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interests / soc.culture.polish / Re: I just got back from Ukraine...

SubjectAuthor
* I just got back from Ukraine...Basia
`* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Cameo
 +* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Basia
 |+* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Basia
 ||+* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Basia
 |||+* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Russet Bulba
 ||||`- Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Russet Bulba
 |||`- Re: I just got back from Ukraine...andal
 ||`* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Cameo
 || `* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Basia
 ||  +- Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Cameo
 ||  `* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Russet Bulba
 ||   +- Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Russet Bulba
 ||   `* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Basia
 ||    `- Re: I just got back from Ukraine...andal
 |`- Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Cameo
 +* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Russet Bulba
 |+* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...End Of Line
 ||`* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Russet Bulba
 || +- Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Russet Bulba
 || `* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...End Of Line
 ||  `- Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Russet Bulba
 |`- Re: I just got back from Ukraine...andal
 `* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Piotr
  +* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Basia
  |`* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Basia
  | +* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Russet Bulba
  | |`* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Basia
  | | `* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Russet Bulba
  | |  `* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Basia
  | |   `* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Russet Bulba
  | |    `- Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Basia
  | `- Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Basia
  `* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Cameo
   `* Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Piotr
    `- Re: I just got back from Ukraine...Cameo

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Re: I just got back from Ukraine...

<68b875a2-76d9-4159-8e37-160c08d1e602n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: I just got back from Ukraine...
From: abjj...@sbcglobal.net (Basia)
Injection-Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2024 02:20:38 +0000
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 by: Basia - Tue, 23 Jan 2024 02:20 UTC

On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 4:34:55 PM UTC-8, Basia wrote:
> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 3:09:26 PM UTC-8, Piotr wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 7:55:39 AM UTC-3:30, Cameo wrote:
> > > On 1/21/2024 12:26 AM, Basia wrote:
> > > > https://twitter.com/MariaMateiciuc/status/1743658029893984735
> > >
> > > Yet, I never understood the big love affair between Poland and Ukraine.
> > > Just think of the Wolhynia massacres.
> Piotr:
> "...Wolyn was a terrible massacre, but MUCH SMALLER than the massacres
> and destruction from the hands of Russians over the centuries:
> - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that...wiped out Poland of the map for more than a century
> - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that occupied most Polish lands...
> - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that killed or sent to Siberia...
> - It was (Soviet) Russia, not Ukraine, that tried to conquer...Poland,
> - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that starved...also some ethnic Poles...
> - It was Russia, not Ukraine, which...was exterminating Poles
> - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that joined Hitler in 1939 to stab the desperately fighting Poland
> - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that annexed half of the prewar Poland
> - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that to subjugate Poland
> - it was Russia, not Ukraine, who... gave the Nazi Germans time to raze Warsaw to the ground and to kill ~ 200,000 Poles.
> - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that then occupied Poland, ...which resulted in the death
> - it is Russia not Ukraine, who revives the cult of Stalin, "
>
> So according to Piotr's faulty logic Poles
> are supposed to LOVE Ukrainians because
> their massacres were smaller and because
> other nations, more organized then Ukrainians,
> were far more destructive towards Poland.

Ludek na wpol-mongolski nie posiadajacy
nawet wlasnego panstwa zerwal sie i niemalze
dzidami, widlami, nozami toporami i siekierami
wyrabal prawie 150 tysiecy czy nawet wiecej ludzi.
Pomyslec tylko jak wygladala by Rzez Wolynskia
gdyby Ukraincy posiadali wlasne silne i sprawne
panstwo.

I za to Polacy maja ich kochac ze byli w
spontanicznej rzezi mniej wydajni nizeli
systematyczni Niemcy czy Rosjanie.
Takiej niedorzecznosci jeszcze w zyciu
nie slyszalam! Piotr przechodzi
samego siebie.

Basia (Ona/Jej)

> This according to Piotr should be reason
> for LOVE!!?
>
> I think Piotr wants to explain something that
> does not and never existed and also as a side
> job wants to belittle Ukrainian murders of Poles.
>
> The so called "Love" between Poland and Ukraine
> is a recent invention subsidized and propagandized
> by Warsaw to cover its true policy of pitting Ukraine
> against Russia. Post-communists and some
> Poles in Washigton, most notably Brzezinski,
> for many years wanted to use Ukrainian to
> foment conflict and possibly a war with American
> participation. Wanted to use and pit the Banderite
> movement into military conflict with Russia through
> a policy of "brotherly" support for Ukrainian membership
> in NATO (which Russia opossed). These people did their
> bidding not out of love but in spite, ...out of revenge and
> hatred.
>
> Polish post-communists elites are in great number
> Ziomki's (re-patriants from Eastern Polish territories
> taken over by Soviet Union). Kaczynski is a Ziomek,
> Brzezinski was also. All portrayed themselves
> as great friends of Ukrainians and lovers of
> Ukraine. Tell these lies, this story of "love"
> to the million or so Ukrainians recently maimed
> or slaughtered because of a needless war.
>
> Basia (Ona/Jej)

Re: I just got back from Ukraine...

<da41eb7b-a7a0-4c22-a1ff-e4a71347d837n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: I just got back from Ukraine...
From: cyrylmet...@gmail.com (Russet Bulba)
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 by: Russet Bulba - Tue, 23 Jan 2024 02:41 UTC

