novaBBS - rec.games.backgammon - Rollout: Anchor or 4pt?

Anchor or 4pt?

<tekuo3$1fdsv$2@dont-email.me>

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9635&group=rec.games.backgammon#9635

copy link Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon

Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Anchor or 4pt?
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 08:10:44 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <tekuo3$1fdsv$2@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 12:10:43 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="b4840910a22efd55c1ac95789b314a87";
logging-data="1554335"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18o0U/9YlLErju1KPnd0FkKqDGO+bZtKo8="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.13.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:lRc2PNvG/q4jX6ZujljConl6V9A=
Content-Language: en-US

by: Timothy Chow - Tue, 30 Aug 2022 12:10 UTC

XGID=-a---BD-D-AacB---cbeA---A-:0:0:1:64:0:0:0:0:10

X:Player 1 O:Player 2
Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O O | | O X X |
| X O O | | O |
| O | | O |
| | | O |
| | | O |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| X | | X |
| O X | | X |
| O X | | X X |
| O O X X | | X X O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 146 O: 145 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 64

---
Tim Chow

Re: Anchor or 4pt?

<tel5e3$1g3at$1@dont-email.me>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9636&group=rec.games.backgammon#9636

copy link Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon

Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: REMOVETH...@gmail.com (badgolferman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Anchor or 4pt?
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 14:04:51 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <tel5e3$1g3at$1@dont-email.me>
References: <tekuo3$1fdsv$2@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 14:04:51 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="b67ddd2b8f875f6d904ab435ca5f583c";
logging-data="1576285"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18htVkbtJVfhdPewtHh/UHj+cj/mNTHUkk="
User-Agent: XanaNews/1.19.1.372 (x86; Portable ISpell)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:Lq6UobgULN3y1RCM8NOqImea/yo=
X-Face: 09>j%-W3HnyolA\I${DXfUw}~nKyLDiU8IwUVM'`

by: badgolferman - Tue, 30 Aug 2022 14:04 UTC

Timothy Chow wrote:

>XGID=-a---BD-D-AacB---cbeA---A-:0:0:1:64:0:0:0:0:10
>
>X:Player 1 O:Player 2
>Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | X O O | | O X X |
> | X O O | | O |
> | O | | O |
> | | | O |
> | | | O |
> | |BAR| |
> | | | |
> | X | | X |
> | O X | | X |
> | O X | | X X |
> | O O X X | | X X O |
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
>Pip count X: 146 O: 145 X-O: 0-0
>Cube: 1
>X to play 64
>
>---
>Tim Chow

Seems to me this is a great opportunity to take a high anchor in his
home board, especially since he's almost sure to hit on the next turn.

24/20, 10/4

Re: Anchor or 4pt?

<teljg6$1hj4e$1@dont-email.me>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9641&group=rec.games.backgammon#9641

copy link Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon

Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ah_c...@ymail.com (ah...Clem)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Anchor or 4pt?
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 14:04:52 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <teljg6$1hj4e$1@dont-email.me>
References: <tekuo3$1fdsv$2@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 18:04:54 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="c90a15cf800145c5d0a38a5355a3034f";
logging-data="1625230"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/hBRLp04MdOkS+uF8sWDd5"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.12.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:xlDb+dADiLA3tAEsFEJnUQO3CBc=
In-Reply-To: <tekuo3$1fdsv$2@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US

by: ah...Clem - Tue, 30 Aug 2022 18:04 UTC

On 8/30/2022 8:10 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
> XGID=-a---BD-D-AacB---cbeA---A-:0:0:1:64:0:0:0:0:10
>
> X:Player 1   O:Player 2
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> | X           O O |   | O X           X |
> | X           O O |   | O                |
> |             O    |   | O                |
> |                  |   | O                |
> |                  |   | O                |
> |                  |BAR|                  |
> |                  |   |                  |
> |             X    |   | X                |
> | O           X    |   | X                |
> | O           X    |   | X X             |
> | O O X     X    |   | X X           O |
> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count X: 146 O: 145 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 1
> X to play 64
>

X will be ahead in the race after this play so it would seem to be
thematic to run the stragglers rather than anchor up. Not at all sure
though.

Re: Anchor or 4pt?

