inventions and new
> technologies are everywhere; if you wanted to boycott Israeli technology
> completely, you’d need to live in a cave.
>
> In other words, Israel’s positive influence on the world has grown
> steadily, and it continues to grow.
>
> And now we see Israel’s diplomatic influence growing. Once it seemed
> that Israel had hardly a friend in the world; France sold Israel weapons
> until 1967, and then refused to sell any more, even refusing to deliver
> some that had already been paid for. Once it seemed that the entire Arab
> world was united in its hatred of Israel. But two of Israel’s most
> implacable foes, Egypt and Jordan, have signed and honored peace
> treaties with Israel — and recently, the UAE has signed as well. More
> importantly, other Arab countries have expressed their understanding
> (and approval?) of this latest development, suggesting that more
> treaties could soon follow — and these, by all appearances, would be
> treaties based on economic self-interest, not politics. Increasingly,
> the Arab world seems to understand that they have a lot to gain from
> being a friend of Israel — much more than they ever gained as Israel’s
> enemy.
>
> How long will Israel survive as a nation-state? As of August 2020,
> Israel has never been stronger, never been more confident of its place
> in the world… and Israel shows every sign of continuing so, as far as
> the eye can see.
>
> The world is a better place because of Israel. Israel will survive, and
> thrive, and continue to contribute to the world… and we can all be
> grateful for that.
>
> EDIT: Thanks to David Weiser for reminding me that the modern State of
> Israel was not established by the UN. Rather, a UN vote provided
> international recognition of a potential Jewish State… and left it to
> fend for itself in the war that inevitably followed.
>
> The UN vote meant that Israel had legitimacy in the eyes of the world,
> if Israel could survive an invasion, in indefensible borders, by seven
> national armies. Somehow Israel did.
>
> Thanks also to Kenneth Gelnick for correcting my terminology.
> Technicalities matter!
>
> 27.3K viewsView 308 upvotesView shares
> --------------------
>
> David Weiser
> August 28, 2020
> Good reply except for the part of Israel being established by a UN vote.
> Let’s put the myth that the UN created Israel to rest. It was the Jews
> who declared independence and fought for it.
>
> Profile photo for Daniel Schwartz
> Daniel Schwartz
> August 28, 2020
> Thanks! I’ve added a correction.
>
> Nagi Obad
> October 15, 2020
> It’s was the britts who handed it to you in the first place if you
> really want to call it for what it is.
>
> Yoel Ben-Avraham
> October 15, 2020
> Actually it was the League of Nations who *simultaneously* created what
> would become the countries of Lebanon,Syria,Iraq, Jordan and Saudia.
>
> The so called Balfour Declaration was simple the British Government's
> public endorsement of the movement that culumated with the League of
> Nation's decision at San Remo.
>
>
> Kenneth Gelnick
> August 29, 2020
> Mr. Schwartz, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that the modern State
> of Israel was established in 1948 or that the State of Israel was
> re-established in 1948. After all, it is the third (or is it the 4th)
> Jewish state in the Land of Israel.
>
> Profile photo for Daniel Schwartz
> Daniel Schwartz
> August 29, 2020
> Fair enough! Thanks.
>
> Timothy J Bradley
> October 22
> The Jews survived the Holocaust and pledged that “never again” would
> that happen. They meant exactly that. There is no way on God’s earth
> that they would refrain from using nuclear weapons if the existence of
> the state of Israel was threatened- at least I would hope they wouldn’t
> hesitate.
>
> Daniel Schwartz
> October 22
> Israel has never admitted owning nuclear weapons, although this is
> sometimes referred to as “the worst-kept secret in the Middle East”.
> Israel’s response to the question, unchanged since the 1960s, is that
> Israel will not be the first to introduce nuclear weapons into a Middle
> East conflict.
>
> If Israel does have nuclear weapons — which I assume it does — then they
> exist for precisely that purpose. If ever country X has the means to
> wipe out Israel in one stroke, Israel would deter such a move, by making
> sure that Country X would not survive such a move.
>
> Bob Smith
> September 23, 2020
> Your initial statement was correct: “It was established thanks to a
> near-miraculous UN vote.” Weiser is playing with semantics. Getting
> unity on the Security Council was miraculous. The fact that Israelis had
> to fight to defend their new state is simply a fact of history.
>
>
> Timothy J Bradley
> October 22
> Not a miracle. The USSR boycotted the Security Council, unless I am
> mistaken, in which case please correct me.
>
> Daniel Schwartz
> October 22
> The USSR did not boycott the UN Security Council vote of Nov. 29 1947.
> Crucially, it was because the USSR was there, voting for partition, that
> numerous USSR client states also voted for partition.
>
> Nobody expected the US and the USSR to vote on the same side in the UN.
> It would only happen a handful of times in history. But it happened that
> day, when it was utterly necessary to get a two-thirds vote in favor of
> partition. That’s why I called the vote “near-miraculous” from Israel’s
> point of view.
>
> Thomas Mitchell
> December 8
> As numerous Israeli historians have pointed out the Israeli victory in
> 1948 was not miraculous or even near-miraculous, but rather the result
> of much greater motivation and willingness to sacrifice on the part of
> the Jews than on the part of their Arab opponents. The Palestinians
> demonstrated in 1948 that they were not yet a nation but a collection of
> villages each of which made its own decision to either flee or make an
> arrangement with the local Zionist forces. After June 1948 in the
> subsequent phases of the war the IDF forces actually outnumbered their
> Arab opponents. The biggest danger that Israel faces isn’t from its Arab
> neighbors but from the demographic threat posed by the non-Zionist
> sectors (Arab, ultra-Orthodox) of the population. These sectors have
> greater birthrates than do the secular Jews and immigration from the
> diaspora is drying up.


Click here to read the complete article
Re: An interesting Quora How long will Israel survive as a nation-state?

<s5kd11$k38$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=736&group=soc.history.war.misc#736

 copy link   Newsgroups: soc.history.war.misc rec.aviation.military sci.military.naval
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: muratla...@gmail.com (Jim Wilkins)
Newsgroups: soc.history.war.misc,rec.aviation.military,sci.military.naval
Subject: Re: An interesting Quora How long will Israel survive as a nation-state?
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:01:16 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <s5kd11$k38$1@dont-email.me>
References: <s5iu1r01f3k@news4.newsguy.com> <69s2ntyvtm6z.427dw5do5qnc$.dlg@40tude.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
format=flowed;
charset="big5";
reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 17:01:21 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="0ee35cd7727b1ef3734bc6fdf5cb8880";
logging-data="20584"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18K9ajZtmk6UEYMj/TL2INhabf4t1WZC5o="
Cancel-Lock: sha1:FWEFP8FxhyM59nFD/XXsC8NbEZM=
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V16.4.3505.912
In-Reply-To: <69s2ntyvtm6z.427dw5do5qnc$.dlg@40tude.net>
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 16.4.3505.912
Importance: Normal
X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 210418-4, 04/18/2021), Outbound message
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
 by: Jim Wilkins - Mon, 19 Apr 2021 17:01 UTC

"SolomonW" wrote in message
news:69s2ntyvtm6z.427dw5do5qnc$.dlg@40tude.net...

..............
How long does any country survive?

I would not believe in 1985 that within
a few years, the USSR would no longer exist?

----------------------

The governments of France, Germany, Austria, Italy, Spain, Russia, Japan and
China have all fallen one or more times since the start of the USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republics

Usually but not always the people remain to start over.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kohba_revolt

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor