Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

Is that really YOU that is reading this?

interests / rec.games.backgammon / 4-away/4-away cube action

SubjectAuthor
* 4-away/4-away cube actionTimothy Chow
+* Re: 4-away/4-away cube actionah...Clem
|+* Re: 4-away/4-away cube actionatila...@gmail.com
||`- Re: 4-away/4-away cube actionTimothy Chow
|`- Re: 4-away/4-away cube actionStick Rice
`- Rollout: 4-away/4-away cube actionTimothy Chow

1
4-away/4-away cube action

<tbu0gp$32ter$2@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9324&group=rec.games.backgammon#9324

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: 4-away/4-away cube action
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 08:47:18 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <tbu0gp$32ter$2@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 12:47:21 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="149a58e84f8bc42c149711c626ae16d8";
logging-data="3241435"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1915+hSCocOxKYSut5Ie/6WwzKkWw8Gyx0="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.11.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:4MrJN2F2ktBQmzzq+zJn8yDep+Y=
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Timothy Chow - Thu, 28 Jul 2022 12:47 UTC

XGID=aB-BaBB--AA-dC---b-cb-b-B-:0:0:1:00:3:3:0:7:10

X:Player 1 O:Player 2
Score is X:3 O:3 7 pt.(s) match.
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O | | O O O X |
| X O | | O O O X |
| X | | O |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | O | |
| O | | |
| O | | |
| O | | X X X X |
| O X X | | X X O X X |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 136 O: 148 X-O: 3-3/7
Cube: 1
X on roll, cube action

---
Tim Chow

Re: 4-away/4-away cube action

<tbuu38$38q8r$1@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9326&group=rec.games.backgammon#9326

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!rocksolid2!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ah_c...@ymail.com (ah...Clem)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: 4-away/4-away cube action
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 17:12:04 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <tbuu38$38q8r$1@dont-email.me>
References: <tbu0gp$32ter$2@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 21:12:08 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="cf04a638eab0359d83eda63194368cdc";
logging-data="3434779"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18Yc0ONxmKSxkls8abY+m8/"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.3.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:s/iSi0ZFQiVS3wOFNzw8D3QsTsc=
In-Reply-To: <tbu0gp$32ter$2@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: ah...Clem - Thu, 28 Jul 2022 21:12 UTC

On 7/28/2022 8:47 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
> XGID=aB-BaBB--AA-dC---b-cb-b-B-:0:0:1:00:3:3:0:7:10
>
> X:Player 1   O:Player 2
> Score is X:3 O:3 7 pt.(s) match.
>  +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
>  | X           O    |   | O  O     O     X |
>  | X           O    |   | O  O     O     X |
>  | X                |   | O                |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |BAR|                  |
>  |                  | O |                  |
>  | O                |   |                  |
>  | O                |   |                  |
>  | O                |   | X  X     X     X |
>  | O     X  X       |   | X  X  O  X     X |
>  +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count  X: 136  O: 148 X-O: 3-3/7
> Cube: 1
> X on roll, cube action
>

This is a fairly "normal" score. The take point is deeper due to the
recube vig but the price of gammon is higher since a doubled gammon wins
the match.

5s and 6s are usually market losers as is 11 and 22. Has X lost the
market already? Very possibly. I'd ship it since the take is unclear
and it gives a human opponent a chance to make an error.

X owns both ace points, which is usually enough of a liability that I'll
say take.

D/T.

