Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

Never commit yourself! Let someone else commit you.


interests / rec.games.backgammon / Action double

SubjectAuthor
* Action doubleTimothy Chow
+- Re: Action doublepeps...@gmail.com
+- Re: Action doubleah....Clem
`- Rollout: Action doubleTimothy Chow

1
Action double

<tbji0s$klp2$2@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9284&group=rec.games.backgammon#9284

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Action double
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 09:38:37 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <tbji0s$klp2$2@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 13:38:36 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="8e610b0671f82e8a5be418fe6a501013";
logging-data="677666"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/8n732w+wjQp+81oMw0/ZZ15AWq+04/vI="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.11.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:Wf5yS85XxhAla9KBkU/FME1A1/0=
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Timothy Chow - Sun, 24 Jul 2022 13:38 UTC

XGID=-aBB-BCB-a-AbB---bAbe-b---:0:0:1:00:0:0:0:0:10

X:Player 1 O:Player 2
Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O X | | O O O |
| X O | | O O O |
| | | O |
| | | O |
| | | O |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | X |
| O X | | X X X X |
| O X O X | | X X X X O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 107 O: 125 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X on roll, cube action

---
Tim Chow

Re: Action double

<47ed4db3-f216-4443-b38c-4187630c8396n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9287&group=rec.games.backgammon#9287

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:2909:b0:6b6:a94:a988 with SMTP id m9-20020a05620a290900b006b60a94a988mr7307754qkp.350.1658691592966;
Sun, 24 Jul 2022 12:39:52 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:c10e:b0:10d:9e83:57bb with SMTP id
f14-20020a056870c10e00b0010d9e8357bbmr8158177oad.177.1658691592755; Sun, 24
Jul 2022 12:39:52 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 12:39:52 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <tbji0s$klp2$2@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=217.155.59.144; posting-account=X1j9wgoAAADLt4UnZrIneT3jwl9HvLMd
NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.155.59.144
References: <tbji0s$klp2$2@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <47ed4db3-f216-4443-b38c-4187630c8396n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Action double
From: pepste...@gmail.com (peps...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 19:39:52 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 2863
 by: peps...@gmail.com - Sun, 24 Jul 2022 19:39 UTC

On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 2:38:38 PM UTC+1, Tim Chow wrote:
> XGID=-aBB-BCB-a-AbB---bAbe-b---:0:0:1:00:0:0:0:0:10
>
> X:Player 1 O:Player 2
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | X O X | | O O O |
> | X O | | O O O |
> | | | O |
> | | | O |
> | | | O |
> | |BAR| |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | | | X |
> | O X | | X X X X |
> | O X O X | | X X X X O |
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count X: 107 O: 125 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 1
> X on roll, cube action

Big pass.
I don't think it's TG though (assuming non-Jacoby).
I don't think it's an "action double" because an action double means (to me)
that:
1) You have a threat that you're an underdog to make.
2) Your opponent is doing fine if you miss the threat.
3) You double anyway because the threat is somewhat (though less than 50%) likely to happen,
and you hugely lose your market if so.

Here, we're favourites to hit and, even if we don't hit, we're big favourites anyway.

It seems clear that the opponent has enough play that we're not TG.
If we miss the shot, the opponent has a huge ask to overcome the race deficit and get past
our strong broken prime.
The stack on the 5 point is horrible for the opponent, giving huge containment difficulties
for the opponent if we do get hit.

I think taking would be something like a 0.3 blunder.
Let's see what the hitting probability (for the blot on our 9 point) is:
4 or 2 gives 5/9.
A combo 2 adds 1/36.
A combo 4 adds 31 which is 1/18.
Now, we need to consider nines.
33 doesn't work.
54 has already been counted.
So we only get 63 for another 1/18.

So our hitting probability is 25/36.
But pointing on the ace point blot is pretty devastating too.

Paul

Re: Action double

<tbkc8f$r01f$1@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9291&group=rec.games.backgammon#9291

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ah_c...@ymail.com (ah....Clem)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Action double
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 17:06:24 -0400
Organization: The Future Fair
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <tbkc8f$r01f$1@dont-email.me>
References: <tbji0s$klp2$2@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 21:06:23 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="782901e3e4495e8b6c9e60464ca3f324";
logging-data="884783"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+cIDyMGkjcVd7Wtylebwz4"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.11.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:gemzAoIVXFM+vJ6zVjV2jLnNX+4=
In-Reply-To: <tbji0s$klp2$2@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: ah....Clem - Sun, 24 Jul 2022 21:06 UTC

On 7/24/2022 9:38 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
> XGID=-aBB-BCB-a-AbB---bAbe-b---:0:0:1:00:0:0:0:0:10
>
> X:Player 1   O:Player 2
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
>  +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
>  | X           O  X |   | O  O     O       |
>  | X           O    |   | O  O     O       |
>  |                  |   |    O             |
>  |                  |   |    O             |
>  |                  |   |    O             |
>  |                  |BAR|                  |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |   | X                |
>  | O              X |   | X  X     X  X    |
>  | O  X     O     X |   | X  X     X  X  O |
>  +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count  X: 107  O: 125 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 1
> X on roll, cube action

Most hits are market losers and I'm not seeing many bad sequences, so
O'Hagen's law would say ship it.

X has the better position and a lead in the race for 2 of 3 PRAT, which
implies D/T. But the fact that X is on roll means the threats are in
his favor, so maybe it's a pass, or even TG.

OTB, I'd probably take a shake and see what happens. It seems to flip
to TG fairly often. But thinking about it some more, if I'm not sure if
it's a pass or not it must be a cube, or at least a practical one
against humans since some will get the take decision wrong.

I'll say D/P.

--
Ah....Clem
The future is fun, the future is fair.

Rollout: Action double

<tbono8$1vd7p$1@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9308&group=rec.games.backgammon#9308

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Rollout: Action double
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2022 08:47:04 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <tbono8$1vd7p$1@dont-email.me>
References: <tbji0s$klp2$2@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2022 12:47:05 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="860ffe194b7360cf9cc3dcfc6b9ea44e";
logging-data="2077945"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18HYwEjf5pVkbIp+SulzBWH6pAOe8B7i8o="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.11.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:e6syCqqHLPNEPTQGa+L10YSCY4s=
In-Reply-To: <tbji0s$klp2$2@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Timothy Chow - Tue, 26 Jul 2022 12:47 UTC

XGID=-aBB-BCB-a-AbB---bAbe-b---:0:0:1:00:0:0:0:0:10

X:Player 1 O:Player 2
Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O X | | O O O |
| X O | | O O O |
| | | O |
| | | O |
| | | O |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | X |
| O X | | X X X X |
| O X O X | | X X X X O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 107 O: 125 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X on roll, cube action

XG says this one is clearly too good. I often fail to consider that
I might be TG when my opponent is not on the bar.

Analyzed in Rollout
No double
Player Winning Chances: 79.64% (G:37.89% B:0.97%)
Opponent Winning Chances: 20.36% (G:4.54% B:0.31%)
Double/Take
Player Winning Chances: 79.80% (G:38.70% B:0.79%)
Opponent Winning Chances: 20.20% (G:5.12% B:0.47%)

Cubeful Equities:
No double: +1.080
Double/Take: +1.730 (+0.650)
Double/Pass: +1.000 (-0.080)

Best Cube action: Too good to double / Pass
Percentage of wrong take needed to make the double decision right: 11.0%

Rollout:
1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller
Confidence No Double: ± 0.009 (+1.071..+1.089)
Confidence Double: ± 0.012 (+1.718..+1.742)

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.207.pre-release

---
Tim Chow

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.8
clearnet tor