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interests / rec.games.frp.dnd / January 27th: 50 years of D&D

SubjectAuthor
* January 27th: 50 years of D&Dlkh
+* Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&DSpalls Hurgenson
|`- Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&DJustisaur
+* Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&Dgbbgu
|`- Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&DSpalls Hurgenson
+- Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&Dkyonshi
+* Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&Dkyonshi
|`* Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&DLaurens Kils-Hütten
| `* Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&Dkyonshi
|  `* Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&Dlkh
|   `* Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&Dkyonshi
|    `* Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&Dlkh
|     `- Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&Dkyonshi
+* Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&DTimmy Mac
|`* Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&Dkyonshi
| `* Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&Dlkh
|  +* Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&Dkyonshi
|  |`* Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&Dlkh
|  | +- Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&Dkyonshi
|  | `* Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&Dgbbgu
|  |  `- Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&DKyonshi
|  `* Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&DJustisaur
|   +* Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&Dlkh
|   |`- Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&DJustisaur
|   `- Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&Dkyonshi
`- Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&DUbiquitous

Pages:12
January 27th: 50 years of D&D

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From: lkh...@sdf-eu.org (lkh)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 11:14:33 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: lkh - Fri, 12 Jan 2024 11:14 UTC

January 27th will be 50 years of D&D.

What are everyone's plans to celebrate the day?

cheers,

~lkh

--
"My mind goes out, lying awake at night, searching through the
black barrenness of space for something - anything - which will
take me to it, warm me, protect me, tell me that there is order in
the chaotic tumble of the universe; that it is consistent, this
precision of planets, not simply a brief, bright spark of sanity
in an eternity of malevolent anarchy."

-- Elric of Melniboné [Michael Moorcock, "The Stealer of Souls"]

Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D

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From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 11:05:44 -0500
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Fri, 12 Jan 2024 16:05 UTC

On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 11:14:33 -0000 (UTC), lkh <lkh@sdf-eu.org> wrote:

>January 27th will be 50 years of D&D.
>
>What are everyone's plans to celebrate the day?

Looking sadly at my pile of rulebooks, probably.

Sadly, since Covid, my two groups sort of went their separete ways and
we haven't been playing, and I'm not really interested in playing
online (if you can't throw peanuts at the DM after a bad ruling,
what's even the point of playing the game? ;-).

I could find a new group, but given my preference for the older
systems (and low-magic style of campaigns) I've little chance of
finding one... especially in this area, where roleplaying groups seem
a rarity.

Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D

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Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
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 by: gbbgu - Sat, 13 Jan 2024 03:53 UTC

On 12 Jan 2024, lkh wrote:

> January 27th will be 50 years of D&D.
>
> What are everyone's plans to celebrate the day?
>
> cheers,
>
> ~lkh

Get a group together and play some old school, DTRPG have these on sale:

0e OD&D:

https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/28306/od-d-dungeons-dragons-original-edition-0e

B/X:

https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/110274/d-d-basic-set-rulebook-b-x-ed-basic

https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/110792/d-d-expert-set-rulebook-b-x-ed-basic

Rules Cyclopedia:

https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/17171/d-d-rules-cyclopedia-basic

If the old rulesbooks aren't your thing, OSE Classic is 100% BX compatable but
better organised:

https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/279183/old-school-essentials-classic-fantasy-rules-tome

B1 In Search of the Unknown:

https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/17081/b1-in-search-of-the-unknown-basic

B2 Keep on the Borderlands:

https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/17158/b2-the-keep-on-the-borderlands-basic

--
gbbgu

Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D

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From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 09:34:51 -0500
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Sat, 13 Jan 2024 14:34 UTC

On Sat, 13 Jan 2024 03:53:51 GMT, gbbgu <gbbgu@gbbgu.com> wrote:
>On 12 Jan 2024, lkh wrote:

>> January 27th will be 50 years of D&D.
>> What are everyone's plans to celebrate the day?

>Get a group together and play some old school, DTRPG have these on sale:

Is it /really/ old-school if you're reading the books digitally? ;-)

Go dig up your old manuals and squint at the blurry, un-illuminated
texts as was required when the game was first written.

Bonus: you can literally throw the rulebook at players when they break
the rules. I mean, sure you could do that with the digitial versions
too... if you don't mind cracking the screen on your
tablet/laptop/whatever...