Re: 4-away/4-away cube action

<ec259550-dfb3-4dc9-973a-561a89bb7d5en@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9331&group=rec.games.backgammon#9331

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5c91:0:b0:31f:2385:3633 with SMTP id r17-20020ac85c91000000b0031f23853633mr2280602qta.674.1659080348085;
Fri, 29 Jul 2022 00:39:08 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:2391:b0:33a:c601:979b with SMTP id
bp17-20020a056808239100b0033ac601979bmr1116576oib.26.1659080347816; Fri, 29
Jul 2022 00:39:07 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 00:39:07 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <tbuu38$38q8r$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=31.145.85.2; posting-account=kz2mAAoAAAB3fyZCHcqlHhWEK2kCBGH2
NNTP-Posting-Host: 31.145.85.2
References: <tbu0gp$32ter$2@dont-email.me> <tbuu38$38q8r$1@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <ec259550-dfb3-4dc9-973a-561a89bb7d5en@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: 4-away/4-away cube action
From: atilamal...@gmail.com (atila...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 07:39:08 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Received-Bytes: 3064
 by: atila...@gmail.com - Fri, 29 Jul 2022 07:39 UTC

29 Temmuz 2022 Cuma tarihinde saat 00:12:10 UTC+3 itibarıyla ah...Clem şunları yazdı:
> On 7/28/2022 8:47 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
> > XGID=aB-BaBB--AA-dC---b-cb-b-B-:0:0:1:00:3:3:0:7:10
> >
> > X:Player 1 O:Player 2
> > Score is X:3 O:3 7 pt.(s) match.
> > +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> > | X O | | O O O X |
> > | X O | | O O O X |
> > | X | | O |
> > | | | |
> > | | | |
> > | |BAR| |
> > | | O | |
> > | O | | |
> > | O | | |
> > | O | | X X X X |
> > | O X X | | X X O X X |
> > +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> > Pip count X: 136 O: 148 X-O: 3-3/7
> > Cube: 1
> > X on roll, cube action
> >
> This is a fairly "normal" score. The take point is deeper due to the
> recube vig but the price of gammon is higher since a doubled gammon wins
> the match.
>
> 5s and 6s are usually market losers as is 11 and 22. Has X lost the
> market already? Very possibly. I'd ship it since the take is unclear
> and it gives a human opponent a chance to make an error.
>
> X owns both ace points, which is usually enough of a liability that I'll
> say take.
>
>
> D/T.
We'll enter from the bar against a 4-point board. Moreover, the opponent will most likely send the second checker to the bar. I'll never take it.
I have tested such positions a lot. To accept the cube, the opponent must have 9 or less men in the attacking zone.
Of course I would turn the cube.

Re: 4-away/4-away cube action

<tc0ib1$3g94t$2@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9333&group=rec.games.backgammon#9333

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: 4-away/4-away cube action
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 08:03:43 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <tc0ib1$3g94t$2@dont-email.me>
References: <tbu0gp$32ter$2@dont-email.me> <tbuu38$38q8r$1@dont-email.me>
<ec259550-dfb3-4dc9-973a-561a89bb7d5en@googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 12:03:45 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="a35c44686bea10e4ad2654824e233143";
logging-data="3679389"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+MvSaMEc6xUDd5WceiMVlHWtkNZ/GlYT4="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.11.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:7/ggDTXM2u7gyz8qhbqmcoyPxU0=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <ec259550-dfb3-4dc9-973a-561a89bb7d5en@googlegroups.com>
 by: Timothy Chow - Fri, 29 Jul 2022 12:03 UTC

On 7/29/2022 3:39 AM, atila...@gmail.com wrote:
> We'll enter from the bar against a 4-point board. Moreover, the opponent will most likely send the second checker to the bar. I'll never take it.
> I have tested such positions a lot. To accept the cube, the opponent must have 9 or less men in the attacking zone.

Is this rule of thumb specifically for the 4-away/4-away score?

---
Tim Chow

Rollout: 4-away/4-away cube action

<tc3a4q$3s02n$1@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9341&group=rec.games.backgammon#9341

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Rollout: 4-away/4-away cube action
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 09:02:15 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <tc3a4q$3s02n$1@dont-email.me>
References: <tbu0gp$32ter$2@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 13:02:18 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="8c948c87617de0b1c6f6821a9b21036f";
logging-data="4063319"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+whWWD2XUmmfy5vco4mtxvo2fXJ5LnwxY="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.11.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:dZGJlswLY4pP3baq9IOSJ23WdVA=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <tbu0gp$32ter$2@dont-email.me>
 by: Timothy Chow - Sat, 30 Jul 2022 13:02 UTC