On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 10:20:39 PM UTC-4, Basia wrote:
> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 4:34:55 PM UTC-8, Basia wrote:
> > On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 3:09:26 PM UTC-8, Piotr wrote:
> > > On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 7:55:39 AM UTC-3:30, Cameo wrote:
> > > > On 1/21/2024 12:26 AM, Basia wrote:
> > > > > https://twitter.com/MariaMateiciuc/status/1743658029893984735
> > > >
> > > > Yet, I never understood the big love affair between Poland and Ukraine.
> > > > Just think of the Wolhynia massacres.
> > Piotr:
> > "...Wolyn was a terrible massacre, but MUCH SMALLER than the massacres
> > and destruction from the hands of Russians over the centuries:
> > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that...wiped out Poland of the map for more than a century
> > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that occupied most Polish lands...
> > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that killed or sent to Siberia...
> > - It was (Soviet) Russia, not Ukraine, that tried to conquer...Poland,
> > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that starved...also some ethnic Poles...
> > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, which...was exterminating Poles
> > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that joined Hitler in 1939 to stab the desperately fighting Poland
> > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that annexed half of the prewar Poland
> > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that to subjugate Poland
> > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, who... gave the Nazi Germans time to raze Warsaw to the ground and to kill ~ 200,000 Poles.
> > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that then occupied Poland, ...which resulted in the death
> > - it is Russia not Ukraine, who revives the cult of Stalin, "
> >
> > So according to Piotr's faulty logic Poles
> > are supposed to LOVE Ukrainians because
> > their massacres were smaller and because
> > other nations, more organized then Ukrainians,
> > were far more destructive towards Poland.
> Ludek na wpol-mongolski nie posiadajacy
> nawet wlasnego panstwa zerwal sie i niemalze
> dzidami, widlami, nozami toporami i siekierami
> wyrabal prawie 150 tysiecy czy nawet wiecej ludzi.
> Pomyslec tylko jak wygladala by Rzez Wolynskia
> gdyby Ukraincy posiadali wlasne silne i sprawne
> panstwo.
>
> I za to Polacy maja ich kochac ze byli w
> spontanicznej rzezi mniej wydajni nizeli
> systematyczni Niemcy czy Rosjanie.
> Takiej niedorzecznosci jeszcze w zyciu
> nie slyszalam! Piotr przechodzi
> samego siebie.
>
> Basia (Ona/Jej)
> > This according to Piotr should be reason
> > for LOVE!!?
> >
> > I think Piotr wants to explain something that
> > does not and never existed and also as a side
> > job wants to belittle Ukrainian murders of Poles.
> >
> > The so called "Love" between Poland and Ukraine
> > is a recent invention subsidized and propagandized
> > by Warsaw to cover its true policy of pitting Ukraine
> > against Russia. Post-communists and some
> > Poles in Washigton, most notably Brzezinski,
> > for many years wanted to use Ukrainian to
> > foment conflict and possibly a war with American
> > participation. Wanted to use and pit the Banderite
> > movement into military conflict with Russia through
> > a policy of "brotherly" support for Ukrainian membership
> > in NATO (which Russia opossed). These people did their
> > bidding not out of love but in spite, ...out of revenge and
> > hatred.
> >
> > Polish post-communists elites are in great number
> > Ziomki's (re-patriants from Eastern Polish territories
> > taken over by Soviet Union). Kaczynski is a Ziomek,
> > Brzezinski was also. All portrayed themselves
> > as great friends of Ukrainians and lovers of
> > Ukraine. Tell these lies, this story of "love"
> > to the million or so Ukrainians recently maimed
> > or slaughtered because of a needless war.
> >
> > Basia (Ona/Jej)

Troche zrozumienia hiztorii, Basiu. Jakas tam historie w technikum uczyli? Ponizej mozna sie podciagnac nieco w zrozumieniu powiazan Polski z Ukraina:

https://youtu.be/_IBll--m7qI?si=-T7iKrT3JkvjgvMq

Re: I just got back from Ukraine...

<b644af69-e5fe-4ace-86c9-ca2919b679a5n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: I just got back from Ukraine...
From: abjj...@sbcglobal.net (Basia)
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 by: Basia - Tue, 23 Jan 2024 03:22 UTC

On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 6:41:37 PM UTC-8, Russet Bulba wrote:
> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 10:20:39 PM UTC-4, Basia wrote:
> > On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 4:34:55 PM UTC-8, Basia wrote:
> > > On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 3:09:26 PM UTC-8, Piotr wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 7:55:39 AM UTC-3:30, Cameo wrote:
> > > > > On 1/21/2024 12:26 AM, Basia wrote:
> > > > > > https://twitter.com/MariaMateiciuc/status/1743658029893984735
> > > > >
> > > > > Yet, I never understood the big love affair between Poland and Ukraine.
> > > > > Just think of the Wolhynia massacres.
> > >
> > > Piotr:
> > > "...Wolyn was a terrible massacre, but MUCH SMALLER than the massacres
> > > and destruction from the hands of Russians over the centuries:
> > > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that...wiped out Poland of the map for more than a century
> > > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that occupied most Polish lands...
> > > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that killed or sent to Siberia...
> > > - It was (Soviet) Russia, not Ukraine, that tried to conquer...Poland,
> > > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that starved...also some ethnic Poles....
> > > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, which...was exterminating Poles
> > > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that joined Hitler in 1939 to stab the desperately fighting Poland
> > > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that annexed half of the prewar Poland
> > > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that to subjugate Poland
> > > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, who... gave the Nazi Germans time to raze Warsaw to the ground and to kill ~ 200,000 Poles.
> > > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that then occupied Poland, ...which resulted in the death
> > > - it is Russia not Ukraine, who revives the cult of Stalin, "
> > >
> > > So according to Piotr's faulty logic Poles
> > > are supposed to LOVE Ukrainians because
> > > their massacres were smaller and because
> > > other nations, more organized then Ukrainians,
> > > were far more destructive towards Poland.
> >
> > Ludek na wpol-mongolski nie posiadajacy
> > nawet wlasnego panstwa zerwal sie i niemalze
> > dzidami, widlami, nozami toporami i siekierami
> > wyrabal prawie 150 tysiecy czy nawet wiecej ludzi.
> > Pomyslec tylko jak wygladala by Rzez Wolynskia
> > gdyby Ukraincy posiadali wlasne silne i sprawne
> > panstwo.
> >
> > I za to Polacy maja ich kochac ze byli w
> > spontanicznej rzezi mniej wydajni nizeli
> > systematyczni Niemcy czy Rosjanie.
> > Takiej niedorzecznosci jeszcze w zyciu
> > nie slyszalam! Piotr przechodzi
> > samego siebie.
> >
> > Basia (Ona/Jej)
>
> > > This according to Piotr should be reason
> > > for LOVE!!?
> > >
> > > I think Piotr wants to explain something that
> > > does not and never existed and also as a side
> > > job wants to belittle Ukrainian murders of Poles.
> > >
> > > The so called "Love" between Poland and Ukraine
> > > is a recent invention subsidized and propagandized
> > > by Warsaw to cover its true policy of pitting Ukraine
> > > against Russia. Post-communists and some
> > > Poles in Washigton, most notably Brzezinski,
> > > for many years wanted to use Ukrainian to
> > > foment conflict and possibly a war with American
> > > participation. Wanted to use and pit the Banderite
> > > movement into military conflict with Russia through
> > > a policy of "brotherly" support for Ukrainian membership
> > > in NATO (which Russia opossed). These people did their
> > > bidding not out of love but in spite, ...out of revenge and
> > > hatred.
> > >
> > > Polish post-communists elites are in great number
> > > Ziomki's (re-patriants from Eastern Polish territories
> > > taken over by Soviet Union). Kaczynski is a Ziomek,
> > > Brzezinski was also. All portrayed themselves
> > > as great friends of Ukrainians and lovers of
> > > Ukraine. Tell these lies, this story of "love"
> > > to the million or so Ukrainians recently maimed
> > > or slaughtered because of a needless war.
> > >
> > > Basia (Ona/Jej)
>
> Troche zrozumienia hiztorii, Basiu.

