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interests / rec.gardens.edible / Re: scarification: is this a joke?

SubjectAuthor
* scarification: is this a joke?T
`* Re: scarification: is this a joke?songbird
 `* Re: scarification: is this a joke?T
  `* Re: scarification: is this a joke?songbird
   +* Re: scarification: is this a joke?T
   |`* Re: scarification: is this a joke?songbird
   | +* Re: scarification: is this a joke?Bob F
   | |`* Re: scarification: is this a joke?songbird
   | | `* Re: scarification: is this a joke?Bob F
   | |  `- Re: scarification: is this a joke?songbird
   | `* Re: scarification: is this a joke?T
   |  `* Re: scarification: is this a joke?songbird
   |   +* Re: scarification: is this a joke?T
   |   |`- Re: scarification: is this a joke?songbird
   |   `* Re: scarification: is this a joke?Bob F
   |    `- Re: scarification: is this a joke?songbird
   `* Re: scarification: is this a joke?Bob F
    `- Re: scarification: is this a joke?songbird

1
scarification: is this a joke?

<u7vq6l$3r8k5$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: scarification: is this a joke?
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2023 17:47:17 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: T - Tue, 4 Jul 2023 00:47 UTC

Hi All,
Is this a joke?
https://morningchores.com/growing-thimbleberries/
Birds spread the seeds in the wild, so to start
thimbleberry seeds, it’s essential to mimic this
and use cold stratification and scarification
to germinate the seeds.
When the seeds go through the bird’s digestive
system, it damages the seed’s outer coating.
To replicate this effect, use sandpaper or a
small knife to damage the outer coat of the seeds.
We have a whole guide on this process, which is
known as scarification, if you’ve never done
it before.
Then, place them in a bag or jar and put them
in the freezer for several months before
planting outside. After that, it’s time to
plant the seeds in six-inch containers. Put
them in the ground when they’re 3-inches tall.
The process can be a bit of a pain, so most opt
not to use this method

Thimble berry sees are really small too. Cut them
with a knife?
-T

Re: scarification: is this a joke?

<j5ccnj-g2p.ln1@anthive.com>

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: scarification: is this a joke?
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2023 22:18:59 -0400
Organization: the little wild kingdom
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <j5ccnj-g2p.ln1@anthive.com>
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 by: songbird - Tue, 4 Jul 2023 02:18 UTC

T wrote:
....
> The process can be a bit of a pain, so most opt
> not to use this method
>
>
> Thimble berry sees are really small too. Cut them
> with a knife?

don't need to cut them but nick them a bit is all.

yes, it's not a joke, but most of what i grow
here doesn't have such requirements.

songbird

Re: scarification: is this a joke?

<u803f7$3vok6$2@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: scarification: is this a joke?
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2023 20:25:27 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: T - Tue, 4 Jul 2023 03:25 UTC

On 7/3/23 19:18, songbird wrote:
> T wrote:
> ...
>> The process can be a bit of a pain, so most opt
>> not to use this method
>>
>>
>> Thimble berry sees are really small too. Cut them
>> with a knife?
>
> don't need to cut them but nick them a bit is all.
>
> yes, it's not a joke, but most of what i grow
> here doesn't have such requirements.
>
>
> songbird

You would need jewels glasses to see them!
I think I will break down and spend the
$30 and buy a plant.

Re: scarification: is this a joke?

<pgadnj-g42.ln1@anthive.com>

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: scarification: is this a joke?
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2023 06:56:57 -0400
Organization: the little wild kingdom
Lines: 27
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 by: songbird - Tue, 4 Jul 2023 10:56 UTC

T wrote:
....thimbleberries...
> You would need jewels glasses to see them!
> I think I will break down and spend the
> $30 and buy a plant.

your conditions are likely completely
inhospitable for them - i'd not waste the $.

i used to live in the Upper Peninsula of
Michigan where they grew in the wild. they
did not grow in an arid hot climate - i would
find them growing in the woods and along the
edges where it was usually partly shaded and
cool and moist almost constantly.

where you are at i think they'd fry.

on top of that they have a very unusual
flavor - i found it rather cloyingly sweet and
just barely edible but i'd rather grow
raspberries if given the choice (and i liked
the golden raspberry variety the best - but
that is my own personal preference :).

songbird

Re: scarification: is this a joke?