Next you'll be suggesting we use a dice-rolling app instead of
breaking out the bones and rolling the dice for ourselves. Heathen!
;-);-);-)

Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D

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From: gmke...@gmail.com (kyonshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 16:18:46 +0100
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 by: kyonshi - Sat, 13 Jan 2024 15:18 UTC

On 1/12/2024 12:14 PM, lkh wrote:
> January 27th will be 50 years of D&D.
>
> What are everyone's plans to celebrate the day?
>
> cheers,
>
> ~lkh
>
>

maybe I should get together my first game in ages and use my own
houserules for it. after all the original books were more a toolkit for
creating your own fantastic medieval campaigns than proper worked out
rules. so I should use my own rules for my own game.

Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D

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From: justis...@yahoo.com (Justisaur)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 09:21:24 -0800
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 by: Justisaur - Sat, 13 Jan 2024 17:21 UTC

On 1/12/2024 8:05 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 11:14:33 -0000 (UTC), lkh <lkh@sdf-eu.org> wrote:
>
>> January 27th will be 50 years of D&D.
>>
>> What are everyone's plans to celebrate the day?
>
> Looking sadly at my pile of rulebooks, probably.
>
> Sadly, since Covid, my two groups sort of went their separete ways and
> we haven't been playing, and I'm not really interested in playing
> online (if you can't throw peanuts at the DM after a bad ruling,
> what's even the point of playing the game? ;-).

Pretty much the same, except is was pennies and dice, fortunately a rare
occurrence since I DM'ed mostly, which was my response to bad DMing. I
did have pennies and die fly by me on a couple occasions though.

>
> I could find a new group, but given my preference for the older
> systems (and low-magic style of campaigns) I've little chance of
> finding one... especially in this area, where roleplaying groups seem
> a rarity.

Also the same. I dislike 5e for being slow, unnecessarily complex for
what it accomplishes, and worst of all boring due to a number of rules
which make almost all combats similar - same number of monsters as party
of about equal level is all that really works.

I don't mind online, but not 5e. My 'new' home has no room to do
anything unfortunately too.

Lastly I don't seem to have the creativity or more likely the will to
get through all the time and work required to make adventures any more,
and for the most part I find pre-made ones require as much or more work
to make good.

Unlike sex, no D&D is better than bad D&D.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D

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From: gmke...@gmail.com (kyonshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2024 10:47:05 +0100
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 by: kyonshi - Tue, 16 Jan 2024 09:47 UTC

On 1/12/2024 12:14 PM, lkh wrote:
> January 27th will be 50 years of D&D.
Did it actually come out so early in the year?
And wouldn't it make sense to count from the start of the First Fantasy
Campaign instead? I know 1974 is when it was published, but by that
point people already were roleplaying for a few years.

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From: lkh...@sdf-eu.org (Laurens Kils-Hütten)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2024 13:55:34 +0100
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 by: Laurens Kils-Hütten - Tue, 16 Jan 2024 12:55 UTC

Am 16.01.2024 um 10:47 schrieb kyonshi:
> On 1/12/2024 12:14 PM, lkh wrote:
>> January 27th will be 50 years of D&D > Did it actually come out so early in the year?

it's been widely discussed, but January 27th seems to be the best guess:

https://playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2019/01/d-45th-birthday.html

> And wouldn't it make sense to count from the start of the First Fantasy
> Campaign instead? I know 1974 is when it was published, but by that
> point people already were roleplaying for a few years.

That would be April 17th, 1971:

Dave Arneson's "Corner of the Table" Zine had the following announcement:

'There will be a medieval "Braunstein" April 17, 1971 at the
home of David Arneson from 1300 hrs to 2400 hrs with refreshments being
available on the usual basis... It will feature mythical creatures and a
Poker game under the Troll’s bridge between sunup and sundown.
[COTT:71:v3n4]'

--
~lkh procrastinating at work

Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D

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From: gmke...@gmail.com (kyonshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2024 15:10:59 +0100
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 by: kyonshi - Tue, 16 Jan 2024 14:10 UTC

