VMO2 in the UK (Virgin Media merged with O2) have put up thousands of
poles alongside their fibre network cabinets. These are boosters for 4G
and 5G GPS. They're still on trial (AFAIK) but if successful might be
used for other things; even electric-car charging. And, no doubt, they
have internet access in their sights.

Wireless technology (OTOH) (Don't you just love modern acronymic
English? It's spread far beyond mere jargon; so that the fuller versions
sound obsolete - ASAP (as soon as possible). PJs (pyjamas)) is still
dependent on modems and routers. And to get it beyond the limits of your
own home router, you need OPs' routers. Without which, of course, you
can use "mobile data", ie GPS networks.

Which is better? Wireless or GPS?
My wireless comes without capping; great speeds and uncapped.
My phone, OTOH, has a cap of (I forget how many) GBs per month.

Ed

On 4/30/24 01:59 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
> VMO2 in the UK (Virgin Media merged with O2) have put up thousands of poles alongside their fibre
> network cabinets. These are boosters for 4G and 5G GPS. They're still on trial (AFAIK) but if
> successful might be used for other things; even electric-car charging. And, no doubt, they have
> internet access in their sights.
>
> Wireless technology (OTOH) (Don't you just love modern acronymic English? It's spread far beyond
> mere jargon; so that the fuller versions sound obsolete - ASAP (as soon as possible). PJs (pyjamas))
> is still dependent on modems and routers. And to get it beyond the limits of your own home router,
> you need OPs' routers. Without which, of course, you can use "mobile data", ie GPS networks.
>
> Which is better? Wireless or GPS?
> My wireless comes without capping; great speeds and uncapped.
> My phone, OTOH, has a cap of (I forget how many) GBs per month.
>
> Ed
>
>
>
I'm not sure I follow you.
GPS is (IMHO) describes simple location positioning via several satellites in geosynchronous orbit
around the Earth. Nothing to do with Wi-Fi or cell phone transmissions.

I have GPS in my car but I have no internet access in my car. Sharing my cell phone cellular
service would be as close as I could come to what can be called Wi-Fi in the car.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi is a family of wireless network protocols which are commonly
used for local area networking, and are most widely used for computer networks to link devices and
to provide Internet access.

--
Linux Mint 21.3 Cinnamon 6.0.4 Kernel 5.15.0-105-generic
Al

Big Al wrote:
> On 4/30/24 01:59 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>
>> VMO2 in the UK (Virgin Media merged with O2) have put up thousands of
>> poles alongside their fibre network cabinets. These are boosters for
>> 4G and 5G GPS. They're still on trial (AFAIK) but if successful might
>> be used for other things; even electric-car charging. And, no doubt,
>> they have internet access in their sights.
>>
>> Wireless technology (OTOH) (Don't you just love modern acronymic
>> English? It's spread far beyond mere jargon; so that the fuller
>> versions sound obsolete - ASAP (as soon as possible). PJs (pyjamas))
>> is still dependent on modems and routers. And to get it beyond the
>> limits of your own home router, you need OPs' routers. Without which,
>> of course, you can use "mobile data", ie GPS networks.
>>
>> Which is better? Wireless or GPS?
>> My wireless comes without capping; great speeds and uncapped.
>> My phone, OTOH, has a cap of (I forget how many) GBs per month.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
> I'm not sure I follow you.
> GPS is (IMHO) describes simple location positioning via several
> satellites in geosynchronous orbit around the Earth. Nothing to do with
> Wi-Fi or cell phone transmissions.
>
> I have GPS in my car but I have no internet access in my car. Sharing
> my cell phone cellular service would be as close as I could come to what
> can be called Wi-Fi in the car.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi is a family of wireless network
> protocols which are commonly used for local area networking, and are
> most widely used for computer networks to link devices and to provide
> Internet access.

