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interests / rec.games.backgammon / Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?

SubjectAuthor
* Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?MK
+* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Axel Reichert
|+* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?MK
||+* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Axel Reichert
|||+* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?MK
||||`* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Axel Reichert
|||| `- Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?MK
|||`* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?MK
||| `* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Axel Reichert
|||  +* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?MK
|||  |`* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Grunty
|||  | +* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Axel Reichert
|||  | |+* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Timothy Chow
|||  | ||+- Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Axel Reichert
|||  | ||`* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Nasti Chestikov
|||  | || `* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Timothy Chow
|||  | ||  `* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?MK
|||  | ||   `- Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Timothy Chow
|||  | |`- Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?MK
|||  | `* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?MK
|||  |  `- Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?MK
|||  `* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Timothy Chow
|||   `* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?MK
|||    `- Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Timothy Chow
||`* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Axel Reichert
|| `* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?MK
||  `* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Timothy Chow
||   `- Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?MK
|`* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Timothy Chow
| +* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?peps...@gmail.com
| |+- Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?peps...@gmail.com
| |`* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Timothy Chow
| | `- Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?peps...@gmail.com
| `- Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?MK
+* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Simon Woodhead
|`* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?MK
| `* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Simon Woodhead
|  +* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Axel Reichert
|  |+- Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Simon Woodhead
|  |`- Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?MK
|  `* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?MK
|   +- Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Simon Woodhead
|   `* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Timothy Chow
|    `- Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?MK
`* Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?Frank Berger
 `- Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?MK

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Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?

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Subject: Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?
From: mur...@compuplus.net (MK)
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 by: MK - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 03:07 UTC

On April 13, 2022 at 1:06:05 AM UTC-6, Axel Reichert wrote:

> Simon Woodhead <si...@bglog.org> writes:
>> As Frank pointed out, developing this part of what
>> you want to do is easy enough, a few hours work.

> Easy? It is trivial! The statistics I have given in a
> previous reply were generated by 1 line of code.
> After reading "Classic Shell Scripting" and "Unix
> Power Tools" any willing learner should be ready
> to go. The problem is probably the "willing" ...

Sad to see you joing the club of dickheads. :(

> Although I have to admit that the non-swearing half
> of contributions (deliberately not using quotation
> marks here) is sometimes original and stimulating.
> At least I was thus enticed to learn and program
> ("hark, hark") something with Markov chains, which
> proved useful for my investigations about the
> beaver-caused "Petersburg paradox".

In the computer world, programming is the easiest
thing to do. That's why people advance from that to
system analysis and design, to testing, to innovating.

I'm glad someone expressedly benefited from my
contribution here, in this case was my proposing
some easy ways that people can use to prove to
themselves that the "so-called cube theroy" is just
a elaborate, fanciful pile of bullshit.

Unfortunately, even after his experiments proved
it to him, Axel is unable overcome his denial, or
order to accept it and contribute back by openly
sharing his findings. :(

> But the "value proposition" of this current project is
> very poor indeed, at least so far.

Yes, not only "so far" is the keyword here but also
everyone may not get the same mileage from the
same tank of gas... Especially not if you take off
making bullshit assertions by flooring the gas pedal
and coming to a backflip stop... ;)

MK

Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?

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Subject: Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?
From: mur...@compuplus.net (MK)
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 by: MK - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 03:44 UTC

On April 13, 2022 at 6:36:45 AM UTC-6, Tim Chow wrote:

> On 4/10/2022 5:36 AM, Axel Reichert wrote:
>> Continuing with the opening stage, we will have a
>> "combinatorial explosion" ....

> Let me see if I can translate the core of MK's question
> into more commonly understandable language.

I thought I was the common man speaking the
commonly understandable language here. Do
you think it may help better if you translate to a
laguage that mathematicians can understand?

> Create two large piles of backgammon positions.
> Pile 1 consists of positions taken from bot-versus-bot
> games. Pile 2 consists of positions taken from
> human-versus-human games.
> Can we train a classifier to distinguish between a
> randomly chosen position from Pile 1 and a randomly
> chosen position from Pile 2? Of course it won't be
> perfect because some positions will appear in both
> piles. But how high an accuracy/recall is possible?

