Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

If opportunity came disguised as temptation, one knock would be enough.

interests / rec.games.backgammon / Tuition time

SubjectAuthor
* Tuition timepeps...@gmail.com
`* Re: Tuition timeTimothy Chow
 +- Re: Tuition timepeps...@gmail.com
 `- Re: Tuition timeStick Rice

1
Tuition time

<c1a44c24-ff87-4c6d-9d3e-42cd6819c700n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9451&group=rec.games.backgammon#9451

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:400e:b0:6ba:fcb6:3641 with SMTP id h14-20020a05620a400e00b006bafcb63641mr4242461qko.375.1660502656869;
Sun, 14 Aug 2022 11:44:16 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:61c3:b0:616:d785:6e58 with SMTP id
cc3-20020a05683061c300b00616d7856e58mr4654883otb.59.1660502656418; Sun, 14
Aug 2022 11:44:16 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2022 11:44:16 -0700 (PDT)
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=217.155.59.144; posting-account=X1j9wgoAAADLt4UnZrIneT3jwl9HvLMd
NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.155.59.144
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <c1a44c24-ff87-4c6d-9d3e-42cd6819c700n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Tuition time
From: pepste...@gmail.com (peps...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2022 18:44:16 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Lines: 53
 by: peps...@gmail.com - Sun, 14 Aug 2022 18:44 UTC

Below, I played 13/7(2).
Why is the difference between XG's play and my play like the difference
between freshly squeezed orange juice and the syrupy orange-flavoured
squash that I had to make do with as a child?

Thanks for enlightening me.

Paul

XGID=-ADAb-C-B-B-aB----bbbcba--:1:-1:1:33:0:1:3:0:10
X:Daniel O:eXtremeGammon

Score is X:0 O:1. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O | | O O O O O | +---+
| X O | | O O O O | | 2 |
| | | O | +---+
| | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| | | X |
| | | X X |
| X X | | X O X |
| O X X | | X O X X X |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 92 O: 111 X-O: 0-1
Cube: 2, O own cube
X to play 33

1. XG Roller+ 13/10(2) 8/5(2) eq:+0.402
Player: 73.56% (G:2.96% B:0.03%)
Opponent: 26.44% (G:2.33% B:0.06%)

2. XG Roller+ 13/7(2) eq:+0.249 (-0.152)
Player: 67.17% (G:1.71% B:0.02%)
Opponent: 32.83% (G:2.65% B:0.05%)

3. 3-ply 10/7(2) 8/5(2) eq:+0.267 (-0.134)
Player: 68.32% (G:4.25% B:0.03%)
Opponent: 31.68% (G:2.97% B:0.06%)

4. 1-ply 13/10 8/5(2) 6/3 eq:-0.213 (-0.615)
Player: 50.26% (G:4.14% B:0.06%)
Opponent: 49.74% (G:8.20% B:0.28%)

5. 1-ply 8/2(2) eq:-0.258 (-0.659)
Player: 50.21% (G:1.88% B:0.02%)
Opponent: 49.79% (G:10.32% B:0.21%)

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.10

Re: Tuition time

<tdbm74$38me9$1@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9454&group=rec.games.backgammon#9454

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Tuition time
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2022 16:33:37 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <tdbm74$38me9$1@dont-email.me>
References: <c1a44c24-ff87-4c6d-9d3e-42cd6819c700n@googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2022 20:33:40 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="a5e1dceb0001677f1f0c11b0ac52e902";
logging-data="3430857"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+90hdcYNzXfoA9JdzNfnkDgjnzbQ4ayMY="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.12.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:HP3wu3qSVu2HZV658XdnSZXDjXU=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <c1a44c24-ff87-4c6d-9d3e-42cd6819c700n@googlegroups.com>
 by: Timothy Chow - Sun, 14 Aug 2022 20:33 UTC