<u8259t$7drr$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: scarification: is this a joke?
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2023 15:09:01 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In-Reply-To: <pgadnj-g42.ln1@anthive.com>
 by: T - Tue, 4 Jul 2023 22:09 UTC

On 7/4/23 03:56, songbird wrote:
> T wrote:
> ...thimbleberries...
>> You would need jewels glasses to see them!
>> I think I will break down and spend the
>> $30 and buy a plant.
>
> your conditions are likely completely
> inhospitable for them - i'd not waste the $.
>
> i used to live in the Upper Peninsula of
> Michigan where they grew in the wild. they
> did not grow in an arid hot climate - i would
> find them growing in the woods and along the
> edges where it was usually partly shaded and
> cool and moist almost constantly.
>
> where you are at i think they'd fry.

Not to mention the 7% humidity. They
probably would not have a chance to call
me any names before they withered.

> on top of that they have a very unusual
> flavor - i found it rather cloyingly sweet and
> just barely edible but i'd rather grow
> raspberries if given the choice (and i liked
> the golden raspberry variety the best - but
> that is my own personal preference :).
>
>
> songbird

You just talked me out of it. Especially
the "cloying" part, meaning too high
carbs for me. Most wild plants are
not too high in carbs because they have
not been hybridized.

Since you eat mostly whole food with some
SAD (Standard American Diet) thrown in, you
probably can not taste sweet things down
as low as I can. I am on the Historically
Appropriate Human Diet (A.K.A. Keto), which
make me able to enjoy things like choke
berries, where folks on SAD would instantly
spit them out. So if you think thimbleberries
are "cloying", I would absolute gag on them!

And being wild, most of that sugar would be
coming from inulin, meaning farts. (Small
amounts are fine. But "cloying" means ....)

I am really, really interested in those
wild black raspberries you mentioned in
another letter!

Thank you!
-T

Re: scarification: is this a joke?

<u831qq$e70l$3@dont-email.me>

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From: bobnos...@gmail.com (Bob F)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: scarification: is this a joke?
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2023 23:15:51 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Bob F - Wed, 5 Jul 2023 06:15 UTC

On 7/4/2023 3:56 AM, songbird wrote:
> T wrote:
> ...thimbleberries...
>> You would need jewels glasses to see them!
>> I think I will break down and spend the
>> $30 and buy a plant.
>
> your conditions are likely completely
> inhospitable for them - i'd not waste the $.
>
> i used to live in the Upper Peninsula of
> Michigan where they grew in the wild. they
> did not grow in an arid hot climate - i would
> find them growing in the woods and along the
> edges where it was usually partly shaded and
> cool and moist almost constantly.
>
> where you are at i think they'd fry.
>
> on top of that they have a very unusual
> flavor - i found it rather cloyingly sweet and
> just barely edible but i'd rather grow
> raspberries if given the choice (and i liked
> the golden raspberry variety the best - but
> that is my own personal preference :).

My first kiss for my delightful wife was a thimbleberry kiss. Definitely
surprised her.

Re: scarification: is this a joke?

<jr1gnj-533.ln1@anthive.com>

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: scarification: is this a joke?
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2023 07:47:31 -0400
Organization: the little wild kingdom
Lines: 10
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 by: songbird - Wed, 5 Jul 2023 11:47 UTC

Bob F wrote:
....
> My first kiss for my delightful wife was a thimbleberry kiss. Definitely
> surprised her.

haha! i could not do that to someone
(i'd be worried about allergies and...).

songbird

Re: scarification: is this a joke?

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: scarification: is this a joke?
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2023 07:46:08 -0400
Organization: the little wild kingdom
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 by: songbird - Wed, 5 Jul 2023 11:46 UTC

T wrote:

....thimbleberries...

> You just talked me out of it. Especially
> the "cloying" part, meaning too high
> carbs for me. Most wild plants are
> not too high in carbs because they have
> not been hybridized.
>
> Since you eat mostly whole food with some
> SAD (Standard American Diet) thrown in, you
> probably can not taste sweet things down
> as low as I can. I am on the Historically
> Appropriate Human Diet (A.K.A. Keto), which
> make me able to enjoy things like choke
> berries, where folks on SAD would instantly
> spit them out. So if you think thimbleberries
> are "cloying", I would absolute gag on them!

i've greatly reduced my sugar intake
compared to my diet of years ago, also we
do not add salt to our normal cooking so
yes, i do notice when things are sweet
very easily. i also happen to have very
good senses of taste and smell. so i
think you are assuming a lot about my
diet that isn't particularly accurate.

> And being wild, most of that sugar would be
> coming from inulin, meaning farts. (Small
> amounts are fine. But "cloying" means ....)
>
> I am really, really interested in those
> wild black raspberries you mentioned in
> another letter!

got that covered in my previous post.
i'm not sure they're available to certain
areas as they may be considered invasive
or pest species or it may just be too
difficult for them in highly alkaline
soils to even get started so perhaps
they would not spread much in the wild.
around here the birds will move them
all over once they're growing (same as
the red raspberries).

songbird

Re: scarification: is this a joke?

