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interests / rec.gardens.edible / Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!

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* Help! My bilberries are dying!T
`* Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!songbird
 `* Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!T
  `* Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!songbird
   `* Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!T
    `* Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!songbird
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1
Help! My bilberries are dying!

<ubmds2$3v4nq$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Help! My bilberries are dying!
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 17:26:42 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: T - Fri, 18 Aug 2023 00:26 UTC

Hi All,

Four years to get these things to finally flower
and show any sign of fruit. Now they are dying
on me.

They get watered one every other day.

No sign of aphids or critters on the
underside of the leaves

https://imgur.com/N6q9AuC.png
https://imgur.com/nhDQtao.png
https://imgur.com/VRvf9qA.png

I hate to see four years go to waste!

-T

Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!

<8g84rj-l05.ln1@anthive.com>

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 09:32:24 -0400
Organization: the little wild kingdom
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 by: songbird - Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:32 UTC

T wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Four years to get these things to finally flower
> and show any sign of fruit. Now they are dying
> on me.
>
> They get watered one every other day.
>
> No sign of aphids or critters on the
> underside of the leaves
>
> https://imgur.com/N6q9AuC.png
> https://imgur.com/nhDQtao.png
> https://imgur.com/VRvf9qA.png
>
> I hate to see four years go to waste!

what's the pH of your water? have you amended
the soil where they're planted recently? do they
need partial shade during hot weather?

songbird

Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!

<ubofjj$c88t$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 12:08:35 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: T - Fri, 18 Aug 2023 19:08 UTC

On 8/18/23 06:32, songbird wrote:
> T wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Four years to get these things to finally flower
>> and show any sign of fruit. Now they are dying
>> on me.
>>
>> They get watered one every other day.
>>
>> No sign of aphids or critters on the
>> underside of the leaves
>>
>> https://imgur.com/N6q9AuC.png
>> https://imgur.com/nhDQtao.png
>> https://imgur.com/VRvf9qA.png
>>
>> I hate to see four years go to waste!
>
> what's the pH of your water?

PH neutral. Don't remember the number.

Looking at
https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/edible/fruits/blueberries/bilberry-plant-information.htm
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2008/apr/06/gardens50

"Like blueberries, bilberries thrive in acidic
soil. Pick a location with full sun in cooler
areas but opt for partial shade in warmer
climes. Bilberries are very tolerant of wind,
so shelter is not needed."

My soil is somewhat alkali. But they are planted
in ground pots filled with peat moss, which is
acidic. They never really grew well till
this year, when they had a massive growth spurt
and tons of flowers, which I never got before.

> have you amended
> the soil where they're planted recently?

A month ago everyone got fine powdered
organic bone meal. Everyone seemed to
love. I used it for transplant shock too at
the beginning of the season. Virtually
zero shock. Only my eggplants showed any
shock, but it lasted only one day.

> do they
> need partial shade during hot weather?

They've never seemed to care over the years.
But they never had so much foliage before.
And the worst heat was in July and the first
part of August: 90 to 100F and 60 to 70F
at night, which they seemed to thrive under.
Now it is 80 to 90F and 40 to 60F at night.

Don't suppose this is a deciduous thing and
they think winter is upon them? Seems
way early. And as I remember their leaves
are beautiful red when the they start to fall.

>
> songbird

I used to water every day during July and the first
week in August when it was hottest. Now, every
other day.

Our humidity is usually around 7 to 15%, but the
last few weeks we have had higher humidity (swamp
cooler hardly works) with thunderclouds all
over but no rain. Lots of virga though.

With the two weeks of thunderclouds have come a lot
of wind. They have never seemed to care about
that in the past.

Several of my plants used to have aphids.
I sprayed them with soapy water mixed with
cayenne powder. And, I poisoned the ants
with my cheap poison (borax laundry powder,
cheapest honey I could find, and water).
EVERYONE loved that!! But that was also
months or so ago.

I noticed the browning of the bilberry leaves
about two weeks ago. I thought they needed
more water, which they got in spades, but that
did not help.

-T

Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!

<68i5rj-7gd.ln1@anthive.com>

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:24:54 -0400
Organization: the little wild kingdom
Lines: 110
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<ubofjj$c88t$1@dont-email.me>
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 by: songbird - Sat, 19 Aug 2023 01:24 UTC

T wrote:
....
> My soil is somewhat alkali. But they are planted
> in ground pots filled with peat moss, which is
> acidic. They never really grew well till
> this year, when they had a massive growth spurt
> and tons of flowers, which I never got before.

a lot of growth followed by a hot spell may
overtax the root system, especially if it is
confined as i think it may be. you need to
keep the top of the plant sized to about what
the root system is below. i do not know these
plants in specific well enough to know for sure
how much this may apply but as a general rule
for bushy plants it is probably ok.