On 8/14/2022 2:44 PM, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
> XGID=-ADAb-C-B-B-aB----bbbcba--:1:-1:1:33:0:1:3:0:10
> X:Daniel O:eXtremeGammon
>
> Score is X:0 O:1. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | X O | | O O O O O | +---+
> | X O | | O O O O | | 2 |
> | | | O | +---+
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | |BAR| |
> | | | |
> | | | X |
> | | | X X |
> | X X | | X O X |
> | O X X | | X O X X X |
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count X: 92 O: 111 X-O: 0-1
> Cube: 2, O own cube
> X to play 33
>
>
>
> 1. XG Roller+ 13/10(2) 8/5(2) eq:+0.402
> Player: 73.56% (G:2.96% B:0.03%)
> Opponent: 26.44% (G:2.33% B:0.06%)
>
> 2. XG Roller+ 13/7(2) eq:+0.249 (-0.152)
> Player: 67.17% (G:1.71% B:0.02%)
> Opponent: 32.83% (G:2.65% B:0.05%)

In Michy's article, "I Mourn for Falafel," he talks about the "island"
concept, where all your outfield points are stripped.

http://www.world-backgammon-association.com/attachments/article/131/I-Mourn-for-Falafel.pdf

If you play 13/7(2) then you retain the inflexible "island" formation.
If you play 13/10(2) 8/5(2), then you create useful spares on your 10pt.
You might worry that it will be hard to clear the 10pt safely, and that
is indeed a concern; however, by the time you have to break the 10pt,
your opponent may have already been forced to break anchor, or you may
have had a chance to roll doublets again.

---
Tim Chow

Re: Tuition time

<ce65bb8f-b403-4cf4-8060-2e172fc76637n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9458&group=rec.games.backgammon#9458

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:c7:b0:343:2e72:8416 with SMTP id p7-20020a05622a00c700b003432e728416mr16122430qtw.92.1660603667293;
Mon, 15 Aug 2022 15:47:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:c0ca:b0:118:8dc9:90f9 with SMTP id
e10-20020a056870c0ca00b001188dc990f9mr5594963oad.161.1660603666972; Mon, 15
Aug 2022 15:47:46 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 15:47:46 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <tdbm74$38me9$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=217.155.59.144; posting-account=X1j9wgoAAADLt4UnZrIneT3jwl9HvLMd
NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.155.59.144
References: <c1a44c24-ff87-4c6d-9d3e-42cd6819c700n@googlegroups.com> <tdbm74$38me9$1@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <ce65bb8f-b403-4cf4-8060-2e172fc76637n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Tuition time
From: pepste...@gmail.com (peps...@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 22:47:47 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 3246
 by: peps...@gmail.com - Mon, 15 Aug 2022 22:47 UTC

On Sunday, August 14, 2022 at 9:33:42 PM UTC+1, Tim Chow wrote:
> On 8/14/2022 2:44 PM, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
> > XGID=-ADAb-C-B-B-aB----bbbcba--:1:-1:1:33:0:1:3:0:10
> > X:Daniel O:eXtremeGammon
> >
> > Score is X:0 O:1. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
> > +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> > | X O | | O O O O O | +---+
> > | X O | | O O O O | | 2 |
> > | | | O | +---+
> > | | | |
> > | | | |
> > | |BAR| |
> > | | | |
> > | | | X |
> > | | | X X |
> > | X X | | X O X |
> > | O X X | | X O X X X |
> > +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> > Pip count X: 92 O: 111 X-O: 0-1
> > Cube: 2, O own cube
> > X to play 33
> >
> >
> >
> > 1. XG Roller+ 13/10(2) 8/5(2) eq:+0.402
> > Player: 73.56% (G:2.96% B:0.03%)
> > Opponent: 26.44% (G:2.33% B:0.06%)
> >
> > 2. XG Roller+ 13/7(2) eq:+0.249 (-0.152)
> > Player: 67.17% (G:1.71% B:0.02%)
> > Opponent: 32.83% (G:2.65% B:0.05%)
> In Michy's article, "I Mourn for Falafel," he talks about the "island"
> concept, where all your outfield points are stripped.
>
> http://www.world-backgammon-association.com/attachments/article/131/I-Mourn-for-Falafel.pdf
>
> If you play 13/7(2) then you retain the inflexible "island" formation.
> If you play 13/10(2) 8/5(2), then you create useful spares on your 10pt.
> You might worry that it will be hard to clear the 10pt safely, and that
> is indeed a concern; however, by the time you have to break the 10pt,
> your opponent may have already been forced to break anchor, or you may
> have had a chance to roll doublets again.
>
> ---
> Tim Chow

Thanks for your analysis and the article.
In the final position, I think 13/11 5/1 is hugely motivated by the opponent's stripped midpoint which
means that, if the opponent hits with an ace, we will usually get an enormous number of returns.