On 1/16/2024 1:55 PM, Laurens Kils-Hütten wrote:
> Am 16.01.2024 um 10:47 schrieb kyonshi:
>> On 1/12/2024 12:14 PM, lkh wrote:
>>> January 27th will be 50 years of D&D > Did it actually come out so
>>> early in the year?
>
> it's been widely discussed, but January 27th seems to be the best guess:
>
> https://playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2019/01/d-45th-birthday.html
>
>> And wouldn't it make sense to count from the start of the First
>> Fantasy Campaign instead? I know 1974 is when it was published, but by
>> that point people already were roleplaying for a few years.
>
> That would be April 17th, 1971:
>
> Dave Arneson's "Corner of the Table" Zine had the following announcement:
>
> 'There will be a medieval "Braunstein" April 17, 1971 at the
> home of David Arneson from 1300 hrs to 2400 hrs with refreshments being
> available on the usual basis... It will feature mythical creatures and a
> Poker game under the Troll’s bridge between sunup and sundown.
> [COTT:71:v3n4]'
>

which of course gets us to the interesting chicken and egg problem of:
how do we delineate Braunstein from DnD in this case. After all he
doesn't say they are playing Chainmail even, he speaks about Braunstein.
Which also wasn't a codified ruleset as far as I know.

(was there ever a published version of how those Braunstein rules looked
like? I know there was that Barons of Braunstein game on drivethrurpg at
one point, but that one seems to be a bit of ludological fiction)

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From: lkh...@sdf-eu.org (lkh)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2024 22:18:18 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: lkh - Tue, 16 Jan 2024 22:18 UTC

kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dave Arneson's "Corner of the Table" Zine had the following announcement:
>>
>> 'There will be a medieval "Braunstein" April 17, 1971 at the
>> home of David Arneson from 1300 hrs to 2400 hrs with refreshments being
>> available on the usual basis... It will feature mythical creatures and a
>> Poker game under the Troll’s bridge between sunup and sundown.
>> [COTT:71:v3n4]'
>
> which of course gets us to the interesting chicken and egg problem of:
> how do we delineate Braunstein from DnD in this case. After all he
> doesn't say they are playing Chainmail even, he speaks about Braunstein.
> Which also wasn't a codified ruleset as far as I know.

As far as I understand it, said Braunstein game led to the first ever dungeon
crawl which probably used some Chainmail derived rules.

> (was there ever a published version of how those Braunstein rules looked
> like? I know there was that Barons of Braunstein game on drivethrurpg at
> one point, but that one seems to be a bit of ludological fiction)

I believe there wasn't. But I think Dave Wesley still runs Braunstein games
now and then. Ben Robins shares some hands on experience and hand outs:

https://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/106/braunstein-memories/

Anyway, seems like on the 27th, we're going to play 3LBB OD&D with family and
friends. I thinking about using the Tonisborg Dungeon as a scenario.

--
"I see only chaos in the world"

-- Elric of Melniboné [Michael Moorcock, "The Stealer of Souls"]

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From: gmke...@gmail.com (kyonshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2024 12:49:27 +0100
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 by: kyonshi - Thu, 18 Jan 2024 11:49 UTC

On 1/16/2024 11:18 PM, lkh wrote:

>
> I believe there wasn't. But I think Dave Wesley still runs Braunstein games
> now and then. Ben Robins shares some hands on experience and hand outs:
>
> https://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/106/braunstein-memories/
>

Hmm... that game was 16 years ago.
I checked on Wikipedia and he seems to be still alive at least. Which is
nice to know.

I also saw that there is an interview with Arneson about it in Pegasus
Magazine #1, I should see if I still have that somewhere.

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From: lkh...@sdf-eu.org (lkh)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2024 13:14:30 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: lkh - Thu, 18 Jan 2024 13:14 UTC

kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/16/2024 11:18 PM, lkh wrote:
>
>>
>> I believe there wasn't. But I think Dave Wesley still runs Braunstein games
>> now and then. Ben Robins shares some hands on experience and hand outs:
>>
>> https://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/106/braunstein-memories/
>>
>
> Hmm... that game was 16 years ago.
> I checked on Wikipedia and he seems to be still alive at least. Which is
> nice to know.
>
> I also saw that there is an interview with Arneson about it in Pegasus
> Magazine #1, I should see if I still have that somewhere.

Oh wow, just in case you'll find it, maybe some scans would be in order?