>> have you amended
>> the soil where they're planted recently?
>
> A month ago everyone got fine powdered
> organic bone meal. Everyone seemed to
> love. I used it for transplant shock too at
> the beginning of the season. Virtually
> zero shock. Only my eggplants showed any
> shock, but it lasted only one day.

nowadays bone meal is very over processed
and doesn't have nearly the same stuff it
used to have. that said my guess is that this
will not help your pH much.

neutral water with alkali soils and only
somewhat amended area means to me that the
surrounding soil is going to eventually
dominate and shift the pH to alkali again if
you do not consistently keep amending with
somewhat acidic things.

>> do they
>> need partial shade during hot weather?
>
> They've never seemed to care over the years.
> But they never had so much foliage before.
> And the worst heat was in July and the first
> part of August: 90 to 100F and 60 to 70F
> at night, which they seemed to thrive under.
> Now it is 80 to 90F and 40 to 60F at night.
>
> Don't suppose this is a deciduous thing and
> they think winter is upon them? Seems
> way early. And as I remember their leaves
> are beautiful red when the they start to fall.

no, i think may be more related to the plant
getting bigger than what the root system could
actually support. i've no idea if they will
survive or not or if they will respond well to
being pruned or what. since i don't know the
growth habit of them...

i would keep them moist enough so that they
do not dry out completely, but i would also not
want to drown them.

> I used to water every day during July and the first
> week in August when it was hottest. Now, every
> other day.
>
> Our humidity is usually around 7 to 15%, but the
> last few weeks we have had higher humidity (swamp
> cooler hardly works) with thunderclouds all
> over but no rain. Lots of virga though.
>
> With the two weeks of thunderclouds have come a lot
> of wind. They have never seemed to care about
> that in the past.
>
> Several of my plants used to have aphids.
> I sprayed them with soapy water mixed with
> cayenne powder. And, I poisoned the ants
> with my cheap poison (borax laundry powder,
> cheapest honey I could find, and water).
> EVERYONE loved that!! But that was also
> months or so ago.
>
> I noticed the browning of the bilberry leaves
> about two weeks ago. I thought they needed
> more water, which they got in spades, but that
> did not help.

are they dead now completely or just not looking
as good as before?

if there's anything left alive i would amend
with some organic matter (remove the top layer of
soil around the plant and replace it with new stuff)
and see if that helps. if there is any really dead
and crispy stuff you could trim that off. but i
would see a reference for the plant to see if there
is a better time to prune or what not to do with
respect to pruning because sometimes plants need
first year wood to use for the next season's flowers
or such.

songbird

Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!

<ubpcoj$k002$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 20:26:11 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 116
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References: <ubmds2$3v4nq$1@dont-email.me> <8g84rj-l05.ln1@anthive.com>
<ubofjj$c88t$1@dont-email.me> <68i5rj-7gd.ln1@anthive.com>
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 by: T - Sat, 19 Aug 2023 03:26 UTC

On 8/18/23 18:24, songbird wrote:
> T wrote:
> ...
>> My soil is somewhat alkali. But they are planted
>> in ground pots filled with peat moss, which is
>> acidic. They never really grew well till
>> this year, when they had a massive growth spurt
>> and tons of flowers, which I never got before.
>
> a lot of growth followed by a hot spell may
> overtax the root system, especially if it is
> confined as i think it may be. you need to
> keep the top of the plant sized to about what
> the root system is below. i do not know these
> plants in specific well enough to know for sure
> how much this may apply but as a general rule
> for bushy plants it is probably ok.
>
>
>>> have you amended
>>> the soil where they're planted recently?
>>
>> A month ago everyone got fine powdered
>> organic bone meal. Everyone seemed to
>> love. I used it for transplant shock too at
>> the beginning of the season. Virtually
>> zero shock. Only my eggplants showed any
>> shock, but it lasted only one day.
>
> nowadays bone meal is very over processed
> and doesn't have nearly the same stuff it
> used to have. that said my guess is that this
> will not help your pH much.
>
> neutral water with alkali soils and only
> somewhat amended area means to me that the
> surrounding soil is going to eventually
> dominate and shift the pH to alkali again if
> you do not consistently keep amending with
> somewhat acidic things.
>
>
>>> do they
>>> need partial shade during hot weather?
>>
>> They've never seemed to care over the years.
>> But they never had so much foliage before.
>> And the worst heat was in July and the first
>> part of August: 90 to 100F and 60 to 70F
>> at night, which they seemed to thrive under.
>> Now it is 80 to 90F and 40 to 60F at night.
>>
>> Don't suppose this is a deciduous thing and
>> they think winter is upon them? Seems
>> way early. And as I remember their leaves
>> are beautiful red when the they start to fall.
>
> no, i think may be more related to the plant
> getting bigger than what the root system could
> actually support. i've no idea if they will
> survive or not or if they will respond well to
> being pruned or what. since i don't know the
> growth habit of them...
>
> i would keep them moist enough so that they
> do not dry out completely, but i would also not
> want to drown them.
>
>
>> I used to water every day during July and the first
>> week in August when it was hottest. Now, every
>> other day.
>>
>> Our humidity is usually around 7 to 15%, but the
>> last few weeks we have had higher humidity (swamp
>> cooler hardly works) with thunderclouds all
>> over but no rain. Lots of virga though.
>>
>> With the two weeks of thunderclouds have come a lot
>> of wind. They have never seemed to care about
>> that in the past.
>>
>> Several of my plants used to have aphids.
>> I sprayed them with soapy water mixed with
>> cayenne powder. And, I poisoned the ants
>> with my cheap poison (borax laundry powder,
>> cheapest honey I could find, and water).
>> EVERYONE loved that!! But that was also
>> months or so ago.
>>
>> I noticed the browning of the bilberry leaves
>> about two weeks ago. I thought they needed
>> more water, which they got in spades, but that
>> did not help.
>
> are they dead now completely or just not looking
> as good as before?
>
> if there's anything left alive i would amend
> with some organic matter (remove the top layer of
> soil around the plant and replace it with new stuff)
> and see if that helps. if there is any really dead
> and crispy stuff you could trim that off. but i
> would see a reference for the plant to see if there
> is a better time to prune or what not to do with
> respect to pruning because sometimes plants need
> first year wood to use for the next season's flowers
> or such.
>
>
> songbird