No prosze, Bulba czyli kolejny apologeta
Rzezi Wolynskiej polecajacy nauke historii
w tym polskiej od jakiegos purytanskiego
Kwakra z Ameryki. Szkoda ze nie streczy
na polskiej grupie wykladow Jana Grossa
dzialajacego pod batuta innych Purytan-
Presbiterian z Princeton.

O rybolowstwie moze Bulba cos napisac?
Jakimis madrosciami sie podzielic. Puryran
zostawic Purytanom a nie Basi podrzucac.
Jakis drugi niedorzecznis z tego Bulby.

Basia (Ona/Jej)

> Jakas tam historie w technikum uczyli? Ponizej mozna sie podciagnac nieco w zrozumieniu powiazan Polski z Ukraina:
>
> https://youtu.be/_IBll--m7qI?si=-T7iKrT3JkvjgvMq

Re: I just got back from Ukraine...

<d6a1cb85-6154-40cd-91e4-ab76062ccf06n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: I just got back from Ukraine...
From: abjj...@sbcglobal.net (Basia)
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 by: Basia - Tue, 23 Jan 2024 03:49 UTC

On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 6:20:39 PM UTC-8, Basia wrote:
> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 4:34:55 PM UTC-8, Basia wrote:
> > On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 3:09:26 PM UTC-8, Piotr wrote:
> > > On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 7:55:39 AM UTC-3:30, Cameo wrote:
> > > > On 1/21/2024 12:26 AM, Basia wrote:
> > > > > https://twitter.com/MariaMateiciuc/status/1743658029893984735
> > > >
> > > > Yet, I never understood the big love affair between Poland and Ukraine.
> > > > Just think of the Wolhynia massacres.
> > Piotr:
> > "...Wolyn was a terrible massacre, but MUCH SMALLER than the massacres
> > and destruction from the hands of Russians over the centuries:
> > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that...wiped out Poland of the map for more than a century
> > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that occupied most Polish lands...
> > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that killed or sent to Siberia...
> > - It was (Soviet) Russia, not Ukraine, that tried to conquer...Poland,
> > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that starved...also some ethnic Poles...
> > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, which...was exterminating Poles
> > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that joined Hitler in 1939 to stab the desperately fighting Poland
> > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that annexed half of the prewar Poland
> > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that to subjugate Poland
> > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, who... gave the Nazi Germans time to raze Warsaw to the ground and to kill ~ 200,000 Poles.
> > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that then occupied Poland, ...which resulted in the death
> > - it is Russia not Ukraine, who revives the cult of Stalin, "
> >
> > So according to Piotr's faulty logic Poles
> > are supposed to LOVE Ukrainians because
> > their massacres were smaller and because
> > other nations, more organized then Ukrainians,
> > were far more destructive towards Poland.
> Ludek na wpol-mongolski nie posiadajacy
> nawet wlasnego panstwa zerwal sie i niemalze
> dzidami, widlami, nozami toporami i siekierami
> wyrabal prawie 150 tysiecy czy nawet wiecej ludzi.
> Pomyslec tylko jak wygladala by Rzez Wolynskia
> gdyby Ukraincy posiadali wlasne silne i sprawne
> panstwo.
>
> I za to Polacy maja ich kochac ze byli w
> spontanicznej rzezi mniej wydajni nizeli
> systematyczni Niemcy czy Rosjanie.

A w zasadzie z-germanizowani Rosjanie.
Dynastia Romanov'ow byla silnie spowinowacona
z Germanami, arystokratycznymi rodami
Niemiec i Europy Polnocnej i Zachodniej.

Stad min. klopoty Polski.

Z jednej strony Germanie, Bismarki i ich
protoplasci a z drugiej strony szkopki w
Moskwie- niemiecka caryca urodzona w
Prusach na rosyjskim tronie- czytaj antypolscy
zaborcy dzialajacy w komitywie, patrz caryca
Katarzyna.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_the_Great

Ludek ukrainski nie kontrolujac zadnego
Panstwa, zadnego tronu, bez zadnej polit-komitywy
germanskiej arystokracji, w porywie wlasnym
wymordowal w wiekszosci siekierami innymi
ostrymi narzedziami 150,000 Polakow.

Basia (Ona/Jej)
> Takiej niedorzecznosci jeszcze w zyciu
> nie slyszalam! Piotr przechodzi
> samego siebie.
>
> Basia (Ona/Jej)
>
> > This according to Piotr should be reason
> > for LOVE!!?
> >
> > I think Piotr wants to explain something that
> > does not and never existed and also as a side
> > job wants to belittle Ukrainian murders of Poles.
> >
> > The so called "Love" between Poland and Ukraine
> > is a recent invention subsidized and propagandized
> > by Warsaw to cover its true policy of pitting Ukraine
> > against Russia. Post-communists and some
> > Poles in Washigton, most notably Brzezinski,
> > for many years wanted to use Ukrainian to
> > foment conflict and possibly a war with American
> > participation. Wanted to use and pit the Banderite
> > movement into military conflict with Russia through
> > a policy of "brotherly" support for Ukrainian membership
> > in NATO (which Russia opossed). These people did their
> > bidding not out of love but in spite, ...out of revenge and
> > hatred.
> >
> > Polish post-communists elites are in great number
> > Ziomki's (re-patriants from Eastern Polish territories
> > taken over by Soviet Union). Kaczynski is a Ziomek,
> > Brzezinski was also. All portrayed themselves
> > as great friends of Ukrainians and lovers of
> > Ukraine. Tell these lies, this story of "love"
> > to the million or so Ukrainians recently maimed
> > or slaughtered because of a needless war.
> >
> > Basia (Ona/Jej)

Re: I just got back from Ukraine...