Cheers,

lkh

--
PGP: 96E6 B345 4882 A63F B840 AD9A 9C61 FDAD 8559 7E91

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From: gmke...@gmail.com (kyonshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2024 14:52:41 +0100
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 by: kyonshi - Thu, 18 Jan 2024 13:52 UTC

On 1/18/2024 2:14 PM, lkh wrote:
> kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 1/16/2024 11:18 PM, lkh wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I believe there wasn't. But I think Dave Wesley still runs Braunstein games
>>> now and then. Ben Robins shares some hands on experience and hand outs:
>>>
>>> https://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/106/braunstein-memories/
>>>
>>
>> Hmm... that game was 16 years ago.
>> I checked on Wikipedia and he seems to be still alive at least. Which is
>> nice to know.
>>
>> I also saw that there is an interview with Arneson about it in Pegasus
>> Magazine #1, I should see if I still have that somewhere.
>
> Oh wow, just in case you'll find it, maybe some scans would be in order?
>
> Cheers,
>
> lkh
>

well, it's not much, but here's at least the relevant sections from
Pegasus Magazine #1 (1981) pg.5

Mr. Arneson: Back in 1972, I started
doing dungeon explorations with the
local gamers building up a set of rules
as we went along. I kept track of my
rules decisions in a big black notebook
as we went along so I didn't contradict
myself too often.
We were in correspondence with
the group from Lake Geneva through
the Napoleonic Campaigns at that
time, so we mentioned that we were
doing fantasy stuff on alternate week-
ends and they became very interested
in it. After I made several trips down
there so they could go down in my dungeon,
they became very excited
about it.
At the time, they had a lot more
spare time than I did and they had a
lot of ideas, so they came up with
their own version of the rules. They
sent theirs to us and we fooled around
with them for a while. We exchanged
letters for awhile and just kind of
slipped into it. It just felt natural that
Gary and I worked together on the
rules because the two groups were
associated and Gary and I had worked
together on projects before.

[...]

Mr. Arneson: Well, IS I've quoted in
other articles, I was judging Napa·
leonics so much that I just started
getting tired of it. That happens after
you do the same thing for three or
four years. So I began with I variation
of Dave Wesely's Brownstine [sic!] game
where you go into some Banana
Republic. Your object was to become
dictator or try to overthrow the
govemment or something like that.
You had a role that you were playing.
I just applied the idea of having a role
to being in a fantasy world (an idea I
got from reading Conan for awhile).
I had a weekend off, so I sat up
reading books, eating popcorn, and
watching the boob tube. I drew up a
maze and populated it with creatures.
Then the next time someone showed
up for Napoleonics I said that we were
going to do something different. Un-
fortunately, at that time I visualized
that I wouldn't have to keep track of
all those records and maps. I reallv
thought that it was going to be easy
(just draw up one map and use it for·
ever along with all kinds of other ideas
on how to make things easy for the
Judge). Needless to say, my illusions
were soon shattered but I had gotten
excited about it because it was differ·
ent and I wasn't tied to historical
restraints. I could let mv imagination
run rampent [sic] which it wasn't usually
allowed to do. By the time I was done,
there was little left of Wesely
or Conan but a lot of rules for fantasy
role plaving!

Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D

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From: nurecove...@aleeas.com (Timmy Mac)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2024 14:42:06 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Timmy Mac - Sat, 20 Jan 2024 14:42 UTC

On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 11:14:33 -0000 (UTC), lkh wrote:

> January 27th will be 50 years of D&D.
>
> What are everyone's plans to celebrate the day?

I've still got my Moldvay Basic book and B2 - Keep on the Borderlands. I'm
thinking I can talk a few friends into an afternoon session.

-
TM

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From: gmke...@gmail.com (kyonshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2024 22:57:34 +0100
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 by: kyonshi - Sat, 20 Jan 2024 21:57 UTC

On 1/20/2024 3:42 PM, Timmy Mac wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 11:14:33 -0000 (UTC), lkh wrote:
>
>> January 27th will be 50 years of D&D.
>>
>> What are everyone's plans to celebrate the day?
>
> I've still got my Moldvay Basic book and B2 - Keep on the Borderlands. I'm
> thinking I can talk a few friends into an afternoon session.
>
> -
> TM
>

do it. sounds like a good idea.

Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D

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From: lkh...@sdf-eu.org (lkh)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 22:31:47 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: lkh - Wed, 24 Jan 2024 22:31 UTC

kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/20/2024 3:42 PM, Timmy Mac wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 11:14:33 -0000 (UTC), lkh wrote:
>>
>>> January 27th will be 50 years of D&D.
>>>
>>> What are everyone's plans to celebrate the day?
>>
>> I've still got my Moldvay Basic book and B2 - Keep on the Borderlands. I'm
>> thinking I can talk a few friends into an afternoon session.
>>
>> -
>> TM
>>
>
> do it. sounds like a good idea.