That's not what I tried to say. In fact, I believe that
distinguishing between randomly chosen positions
would be not just "imperfect" but "impossible".

What I proposed was to create a chart from all the
positions in your Pile 1 and another chart from all
the positions in your Pile 2. Then take a chart made
from all the positions in a ramdom pile and compare
it to previous two charts to see if it looks like one of
them.

Depending on whether it looks "somewhat", "mostly"
or "exactly" like one of them, we may be able to say
that it must consists of positions taken from bot-
versus-bot games or from a human-versus-human
games with a proportionate confidence.

Thanks for trying to pitch in. I would like to see you
and others delve deeper into the discussion.

MK

Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?

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Subject: Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?
From: mur...@compuplus.net (MK)
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 by: MK - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 04:37 UTC

On April 13, 2022 at 8:37:39 PM UTC-6, Tim Chow wrote:

> On 4/13/2022 9:28 PM, MK wrote:

> In the old days, having human programmers propose
> specific features was more or less the only way to get
> off the ground with machine learning.

You must be, in your way, referring to 3rd paragrah of
4th chapter at this link, for example:

https://www.cs.cornell.edu/boom/2001sp/Tsinteris/gammon.htm

I quote for your convenience:

"Tesauro also released subsequent versions of TD-Gammon
"that built upon the initial success. Instead of just using a
"raw" board encoding (number of white and black pieces at
"each location) as input, a set of handcrafted features deemed
"important by experts was also added. This included pre-
"computed information such as the probability of being hit,
"or the strength of a blockade.

We have discussed this many times, in different contexts,
and I did/do object to it as the injected human bias in all
current bots that are all offsprings of TD-G v2. which has
become much worse when bots started to be trained to
play matches, cubeful money games, etc....

> Nowadays, though, the increase in computing power means
> that it's often better to just let the programs discover their
> own features rather than hand-craft features using human
> expertise.

Yes, of course. As you know I have long advocated that new
alpha-zero type bots should be trained through only random
checker play for backgammon and through random cube
play in addition to that for gamble-gammon.

> Static features are simpler but dynamic features tend to
> be more powerful, and again because of the increase in
> computing power, dynamic features tend to be the way to
> go if they are available.

Again, I agree in essence. However, what you call "static
features" may be used as a compromise to improve the
existing bots while waiting for alspha-zero type bots.

Often updated "static features" can also be a reasonable
compromise for "dynamic features" in the meantime.

Are you also talking about bots running on user computers
continuing to train themselves during actual play?

Would they then collect all the ongoing trainings at a hub
and redistribute to users?

What would be the likelyhood of "rooster fights" between
privately trained bots by world-class-rooster-training giants
instead of them competing themselves against one another? :)

MK

Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?

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Subject: Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?
From: mur...@compuplus.net (MK)
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 by: MK - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 07:45 UTC

On April 14, 2022 at 1:51:58 PM UTC-6, Axel Reichert wrote:

> MK <mu...@compuplus.net> writes:
>> If it makes sense to have bots with doable opening and
>> closing (bear-off) books, why not a doable mid-game book?

> Because in contrast to bear-off positions and especially
> opening positions you will almost never come across
> exactly the same "landmark". Hence the cartographer's
> work would be futile. No one else will visit the same spot
> in forseeable time. This is caused by the branching factor
> of the dice, even if an algorithm plays the same position
> always in the same way.

After a break, I'm back. Sorry folk, I can't stop posting
tonight. I'm still under the influence of a covid booster.

Instead of talking about them as Manhattan or Seattle
size, I wanted to use the actual numbers of possible
opening and closing positions. I searched and found
that there are 54,263 possible bear-off positions but
couldn't find the number for opening positions. Does
anyone know it offhand?

About mid-game positions, I understand the branching
factor and all that but I personally think that they won't
branch out as much as what would be expected.

I believe the "theoretical" number of possible positions
is calculated based on backgammon and if so, I would
propose that the branching factor for gamble-gammon
will be smaller.

For either game, as the skill level of the opponents go
up, the "actual" branching factor will go down because
the moves will become more consistent and thus more
repetitive, causing the resulting positions to branch out
less and occur more frequently.