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Subject: Re: I just got back from Ukraine...
From: cyrylmet...@gmail.com (Russet Bulba)
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 by: Russet Bulba - Tue, 23 Jan 2024 12:08 UTC

On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 11:22:49 PM UTC-4, Basia wrote:
> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 6:41:37 PM UTC-8, Russet Bulba wrote:
> > On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 10:20:39 PM UTC-4, Basia wrote:
> > > On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 4:34:55 PM UTC-8, Basia wrote:
> > > > On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 3:09:26 PM UTC-8, Piotr wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 7:55:39 AM UTC-3:30, Cameo wrote:
> > > > > > On 1/21/2024 12:26 AM, Basia wrote:
> > > > > > > https://twitter.com/MariaMateiciuc/status/1743658029893984735
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yet, I never understood the big love affair between Poland and Ukraine.
> > > > > > Just think of the Wolhynia massacres.
> > > >
> > > > Piotr:
> > > > "...Wolyn was a terrible massacre, but MUCH SMALLER than the massacres
> > > > and destruction from the hands of Russians over the centuries:
> > > > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that...wiped out Poland of the map for more than a century
> > > > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that occupied most Polish lands...
> > > > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that killed or sent to Siberia...
> > > > - It was (Soviet) Russia, not Ukraine, that tried to conquer...Poland,
> > > > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that starved...also some ethnic Poles....
> > > > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, which...was exterminating Poles
> > > > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that joined Hitler in 1939 to stab the desperately fighting Poland
> > > > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that annexed half of the prewar Poland
> > > > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that to subjugate Poland
> > > > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, who... gave the Nazi Germans time to raze Warsaw to the ground and to kill ~ 200,000 Poles.
> > > > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that then occupied Poland, ...which resulted in the death
> > > > - it is Russia not Ukraine, who revives the cult of Stalin, "
> > > >
> > > > So according to Piotr's faulty logic Poles
> > > > are supposed to LOVE Ukrainians because
> > > > their massacres were smaller and because
> > > > other nations, more organized then Ukrainians,
> > > > were far more destructive towards Poland.
> > >
> > > Ludek na wpol-mongolski nie posiadajacy
> > > nawet wlasnego panstwa zerwal sie i niemalze
> > > dzidami, widlami, nozami toporami i siekierami
> > > wyrabal prawie 150 tysiecy czy nawet wiecej ludzi.
> > > Pomyslec tylko jak wygladala by Rzez Wolynskia
> > > gdyby Ukraincy posiadali wlasne silne i sprawne
> > > panstwo.
> > >
> > > I za to Polacy maja ich kochac ze byli w
> > > spontanicznej rzezi mniej wydajni nizeli
> > > systematyczni Niemcy czy Rosjanie.
> > > Takiej niedorzecznosci jeszcze w zyciu
> > > nie slyszalam! Piotr przechodzi
> > > samego siebie.
> > >
> > > Basia (Ona/Jej)
> >
> > > > This according to Piotr should be reason
> > > > for LOVE!!?
> > > >
> > > > I think Piotr wants to explain something that
> > > > does not and never existed and also as a side
> > > > job wants to belittle Ukrainian murders of Poles.
> > > >
> > > > The so called "Love" between Poland and Ukraine
> > > > is a recent invention subsidized and propagandized
> > > > by Warsaw to cover its true policy of pitting Ukraine
> > > > against Russia. Post-communists and some
> > > > Poles in Washigton, most notably Brzezinski,
> > > > for many years wanted to use Ukrainian to
> > > > foment conflict and possibly a war with American
> > > > participation. Wanted to use and pit the Banderite
> > > > movement into military conflict with Russia through
> > > > a policy of "brotherly" support for Ukrainian membership
> > > > in NATO (which Russia opossed). These people did their
> > > > bidding not out of love but in spite, ...out of revenge and
> > > > hatred.
> > > >
> > > > Polish post-communists elites are in great number
> > > > Ziomki's (re-patriants from Eastern Polish territories
> > > > taken over by Soviet Union). Kaczynski is a Ziomek,
> > > > Brzezinski was also. All portrayed themselves
> > > > as great friends of Ukrainians and lovers of
> > > > Ukraine. Tell these lies, this story of "love"
> > > > to the million or so Ukrainians recently maimed
> > > > or slaughtered because of a needless war.
> > > >
> > > > Basia (Ona/Jej)
> >
> > Troche zrozumienia hiztorii, Basiu.
> No prosze, Bulba czyli kolejny apologeta
> Rzezi Wolynskiej polecajacy nauke historii
> w tym polskiej od jakiegos purytanskiego
> Kwakra z Ameryki. Szkoda ze nie streczy
> na polskiej grupie wykladow Jana Grossa
> dzialajacego pod batuta innych Purytan-
> Presbiterian z Princeton.
>
> O rybolowstwie moze Bulba cos napisac?
> Jakimis madrosciami sie podzielic. Puryran
> zostawic Purytanom a nie Basi podrzucac.
> Jakis drugi niedorzecznis z tego Bulby.
>
> Basia (Ona/Jej)
> > Jakas tam historie w technikum uczyli? Ponizej mozna sie podciagnac nieco w zrozumieniu powiazan Polski z Ukraina:
> >
> > https://youtu.be/_IBll--m7qI?si=-T7iKrT3JkvjgvMq

Moge napisac o rybolowstwie. Szczerze i otwarcie. Co Basie-Edwarda-Stanislawa interesuje? A co do Ukrainy, to prosze sie poduczyc nieco i watpliwosci bede rozwiazane. Kiedy kijowskie duchowienstwo bylo literackie, to moskiewskie ciemne jeszcze, jak tabaka w rogu. W ktorym to roku zalozono pierwszy w Polsce uniwersytet a w ktorym w Rosji? Miala Rosja okres europejskiego Odrodzenia i Oswiecenia? Jak to Basia pojmie, to i zrozumie nawet wspolczesne zawisci i kompleksy intelektualnej Rosji. Ale Basia chce sama otwarte drzwi wywazac. Albo rewidowac historie bez znajomosci podstawowych faktow.

Re: I just got back from Ukraine...

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Subject: Re: I just got back from Ukraine...
From: abjj...@sbcglobal.net (Basia)
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 by: Basia - Tue, 23 Jan 2024 19:00 UTC