XGID=aB-BaBB--AA-dC---b-cb-b-B-:0:0:1:00:3:3:0:7:10

X:Player 1 O:Player 2
Score is X:3 O:3 7 pt.(s) match.
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O | | O O O X |
| X O | | O O O X |
| X | | O |
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | O | |
| O | | |
| O | | |
| O | | X X X X |
| O X X | | X X O X X |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 136 O: 148 X-O: 3-3/7
Cube: 1
X on roll, cube action

This is a trivial take for money, but this ain't money. Again,
one of the main reasons I'm posting this is because XG 3-ply took
my double here. But the rollout below says that taking is a
double whopper with cheese at this score.

Analyzed in Rollout
No double
Player Winning Chances: 60.14% (G:39.00% B:0.78%)
Opponent Winning Chances: 39.86% (G:12.86% B:1.42%)
Double/Take
Player Winning Chances: 60.43% (G:40.50% B:1.16%)
Opponent Winning Chances: 39.57% (G:13.30% B:2.64%)

Cubeful Equities:
No double: +0.640 (-0.360)
Double/Take: +1.267 (+0.267)
Double/Pass: +1.000

Best Cube action: Double / Pass

Rollout:
1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller
Confidence No Double: ± 0.018 (+0.622..+0.657)
Confidence Double: ± 0.029 (+1.238..+1.295)

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.207.pre-release, MET: Kazaross XG2

---
Tim Chow

Re: 4-away/4-away cube action

<70b9d246-53a8-46d9-b400-8eb8c58aa195n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9380&group=rec.games.backgammon#9380

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
X-Received: by 2002:a37:43d4:0:b0:6b8:e3ba:ddfc with SMTP id q203-20020a3743d4000000b006b8e3baddfcmr2424394qka.192.1659637594071;
Thu, 04 Aug 2022 11:26:34 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a9d:73d0:0:b0:61c:8d31:6981 with SMTP id
m16-20020a9d73d0000000b0061c8d316981mr1221713otk.99.1659637593796; Thu, 04
Aug 2022 11:26:33 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 11:26:33 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <tbuu38$38q8r$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=71.222.45.238; posting-account=yTK5ugoAAACRs3TgAz02kMublhPpKQBJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.222.45.238
References: <tbu0gp$32ter$2@dont-email.me> <tbuu38$38q8r$1@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <70b9d246-53a8-46d9-b400-8eb8c58aa195n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: 4-away/4-away cube action
From: bananabo...@gmail.com (Stick Rice)
Injection-Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2022 18:26:34 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 2655
 by: Stick Rice - Thu, 4 Aug 2022 18:26 UTC

On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 5:12:10 PM UTC-4, ah...Clem wrote:
> On 7/28/2022 8:47 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
> > XGID=aB-BaBB--AA-dC---b-cb-b-B-:0:0:1:00:3:3:0:7:10
> >
> > X:Player 1 O:Player 2
> > Score is X:3 O:3 7 pt.(s) match.
> > +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> > | X O | | O O O X |
> > | X O | | O O O X |
> > | X | | O |
> > | | | |
> > | | | |
> > | |BAR| |
> > | | O | |
> > | O | | |
> > | O | | |
> > | O | | X X X X |
> > | O X X | | X X O X X |
> > +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> > Pip count X: 136 O: 148 X-O: 3-3/7
> > Cube: 1
> > X on roll, cube action
> >
> This is a fairly "normal" score. The take point is deeper due to the
> recube vig but the price of gammon is higher since a doubled gammon wins
> the match.
>
> 5s and 6s are usually market losers as is 11 and 22. Has X lost the
> market already? Very possibly. I'd ship it since the take is unclear
> and it gives a human opponent a chance to make an error.
>
> X owns both ace points, which is usually enough of a liability that I'll
> say take.
>
>
> D/T.

This is far removed from resembling a normal score.

Stick

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.8
clearnet tor