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interests / rec.games.backgammon / Re: Does Isight help here?

SubjectAuthor
* Does Isight help here?Timothy Chow
+- Re: Does Isight help here?Axel Reichert
+- Rollout: Does Isight help here?Timothy Chow
`- Re: Does Isight help here?ah....Clem

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Does Isight help here?

<tb2mji$4mfq$1@dont-email.me>

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Does Isight help here?
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 00:12:32 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Timothy Chow - Mon, 18 Jul 2022 04:12 UTC

XGID=--A-CDA------------aaadbc-:0:0:1:43:0:0:0:0:10

X:Player 1 O:Player 2
Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| | | O O O O O O |
| | | O O O |
| | | O O |
| | | O |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | X |
| | | X X |
| | | X X |
| | | X X X X |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 40 O: 34 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 43

---
Tim Chow

Re: Does Isight help here?

<87v8rvj7n9.fsf@axel-reichert.de>

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From: mai...@axel-reichert.de (Axel Reichert)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Does Isight help here?
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:45:46 +0200
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 by: Axel Reichert - Mon, 18 Jul 2022 05:45 UTC

Timothy Chow <tchow12000@yahoo.com> writes:

> XGID=--A-CDA------------aaadbc-:0:0:1:43:0:0:0:0:10
>
> X:Player 1 O:Player 2
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | | | O O O O O O |
> | | | O O O |
> | | | O O |
> | | | O |
> | | | |
> | |BAR| |
> | | | |
> | | | X |
> | | | X X |
> | | | X X |
> | | | X X X X |
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count X: 40 O: 34 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 1
> X to play 43

| Moves | Adjustments |
|-----------+---------------------------|
| 5/2 4/off | None |
| 6/3 4/off | Vacated 6 |
| 4/1 4/off | None |
| 6/3 5/1 | Additional man, vacated 6 |
| 5/2 5/1 | Additional man |
| 5/1 4/1 | Additional man |
| 6/2 4/1 | Additional man, vacated 6 |
| 6/2 5/2 | Additional man, vacated 6 |

So regarding Isight adjustments we have no way to decide between 5/2
4/off and 4/1 4/off. The heuristic "maximize the from/to stack
difference" advocates for the former (after the "mandatory" 4/off),
the heuristic "fill the highest gap" advocates for the latter.

My gut feeling prefers the former heuristic, but I do not have hard
numbers to back this up. I was surprised by the equity difference, so
maybe I should do a more systematic study.

Best regards

Axel

Rollout: Does Isight help here?

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From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Rollout: Does Isight help here?
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 09:34:39 -0400
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 by: Timothy Chow - Tue, 19 Jul 2022 13:34 UTC

XGID=--A-CDA------------aaadbc-:0:0:1:43:0:0:0:0:10

X:Player 1 O:Player 2
Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| | | O O O O O O |
| | | O O O |
| | | O O |
| | | O |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | X |
| | | X X |
| | | X X |
| | | X X X X |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 40 O: 34 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 43

Some conflicting heuristics are at work here. If you have a checker
on the 6pt and a gap on the 3pt, then normally, 6/3 is an efficient
way to play a 3. But another heuristic is that tall stacks are bad,
so you should unstack the 5pt. Evidently, unstacking the 5pt is
the right play here.

1. Rollout¹ 5/2 4/Off eq:+0.420
Player: 62.94% (G:0.00% B:0.00%)
Opponent: 37.06% (G:0.00% B:0.00%)
Confidence: ±0.001 (+0.418..+0.421) - [100.0%]

2. Rollout¹ 6/3 4/Off eq:+0.387 (-0.033)
Player: 62.36% (G:0.00% B:0.00%)
Opponent: 37.64% (G:0.00% B:0.00%)
Confidence: ±0.001 (+0.385..+0.388) - [0.0%]

3. Rollout¹ 4/1 4/Off eq:+0.368 (-0.052)
Player: 61.68% (G:0.00% B:0.00%)
Opponent: 38.32% (G:0.00% B:0.00%)
Confidence: ±0.001 (+0.366..+0.369) - [0.0%]

¹ 5184 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves and cube decisions: XG Roller+
Search interval: Gigantic

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.207.pre-release

---
Tim Chow

Re: Does Isight help here?

<tb92gs$1lop6$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ah_c...@ymail.com (ah....Clem)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Does Isight help here?
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 10:12:43 -0400
Organization: The Future Fair
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In-Reply-To: <tb2mji$4mfq$1@dont-email.me>
 by: ah....Clem - Wed, 20 Jul 2022 14:12 UTC

On 7/18/2022 12:12 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
> XGID=--A-CDA------------aaadbc-:0:0:1:43:0:0:0:0:10
>
> X:Player 1   O:Player 2
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
>  +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
>  |                  |   | O  O  O  O  O  O |
>  |                  |   |          O  O  O |
>  |                  |   |          O     O |
>  |                  |   |          O       |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |BAR|                  |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |   |    X             |
>  |                  |   |    X  X          |
>  |                  |   |    X  X          |
>  |                  |   | X  X  X     X    |
>  +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count  X: 40  O: 34 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 1
> X to play 43

Clearing the six point will result in a one pip "penalty" for the
adjusted pipcount, so maybe. But O will be clearing one of the high
points, so it probably doesn't matter. I'd play 6/3 4/off.

--
Ah....Clem
The future is fun, the future is fair.

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