<u83tnp$hlhn$1@dont-email.me>

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From: bobnos...@gmail.com (Bob F)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: scarification: is this a joke?
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2023 07:12:04 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Bob F - Wed, 5 Jul 2023 14:12 UTC

On 7/5/2023 4:46 AM, songbird wrote:
> T wrote:
>
> ...thimbleberries...
>
>> You just talked me out of it. Especially
>> the "cloying" part, meaning too high
>> carbs for me. Most wild plants are
>> not too high in carbs because they have
>> not been hybridized.
>>
>> Since you eat mostly whole food with some
>> SAD (Standard American Diet) thrown in, you
>> probably can not taste sweet things down
>> as low as I can. I am on the Historically
>> Appropriate Human Diet (A.K.A. Keto), which
>> make me able to enjoy things like choke
>> berries, where folks on SAD would instantly
>> spit them out. So if you think thimbleberries
>> are "cloying", I would absolute gag on them!
>
> i've greatly reduced my sugar intake
> compared to my diet of years ago, also we
> do not add salt to our normal cooking so
> yes, i do notice when things are sweet
> very easily. i also happen to have very
> good senses of taste and smell. so i
> think you are assuming a lot about my
> diet that isn't particularly accurate.
>

I would describe tiny thimbleberries as a raspberry like flavor,
different but similarly intense. But there are never enough ripe to whet
my appetite for them. Just enough to tease.

Re: scarification: is this a joke?

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: scarification: is this a joke?
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2023 14:41:27 -0400
Organization: the little wild kingdom
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <n3qgnj-1n8.ln1@anthive.com>
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 by: songbird - Wed, 5 Jul 2023 18:41 UTC

Bob F wrote:
....
> I would describe tiny thimbleberries as a raspberry like flavor,
> different but similarly intense. But there are never enough ripe to whet
> my appetite for them. Just enough to tease.

i could pick them and they were mostly indeed
thimble sized. i made jam a few times using them
and could not really like it as much as i would
a red or black raspberry or blackberry jam.

i do know that some people do enjoy it and i
for sure would not try to stop them from growing
or enjoying them.

songbird

Re: scarification: is this a joke?

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: scarification: is this a joke?
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2023 13:57:20 -0700
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 by: T - Wed, 5 Jul 2023 20:57 UTC

On 7/5/23 04:46, songbird wrote:
> i've greatly reduced my sugar intake
> compared to my diet of years ago, also we
> do not add salt to our normal cooking so
> yes, i do notice when things are sweet
> very easily. i also happen to have very
> good senses of taste and smell. so i
> think you are assuming a lot about my
> diet that isn't particularly accurate.

My sugar intake is zero, except what is naturally
occurring in some of the fruit I can have.

I was basing my remark on what you are able to
eat that I am not, such as potatoes, beans,
winter squash, etc.. I do miss beans.

What is the same in our diets is that we
both consume whole foods. You are able to
consume things from the SAD that I can not,
such as bread, wheat, rice, corn, potatoes,
sweat potatoes, apples, oranges,etc.. I am
not sure I presumed too much.

But, since you are now able to notice sweet at
a lower level, which is awesome, you are not
venturing into the SAD very much if at all.

Are you able to pick up the nuances in
blueberries yet? that one really shocked
me. I thought they were just slightly sweet.

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From: bobnos...@gmail.com (Bob F)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: scarification: is this a joke?
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2023 17:45:05 -0700
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 by: Bob F - Thu, 6 Jul 2023 00:45 UTC

On 7/5/2023 11:41 AM, songbird wrote:
> Bob F wrote:
> ...
>> I would describe tiny thimbleberries as a raspberry like flavor,
>> different but similarly intense. But there are never enough ripe to whet
>> my appetite for them. Just enough to tease.
>
> i could pick them and they were mostly indeed
> thimble sized. i made jam a few times using them
> and could not really like it as much as i would
> a red or black raspberry or blackberry jam.
>
> i do know that some people do enjoy it and i
> for sure would not try to stop them from growing
> or enjoying them.

The one I get are wild, in the parks or mountains. Thimble size would be
the extreme example.

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: scarification: is this a joke?
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2023 18:31:04 -0400
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 by: songbird - Thu, 6 Jul 2023 22:31 UTC

T wrote:
....
> winter squash, etc.. I do miss beans.

green beans are not too carb heavy.