Ed Cryer is confusing GPS (Global Positioning System) with GPRS (General
Packet Radio Service), also called 2.5G.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Packet_Radio_Service

Ed Cryer is also equating 2.5G GPRS with 4G LTE and with 5G NR.

On 4/30/2024 1:59 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
> VMO2 in the UK (Virgin Media merged with O2) have put up thousands of poles alongside their fibre network cabinets. These are boosters for 4G and 5G GPS. They're still on trial (AFAIK) but if successful might be used for other things; even electric-car charging. And, no doubt, they have internet access in their sights.
>
> Wireless technology (OTOH) (Don't you just love modern acronymic English? It's spread far beyond mere jargon; so that the fuller versions sound obsolete - ASAP (as soon as possible). PJs (pyjamas)) is still dependent on modems and routers. And to get it beyond the limits of your own home router, you need OPs' routers. Without which, of course, you can use "mobile data", ie GPS networks.
>
> Which is better? Wireless or GPS?
> My wireless comes without capping; great speeds and uncapped.
> My phone, OTOH, has a cap of (I forget how many) GBs per month.
>
> Ed

They're smart poles and they wear pajamas.

Apparently it's a battle of wits, between an ISP and the government.
The government does not want more poles installed (without planning permission).
While the ISP is just going to make the street sprout poles.

https://regmedia.co.uk/2024/03/19/virgin_handout_cell.jpg?x=648&y=486&infer_y=1

( https://www.theregister.com/2024/03/19/virgin_media_says_smart_poles/ )

There is a scheme to transmit power, from somewhere to somewhere. The cabinet
in the street (like ours), has a connection to mains. In the same way as the
light pole in the picture has a connection to mains in order to light the
street at night. The notion of "charging cars" is a bit far-fetched. Maybe
the digital electricity scheme can send around 1kW, which for car charging
would take forever. That's a lower rate than any current charging method.

Normally cabinets like that, have a mains power meter, and the ISP pays for
the power for the cabinet. And in this case, for whatever additional
power will be sent over something.

https://www.edn.com/what-is-digital-electricity/

*******

Wireless telephone standards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2G

2G, understood as GSM and CdmaOne, has been superseded by

3G (UMTS / CDMA2000) "code division multiple access"
4G (LTE / WiMAX)
5G (5G NR) "New Radio"

"Universal Mobile Telecommunications System (UMTS) is a third generation
mobile cellular system for networks based on the GSM standard"

"GSM = Global System for Mobile Communications"

"LTE = Long-Term Evolution ... [is] based on the GSM/EDGE and UMTS/HSPA standards"

And the 5G is pretty conventional, for long distance/large tower/large cell purposes.
It's when tiny transmitters (like that junk on the pole) transmit to the nearest
100-200 feet, that higher microwave frequencies are used. If the 5G network had
been deployed as intended (with a zillion tiny transmitters), it would have made
a significant dent in the power consumption of a country. Which is why true 5G
service should only exist in city cores. Lower rate service, that's what you would
see driving down a country lane.

Telecom companies always want you to pay 200 per month, and they have
to be stingy with the deliverables, to push up the price.

Paul

On Tue, 30 Apr 2024 18:59:24 +0100, Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:

>VMO2 in the UK (Virgin Media merged with O2) have put up thousands of
>poles alongside their fibre network cabinets. These are boosters for 4G
>and 5G GPS.

When I see GPS, I think of Global Positioning System, the series of global
satellites we use for navigation and related activities, but that's obviously
not what it means in your context. In your context, it appears to be related to
mobile networks and/or mobile data, so I'm curious as to what the acronym means.