On Tuesday, January 23, 2024 at 4:08:46 AM UTC-8, Russet Bulba wrote:
> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 11:22:49 PM UTC-4, Basia wrote:
> > On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 6:41:37 PM UTC-8, Russet Bulba wrote:
> > > On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 10:20:39 PM UTC-4, Basia wrote:
> > > > On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 4:34:55 PM UTC-8, Basia wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 3:09:26 PM UTC-8, Piotr wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 7:55:39 AM UTC-3:30, Cameo wrote:
> > > > > > > On 1/21/2024 12:26 AM, Basia wrote:
> > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/MariaMateiciuc/status/1743658029893984735
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yet, I never understood the big love affair between Poland and Ukraine.
> > > > > > > Just think of the Wolhynia massacres.
> > > > >
> > > > > Piotr:
> > > > > "...Wolyn was a terrible massacre, but MUCH SMALLER than the massacres
> > > > > and destruction from the hands of Russians over the centuries:
> > > > > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that...wiped out Poland of the map for more than a century
> > > > > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that occupied most Polish lands...
> > > > > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that killed or sent to Siberia...
> > > > > - It was (Soviet) Russia, not Ukraine, that tried to conquer...Poland,
> > > > > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that starved...also some ethnic Poles...
> > > > > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, which...was exterminating Poles
> > > > > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that joined Hitler in 1939 to stab the desperately fighting Poland
> > > > > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that annexed half of the prewar Poland
> > > > > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that to subjugate Poland
> > > > > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, who... gave the Nazi Germans time to raze Warsaw to the ground and to kill ~ 200,000 Poles.
> > > > > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that then occupied Poland, ...which resulted in the death
> > > > > - it is Russia not Ukraine, who revives the cult of Stalin, "
> > > > >
> > > > > So according to Piotr's faulty logic Poles
> > > > > are supposed to LOVE Ukrainians because
> > > > > their massacres were smaller and because
> > > > > other nations, more organized then Ukrainians,
> > > > > were far more destructive towards Poland.
> > > >
> > > > Ludek na wpol-mongolski nie posiadajacy
> > > > nawet wlasnego panstwa zerwal sie i niemalze
> > > > dzidami, widlami, nozami toporami i siekierami
> > > > wyrabal prawie 150 tysiecy czy nawet wiecej ludzi.
> > > > Pomyslec tylko jak wygladala by Rzez Wolynskia
> > > > gdyby Ukraincy posiadali wlasne silne i sprawne
> > > > panstwo.
> > > >
> > > > I za to Polacy maja ich kochac ze byli w
> > > > spontanicznej rzezi mniej wydajni nizeli
> > > > systematyczni Niemcy czy Rosjanie.
> > > > Takiej niedorzecznosci jeszcze w zyciu
> > > > nie slyszalam! Piotr przechodzi
> > > > samego siebie.
> > > >
> > > > Basia (Ona/Jej)
> > >
> > > > > This according to Piotr should be reason
> > > > > for LOVE!!?
> > > > >
> > > > > I think Piotr wants to explain something that
> > > > > does not and never existed and also as a side
> > > > > job wants to belittle Ukrainian murders of Poles.
> > > > >
> > > > > The so called "Love" between Poland and Ukraine
> > > > > is a recent invention subsidized and propagandized
> > > > > by Warsaw to cover its true policy of pitting Ukraine
> > > > > against Russia. Post-communists and some
> > > > > Poles in Washigton, most notably Brzezinski,
> > > > > for many years wanted to use Ukrainian to
> > > > > foment conflict and possibly a war with American
> > > > > participation. Wanted to use and pit the Banderite
> > > > > movement into military conflict with Russia through
> > > > > a policy of "brotherly" support for Ukrainian membership
> > > > > in NATO (which Russia opossed). These people did their
> > > > > bidding not out of love but in spite, ...out of revenge and
> > > > > hatred.
> > > > >
> > > > > Polish post-communists elites are in great number
> > > > > Ziomki's (re-patriants from Eastern Polish territories
> > > > > taken over by Soviet Union). Kaczynski is a Ziomek,
> > > > > Brzezinski was also. All portrayed themselves
> > > > > as great friends of Ukrainians and lovers of
> > > > > Ukraine. Tell these lies, this story of "love"
> > > > > to the million or so Ukrainians recently maimed
> > > > > or slaughtered because of a needless war.
> > > > >
> > > > > Basia (Ona/Jej)
> > >
> > > Troche zrozumienia hiztorii, Basiu.
>> >
>> > No prosze, Bulba czyli kolejny apologeta
> > Rzezi Wolynskiej polecajacy nauke historii
> > w tym polskiej od jakiegos purytanskiego
> > Kwakra z Ameryki. Szkoda ze nie streczy
> > na polskiej grupie wykladow Jana Grossa
> > dzialajacego pod batuta innych Purytan-
> > Presbiterian z Princeton.
> >
> > O rybolowstwie moze Bulba cos napisac?
> > Jakimis madrosciami sie podzielic. Puryran
> > zostawic Purytanom a nie Basi podrzucac.
> > Jakis drugi niedorzecznis z tego Bulby.
> >
> > Basia (Ona/Jej)
> > >
> > > Jakas tam historie w technikum uczyli? Ponizej mozna sie podciagnac nieco w zrozumieniu powiazan Polski z Ukraina:
> > >
> > > https://youtu.be/_IBll--m7qI?si=-T7iKrT3JkvjgvMq
>
> Moge napisac o rybolowstwie. Szczerze i otwarcie. Co Basie-Edwarda-Stanislawa interesuje? A co do Ukrainy, to prosze sie poduczyc nieco i watpliwosci bede rozwiazane.

Wiem ze wszelakie trendy w tym trendy historyczne
maja tendencje perpetuowac czy kontynuowac sie.
Ukrainy nie bylo gdy inne panstwa istnialy juz dlugimi
wiekami i tak moze byc znowu, jezeli w ogole trend
sie zmienil.

Tutaj niedawna wypowiedz nie byle jakiego Ukrainca
ale bylego doradcy Zelenskiego:

"Nasz problem polega na tym, że w momentach zwrotnych naszej historii stawiamy na stronę, która przegrywa.
Tak było podczas wojny północnej, gdy Mazepa postawił na Szwedów, tak było podczas I wojny światowej,
gdy Skoropadski postawił na Niemców, ...jest bardzo prawdopodobne, że teraz zmierzamy w stronę powtórzenia
tej samej historii." Oleksij Arestowicz

https://twitter.com/arestovych/status/1747584308385087563

Basia (Ona/Jej)

> Kiedy kijowskie duchowienstwo bylo literackie, to moskiewskie ciemne jeszcze, jak tabaka w rogu. W ktorym to roku zalozono pierwszy w Polsce uniwersytet a w ktorym w Rosji? Miala Rosja okres europejskiego Odrodzenia i Oswiecenia? Jak to Basia pojmie, to i zrozumie nawet wspolczesne zawisci i kompleksy intelektualnej Rosji. Ale Basia chce sama otwarte drzwi wywazac. Albo rewidowac historie bez znajomosci podstawowych faktow.

Re: I just got back from Ukraine...