I'm as happy to offer my estimates and opinions on it
as anyone else of you but I would be much happier to
have some actual numbers. Even if they may be based
on a small sample of only 100,000 games and thus not
very accurate, anything will be better than nothing.

(Please guys, spare me from dickhead comments like
I should count them myself and such. Thanks.)

MK

Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?

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Subject: Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?
From: mur...@compuplus.net (MK)
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 by: MK - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 08:30 UTC

On April 14, 2022 at 2:04:40 PM UTC-6, Axel Reichert wrote:

> MK <mu...@compuplus.net> writes:
>> On April 12, 2022 at 1:53:06 AM UTC-6, Axel Reichert wrote:

>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graph_(discrete_mathematics)
>> And now it's my turn to ask you what is the practical use (if
>> any) of this? Can you expand on what you mean by "with all
>> its consequences regarding application of graph theory"??

> I thought we were still in brainstorming mode? Also, it is YOUR
> burden to tell what you are after. I am just helping out with ideas.

Come on Axel, I can tell when you are trying to helpt out with
ideas and when you are "mathshitting" ;)

Even so, at that point I was only asking you elaborate on your
own words which didn't make any sense to me.

Since yesterday, I probably thought about discrete math graphs
more than you did. For example, after my last comments on it,
I realized the some positions (vertices) would have unplayable
rolls (loop edges). In some special positions like closed boards
with the opponent on the bar, none of the rolls will be playable.
Thus they all will be "loops" of that vertex, with none connecting
it to nother vertices. It will look like da daisy flower floating out
there in the space by itself. In fact, I understand that in that case
it becomes a separate graph by itself with a single vertex. And
do you know what it's called then? "A bouquet". :))

>> So, it's again my turn again to ask you what's the practical use
>> (if any) of this nonsense of yours?

> As before, I am just helping out with ideas. No need to flip-flop
> back into insulting mode.

Wow. I didn't know that you were so sensitive to feel insulted by
by my calling some of your comments "nonsense".

I was going to make pun of you by calling you "nonsensitive" but
I decide not to, fearing that you may think I made fun of you and
run off crying... ;)

> Some paragraphs before, you were hypothesising about
> distinguishing bots from human, now humans are out.

No, they are not out. I only clarified that by "train ride" I meant
bot-vs-bot play. We can still talk about humans riding cars,
horses, bikes... And the idea is to differentiate between styles,
strategies, etc. more than simple between bots and humans.

> And since you mention "measuring", but do not say what you
> want to measure, I am out as well. Good luck with your project.

This is a "nonsensitive" excuse. If the kitchen got too hot for
you, fine, you can go.

If you want to come back later to accept by your own will that
some of your comments were wrong, incomplete, useless or
whatever, I'll allow you to be polite to yourself and use your
choice of nice words... ;) Okay?? :)

MK

Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?

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Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?
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 by: Timothy Chow - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 03:17 UTC

On 4/14/2022 10:40 PM, MK wrote:
> You guys are stingy of donating a few hours to a
> project for the sake of the game but you don't mind
> wasting as many hours at being dickheads to me. :(

Someone should invent a saying about the color of common kitchen items.

---
Tim Chow

Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?

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 by: Timothy Chow - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 03:22 UTC

On 4/14/2022 4:04 PM, Axel Reichert wrote:
> As before, I am just helping out with ideas. No need to flip-flop back
> into insulting mode.

Fun fact: there's an early Persian version of the fable in which it
stings a turtle rather than a frog.

---
Tim Chow

Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?

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Subject: Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?
From: grunting...@yahoo.com (Grunty)
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 by: Grunty - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 05:50 UTC

On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 5:30:20 AM UTC-3, MK wrote:
> [...]
> (Please guys, spare me from dickhead comments like
> I should count them myself and such. Thanks.)
> [...]
> Wow. I didn't know that you were so sensitive to feel insulted by
> by my calling some of your comments "nonsense".
>
> I was going to make pun of you by calling you "nonsensitive" but
> I decide not to, fearing that you may think I made fun of you and
> run off crying... ;)
> [...]
> This is a "nonsensitive" excuse. If the kitchen got too hot for
> you, fine, you can go.
>
> If you want to come back later to accept by your own will that
> some of your comments were wrong, incomplete, useless or
> whatever, I'll allow you to be polite to yourself and use your
> choice of nice words... ;) Okay?? :)
>
> MK

And once again, Murat is left alone, king in his island, talking to the winds. His lack of manners and zeppelin-sized ego strike again, leading him to dilapidate his interlocutors' willingness to contribute to a discussion he himself proposed.

Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?

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From: mai...@axel-reichert.de (Axel Reichert)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 08:41:39 +0200
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 by: Axel Reichert - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 06:41 UTC

Grunty <gruntingdwarf@yahoo.com> writes:

> And once again, Murat is left alone, king in his island, talking to
> the winds. His lack of manners and zeppelin-sized ego strike again,
> leading him to dilapidate his interlocutors' willingness to contribute
> to a discussion he himself proposed.

(-:

Or, since we were having it from trivial programming tasks:

1. Come up with a vague idea that is somewhere between weird and
stimulating.

2. Get criticism from a diverse range of others, who point out
theoretical issues.

3. Fail to know/learn the theory behind the others' arguments.

4. Switch to ranting/insulting mode as next attempt to get the others do
the work for you.

5. Get further criticism (theoretical, satirical) or get ignored.

6. Switch to whining mode.

7. Stay silent for some weeks.

8. Repeat.

Best regards

Axel

Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?
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 by: Timothy Chow - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 13:07 UTC

On 4/16/2022 2:41 AM, Axel Reichert wrote:
> 4. Switch to ranting/insulting mode as next attempt to get the others do
> the work for you.

I think it would be fun to see MK try to coerce Nasti Chestikov
into doing work for him.

---
Tim Chow

Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?

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Subject: Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?
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 by: Axel Reichert - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 15:40 UTC

Timothy Chow <tchow12000@yahoo.com> writes:

> I think it would be fun to see MK try to coerce Nasti Chestikov
> into doing work for him.

Yes! I was thinking along the same lines. At least this would have a
famous precedent: If I remember correctly, David Hilbert (though upon
re-searching it, it could also have been Edmund Landau) was for a time
responsible to deal with claimants of the Wolfskehl prize for proving
Fermat's last conjecture. Since it was a highly tiresome work, at some
point he answered to a claimant along these lines: "Unfortunately the
mathematics you are using is too difficult for me, but I will refer you
to another more knowledgeable expert in this field, namely ..." (he
inserted the name of another claimant here). This turned out to reliably
dry up the stream of claimant correspondence. (-:

Best regards

Axel

Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?

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Subject: Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?
From: mur...@compuplus.net (MK)
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 by: MK - Mon, 18 Apr 2022 07:01 UTC

On April 15, 2022 at 9:17:35 PM UTC-6, Tim Chow wrote:

> On 4/14/2022 10:40 PM, MK wrote:

>> You guys are stingy of donating a few hours to a
>> project for the sake of the game but you don't mind
>> wasting as many hours at being dickheads to me. :(

> Someone should invent a saying about the color of
> common kitchen items.

I'll try if you tell me what color you want me to call you..?

MK

Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?

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Subject: Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?
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 by: MK - Mon, 18 Apr 2022 07:21 UTC

On April 15, 2022 at 9:22:02 PM UTC-6, Tim Chow wrote:

> On 4/14/2022 4:04 PM, Axel Reichert wrote:

>> As before, I am just helping out with ideas. No need
>> to flip-flop back into insulting mode.

> Fun fact: there's an early Persian version of the
> fable in which it stings a turtle rather than a frog.

What is fun about that..?? BTW, not all stingers are
bad. Think of the stinging nettle with its numerous
beneficial and medicinal uses. When you run out of
toilet paper during a discussion, just don't try to wipe
yourself with it.

How about a real fun math fact gift from me to you?

When a sick pack of mother loving, rooster sucking,
indiscreet mathematicians form a Markovian daisy
chain, in discrete mathematics it's called a "directed
cycle graph"... ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_graph

MK

Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?