<snip>

On Tue, 30 Apr 2024 22:16:24 +0100, Ed Gaskett <ed.gaskett@workshop.jigsawscene>
wrote:

>Big Al wrote:
>> On 4/30/24 01:59 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
>>>
>>> VMO2 in the UK (Virgin Media merged with O2) have put up thousands of
>>> poles alongside their fibre network cabinets. These are boosters for
>>> 4G and 5G GPS. They're still on trial (AFAIK) but if successful might
>>> be used for other things; even electric-car charging. And, no doubt,
>>> they have internet access in their sights.
>>>
>>> Wireless technology (OTOH) (Don't you just love modern acronymic
>>> English? It's spread far beyond mere jargon; so that the fuller
>>> versions sound obsolete - ASAP (as soon as possible). PJs (pyjamas))
>>> is still dependent on modems and routers. And to get it beyond the
>>> limits of your own home router, you need OPs' routers. Without which,
>>> of course, you can use "mobile data", ie GPS networks.
>>>
>>> Which is better? Wireless or GPS?
>>> My wireless comes without capping; great speeds and uncapped.
>>> My phone, OTOH, has a cap of (I forget how many) GBs per month.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>>
>> I'm not sure I follow you.
>> GPS is (IMHO) describes simple location positioning via several
>> satellites in geosynchronous orbit around the Earth. Nothing to do with
>> Wi-Fi or cell phone transmissions.
>>
>> I have GPS in my car but I have no internet access in my car. Sharing
>> my cell phone cellular service would be as close as I could come to what
>> can be called Wi-Fi in the car.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi is a family of wireless network
>> protocols which are commonly used for local area networking, and are
>> most widely used for computer networks to link devices and to provide
>> Internet access.
>
>
>Ed Cryer is confusing GPS (Global Positioning System) with GPRS (General
>Packet Radio Service), also called 2.5G.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Packet_Radio_Service
>
>Ed Cryer is also equating 2.5G GPRS with 4G LTE and with 5G NR.

Thanks, that answers the question I asked in an earlier post in this thread.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Tue, 30 Apr 2024 18:59:24 +0100, Ed Cryer
<ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:

>VMO2 in the UK (Virgin Media merged with O2) have put up thousands of
>poles alongside their fibre network cabinets. These are boosters for 4G
>and 5G GPS. They're still on trial (AFAIK) but if successful might be
>used for other things; even electric-car charging. And, no doubt, they
>have internet access in their sights.
>
>Wireless technology (OTOH) (Don't you just love modern acronymic
>English? It's spread far beyond mere jargon; so that the fuller versions
>sound obsolete - ASAP (as soon as possible). PJs (pyjamas)) is still
>dependent on modems and routers. And to get it beyond the limits of your
>own home router, you need OPs' routers. Without which, of course, you
>can use "mobile data", ie GPS networks.
>
>Which is better? Wireless or GPS?

That is, GPRS, I learned just now.

>My wireless comes without capping; great speeds and uncapped.
>My phone, OTOH, has a cap of (I forget how many) GBs per month.
>
>Ed

Wifi has another advantage in that one can have local wireless networks,
like between your router, your pc, your laptop, your printer(s), maybe
your phone, your smart TV, your web radio, Alexa or equivalent, which
the owner can use but can be password protected from meighbors. GPRS
only communicates with phones and iiuc tablets, and once in a while
computers if people install receivers which iiuc they rarely do, but
even if they do, they don't have the local network capability that wifi
has.

OTOH, mobile data is pretty expensive, or at least it's often sold in
smaller amounts like 1 or 5GB and I kept running out of it on my
vacations to Florida and Guateemala.

On 01/05/2024 04:16, micky wrote:
>
> OTOH, mobile data is pretty expensive, or at least it's often sold in
> smaller amounts like 1 or 5GB and I kept running out of it on my
> vacations to Florida and Guateemala.

You can stop downloading porn videos if you are on mobile data. It is
plain silly to do so. Some people have lost jobs for doing that:
<https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/16/health-secretary-scotland-fights-calls-resign-11000-ipad-to-holyrood-roaming-bill>.
The article says football but it was mainly porn. Out of politeness
they are not saying everything what was going on.

