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interests / rec.games.backgammon / Re: Making progress through backgammon psychology

SubjectAuthor
* Making progress through backgammon psychologypeps...@gmail.com
`* Re: Making progress through backgammon psychologyTimothy Chow
 `* Re: Making progress through backgammon psychologyNasti Chestikov
  `* Re: Making progress through backgammon psychologypeps...@gmail.com
   `* Re: Making progress through backgammon psychologyNasti Chestikov
    `- Re: Making progress through backgammon psychologypeps...@gmail.com

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Making progress through backgammon psychology

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Subject: Making progress through backgammon psychology
From: pepste...@gmail.com (peps...@gmail.com)
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 by: peps...@gmail.com - Mon, 2 May 2022 10:51 UTC

I feel that, in a very wide variety of areas of human achievement,
psychological factors are ignored. Rarely is the question asked:
"How does accomplished people reach the optimal psychological
state?" **

To improve in backgammon, an obvious plan is to play XG and flag
the significant errors. But where my approach would be non-standard
is that I would give the errors a psychological profile. For example,
"Somehow didn't consider the best move", "Played too quickly", "Felt
hopeless about the position", "Felt overconfident", "Wasn't acquainted with
the relevant theory", "Messed up the computations" etc. etc. This is at
least as important as tagging positions according to pure backgammon
criteria.

** This is a riff on the Bushism "Rarely is the question asked: Is our children
learning?" I didn't want to reference this explicitly, but I somehow doubt that
anyone would have got my joke if I didn't.

Paul

Re: Making progress through backgammon psychology

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Making progress through backgammon psychology
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 09:04:49 -0400
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 by: Timothy Chow - Mon, 2 May 2022 13:04 UTC

On 5/2/2022 6:51 AM, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
> To improve in backgammon, an obvious plan is to play XG and flag
> the significant errors. But where my approach would be non-standard
> is that I would give the errors a psychological profile. For example,
> "Somehow didn't consider the best move", "Played too quickly", "Felt
> hopeless about the position", "Felt overconfident", "Wasn't acquainted with
> the relevant theory", "Messed up the computations" etc. etc. This is at
> least as important as tagging positions according to pure backgammon
> criteria.

I agree with your approach, although I don't know that I would call it
non-standard. At least in chess, this sort of thing is standard fare
for coaches. But perhaps in backgammon, coaches aren't common even for
pros.

---
Tim Chow

Re: Making progress through backgammon psychology

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Subject: Re: Making progress through backgammon psychology
From: nasti.ch...@gmail.com (Nasti Chestikov)
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 by: Nasti Chestikov - Mon, 2 May 2022 15:03 UTC

Doesn't it depend on what your goal is?

If I'm playing XG or GnuDung, my goal is to win. If I achieve that goal, does it *really* matter if some of my moves are deemed sub-optimal?

I have to say I am difficulty coming to terms with the mindset that as long as you play close to perfect, it doesn't matter if you get thrashed 15-0.

Re: Making progress through backgammon psychology

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Subject: Re: Making progress through backgammon psychology
From: pepste...@gmail.com (peps...@gmail.com)
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 by: peps...@gmail.com - Mon, 2 May 2022 15:49 UTC

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 4:03:22 PM UTC+1, Nasti Chestikov wrote:
> Doesn't it depend on what your goal is?
>
> If I'm playing XG or GnuDung, my goal is to win. If I achieve that goal, does it *really* matter if some of my moves are deemed sub-optimal?
>
> I have to say I am difficulty coming to terms with the mindset that as long as you play close to perfect, it doesn't matter if you get thrashed 15-0.

I totally share the mindset that if you play close to perfectly, it doesn't matter if you get thrashed 15-0.
The goal of match backgammon isn't to win -- it's to maximise your probability of winning.
It's totally possible to lose 15-0 while maximising that probability.

Paul

Re: Making progress through backgammon psychology

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Subject: Re: Making progress through backgammon psychology
From: nasti.ch...@gmail.com (Nasti Chestikov)
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 by: Nasti Chestikov - Mon, 2 May 2022 16:35 UTC

On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 16:49:33 UTC+1, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 4:03:22 PM UTC+1, Nasti Chestikov wrote:
> > Doesn't it depend on what your goal is?
> >
> > If I'm playing XG or GnuDung, my goal is to win. If I achieve that goal, does it *really* matter if some of my moves are deemed sub-optimal?
> >
> > I have to say I am difficulty coming to terms with the mindset that as long as you play close to perfect, it doesn't matter if you get thrashed 15-0.
> I totally share the mindset that if you play close to perfectly, it doesn't matter if you get thrashed 15-0.
> The goal of match backgammon isn't to win -- it's to maximise your probability of winning.
> It's totally possible to lose 15-0 while maximising that probability.
>
> Paul

But isn't that counter-productive?

Oh dear, I've lost £50k tonight but the upside is.......I played perfectly.

The goal of any challenge etc is to win is it not?

Re: Making progress through backgammon psychology

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Subject: Re: Making progress through backgammon psychology
From: pepste...@gmail.com (peps...@gmail.com)
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 by: peps...@gmail.com - Mon, 2 May 2022 19:00 UTC

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 5:35:43 PM UTC+1, Nasti Chestikov wrote:
> On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 16:49:33 UTC+1, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 4:03:22 PM UTC+1, Nasti Chestikov wrote:
> > > Doesn't it depend on what your goal is?
> > >
> > > If I'm playing XG or GnuDung, my goal is to win. If I achieve that goal, does it *really* matter if some of my moves are deemed sub-optimal?
> > >
> > > I have to say I am difficulty coming to terms with the mindset that as long as you play close to perfect, it doesn't matter if you get thrashed 15-0.
> > I totally share the mindset that if you play close to perfectly, it doesn't matter if you get thrashed 15-0.
> > The goal of match backgammon isn't to win -- it's to maximise your probability of winning.
> > It's totally possible to lose 15-0 while maximising that probability.
> >
> > Paul
> But isn't that counter-productive?
>
> Oh dear, I've lost £50k tonight but the upside is.......I played perfectly.
>
> The goal of any challenge etc is to win is it not?

No, the goal of any challenge is to maximise your probability of winning.

Paul

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