If we variantize by non-stripping the opponent's midpoint, moving an opponent's checker from their 8 point to their midpoint, 13/11 5/1 might no longer be a weekend in Paris,
despite the deislandisation of the play.

Paul

Re: Tuition time

<e3fe480b-60dd-4f77-b083-5c6f7d393ee2n@googlegroups.com>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9469&group=rec.games.backgammon#9469

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:1c83:b0:46b:a79a:2f0b with SMTP id ib3-20020a0562141c8300b0046ba79a2f0bmr18948247qvb.103.1660673832029;
Tue, 16 Aug 2022 11:17:12 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:1482:b0:343:6755:a7df with SMTP id
e2-20020a056808148200b003436755a7dfmr9388457oiw.288.1660673831827; Tue, 16
Aug 2022 11:17:11 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.160.216.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2022 11:17:11 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <tdbm74$38me9$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=71.222.45.238; posting-account=yTK5ugoAAACRs3TgAz02kMublhPpKQBJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.222.45.238
References: <c1a44c24-ff87-4c6d-9d3e-42cd6819c700n@googlegroups.com> <tdbm74$38me9$1@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <e3fe480b-60dd-4f77-b083-5c6f7d393ee2n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Tuition time
From: bananabo...@gmail.com (Stick Rice)
Injection-Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2022 18:17:12 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
 by: Stick Rice - Tue, 16 Aug 2022 18:17 UTC

On Sunday, August 14, 2022 at 4:33:42 PM UTC-4, Tim Chow wrote:
> On 8/14/2022 2:44 PM, peps...@gmail.com wrote:
> > XGID=-ADAb-C-B-B-aB----bbbcba--:1:-1:1:33:0:1:3:0:10
> > X:Daniel O:eXtremeGammon
> >
> > Score is X:0 O:1. Unlimited Game, Jacoby Beaver
> > +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> > | X O | | O O O O O | +---+
> > | X O | | O O O O | | 2 |
> > | | | O | +---+
> > | | | |
> > | | | |
> > | |BAR| |
> > | | | |
> > | | | X |
> > | | | X X |
> > | X X | | X O X |
> > | O X X | | X O X X X |
> > +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> > Pip count X: 92 O: 111 X-O: 0-1
> > Cube: 2, O own cube
> > X to play 33
> >
> >
> >
> > 1. XG Roller+ 13/10(2) 8/5(2) eq:+0.402
> > Player: 73.56% (G:2.96% B:0.03%)
> > Opponent: 26.44% (G:2.33% B:0.06%)
> >
> > 2. XG Roller+ 13/7(2) eq:+0.249 (-0.152)
> > Player: 67.17% (G:1.71% B:0.02%)
> > Opponent: 32.83% (G:2.65% B:0.05%)
> In Michy's article, "I Mourn for Falafel," he talks about the "island"
> concept, where all your outfield points are stripped.
>
> http://www.world-backgammon-association.com/attachments/article/131/I-Mourn-for-Falafel.pdf
>
> If you play 13/7(2) then you retain the inflexible "island" formation.
> If you play 13/10(2) 8/5(2), then you create useful spares on your 10pt.
> You might worry that it will be hard to clear the 10pt safely, and that
> is indeed a concern; however, by the time you have to break the 10pt,
> your opponent may have already been forced to break anchor, or you may
> have had a chance to roll doublets again.
>
> ---
> Tim Chow

It's not just this though...it's making the 5pt/landing point in conjunction with it. If the 5pt was already made then 7(2) would be correct.

Stick

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.8
clearnet tor