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Subject: Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?
From: mur...@compuplus.net (MK)
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 by: MK - Mon, 18 Apr 2022 08:04 UTC

On April 15, 2022 at 11:50:31 PM UTC-6, Grunty wrote:

> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 5:30:20 AM UTC-3, MK wrote:

> And once again, Murat is left alone,

I was not "left" alone by them. I chased them off myself.

> king in his island, talking to the winds.

This neither new nor the first time. During my 26 years in
RGB, I've been mostly talking to the winds...

> His lack of manners and zeppelin-sized ego strike again,

Being a zeppeling among hot air balloons wasn't by my
choices. Manners and all are part the role I got cast here.
It's a dirty, nay, disgusting job but if somebody has to do it
but nobody else here has what it takes to do it, and if the
reward is worth it, then I don't mind being the one doing it.

> leading him to dilapidate his interlocutors' willingness to
> contribute to a discussion he himself proposed.

What you may have not noticed is that static noises were
already degrading the sound quality of the discussion...
In radio terminology static noise is called "parasite". Think
of an elephant dirtying himseld by taking a mud bath in
order to get rid of the parasites...

MK

PS: Have you guys ever heard the King Crimson song
called "I talk to the wind"? Here are the partial lyrics
and a link to listen to it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlKrH07au6E

......
I'm on the outside looking inside
What do I see?
Much confusion, disillusion
All around me

I talk to the wind
My words are all carried away
I talk to the wind
The wind does not hear, the wind cannot hear

You don't possess me, don't impress me
Just upset my mind
Can't instruct me or conduct me
Just use up my time

I talk to the wind
My words are all carried away
I talk to the wind
The wind does not hear, the wind cannot hear
........

Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?

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Subject: Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?
From: mur...@compuplus.net (MK)
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 by: MK - Mon, 18 Apr 2022 08:43 UTC

On April 16, 2022 at 12:41:41 AM UTC-6, Axel Reichert wrote:

> 1. Come up with a vague idea that is somewhere between
> weird and stimulating.
> 2. Get criticism from a diverse range of others, who point
> out theoretical issues.
> 3. Fail to know/learn the theory behind the others' arguments.
> 4. Switch to ranting/insulting mode as next attempt to get
> the others do the work for you.
> 5. Get further criticism (theoretical, satirical) or get ignored.
> 6. Switch to whining mode.
> 7. Stay silent for some weeks.
> 8. Repeat.

Here is my version:

1- Murat comes up with an interesting idea regarding BG.
2- After mulling over it for a while, he introduces to RGB.
3- Some people find it "stimulating" and join the discussion.
4- They fail to add much to it but they can't let Murat own it.
5- They start bulshitting big, mostly mathshitting since there
is quite a crowd of sick gambler mathematicians in RGB,
about even things not directly related to the subject, in
order to rise above Murat.
6- Murat slaps senseless one of the senseless sick puppies.
7- Little puppy feels offended and starts wailing and yipping.
8- Hearing him, all the other hyena puppies of RGB come out
of their holes, break their silence and all start yipping and
nipping at Murat's toes.
9- At first he is tickled and amused. Then he shoos them away.
10- The chorus of yelping, yowling, howling pack scatters off.
11- They go back to their daily addictive, compulsive routine
of discussing positions, pip counting, etc. ad nauseam.
12- After a hiatus, Murat comes up with a new idea about BG.
13- The routine repeats... :)

MK

Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?

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Subject: Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?
From: mur...@compuplus.net (MK)
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 by: MK - Mon, 18 Apr 2022 11:06 UTC

On April 18, 2022 at 2:04:13 AM UTC-6, MK wrote:

> PS: Have you guys ever heard the King Crimson song
> called "I talk to the wind"? Here are the partial lyrics
> and a link to listen to it:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlKrH07au6E

Shit, I'm on my second glass of wine at 4:00am and
following up to my own post, to myself.

This is all Grunty's fault. Please folks, stop reading.

After hearing the above song, I couldn't keep myself
from also listening to "Epitaph". But I managed to stop
there.

When that album came out, I was in 12th grade in a
boarding school. The best we could have then were
small transistor radios, with sound quality of police
walkie-talkies, that we could only listen to pressed
against our ears, with our head under our pillows.
Going to sleep listening to one of those songs, despite
the "parasite", was the high point of our days.