<6da6b0c1-26da-457e-90ac-700d04c67017n@googlegroups.com>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9649&group=rec.games.backgammon#9649

copy link Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon

X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:151b:b0:6bb:5508:59bb with SMTP id i27-20020a05620a151b00b006bb550859bbmr13130363qkk.55.1661888069202;
Tue, 30 Aug 2022 12:34:29 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:430b:b0:f2:ca00:e775 with SMTP id
w11-20020a056870430b00b000f2ca00e775mr11242422oah.288.1661888068784; Tue, 30
Aug 2022 12:34:28 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!1.us.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!border-1.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 12:34:28 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <tel5e3$1g3at$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=71.222.45.238; posting-account=yTK5ugoAAACRs3TgAz02kMublhPpKQBJ
NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.222.45.238
References: <tekuo3$1fdsv$2@dont-email.me> <tel5e3$1g3at$1@dont-email.me>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <6da6b0c1-26da-457e-90ac-700d04c67017n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Anchor or 4pt?
From: bananabo...@gmail.com (Stick Rice)
Injection-Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 19:34:29 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lines: 36

by: Stick Rice - Tue, 30 Aug 2022 19:34 UTC

On Tuesday, August 30, 2022 at 10:04:53 AM UTC-4, badgolferman wrote:
> Timothy Chow wrote:
>
> >XGID=-a---BD-D-AacB---cbeA---A-:0:0:1:64:0:0:0:0:10
> >
> >X:Player 1 O:Player 2
> >Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
> > +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
> > | X O O | | O X X |
> > | X O O | | O |
> > | O | | O |
> > | | | O |
> > | | | O |
> > | |BAR| |
> > | | | |
> > | X | | X |
> > | O X | | X |
> > | O X | | X X |
> > | O O X X | | X X O |
> > +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> >Pip count X: 146 O: 145 X-O: 0-0
> >Cube: 1
> >X to play 64
> >
> >---
> >Tim Chow
> Seems to me this is a great opportunity to take a high anchor in his
> home board, especially since he's almost sure to hit on the next turn.
>
> 24/20, 10/4

How is he sure to hit? We have the best possible 3pt board after making the 4pt. He's got no board so will only hit us if he rolls a natural. (or some awkward number where he hits bc it doesn't play reasonable any other way and we'll have direct return shots so we're fairly happy)

Stick

Re: Anchor or 4pt?

<temc22$1jp2o$3@dont-email.me>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9655&group=rec.games.backgammon#9655

copy link Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon

Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Anchor or 4pt?
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 21:04:02 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <temc22$1jp2o$3@dont-email.me>
References: <tekuo3$1fdsv$2@dont-email.me> <teljg6$1hj4e$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 01:04:02 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="8ebc54e983023d074845b4f61dd58d0a";
logging-data="1696856"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/aBsl9ZE4jilWq60poKu+Rdq6FSfOovdw="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.13.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:jG1EYGdALpckxGoFLZn4mG18YCM=
In-Reply-To: <teljg6$1hj4e$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US

by: Timothy Chow - Wed, 31 Aug 2022 01:04 UTC

On 8/30/2022 2:04 PM, ah...Clem wrote:
> On 8/30/2022 8:10 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
>> XGID=-a---BD-D-AacB---cbeA---A-:0:0:1:64:0:0:0:0:10
>>
>> X:Player 1   O:Player 2
>> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
>> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
>> | X           O O |   | O X           X |
>> | X           O O |   | O                |
>> |             O    |   | O                |
>> |                  |   | O                |
>> |                  |   | O                |
>> |                  |BAR|                  |
>> |                  |   |                  |
>> |             X    |   | X                |
>> | O           X    |   | X                |
>> | O           X    |   | X X             |
>> | O O X     X    |   | X X           O |
>> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
>> Pip count X: 146 O: 145 X-O: 0-0
>> Cube: 1
>> X to play 64
>>
>
> X will be ahead in the race after this play so it would seem to be
> thematic to run the stragglers rather than anchor up. Not at all sure
> though.

What do you mean by "run the stragglers"? 24/14? 20/10? Something
else?

---
Tim Chow

Re: Anchor or 4pt?

<tenujh$1rfrv$1@dont-email.me>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9672&group=rec.games.backgammon#9672

copy link Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon

Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ah_c...@ymail.com (ah...Clem)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Anchor or 4pt?
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 11:26:40 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <tenujh$1rfrv$1@dont-email.me>
References: <tekuo3$1fdsv$2@dont-email.me> <teljg6$1hj4e$1@dont-email.me>
<temc22$1jp2o$3@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 15:26:41 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="340074e2e1d3edeebaa1df2be2593e66";
logging-data="1949567"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19ecN5xcfspRLvASOW4IZ8C"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.12.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:+5ys2Ho0CICz2uHamPzs0xEi8AE=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <temc22$1jp2o$3@dont-email.me>

