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interests / rec.games.backgammon / Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accent

SubjectAuthor
* I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accentpeps...@gmail.com
+* Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accentTimothy Chow
|`- Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accentpeps...@gmail.com
`* Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accentStick Rice
 `* Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accentpeps...@gmail.com
  `* Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accentSimon Woodhead
   +* Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accentTimothy Chow
   |`- Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accentStick Rice
   `- Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accentpeps...@gmail.com

1
I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accent

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Subject: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accent
From: pepste...@gmail.com (peps...@gmail.com)
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 by: peps...@gmail.com - Mon, 16 May 2022 22:50 UTC

My double below seemed very Ohaganistic to me and I was
(wrongly) confident in it, although I was also sure of the take.
It's kind of a fairly even game but my shots are very powerful.
And there are 13 of them.
In what sense was I misapplying O'Hagan's rule?
I could just ask O'Hagan but I don't know his email address,
and he isn't a Facebook friend of mine or a linkedin contact.

Paul

XGID=-CcBBBC---------Aa-cbbbBb-:2:1:1:00:2:2:3:0:10
X:Daniel O:eXtremeGammon

Score is X:2 O:2. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O | | O O O O X O |
| | | O O O O X O |
| | | O |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | X O X | +---+
| | | X X X X O X | | 4 |
| | | X X X X O X | +---+
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 107 O: 121 X-O: 2-2
Cube: 4, X own cube
X on roll, cube action

Analyzed in XG Roller+
Player Winning Chances: 60.52% (G:21.68% B:0.81%)
Opponent Winning Chances: 39.48% (G:10.83% B:0.41%)

Cubeless Equities: No Double=+0.323, Double=+0.652

Cubeful Equities:
No redouble: +0.495
Redouble/Take: +0.379 (-0.116)
Redouble/Pass: +1.000 (+0.505)

Best Cube action: No redouble / Take
Percentage of wrong pass needed to make the double decision right: 15.7%

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10

Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accent

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accent
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 21:50:08 -0400
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 by: Timothy Chow - Tue, 17 May 2022 01:50 UTC

On 5/16/2022 6:50 PM, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
> My double below seemed very Ohaganistic to me and I was
> (wrongly) confident in it, although I was also sure of the take.
> It's kind of a fairly even game but my shots are very powerful.
> And there are 13 of them.
> In what sense was I misapplying O'Hagan's rule?

There are quite a few hit/enter sequences that allow O to take.

---
Tim Chow

Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accent

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Subject: Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accent
From: pepste...@gmail.com (peps...@gmail.com)
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 by: peps...@gmail.com - Tue, 17 May 2022 07:29 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 2:50:12 AM UTC+1, Tim Chow wrote:
> On 5/16/2022 6:50 PM, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
> > My double below seemed very Ohaganistic to me and I was
> > (wrongly) confident in it, although I was also sure of the take. Bu
> > It's kind of a fairly even game but my shots are very powerful.
> > And there are 13 of them.
> > In what sense was I misapplying O'Hagan's rule?
> There are quite a few hit/enter sequences that allow O to take.
>
> ---
> Tim Chow
But even hit/dance has > the 25% Ohaganistic threshold.
13/36 * 25/36 > 25% last time I checked.
Assuming that even hit/enter sometimes loses market, we get way over 25%.

Paul

Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accent

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Subject: Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accent
From: bananabo...@gmail.com (Stick Rice)
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 by: Stick Rice - Tue, 17 May 2022 10:10 UTC

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 6:50:14 PM UTC-4, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
> My double below seemed very Ohaganistic to me and I was
> (wrongly) confident in it, although I was also sure of the take.
> It's kind of a fairly even game but my shots are very powerful.
> And there are 13 of them.
> In what sense was I misapplying O'Hagan's rule?
> I could just ask O'Hagan but I don't know his email address,
> and he isn't a Facebook friend of mine or a linkedin contact.
>
> Paul
>
> XGID=-CcBBBC---------Aa-cbbbBb-:2:1:1:00:2:2:3:0:10
> X:Daniel O:eXtremeGammon
>
>
> Score is X:2 O:2. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | X O | | O O O O X O |
> | | | O O O O X O |
> | | | O |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | |BAR| |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | | | X O X | +---+
> | | | X X X X O X | | 4 |
> | | | X X X X O X | +---+
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count X: 107 O: 121 X-O: 2-2
> Cube: 4, X own cube
> X on roll, cube action
>
> Analyzed in XG Roller+
> Player Winning Chances: 60.52% (G:21.68% B:0.81%)
> Opponent Winning Chances: 39.48% (G:10.83% B:0.41%)
>
> Cubeless Equities: No Double=+0.323, Double=+0.652
>
> Cubeful Equities:
> No redouble: +0.495
> Redouble/Take: +0.379 (-0.116)
> Redouble/Pass: +1.000 (+0.505)
>
> Best Cube action: No redouble / Take
> Percentage of wrong pass needed to make the double decision right: 15.7%
>
> eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10

The easiest thing is O'Hagan's Law is meant for a centered cube, not a recube. While I have stated before the rough number of MLS we need for a recube, I don't know if you know that. (and I assume you don't given your follow up post to Tim's response) You also need to keep market crashers in the back of your mind, like [44] in this position for eg.