We'll have an in person game. OD&D three little black books
strictly, no thieves, no variable weapon damage, everything d6
based. Just plain vanilla OD&D.

For a scenario I have picked Will Doyle's *Quintessential
Dungeon*[1]. Seems like a fun dungeon romp. And it actually
*has* a Dragon. So I think that should work out just fine. Then
again, we'll have two participants, who've never player before.

Now do I *want* them to break in their role player shoes in a
dank old dungeon? Hm, not so sure about that. Maybe I should
just present them with a very open ended scene and let them
decide, what they think is interesting about the game? You've
only one chance to do something *for the first time* after all,
and it's always so much fun to observe new players how they
discover what the game can be. I'll have to think some more
about that ;-)

Cheers!

[1]: https://beholderpie.blogspot.com/2016/05/one-page-dungeon-2016-quintessential.html

--
https://sdf-eu.org/~lkh

Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D

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From: gmke...@gmail.com (kyonshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 13:20:53 +0100
Organization: Campaign Wiki
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 by: kyonshi - Thu, 25 Jan 2024 12:20 UTC

On 1/24/2024 11:31 PM, lkh wrote:
> kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 1/20/2024 3:42 PM, Timmy Mac wrote:
>>> On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 11:14:33 -0000 (UTC), lkh wrote:
>>>
>>>> January 27th will be 50 years of D&D.
>>>>
>>>> What are everyone's plans to celebrate the day?
>>>
>>> I've still got my Moldvay Basic book and B2 - Keep on the Borderlands. I'm
>>> thinking I can talk a few friends into an afternoon session.
>>>
>>> -
>>> TM
>>>
>>
>> do it. sounds like a good idea.
>
> We'll have an in person game. OD&D three little black books
> strictly, no thieves, no variable weapon damage, everything d6
> based. Just plain vanilla OD&D.
>
> For a scenario I have picked Will Doyle's *Quintessential
> Dungeon*[1]. Seems like a fun dungeon romp. And it actually
> *has* a Dragon. So I think that should work out just fine. Then
> again, we'll have two participants, who've never player before.
>
> Now do I *want* them to break in their role player shoes in a
> dank old dungeon? Hm, not so sure about that. Maybe I should
> just present them with a very open ended scene and let them
> decide, what they think is interesting about the game? You've
> only one chance to do something *for the first time* after all,
> and it's always so much fun to observe new players how they
> discover what the game can be. I'll have to think some more
> about that ;-)
>
> Cheers!
>
> [1]: https://beholderpie.blogspot.com/2016/05/one-page-dungeon-2016-quintessential.html
>

I looked at this one before and while i was chuckling, I never thought
this would be actually that fun to play. There's a few rather deadly
encounters in there right now which might easily kill all the fun the
party has.

One beginner dungeon I really like is Skerples' Tomb of the Serpent
Kings, which does try to be a teaching dungeon and does some really nice
things with very basic tropes.

https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.com/2017/06/osr-tomb-of-serpent-kings-megapost.html

Another one which I want to try for beginners but which might be a bit
too long for a one-shot is The Black Wyrm of Brandonsford. This one also
has some really nice fairy tale vibes going on (a dwarf who was so
greedy he turned into a dragon, goblins who are actually fairies, etc.).
And there is a small sandbox setting with multiple dungeons. Which, as I
said, might make it too long a scenario for a one-shot.

Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D

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From: justis...@yahoo.com (Justisaur)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 13:24:32 -0800
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 by: Justisaur - Thu, 25 Jan 2024 21:24 UTC