Paul wrote:
> On 4/30/2024 1:59 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
>> VMO2 in the UK (Virgin Media merged with O2) have put up thousands of poles alongside their fibre network cabinets. These are boosters for 4G and 5G GPS. They're still on trial (AFAIK) but if successful might be used for other things; even electric-car charging. And, no doubt, they have internet access in their sights.
>>
>> Wireless technology (OTOH) (Don't you just love modern acronymic English? It's spread far beyond mere jargon; so that the fuller versions sound obsolete - ASAP (as soon as possible). PJs (pyjamas)) is still dependent on modems and routers. And to get it beyond the limits of your own home router, you need OPs' routers. Without which, of course, you can use "mobile data", ie GPS networks.
>>
>> Which is better? Wireless or GPS?
>> My wireless comes without capping; great speeds and uncapped.
>> My phone, OTOH, has a cap of (I forget how many) GBs per month.
>>
>> Ed
>
> They're smart poles and they wear pajamas.
>
> Apparently it's a battle of wits, between an ISP and the government.
> The government does not want more poles installed (without planning permission).
> While the ISP is just going to make the street sprout poles.
>
> https://regmedia.co.uk/2024/03/19/virgin_handout_cell.jpg?x=648&y=486&infer_y=1
>
> ( https://www.theregister.com/2024/03/19/virgin_media_says_smart_poles/ )
>
> There is a scheme to transmit power, from somewhere to somewhere. The cabinet
> in the street (like ours), has a connection to mains. In the same way as the
> light pole in the picture has a connection to mains in order to light the
> street at night. The notion of "charging cars" is a bit far-fetched. Maybe
> the digital electricity scheme can send around 1kW, which for car charging
> would take forever. That's a lower rate than any current charging method.
>
> Normally cabinets like that, have a mains power meter, and the ISP pays for
> the power for the cabinet. And in this case, for whatever additional
> power will be sent over something.
>
> https://www.edn.com/what-is-digital-electricity/
>
> *******
>
> Wireless telephone standards.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2G
>
> 2G, understood as GSM and CdmaOne, has been superseded by
>
> 3G (UMTS / CDMA2000) "code division multiple access"
> 4G (LTE / WiMAX)
> 5G (5G NR) "New Radio"
>
> "Universal Mobile Telecommunications System (UMTS) is a third generation
> mobile cellular system for networks based on the GSM standard"
>
> "GSM = Global System for Mobile Communications"
>
> "LTE = Long-Term Evolution ... [is] based on the GSM/EDGE and UMTS/HSPA standards"
>
> And the 5G is pretty conventional, for long distance/large tower/large cell purposes.
> It's when tiny transmitters (like that junk on the pole) transmit to the nearest
> 100-200 feet, that higher microwave frequencies are used. If the 5G network had
> been deployed as intended (with a zillion tiny transmitters), it would have made
> a significant dent in the power consumption of a country. Which is why true 5G
> service should only exist in city cores. Lower rate service, that's what you would
> see driving down a country lane.
>
> Telecom companies always want you to pay 200 per month, and they have
> to be stingy with the deliverables, to push up the price.
>
> Paul

Technology comes with built-in obsolescence. And it will continue that
way since our consumer economies are so dependent on new tech.
Floppy discs, digicassettes, cartridges, CDs, DVDs. All obsolete.
And language usage ebbs and flows around all that.
Wireless and GPS.
Marconi's research into wireless telegraphy through Hertzian waves;
next, wireless = box of tricks that brings transmitted sound. Today it
means no more than just the short-range, in-home transmission from a router.
And GPS seems to cover all the cell network.

This is how it works amongst the populace. I find it rather annoying,
but for someone like you with your deep understanding of how it all
works it must be very irritating.
My basic linguistic taste-buds say wireless = data passed across space
without a cable. GPS = global positioning system, effected by satellites
in geostationary orbit around the planet. Which is what it means to
scientists and educated people.