Stick

Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accent

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Subject: Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accent
From: pepste...@gmail.com (peps...@gmail.com)
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 by: peps...@gmail.com - Tue, 17 May 2022 13:04 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 11:10:42 AM UTC+1, Stick Rice wrote:
> On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 6:50:14 PM UTC-4, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
> > My double below seemed very Ohaganistic to me and I was
> > (wrongly) confident in it, although I was also sure of the take.
> > It's kind of a fairly even game but my shots are very powerful.
> > And there are 13 of them.
> > In what sense was I misapplying O'Hagan's rule?
> > I could just ask O'Hagan but I don't know his email address,
> > and he isn't a Facebook friend of mine or a linkedin contact.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > XGID=-CcBBBC---------Aa-cbbbBb-:2:1:1:00:2:2:3:0:10
> > X:Daniel O:eXtremeGammon
> >
> >
> > Score is X:2 O:2. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
> > +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> > | X O | | O O O O X O |
> > | | | O O O O X O |
> > | | | O |
> > | | | |
> > | | | |
> > | |BAR| |
> > | | | |
> > | | | |
> > | | | X O X | +---+
> > | | | X X X X O X | | 4 |
> > | | | X X X X O X | +---+
> > +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> > Pip count X: 107 O: 121 X-O: 2-2
> > Cube: 4, X own cube
> > X on roll, cube action
> >
> > Analyzed in XG Roller+
> > Player Winning Chances: 60.52% (G:21.68% B:0.81%)
> > Opponent Winning Chances: 39.48% (G:10.83% B:0.41%)
> >
> > Cubeless Equities: No Double=+0.323, Double=+0.652
> >
> > Cubeful Equities:
> > No redouble: +0.495
> > Redouble/Take: +0.379 (-0.116)
> > Redouble/Pass: +1.000 (+0.505)
> >
> > Best Cube action: No redouble / Take
> > Percentage of wrong pass needed to make the double decision right: 15.7%
> >
> > eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10
> The easiest thing is O'Hagan's Law is meant for a centered cube, not a recube. While I have stated before the rough number of MLS we need for a recube, I don't know if you know that. (and I assume you don't given your follow up post to Tim's response) You also need to keep market crashers in the back of your mind, like [44] in this position for eg.

No, I don't know the number of MLS for a recube. Hopefully, Tim will tell me.
Is the above position an initial cube? (For some reason, I have never found a way to set up positions with XG.
When I post positions, they are always positions from my games, rather than variantizations.)

Paul

Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accent

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From: sim...@bglog.org (Simon Woodhead)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accent
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 08:58:51 +1000
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 by: Simon Woodhead - Tue, 17 May 2022 22:58 UTC

On 17/05/2022 11:04 pm, peps...@gmail.com wrote:

For some reason, I have never found a way to set up positions with XG.

When you load xg, the first splash screen includes "Set up a position".
Try clicking on that, it just might do what it says.

Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accent

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accent
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 19:03:42 -0400
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 by: Timothy Chow - Tue, 17 May 2022 23:03 UTC

On 5/17/2022 6:58 PM, Simon Woodhead wrote:
> On 17/05/2022 11:04 pm, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> For some reason, I have never found a way to set up positions with XG.
>
> When you load xg, the first splash screen includes "Set up a position".
> Try clicking on that, it just might do what it says.

Also, File -> New -> Setup position

---
Tim Chow

Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accent

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Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 01:47:12 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accent
From: bananabo...@gmail.com (Stick Rice)
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 by: Stick Rice - Wed, 18 May 2022 08:47 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 7:03:53 PM UTC-4, Tim Chow wrote:
> On 5/17/2022 6:58 PM, Simon Woodhead wrote:
> > On 17/05/2022 11:04 pm, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > For some reason, I have never found a way to set up positions with XG.
> >
> > When you load xg, the first splash screen includes "Set up a position".
> > Try clicking on that, it just might do what it says.
> Also, File -> New -> Setup position
>
> ---
> Tim Chow

Also Ctrl + J or even Ctrl + V depending where you want to take it from. And yes, the original position is an initial cube.

Stick

Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accent

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https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=8933&group=rec.games.backgammon#8933

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Subject: Re: I couldn't understand O'Hagan's accent
From: pepste...@gmail.com (peps...@gmail.com)
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 by: peps...@gmail.com - Wed, 18 May 2022 19:57 UTC

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 11:58:57 PM UTC+1, Simon Woodhead wrote:
> On 17/05/2022 11:04 pm, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> For some reason, I have never found a way to set up positions with XG.
> When you load xg, the first splash screen includes "Set up a position".
> Try clicking on that, it just might do what it says.

I think I got that far. However actually placing the checkers where I wanted them
proved too difficult for me.

Paul

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