On 1/24/2024 2:31 PM, lkh wrote:
> kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 1/20/2024 3:42 PM, Timmy Mac wrote:
>>> On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 11:14:33 -0000 (UTC), lkh wrote:
>>>
>>>> January 27th will be 50 years of D&D.
>>>>
>>>> What are everyone's plans to celebrate the day?
>>>
>>> I've still got my Moldvay Basic book and B2 - Keep on the Borderlands. I'm
>>> thinking I can talk a few friends into an afternoon session.
>>>
>>> -
>>> TM
>>>
>>
>> do it. sounds like a good idea.
>
> We'll have an in person game. OD&D three little black books
> strictly, no thieves, no variable weapon damage, everything d6
> based. Just plain vanilla OD&D.
>
> For a scenario I have picked Will Doyle's *Quintessential
> Dungeon*[1]. Seems like a fun dungeon romp. And it actually
> *has* a Dragon. So I think that should work out just fine. Then
> again, we'll have two participants, who've never player before.
>
> Now do I *want* them to break in their role player shoes in a
> dank old dungeon? Hm, not so sure about that. Maybe I should
> just present them with a very open ended scene and let them
> decide, what they think is interesting about the game? You've
> only one chance to do something *for the first time* after all,
> and it's always so much fun to observe new players how they
> discover what the game can be. I'll have to think some more
> about that ;-)
>
> Cheers!
>
> [1]: https://beholderpie.blogspot.com/2016/05/one-page-dungeon-2016-quintessential.html
>

One problem with running a small group of newbies only with any old
school dungeon (and starting at level 1) is that the original game is
balanced for very large parties (one call sheet from the 70's I saw had
50 characters!) and a good amount of death is expected. This hasn't
gone over well in the past when I've tried it. I've even gone so far as
to go with the funnel concept and give everyone up to 4 characters, but
that's more effort than any but wargamers are willing to put in, and
still the number of deaths turned everyone off (even those who weren't
newbies and said that's the way it should be played.)

You can of course tweak the adventures to be friendlier to small
parties, add NPCs, buff up the character though leveling or rules
additions and changes etc. You can also go with what I strongly suspect
Gary did which was fudge a lot (which I don't like doing.)

I have a list of semi-official house rules such as Gygax purportedly
used last time I ran 0e which helped a little bit you might consider:

Gygax:
* HP, at 1st level bump up to a minimum of half your die size rounded up.
* Intelligence 15+ +1 1st level M-U spell slot
* Clerics don't need or use spell-books

I had a rather large list of other tweaks, but they were mostly more
flavor and minor changes. I was also running Delving Deeper which is
fairly close to 0e, just easier for newbies to understand.

The rest of my house rules were here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zHmsDJE19GeLLK-R7anjuyNScpmwSyQPhUYDarKcmRM/edit

I did run a bit of Dungeon Robber PBP not long ago, it went much longer
than I expected, and that went remarkably well, and is my best attempt
at PBP of anything, but it's a little further from 0e. I keep
considering trying it with the kids, but find that also needs some tweaks.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D

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From: lkh...@sdf-eu.org (lkh)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 23:05:37 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: lkh - Thu, 25 Jan 2024 23:05 UTC

kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
> One beginner dungeon I really like is Skerples' Tomb of the Serpent
> Kings, which does try to be a teaching dungeon and does some really nice
> things with very basic tropes.
>
> https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.com/2017/06/osr-tomb-of-serpent-kings-megapost.html

I was thinking about that one, too. It's a good teaching dungeon
at any rate. For the 27th I wanted to pick something a bit more
spectacular - hope it'll work out alright (-:

> Another one which I want to try for beginners but which might be a bit
> too long for a one-shot is The Black Wyrm of Brandonsford. This one also
> has some really nice fairy tale vibes going on (a dwarf who was so
> greedy he turned into a dragon, goblins who are actually fairies, etc.).
> And there is a small sandbox setting with multiple dungeons. Which, as I
> said, might make it too long a scenario for a one-shot.

Intersting I've never heard about this one.

/me fires up youtube

Oh, here's a review by Questing Beast:

https://youtu.be/FQi0fvUO0fY

I guess I'll check it out ;-)

Cheers,

lkh

--
PGP: 96E6 B345 4882 A63F B840 AD9A 9C61 FDAD 8559 7E91

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From: lkh...@sdf-eu.org (lkh)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 23:22:26 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: lkh - Thu, 25 Jan 2024 23:22 UTC

Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> [1]: https://beholderpie.blogspot.com/2016/05/one-page-dungeon-2016-quintessential.html
>>
>
> One problem with running a small group of newbies only with any old
> school dungeon (and starting at level 1) is that the original game is
> balanced for very large parties (one call sheet from the 70's I saw had
> 50 characters!) and a good amount of death is expected. This hasn't
> gone over well in the past when I've tried it. I've even gone so far as
> to go with the funnel concept and give everyone up to 4 characters, but
> that's more effort than any but wargamers are willing to put in, and
> still the number of deaths turned everyone off (even those who weren't
> newbies and said that's the way it should be played.)