Ed

Ed Cryer wrote:

> GPS = global positioning system, effected by satellites in geostationary
> orbit around the planet. Which is what it means to scientists and
> educated people.

Scientists and educated people will know that the GPS satellites are
*not* in geostationary orbit.

https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/somd/space-communications-navigation-program/gps/

Ed Gaskett wrote:
> Ed Cryer wrote:
>
>> GPS = global positioning system, effected by satellites in
>> geostationary orbit around the planet. Which is what it means to
>> scientists and educated people.
>
>
> Scientists and educated people will know that the GPS satellites are
> *not* in geostationary orbit.
>
> https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/somd/space-communications-navigation-program/gps/
>
>

Well then, I'll take a place near the back of the class (:-

My curiosity has been awakened, however. Why do some satellites stay
geostationary, while others don't?
I suppose the geostationary ones include the TV and telecommunications
ones, serving a fixed sector of Earth.
But why do the GPS ones have to orbit the planet?

Ed

Ed Cryer wrote:

[snip]
>
> My curiosity has been awakened, however. Why do some satellites stay
> geostationary, while others don't?
> I suppose the geostationary ones include the TV and telecommunications
> ones, serving a fixed sector of Earth.
> But why do the GPS ones have to orbit the planet?

Geostationary Orbit = a circular orbit 35,785 km (22,236 miles) above
Earth's Equator in which a satellite's orbital period is equal to
Earth's rotation period of 23 hours and 56 minutes.

An orbital plane goes through the earth's centre.

A geosynchronous orbit can have any inclination, a geostationary orbit
sees satellites permanently 'parked' over the plane of Earth's equator.

GPS orbit = six orbital planes inclined 55° from the equator in a Medium
Earth Orbit (MEO) at about 20,200 kilometers (12,550 miles)

GPS is typically a lower orbit so less radio power required. The 6
planes allow for good coverage of the whole earth's surface, and there
are several (perhaps many) satellites in each plane. Each satellite
knows EXACTLY where it is so allowing for accurate calculation of a
receiver's position.

--
Graham J

Ed Cryer wrote:
> Ed Gaskett wrote:
>> Ed Cryer wrote:
>>
>>> GPS = global positioning system, effected by satellites in
>>> geostationary orbit around the planet. Which is what it means to
>>> scientists and educated people.
>>
>>
>> Scientists and educated people will know that the GPS satellites are
>> *not* in geostationary orbit.
>>
>> https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/somd/space-communications-navigation-program/gps/
>>
>>
>>
>
> Well then, I'll take a place near the back of the class   (:-
>
> My curiosity has been awakened, however. Why do some satellites stay
> geostationary, while others don't?
> I suppose the geostationary ones include the TV and telecommunications
> ones, serving a fixed sector of Earth.
> But why do the GPS ones have to orbit the planet?
>
> Ed

Three sats are needed to calculate a horizontal location.
Four are used to calculate elevation.
Think about it in terms of calculating the centers of spheres.

On 5/2/2024 4:56 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
> Ed Gaskett wrote:
>> Ed Cryer wrote:
>>
>>> GPS = global positioning system, effected by satellites in geostationary orbit around the planet. Which is what it means to scientists and educated people.
>>
>>
>> Scientists and educated people will know that the GPS satellites are *not* in geostationary orbit.
>>
>> https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/somd/space-communications-navigation-program/gps/
>>
>>
>
> Well then, I'll take a place near the back of the class   (:-
>
> My curiosity has been awakened, however. Why do some satellites stay geostationary, while others don't?
> I suppose the geostationary ones include the TV and telecommunications ones, serving a fixed sector of Earth.
> But why do the GPS ones have to orbit the planet?
>
> Ed

At least one GPS program (I think it was on Linux),
plots a map of the sky and puts the detected GPS birds
seen by your receiver, on the map. It then lists the
signal strength next to them (green for "enough signal"
for example).

Paul