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Subject: Re: I just got back from Ukraine...
From: cyrylmet...@gmail.com (Russet Bulba)
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 by: Russet Bulba - Tue, 23 Jan 2024 20:15 UTC

On Tuesday, January 23, 2024 at 3:00:56 PM UTC-4, Basia wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 23, 2024 at 4:08:46 AM UTC-8, Russet Bulba wrote:
> > On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 11:22:49 PM UTC-4, Basia wrote:
> > > On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 6:41:37 PM UTC-8, Russet Bulba wrote:
> > > > On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 10:20:39 PM UTC-4, Basia wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 4:34:55 PM UTC-8, Basia wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 3:09:26 PM UTC-8, Piotr wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 7:55:39 AM UTC-3:30, Cameo wrote:
> > > > > > > > On 1/21/2024 12:26 AM, Basia wrote:
> > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/MariaMateiciuc/status/1743658029893984735
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yet, I never understood the big love affair between Poland and Ukraine.
> > > > > > > > Just think of the Wolhynia massacres.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Piotr:
> > > > > > "...Wolyn was a terrible massacre, but MUCH SMALLER than the massacres
> > > > > > and destruction from the hands of Russians over the centuries:
> > > > > > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that...wiped out Poland of the map for more than a century
> > > > > > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that occupied most Polish lands....
> > > > > > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that killed or sent to Siberia...
> > > > > > - It was (Soviet) Russia, not Ukraine, that tried to conquer...Poland,
> > > > > > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, that starved...also some ethnic Poles...
> > > > > > - It was Russia, not Ukraine, which...was exterminating Poles
> > > > > > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that joined Hitler in 1939 to stab the desperately fighting Poland
> > > > > > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that annexed half of the prewar Poland
> > > > > > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that to subjugate Poland
> > > > > > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, who... gave the Nazi Germans time to raze Warsaw to the ground and to kill ~ 200,000 Poles.
> > > > > > - it was Russia, not Ukraine, that then occupied Poland, ...which resulted in the death
> > > > > > - it is Russia not Ukraine, who revives the cult of Stalin, "
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So according to Piotr's faulty logic Poles
> > > > > > are supposed to LOVE Ukrainians because
> > > > > > their massacres were smaller and because
> > > > > > other nations, more organized then Ukrainians,
> > > > > > were far more destructive towards Poland.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ludek na wpol-mongolski nie posiadajacy
> > > > > nawet wlasnego panstwa zerwal sie i niemalze
> > > > > dzidami, widlami, nozami toporami i siekierami
> > > > > wyrabal prawie 150 tysiecy czy nawet wiecej ludzi.
> > > > > Pomyslec tylko jak wygladala by Rzez Wolynskia
> > > > > gdyby Ukraincy posiadali wlasne silne i sprawne
> > > > > panstwo.
> > > > >
> > > > > I za to Polacy maja ich kochac ze byli w
> > > > > spontanicznej rzezi mniej wydajni nizeli
> > > > > systematyczni Niemcy czy Rosjanie.
> > > > > Takiej niedorzecznosci jeszcze w zyciu
> > > > > nie slyszalam! Piotr przechodzi
> > > > > samego siebie.
> > > > >
> > > > > Basia (Ona/Jej)
> > > >
> > > > > > This according to Piotr should be reason
> > > > > > for LOVE!!?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think Piotr wants to explain something that
> > > > > > does not and never existed and also as a side
> > > > > > job wants to belittle Ukrainian murders of Poles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The so called "Love" between Poland and Ukraine
> > > > > > is a recent invention subsidized and propagandized
> > > > > > by Warsaw to cover its true policy of pitting Ukraine
> > > > > > against Russia. Post-communists and some
> > > > > > Poles in Washigton, most notably Brzezinski,
> > > > > > for many years wanted to use Ukrainian to
> > > > > > foment conflict and possibly a war with American
> > > > > > participation. Wanted to use and pit the Banderite
> > > > > > movement into military conflict with Russia through
> > > > > > a policy of "brotherly" support for Ukrainian membership
> > > > > > in NATO (which Russia opossed). These people did their
> > > > > > bidding not out of love but in spite, ...out of revenge and
> > > > > > hatred.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Polish post-communists elites are in great number
> > > > > > Ziomki's (re-patriants from Eastern Polish territories
> > > > > > taken over by Soviet Union). Kaczynski is a Ziomek,
> > > > > > Brzezinski was also. All portrayed themselves
> > > > > > as great friends of Ukrainians and lovers of
> > > > > > Ukraine. Tell these lies, this story of "love"
> > > > > > to the million or so Ukrainians recently maimed
> > > > > > or slaughtered because of a needless war.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Basia (Ona/Jej)
> > > >
> > > > Troche zrozumienia hiztorii, Basiu.
> >> >
> >> > No prosze, Bulba czyli kolejny apologeta
> > > Rzezi Wolynskiej polecajacy nauke historii
> > > w tym polskiej od jakiegos purytanskiego
> > > Kwakra z Ameryki. Szkoda ze nie streczy
> > > na polskiej grupie wykladow Jana Grossa
> > > dzialajacego pod batuta innych Purytan-
> > > Presbiterian z Princeton.
> > >
> > > O rybolowstwie moze Bulba cos napisac?
> > > Jakimis madrosciami sie podzielic. Puryran
> > > zostawic Purytanom a nie Basi podrzucac.
> > > Jakis drugi niedorzecznis z tego Bulby.
> > >
> > > Basia (Ona/Jej)
> > > >
> > > > Jakas tam historie w technikum uczyli? Ponizej mozna sie podciagnac nieco w zrozumieniu powiazan Polski z Ukraina:
> > > >
> > > > https://youtu.be/_IBll--m7qI?si=-T7iKrT3JkvjgvMq
> >
> > Moge napisac o rybolowstwie. Szczerze i otwarcie. Co Basie-Edwarda-Stanislawa interesuje? A co do Ukrainy, to prosze sie poduczyc nieco i watpliwosci bede rozwiazane.
> Wiem ze wszelakie trendy w tym trendy historyczne
> maja tendencje perpetuowac czy kontynuowac sie.
> Ukrainy nie bylo gdy inne panstwa istnialy juz dlugimi
> wiekami i tak moze byc znowu, jezeli w ogole trend
> sie zmienil.
>
> Tutaj niedawna wypowiedz nie byle jakiego Ukrainca
> ale bylego doradcy Zelenskiego:
>
> "Nasz problem polega na tym, że w momentach zwrotnych naszej historii stawiamy na stronę, która przegrywa.
> Tak było podczas wojny północnej, gdy Mazepa postawił na Szwedów, tak było podczas I wojny światowej,
> gdy Skoropadski postawił na Niemców, ...jest bardzo prawdopodobne, że teraz zmierzamy w stronę powtórzenia
> tej samej historii." Oleksij Arestowicz
>
> https://twitter.com/arestovych/status/1747584308385087563
>
> Basia (Ona/Jej)
> > Kiedy kijowskie duchowienstwo bylo literackie, to moskiewskie ciemne jeszcze, jak tabaka w rogu. W ktorym to roku zalozono pierwszy w Polsce uniwersytet a w ktorym w Rosji? Miala Rosja okres europejskiego Odrodzenia i Oswiecenia? Jak to Basia pojmie, to i zrozumie nawet wspolczesne zawisci i kompleksy intelektualnej Rosji. Ale Basia chce sama otwarte drzwi wywazac. Albo rewidowac historie bez znajomosci podstawowych faktow.