Yep, know what you're talking about. I'm running a lot of OD&D
and there'll be some accompanying NPCs for sure. In
Quintessential Dungeon however I see a bunch of hints at
non-combat solutions for the various encounters. Also, there's
the feasting table where hitpoints may be regained. Even the
dragon has the explicit option of sparing the characters lives
provided they can tell a good story :D

I'm confidently looking forward to this, and might have the one
or other magic item up my sleeve ;-)

> You can of course tweak the adventures to be friendlier to small
> parties, add NPCs, buff up the character though leveling or rules
> additions and changes etc. You can also go with what I strongly suspect
> Gary did which was fudge a lot (which I don't like doing.)

I agree, I feel fudging the dice as a GM is an indication
something went wrong further up the line. Usually the call
for the roll was a mistake already. I think it's good practice
to make sure everyone knows what a roll is about. Be clear about
the stakes and let the player decide it they want to take the
risk or not.

> I have a list of semi-official house rules such as Gygax purportedly
> used last time I ran 0e which helped a little bit you might consider:
>
> Gygax:
> * HP, at 1st level bump up to a minimum of half your die size rounded up.
> * Intelligence 15+ +1 1st level M-U spell slot
> * Clerics don't need or use spell-books

Those sound familiar. There are some more on the cyclopatron blog:

https://cyclopeatron.blogspot.com/2010/03/gary-gygaxs-whitebox-od-house-rules.html

I think there is a PDF floating around, too
> I had a rather large list of other tweaks, but they were mostly more
> flavor and minor changes. I was also running Delving Deeper which is
> fairly close to 0e, just easier for newbies to understand.
>
> The rest of my house rules were here:
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zHmsDJE19GeLLK-R7anjuyNScpmwSyQPhUYDarKcmRM/edit
Thanks, I'll take a look asap!

Cheers,

--
~lkh

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From: gmke...@gmail.com (kyonshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 09:59:19 +0100
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 by: kyonshi - Fri, 26 Jan 2024 08:59 UTC

On 1/26/2024 12:05 AM, lkh wrote:

>
> Intersting I've never heard about this one.
>
> /me fires up youtube
>
> Oh, here's a review by Questing Beast:
>
> https://youtu.be/FQi0fvUO0fY
>
> I guess I'll check it out ;-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> lkh
>

I think it has a very Dolmenwood kind of vibe to it, but I was thinking
of using it in some corner of my home campaign somewhere. It just
doesn't quite fit in with the rest of my campaign assumptions, so I am
still wondering how to deal with that.
(specifically the dwarf-turned-dragon which is directly out of Germanic
myths, and the Goblins that are affected by things that affect fae; I
still am wondering if I should just have different goblins in various
places or make all goblins fae)

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From: gmke...@gmail.com (kyonshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 10:11:51 +0100
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 by: kyonshi - Fri, 26 Jan 2024 09:11 UTC

On 1/25/2024 10:24 PM, Justisaur wrote:

>
> The rest of my house rules were here:
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zHmsDJE19GeLLK-R7anjuyNScpmwSyQPhUYDarKcmRM/edit
>

from there:
> Spears are usable 2nd rank for melee, pole-arms 3rd rank.
This is one of those things I really need to add which I keep forgetting.

> Wielding two weapons gives 2 attacks, but both are at -3.

I saw an interesting point lately where someone pointed out that
carrying a second melee weapon should definitely be worse for attack,
but might actually be better for defense. Maybe it should give
additional AC points, similar to a shield.

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From: justis...@yahoo.com (Justisaur)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 08:34:33 -0800
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 by: Justisaur - Fri, 26 Jan 2024 16:34 UTC

On 1/25/2024 3:22 PM, lkh wrote:
> Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> [1]: https://beholderpie.blogspot.com/2016/05/one-page-dungeon-2016-quintessential.html
>>>
>>

I actually looked at this now, definitely seems for a bit higher level,
at least past the tavern brawl. I'd probably guess at 3rd maybe?

An interesting dungeon, I see it tries to cram all the tropes in. I
don't really care for all the empty space in the random dungeons, but
this seems like it's gone too far in the opposite direction. It'll
probably work for a one shot.