> What is the same in our diets is that we
> both consume whole foods. You are able to
> consume things from the SAD that I can not,
> such as bread, wheat, rice, corn, potatoes,
> sweat potatoes, apples, oranges,etc.. I am
> not sure I presumed too much.

hmm, corn isn't common in my diet and i'm
also not much of a rice eater. i used to eat
more brown rice but i would also cook it with
lentils since they had about the same cooking
time. regular potatoes are a once in a while
item and sweet potatoes i could eat more
often but we don't always keep them on hand.

....
> Are you able to pick up the nuances in
> blueberries yet? that one really shocked
> me. I thought they were just slightly sweet.

Mom gets blueberries all the time and in the
off seasons they come from places in Central
or South America. many of them don't taste
very good to me and sometimes they don't taste
very good to her either but she'll eat them
anyways. Michigan usually has a pretty good
blueberry season so i prefer to eat them when
they are local and fresh. as a kid we could
go out into the fields behind where we lived
and pick all we could eat. they were the
shorter wild types.

songbird

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: scarification: is this a joke?
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2023 18:19:30 -0400
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 by: songbird - Thu, 6 Jul 2023 22:19 UTC

Bob F wrote:
....
> The one I get are wild, in the parks or mountains. Thimble size would be
> the extreme example.

i picked them wild too, on a forested hillside.
the very last time i went picking i'd gotten about
half a bowl full and was reaching for a really
nice big one when my foot slipped and i fell and
dumped them all out. and then too were the nice
ones you'd see and go to reach for them and they'd
fall off the plant. grrr! :)

songbird

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: scarification: is this a joke?
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2023 19:37:19 -0700
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 by: T - Fri, 7 Jul 2023 02:37 UTC

On 7/6/23 15:31, songbird wrote:
>> winter squash, etc.. I do miss beans.

> green beans are not too carb heavy.

They are fine for a T0 but not for a T2.
With the whole foods that you eat, I would
be extremely surprised if you ever developed
T2.

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From: bobnos...@gmail.com (Bob F)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: scarification: is this a joke?
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2023 20:58:16 -0700
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 by: Bob F - Fri, 7 Jul 2023 03:58 UTC

On 7/6/2023 3:31 PM, songbird wrote:
> T wrote:
> ...
>> winter squash, etc.. I do miss beans.
>
> green beans are not too carb heavy.
>
>
>> What is the same in our diets is that we
>> both consume whole foods. You are able to
>> consume things from the SAD that I can not,
>> such as bread, wheat, rice, corn, potatoes,
>> sweat potatoes, apples, oranges,etc.. I am
>> not sure I presumed too much.
>
> hmm, corn isn't common in my diet and i'm
> also not much of a rice eater. i used to eat
> more brown rice but i would also cook it with
> lentils since they had about the same cooking
> time. regular potatoes are a once in a while
> item and sweet potatoes i could eat more
> often but we don't always keep them on hand.
>
>
> ...
>> Are you able to pick up the nuances in
>> blueberries yet? that one really shocked
>> me. I thought they were just slightly sweet.
>
> Mom gets blueberries all the time and in the
> off seasons they come from places in Central
> or South America. many of them don't taste
> very good to me and sometimes they don't taste
> very good to her either but she'll eat them
> anyways.

Perhaps because they are picked too early for shipping.

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: scarification: is this a joke?
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2023 12:35:45 -0400
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 by: songbird - Fri, 7 Jul 2023 16:35 UTC

Bob F wrote:
....blueberries...
> Perhaps because they are picked too early for shipping.

we've had some that were really good and then
the next batch were bad, it really varies. also
we've had some from prime growing places and they
were tasteless. some that she had two weeks ago
from Mexico were horrible, hard and tasteless.
the ones she just got from New Jersey are good.
all over the place...

even the prime MI season ones sometimes do not
have great flavor.

songbird

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: scarification: is this a joke?
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2023 12:32:50 -0400
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 by: songbird - Fri, 7 Jul 2023 16:32 UTC

T wrote:
> On 7/6/23 15:31, songbird wrote:
>>> winter squash, etc.. I do miss beans.
>
>> green beans are not too carb heavy.
>
> They are fine for a T0 but not for a T2.
> With the whole foods that you eat, I would
> be extremely surprised if you ever developed
> T2.

some relatives are borderline T2 so i've
been trying to take it more easy on myself
and also to get my weight back to where i
feel much better. another 10-12 lbs and
i'll be good. hope i can peel at least half
of that off in the next month or two before
it starts to get cool again.

songbird

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