But what I want to talk about now is something else.
On that same youtube page, there were links to many
ELP songs. One of which took me weirdly from 1970's
to 2010's...

After the movie "Burlesque", all of a sudden an aged,
once wanna-be ballerina, then dance instructor to
children, had gathered enough bored wives in a small
rural town to put on a burlesque show. Frankly, they
did well beyond expectations, in their sexy fishnets.

After rehearsals, they would join everyone else in our
regular pubs where everyone almost knew everyone else.

One night, one of the youngish players complained to
me that she was scolded and forbidden from chewing
gum on the stage because that would interfere with her
acting.

I told her to go tell the older (near my age) chreographer
that Greg Palmer could sing while chewing gum.

It didn't register with her even enough to give me a blank
stare. It just flew over her head. But what if she had told
her boss? Would she know what I was referring to?

Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nyt57LxWy8

Buth then again how many people on this entire planet
would have ever noticed it and then remembered it 40+
years later and then again 10+ years later talking about
the frequency of BG positions.

I guess this is what happens when different Markov
chains and discrete math graphs collide like galaxies
swirling into one another, combinatorial supernovae
exploding, etc... This is all Grunty's fault... :(

MK

Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 10:14:12 -0400
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 by: Timothy Chow - Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:14 UTC

On 4/18/2022 3:21 AM, MK wrote:
> What is fun about that..??

It's fun because the comment elicits more entertaining nonsense
from you.

---
Tim Chow

Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?

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Subject: Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?
From: nasti.ch...@gmail.com (Nasti Chestikov)
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 by: Nasti Chestikov - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 17:30 UTC

On Saturday, 16 April 2022 at 14:07:16 UTC+1, Tim Chow wrote:
> On 4/16/2022 2:41 AM, Axel Reichert wrote:
> > 4. Switch to ranting/insulting mode as next attempt to get the others do
> > the work for you.
> I think it would be fun to see MK try to coerce Nasti Chestikov
> into doing work for him.
>
> ---
> Tim Chow

Or Timothy Chow coming out as Alex Choi and admitting that he hawks fast cars around YouTube.

So transparent.

Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
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Subject: Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 08:46:47 -0400
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 by: Timothy Chow - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 12:46 UTC

On 4/26/2022 1:30 PM, Nasti Chestikov wrote:
> On Saturday, 16 April 2022 at 14:07:16 UTC+1, Tim Chow wrote:
>> On 4/16/2022 2:41 AM, Axel Reichert wrote:
>>> 4. Switch to ranting/insulting mode as next attempt to get the others do
>>> the work for you.
>> I think it would be fun to see MK try to coerce Nasti Chestikov
>> into doing work for him.
>>
>> ---
>> Tim Chow
>
> Or Timothy Chow coming out as Alex Choi and admitting that he hawks fast cars around YouTube.
>
> So transparent.

I don't hawk fast cars much any more because I'm so busy
developing Eraser.

---
Tim Chow

Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?

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Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 14:46:48 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?
From: mur...@compuplus.net (MK)
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 by: MK - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 21:46 UTC

On April 27, 2022 at 6:46:49 AM UTC-6, Tim Chow wrote:

> I don't hawk fast cars much any more because I'm so busy
> developing Eraser.

This is your fifth or sixth asinine one-liner just in this thread
diluting/degrading the discussion along with several others
from your ilks... :(

Why can't you pathetic little sick cretins stay out of it if you
have nothing meaningful to contribute?

Why can't you mother loving, rooster sucking scumbags do
it in your own moronic discussions in threads that you can
start yourselves instead of spoiling mine?

MK

Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?

<t4csqs$v1a$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=8720&group=rec.games.backgammon#8720

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Any stats about the frequency of backgammon positions?
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 22:06:19 -0400
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 by: Timothy Chow - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 02:06 UTC

On 4/27/2022 5:46 PM, MK wrote:
> Why can't you pathetic little sick cretins stay out of it if you
> have nothing meaningful to contribute?
>
> Why can't you mother loving, rooster sucking scumbags do
> it in your own moronic discussions in threads that you can
> start yourselves instead of spoiling mine?

If your sock puppet talks, it's only common courtesy to respond!

---
Tim Chow

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