by: ah...Clem - Wed, 31 Aug 2022 15:26 UTC

On 8/30/2022 9:04 PM, Timothy Chow wrote:
> On 8/30/2022 2:04 PM, ah...Clem wrote:
>> On 8/30/2022 8:10 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
>>> XGID=-a---BD-D-AacB---cbeA---A-:0:0:1:64:0:0:0:0:10
>>>
>>> X:Player 1   O:Player 2
>>> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
>>>   +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
>>>   | X           O O |   | O X           X |
>>>   | X           O O |   | O                |
>>>   |             O    |   | O                |
>>>   |                  |   | O                |
>>>   |                  |   | O                |
>>>   |                  |BAR|                  |
>>>   |                  |   |                  |
>>>   |             X    |   | X                |
>>>   | O           X    |   | X                |
>>>   | O           X    |   | X X             |
>>>   | O O X     X    |   | X X           O |
>>>   +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
>>> Pip count X: 146 O: 145 X-O: 0-0
>>> Cube: 1
>>> X to play 64
>>>
>>
>> X will be ahead in the race after this play so it would seem to be
>> thematic to run the stragglers rather than anchor up. Not at all sure
>> though.
>
> What do you mean by "run the stragglers"? 24/14? 20/10? Something
> else?

Posted before finishing my morning tea. I tried to cancel this
obviously wrong post, but usenet thinks I have already picked up my dice.

I'll make the four point since ahead in the race implies I want to
spring the runners as opposed to anchoring. But not this move.

Rollout: Anchor or 4pt?

<teqd7f$26q16$1@dont-email.me>

copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9689&group=rec.games.backgammon#9689

copy link Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon

Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Rollout: Anchor or 4pt?
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 09:48:32 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <teqd7f$26q16$1@dont-email.me>
References: <tekuo3$1fdsv$2@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 13:48:32 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="2741956c795d6b76e143eea64ee5e4f6";
logging-data="2320422"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+INcIGnQrx+mL2lKN44sEdtPeElZfbPuU="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.13.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:zS5m+XCaXMpgr+4lsbrI+nc5GCQ=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <tekuo3$1fdsv$2@dont-email.me>

by: Timothy Chow - Thu, 1 Sep 2022 13:48 UTC

XGID=-a---BD-D-AacB---cbeA---A-:0:0:1:64:0:0:0:0:10

A useful early-game rule of thumb that I learned from Nack Ballard is,
"either 5pt beats either 4pt." However, the above position, while still
fairly early in the game, is moving into the midgame. Playing 10/4 8/4
doesn't "just" make the 4pt; it creates the very strong 8pt/6pt/5pt/4pt
formation. On the other hand, if X anchors up with 24/20, then there
isn't a very good 6 to play. And since O has no board yet, the danger
of getting attacked isn't too severe yet.

For money, XG says that making the 4pt is much better than anchoring up.
At gammon save, however (not shown here), XG anchors up. (At DMP, XG
makes the 4pt, but its second choice is running with 20/10.)

1. Rollout¹ 10/4 8/4 eq:+0.319
Player: 56.09% (G:20.75% B:0.65%)
Opponent: 43.91% (G:9.94% B:0.46%)
Confidence: ±0.014 (+0.305..+0.333) - [100.0%]

2. Rollout¹ 24/20 10/4 eq:+0.237 (-0.083)
Player: 54.49% (G:15.27% B:0.34%)
Opponent: 45.51% (G:6.48% B:0.27%)
Confidence: ±0.013 (+0.223..+0.250) - [0.0%]

3. Rollout¹ 20/10 eq:+0.212 (-0.107)
Player: 55.21% (G:14.84% B:0.47%)
Opponent: 44.79% (G:10.15% B:0.42%)
Confidence: ±0.013 (+0.199..+0.225) - [0.0%]

4. Rollout¹ 24/20 8/2 eq:+0.193 (-0.126)
Player: 53.71% (G:14.97% B:0.32%)
Opponent: 46.29% (G:7.27% B:0.33%)
Confidence: ±0.012 (+0.181..+0.206) - [0.0%]

¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.207.pre-release

---
Tim Chow

It is better to live rich than to die rich. -- Samuel Johnson

interests / rec.games.backgammon / Rollout: Anchor or 4pt?

Subject	Author
Anchor or 4pt?	Timothy Chow
Re: Anchor or 4pt?	badgolferman
Re: Anchor or 4pt?	Stick Rice
Re: Anchor or 4pt?	ah...Clem
Re: Anchor or 4pt?	Timothy Chow
Re: Anchor or 4pt?	ah...Clem
Rollout: Anchor or 4pt?	Timothy Chow