There is nothing to stop them from going outside
the pot, except that the ground is really hard.

Any idea what the dead leaves tell us?

Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!

<lov6rj-6u8.ln1@anthive.com>

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2023 10:21:41 -0400
Organization: the little wild kingdom
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<ubpcoj$k002$1@dont-email.me>
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 by: songbird - Sat, 19 Aug 2023 14:21 UTC

T wrote:
....
> There is nothing to stop them from going outside
> the pot, except that the ground is really hard.

bushes which may normally grow in a much easier
place (like a forest clearing) are not too likely
to do well with that.

if they are going to get bigger they'll need a
bigger hole.

> Any idea what the dead leaves tell us?

already gave my thoughts on that.

songbird

Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!

<ubrahn$10n33$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2023 14:00:39 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: T - Sat, 19 Aug 2023 21:00 UTC

On 8/19/23 07:21, songbird wrote:
> bushes which may normally grow in a much easier
> place (like a forest clearing) are not too likely
> to do well with that.

My blackberries and goji's have suckers over in
the hard stuff.

>
> if they are going to get bigger they'll need a
> bigger hole.

I am afraid transplanting them would kill them.

Thank you for all the help!

Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!

<vd28rj-pbe.ln1@anthive.com>

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2023 20:13:19 -0400
Organization: the little wild kingdom
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 by: songbird - Sun, 20 Aug 2023 00:13 UTC

T wrote:
> On 8/19/23 07:21, songbird wrote:
>> bushes which may normally grow in a much easier
>> place (like a forest clearing) are not too likely
>> to do well with that.
>
> My blackberries and goji's have suckers over in
> the hard stuff.

that's good to hear. :)

>> if they are going to get bigger they'll need a
>> bigger hole.
>
> I am afraid transplanting them would kill them.

i'm not sure if they're even alive. without
pictures and being there it's hard sometimes to
tell what's going on.

> Thank you for all the help!

you're welcome, but at a distance it's just not
easy at all to know for sure what's going on.
even with things in my own yard sometimes i just
have to admit i don't know and move on. plants
are fun and interesting but at times stuff happens.
there's so many different factors involved.

i hope they'll survive and come back next year
yet i don't know much about those plants.

songbird

Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!

<c758rj-pbe.ln1@anthive.com>

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2023 21:01:00 -0400
Organization: the little wild kingdom
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 by: songbird - Sun, 20 Aug 2023 01:01 UTC

T wrote:
....
> Thank you for all the help!

i still think you need more acidification as
time goes on you have tons of material around these
pots which are going to keep wanting to make the
place where these grow alkaline.

you may want to look into what can help buffer
acidity to help it last longer.

songbird

Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2023 18:19:09 -0700
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 by: T - Sun, 20 Aug 2023 01:19 UTC

On 8/19/23 14:00, T wrote:
> On 8/19/23 07:21, songbird wrote:
>>    bushes which may normally grow in a much easier
>> place (like a forest clearing) are not too likely
>> to do well with that.
>
> My blackberries and goji's have suckers over in
> the hard stuff.
>
>>
>>    if they are going to get bigger they'll need a
>> bigger hole.
>
> I am afraid transplanting them would kill them.
>
> Thank you for all the help!
>
We had a massive thunderstorm yesterday. Tons
of drama.
My two bilberries now have new leaves at the
end of every branch. And they are so healthy,
they are pretty!
Could it be the nitrogen water?
Or, maybe a good wash off for any tiny aphids
or something else I could not see?

Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2023 18:20:26 -0700
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 by: T - Sun, 20 Aug 2023 01:20 UTC

On 8/19/23 18:01, songbird wrote:
> T wrote:
> ...
>> Thank you for all the help!
>
> i still think you need more acidification as
> time goes on you have tons of material around these
> pots which are going to keep wanting to make the
> place where these grow alkaline.
>
> you may want to look into what can help buffer
> acidity to help it last longer.
>
>
> songbird

Is "nitrogen water from a thunderstorm "acidic"?

Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2023 22:11:00 -0400
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 by: songbird - Sun, 20 Aug 2023 02:11 UTC

T wrote:
....
> We had a massive thunderstorm yesterday. Tons
> of drama.
>
> My two bilberries now have new leaves at the
> end of every branch. And they are so healthy,
> they are pretty!

that's good to hear.

> Could it be the nitrogen water?

rain is usually better than well water,
especially out west.

> Or, maybe a good wash off for any tiny aphids
> or something else I could not see?

a good rain will help with aphids but better
yet is some lady bugs or other predatory insects
that will eat them. also keep an eye out for
ants herding the aphids (yes, they will herd them
like farmers herd animals and harvest their
milk or other products).

we potentially have many different kinds of
aphids in our area but there are so many lady
bugs that we rarely see them. i've seen aphids
on plants five times in close to 20 years of
Agardening here. there's a graying green type
that like brassicas that i've seen twice of
those five times. i just pulled the plant and
buried it. they were weeds or random plants
that were not true to type so i didn't mind
doing that to them.

insecticidal soap used according to the label
will help if you do have bad infestation or it
may also help to trim off some of the worst of
an infestation and destroy those trimmings.

songbird

Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!

<gu88rj-4dh.ln1@anthive.com>

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From: songb...@anthive.com (songbird)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2023 22:04:32 -0400
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 by: songbird - Sun, 20 Aug 2023 02:04 UTC

T wrote:
....
> Is "nitrogen water from a thunderstorm "acidic"?

it is probably close to it, but it really depends
upon what your area is like and what other stuff
might be in the air.

songbird

Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
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Subject: Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!
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 by: T - Sun, 20 Aug 2023 02:35 UTC

On 8/19/23 19:11, songbird wrote:
> T wrote:

>> Or, maybe a good wash off for any tiny aphids
>> or something else I could not see?
>
> a good rain will help with aphids but better
> yet is some lady bugs or other predatory insects
> that will eat them.

I did not mention this, but when I first saw something
was wrong, I noticed the leaves had little tiny brown
spots like they'd been stuck with a pin. I turned
over the leaves but could not find anything. My
Goji's were attacked. When I turned over their leaves,
I found a bunch of tiny clear circles on then.
That is when I sprung into action with the 7th gen
dish soap and cayenne. About 1/4 soap to a gallon
of water.

> also keep an eye out for
> ants herding the aphids (yes, they will herd them
> like farmers herd animals and harvest their
> milk or other products).

Oh no fooling. And they aggressively attach you if
dare touch their plant. My goji's, chock berries,
and bilberries all had ants all over them.

No more though. Chuckle. Guess they had a sweet
tooth for honey mixed with borax!

Fortunately, the aphids had not caught the attention
of the local yellow jackets. Then you have to spray
at night, or be able to run like hell.

>
> we potentially have many different kinds of
> aphids in our area but there are so many lady
> bugs that we rarely see them. i've seen aphids
> on plants five times in close to 20 years of
> Agardening here. there's a graying green type
> that like brassicas that i've seen twice of
> those five times. i just pulled the plant and
> buried it. they were weeds or random plants
> that were not true to type so i didn't mind
> doing that to them.

The pin pricks and all the ants make me suspicious
that the aphids were just too small to see.

>
> insecticidal soap used according to the label
> will help if you do have bad infestation or it
> may also help to trim off some of the worst of
> an infestation and destroy those trimmings.
>
>
> songbird

Since about two days ago, now when I water, I
blast the leaves.

Thank you for all the help. I clearly do not
know what I am doing.

We have thunderstorm forecast for the next
week due to hurricane Hillary.

:-)

-T

Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!

<ubs1qs$17gge$1@dont-email.me>

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From: T...@invalid.invalid (T)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Re: Help! My bilberries are dying!
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2023 20:38:02 -0700
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 by: T - Sun, 20 Aug 2023 03:38 UTC

On 8/19/23 19:11, songbird wrote:
> lady bugs

They are out of season at the nursery. Dang!

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