Byc moze o ile Ukraina zostanie porzucona przez USA i EU. Stawiala tez Ukraina na Rosje, jak w tym traktacie przyjazi lecz niewiele to dawalo. Polityczne gangi z Ukrainy Wschodniej zwiazane etnicznie i politycznie z Rosja prawdziwy rozwoj uniemozliwialy. A dalekocelowym zamiarem Rosji jest wchloniecie zarowno Ukrainy jak i Bislorusi i rozpuszczenie ich w rosyjskim zywiole. Jak i tez wszelkich innych mniejszosci. Przewaza tam poglad, iz jednolite imperium ma duzo wieksza wartosc niz sfederalizowana republika. Tak wiec wojna Ukrainy to nie tylko o suwerennosc, integralnosc terytorialna ale i o tozsamosc narodowa oparta o baze jezyka ukrainskiego i ukrainskiej kultury. Udalo sie to wielu, w tym nam, Czechom, Slowakom, Litwinom, Lotyszom czy Estonczykom. Moze i im sie to uda w mniejszej lecz skonsolodowanej Ukrainie zdefiniowanej narodowo wobec Rosji a nie nas.


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Re: I just got back from Ukraine...

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Subject: Re: I just got back from Ukraine...
From: abjj...@sbcglobal.net (Basia)
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 by: Basia - Tue, 23 Jan 2024 21:24 UTC

On Tuesday, January 23, 2024 at 12:15:55 PM UTC-8, Russet Bulba wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 23, 2024 at 3:00:56 PM UTC-4, Basia wrote:
> >
> > "Nasz problem polega na tym, że w momentach zwrotnych naszej historii stawiamy na stronę, która przegrywa.
> > Tak było podczas wojny północnej, gdy Mazepa postawił na Szwedów, tak było podczas I wojny światowej,
> > gdy Skoropadski postawił na Niemców, ...jest bardzo prawdopodobne, że teraz zmierzamy w stronę powtórzenia
> > tej samej historii." Oleksij Arestowicz
> >
> > https://twitter.com/arestovych/status/1747584308385087563
> >
> > Basia (Ona/Jej)
>
> Byc moze o ile Ukraina zostanie porzucona przez USA i EU.

Tej wojny juz raczej nie wygra a przynajmniej
nie bez rozprzestrzenienia sie jej na caly region
czy swiat. Zachodnie sankcje nie spowodowaly
kryzysu gospodarczego i walutowego w Rosji
a USA-NATO nie szykuja sie do ingerencji.
Dlugofalowy efekt sankcji jest obusieczny
wiec trudno cokolwiek przepowiedziec.

Nie wyglada to dobrze dla Ukrainy.

Basia (Ona/Jej)

Re: I just got back from Ukraine...

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From: cam...@unreal.invalid (Cameo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: I just got back from Ukraine...
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2024 22:33:42 +0100
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 by: Cameo - Tue, 23 Jan 2024 21:33 UTC

On 1/23/2024 12:09 AM, Piotr wrote:
> ... Romania and Hungary. And they refused the Allied bombers flying from Italy over the occupied Europe, and dropping the
> desperately needed arms and ammunition for the Uprising - the right to land on the nearby Russian airfields. (They allowed it
> only ONCE, at the very end, when the uprising was dying and most of the dropped supplies were either destroyed or intercepted
> by the Germans). Thus the Russians gave the Nazi Germans time to raze Warsaw to the ground and to kill ~ 200,000 Poles.

Without getting into long polemics with you about all the points you
mentioned here, let me just address one of them:

"... Romania and Hungary. And they refused the Allied bombers flying
from Italy over the occupied Europe, and dropping the
desperately needed arms and ammunition for the Uprising - the right to
land on the nearby Russian airfields. (They allowed it
only ONCE, at the very end, when the uprising was dying and most of the
dropped supplies were either destroyed or intercepted
by the Germans). Thus the Russians gave the Nazi Germans time to raze
Warsaw to the ground and to kill ~ 200,000 Poles."

You don't know what you are talking about. During the 1944 Warsaw
Uprising Hungary was occupied by German troops and thus were not in
position to allow Allied overflights. And as to Hungarian help to the
uprising is quite well documented by now. One of them summarizes it in
the following link:

https://visegradpost.com/en/2019/09/03/hungarians-and-the-warsaw-uprising/

Re: I just got back from Ukraine...

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Subject: Re: I just got back from Ukraine...
From: petre...@gmail.com (Piotr)
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 by: Piotr - Tue, 23 Jan 2024 23:44 UTC

On Tuesday, January 23, 2024 at 6:03:42 PM UTC-3:30, Cameo wrote:
> On 1/23/2024 12:09 AM, Piotr wrote:

> Without getting into long polemics with you about all the points you mentioned here, let me just address one of them:

>>-it was Russia, not Ukraine, who first encouraged through their radio and dropped leaflets the Poles to take
>> arms against the retreating Germans, and when they did on Aug.1, 1944 in Warsaw, starting the largest uprising of WWII
>> - Russians left them cold - stopped their offensive in Poland (even though it was the shortest way to Berlin) and diverted
>> the troops toward ... Romania and Hungary. And they refused the Allied bombers flying from Italy over the occupied
>> Europe, and dropping the desperately needed arms and ammunition for the Uprising - the right to land on the nearby
>> Russian airfields. (They allowed it only ONCE, at the very end, when the uprising was dying and most of the dropped
>> supplies were either destroyed or intercepted by the Germans). Thus the Russians gave the Nazi Germans time to raze
>> Warsaw to the ground and to kill ~ 200,000 Poles.

> You don't know what you are talking about. During the 1944 Warsaw Uprising Hungary was occupied by German
> troops and thus were not in position to allow Allied overflights.

Nobody was taking about _Hungarian_ airfields, Genius - the paragraph was about the Russian actions and Russian-controlled
airfields, that could have helped with the delivery of the weapons to Warsaw by British, American and Polish bombers,
and reduce greatly the Allied plane and crew losses.