As it is a one shot, I don't really care for low level adventures anyway
for that.

>> One problem with running a small group of newbies only with any old
>> school dungeon (and starting at level 1) is that the original game is
>> balanced for very large parties (one call sheet from the 70's I saw had
>> 50 characters!) and a good amount of death is expected. This hasn't
>> gone over well in the past when I've tried it. I've even gone so far as
>> to go with the funnel concept and give everyone up to 4 characters, but
>> that's more effort than any but wargamers are willing to put in, and
>> still the number of deaths turned everyone off (even those who weren't
>> newbies and said that's the way it should be played.)
>
> Yep, know what you're talking about. I'm running a lot of OD&D
> and there'll be some accompanying NPCs for sure. In
> Quintessential Dungeon however I see a bunch of hints at
> non-combat solutions for the various encounters. Also, there's
> the feasting table where hitpoints may be regained. Even the
> dragon has the explicit option of sparing the characters lives
> provided they can tell a good story :D

> I'm confidently looking forward to this, and might have the one
> or other magic item up my sleeve ;-)

Sounds like you have a lot more experience than I, so pretend I didn't
say anything. :)

> https://cyclopeatron.blogspot.com/2010/03/gary-gygaxs-whitebox-od-house-rules.html

Ah, yeah I think that's where I pulled some of those from as well as
some I didn't mark in my own.

--
-Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D

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Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
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 by: gbbgu - Mon, 29 Jan 2024 05:04 UTC

On 26 Jan 2024, lkh wrote:

> kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
>> One beginner dungeon I really like is Skerples' Tomb of the Serpent
>> Kings, which does try to be a teaching dungeon and does some really nice
>> things with very basic tropes.
>>
>> https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.com/2017/06/osr-tomb-of-serpent-kings-megapost.html
>
> I was thinking about that one, too. It's a good teaching dungeon
> at any rate. For the 27th I wanted to pick something a bit more
> spectacular - hope it'll work out alright (-:

I think my biggest issue with ToSK is the first major door-trap the party
encounters is insanely lethal. Unless you telegraph that they're actions are
activating the trap, it's way to easy to TPK a group of newbies. One failed
save and they're dead.

> PCs hit by the hammer automatically die (or take serious damage, like 2d6+4)

I haven't DM'd this with any newbies yet, but I'd probably make activation of
this first trap more noticeable (eg as you lift the heavy bar you pay
attention and notice that the pegs the bar rests on are rising... you hear
machinery/clunking noises from overhead, etc etc...)

--
gbbgu

Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D

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From: gmke...@gmail.com (Kyonshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: January 27th: 50 years of D&D
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2024 09:31:48 +0100
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 by: Kyonshi - Mon, 29 Jan 2024 08:31 UTC

On 1/29/2024 6:04 AM, gbbgu wrote:
> On 26 Jan 2024, lkh wrote:
>
>> kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> One beginner dungeon I really like is Skerples' Tomb of the Serpent
>>> Kings, which does try to be a teaching dungeon and does some really nice
>>> things with very basic tropes.
>>>
>>> https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.com/2017/06/osr-tomb-of-serpent-kings-megapost.html
>>
>> I was thinking about that one, too. It's a good teaching dungeon
>> at any rate. For the 27th I wanted to pick something a bit more
>> spectacular - hope it'll work out alright (-:
>
> I think my biggest issue with ToSK is the first major door-trap the party
> encounters is insanely lethal. Unless you telegraph that they're actions are
> activating the trap, it's way to easy to TPK a group of newbies. One failed
> save and they're dead.
>
>> PCs hit by the hammer automatically die (or take serious damage, like 2d6+4)
>
> I haven't DM'd this with any newbies yet, but I'd probably make activation of
> this first trap more noticeable (eg as you lift the heavy bar you pay
> attention and notice that the pegs the bar rests on are rising... you hear
> machinery/clunking noises from overhead, etc etc...)
>

yeah, that one is a bit of an issue. Although it seems to be intentional
by the author. It is supposed to teach players that exploring a dungeon
is an insanely dangerous endeavor. It only fits into a certain kind of
play where people are primed for losing and replacing their PCs. I guess
it would work well as a sort of funnel like in DCC, where everybody just
starts out with multiple characters and the ones that survive until the
end are the actual player characters they keep on using.


interests / rec.games.frp.dnd / January 27th: 50 years of D&D

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