But hey, don't let it stop you from your patronizing: "You don't know what you are talking about".

Arrogance walks hand in hand with ignorance.

Piotr
==
Cameo:
> Yet, I never understood the big love affair between Poland and Ukraine.
> Just think of the Wolhynia massacres.

Me:
"yes Wolyn was a terrible massacre, but MUCH SMALLER than the massacres and destruction from the hands
of Russians over the centuries:

- It was Russia, not Ukraine, that with the help of Prussia and Austria wiped out Poland of the map for more than a century

- It was Russia, not Ukraine, that occupied most Polish lands and tried to eradicate Polish language, culture and
Polish identity.

- It was Russia, not Ukraine, that killed or sent to Siberia those who opposed .

- It was (Soviet) Russia, not Ukraine, that tried to conquer not only Ukraine, but also Poland, and had to
beaten back, at high price in blood, at the gates of Warsaw.

- It was Russia, not Ukraine, that starved to death millions of its own citizens, mainly Ukrainians but including also some
ethnic Poles livng there during the Holodomor.

- It was Russia, not Ukraine, which during the so-called "Polish operation" in mid 1930-ies was exterminating Poles
at the rate much faster than the Nazi Germany was exterminating Jews before the war - 100 000 of ethnic Poles executed,
who knows how many sent and killed in Gulag,

- it was Russia, not Ukraine, that joined Hitler in 1939 to stab the desperately fighting Poland in the back

- it was Russia, not Ukraine, that annexed half of the prewar Poland and was exterminating Poles civilian population
on those lands - 100,000s of executed, who knows how many more, entire families, deported in cattle cars, to die
of cold in the camps in Siberia, or to die of diseases and malnutrition in Kazachstan

- it was Russia, not Ukraine, that to subjugate Poland - executed 15-22 thousand of Polish intelligentsia in Katyn and other POW camps
in 1940

-it was Russia, not Ukraine, who first encouraged through their radio and dropped leaflets the Poles to take arms against
the retreating Germans, and when they did on Aug.1, 1944 in Warsaw, starting the largest uprising of WWII - Russians left
them cold - stopped their offensive in Poland (even though it was the shortest way to Berlin) and diverted the troops toward
.... Romania and Hungary. And they refused the Allied bombers flying from Italy over the occupied Europe, and dropping the
desperately needed arms and ammunition for the Uprising - the right to land on the nearby Russian airfields. (They allowed it
only ONCE, at the very end, when the uprising was dying and most of the dropped supplies were either destroyed or intercepted
by the Germans). Thus the Russians gave the Nazi Germans time to raze Warsaw to the ground and to kill ~ 200,000 Poles.

- it was Russia, not Ukraine, that then occupied Poland, forced upon Poles the Communism, which resulted in the death
or imprisonment of 100,000s Poles

- it is Russia not Ukraine, who revives the cult of Stalin, and decried the fall of the Soviet Union as "the greatest tragedy of
the XX century" (V.Putin) and hopes to restore the borders and/of control over other countries enjoyed by the Russian Empire
(and not only in Europe: "Vladimir Putin signed a decree declaring the sale of Alaska to the USA as illegal.")

So, if you were a Pole - you'd know how it feels to have been invaded by an imperialist army of your powerful neighbour
who tries to eradicate your culture, language, national identity and history.

And you'd know that, if we allow the brave people of Ukraine to fall, because of not supporting them enough out of our
shortsighted egoism or blaming them for things they are not responsible for (NONE of the 10s of thousands of Ukrainians
killed by Russians was old enough to murder Poles in 1943), then Poland, along with the Baltic republics and Moldova,
will be NEXT: the bully never stops when he wins, the opposite - he takes it as a confirmation of his superiority, and
encouragement to go further.

In Paris in 1939, some French marched with slogans "We don't want to die for Poland". Half a year later they were dying, in vain,
for France. At the moment nobody asks us die, all they ask us is to support them with enough weapons and supplies to have
chance to fight off Russians trying to conquer their country. And most Poles know, that if let the Ukraine fall alone,
we will pay the price with blood of Polish men and women after Russia decides to de-Nazify Poland."

Re: I just got back from Ukraine...

<uor5m0$1r5lq$1@dont-email.me>

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From: cam...@unreal.invalid (Cameo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: I just got back from Ukraine...
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 15:09:08 +0100
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 by: Cameo - Wed, 24 Jan 2024 14:09 UTC

On 1/24/2024 12:44 AM, Piotr wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 23, 2024 at 6:03:42 PM UTC-3:30, Cameo wrote:
>> On 1/23/2024 12:09 AM, Piotr wrote:
>
>
>> Without getting into long polemics with you about all the points you mentioned here, let me just address one of them:
>
>>> -it was Russia, not Ukraine, who first encouraged through their radio and dropped leaflets the Poles to take
>>> arms against the retreating Germans, and when they did on Aug.1, 1944 in Warsaw, starting the largest uprising of WWII
>>> - Russians left them cold - stopped their offensive in Poland (even though it was the shortest way to Berlin) and diverted
>>> the troops toward ... Romania and Hungary. And they refused the Allied bombers flying from Italy over the occupied
>>> Europe, and dropping the desperately needed arms and ammunition for the Uprising - the right to land on the nearby
>>> Russian airfields. (They allowed it only ONCE, at the very end, when the uprising was dying and most of the dropped
>>> supplies were either destroyed or intercepted by the Germans). Thus the Russians gave the Nazi Germans time to raze
>>> Warsaw to the ground and to kill ~ 200,000 Poles.
>
>> You don't know what you are talking about. During the 1944 Warsaw Uprising Hungary was occupied by German
>> troops and thus were not in position to allow Allied overflights.
>
> Nobody was taking about _Hungarian_ airfields, Genius - the paragraph was about the Russian actions and Russian-controlled
> airfields, that could have helped with the delivery of the weapons to Warsaw by British, American and Polish bombers,
> and reduce greatly the Allied plane and crew losses.

Nonsense! You specifically mentioned Hungary and Romania in that paragraph:

"... Romania and Hungary. And they refused the Allied bombers flying
from Italy over the occupied Europe, and dropping the
desperately needed arms and ammunition for the Uprising - the right to
land on the nearby Russian airfields. ..."

You can't wiggle yourself out of your ignorance this time, Einstein.

> But hey, don't let it stop you from your patronizing: "You don't know what you are talking about".
>
> Arrogance walks hand in hand with ignorance.

When it comes to arrogance, it is
coming from you here.
What a pathetic, classless troll you are!

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