"According to unconfirmed reports, the new authorities of the regions will hold a vote on 11 September. Taking into consideration Russian laws and the fact that many local residents hold Russian passports, there seem to be no obstacles to holding the referendum.

Following Kherson and Zaporozhye regions, similar referendums are likely to be held in Odessa, Kharkiv and Nikolayev regions of Ukraine.

Afterwards, a special federal referendum can be held at the initiative of the Kremlin. It may also be regional votes, like it was in 2020. In the weakest scenario, the new authorities of the above-mentioned regions will proclaim themselves as self-proclaimed republics.

A simplified procedure to apply for Russian citizenship has been in force in Zaporozhye and Kherson regions of Ukraine since May 25. Volodymyr Saldo, the head of the Kherson military and civilian administration said that any Ukrainian would be able to apply for a Russian passport.

For the time being, Russia has not taken the Zaporozhye under total control, which makes a referendum not advisable.

Sergei Kiriyenko, first deputy chairman of the Russian presidential administration, personally visited the Kherson reigon. Kiriyenko made a number of important statements as a result of his visit:

Any residents of the Kherson region will be able to apply for Russian passports in the near future;
Russia will gradually finance all social spheres — pensions, social payments, salaries, which were previously paid by the Ukrainian authorities.

The Kherson region will become a full-fledged region of Russia, similarly to how it was the case of Crimea. There will be no entry time discrimination.."

https://english.pravda.ru/news/world/152291-ukraine_russia_annex/

Looks like the conflict would continue for a while.
At least until promised financial assistance and advanced weapons from the West are delivered and significantly change the battlefield.

On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 5:50:01 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> "According to unconfirmed reports, the new authorities of the regions will hold a vote on 11 September. Taking into consideration Russian laws and the fact that many local residents hold Russian passports, there seem to be no obstacles to holding the referendum.

Typical Russian fake news. The elections will not be fair. This is the Russians we are talking about. Remember Crimea?

> Following Kherson and Zaporozhye regions, similar referendums are likely to be held in Odessa, Kharkiv and Nikolayev regions of Ukraine.
>
> Afterwards, a special federal referendum can be held at the initiative of the Kremlin. It may also be regional votes, like it was in 2020. In the weakest scenario, the new authorities of the above-mentioned regions will proclaim themselves as self-proclaimed republics.
>
> A simplified procedure to apply for Russian citizenship has been in force in Zaporozhye and Kherson regions of Ukraine since May 25. Volodymyr Saldo, the head of the Kherson military and civilian administration said that any Ukrainian would be able to apply for a Russian passport.
>
> For the time being, Russia has not taken the Zaporozhye under total control, which makes a referendum not advisable.
>
> Sergei Kiriyenko, first deputy chairman of the Russian presidential administration, personally visited the Kherson reigon. Kiriyenko made a number of important statements as a result of his visit:
>
> Any residents of the Kherson region will be able to apply for Russian passports in the near future;
> Russia will gradually finance all social spheres — pensions, social payments, salaries, which were previously paid by the Ukrainian authorities.
>
> The Kherson region will become a full-fledged region of Russia, similarly to how it was the case of Crimea. There will be no entry time discrimination."
>
> https://english.pravda.ru/news/world/152291-ukraine_russia_annex/
>
> Looks like the conflict would continue for a while.
> At least until promised financial assistance and advanced weapons from the West are delivered and significantly change the battlefield.

ltlee1 <ltlee1@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "According to unconfirmed reports, the new authorities of the regions
> will hold a vote on 11 September. Taking into consideration Russian
> laws and the fact that many local residents hold Russian passports,
> there seem to be no obstacles to holding the referendum.
[…]
> https://english.pravda.ru/news/world/152291-ukraine_russia_annex/
>
> Looks like the conflict would continue for a while.
> At least until promised financial assistance and advanced weapons from
> the West are delivered and significantly change the battlefield.

IMHO Such (fundamental) military change is possible but unlikely in 2022
via mere weapon delivery to (existing) Ukrainian Army.
A diplomatic versions: It does not seem to be the most likely scenario.

--
A. Filip : Big (Tech) Brother is watching you.
| "Just out of curiosity does this actually mean something or have
| some of the few remaining bits of your brain just evaporated?"
| (Patricia O Tuama, rissa@….TX.US)

On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 8:50:01 PM UTC+8, ltlee1 wrote:
> "According to unconfirmed reports, the new authorities of the regions will hold a vote on 11 September. Taking into consideration Russian laws and the fact that many local residents hold Russian passports, there seem to be no obstacles to holding the referendum.
>
> Following Kherson and Zaporozhye regions, similar referendums are likely to be held in Odessa, Kharkiv and Nikolayev regions of Ukraine.
>
> Afterwards, a special federal referendum can be held at the initiative of the Kremlin. It may also be regional votes, like it was in 2020. In the weakest scenario, the new authorities of the above-mentioned regions will proclaim themselves as self-proclaimed republics.
>
> A simplified procedure to apply for Russian citizenship has been in force in Zaporozhye and Kherson regions of Ukraine since May 25. Volodymyr Saldo, the head of the Kherson military and civilian administration said that any Ukrainian would be able to apply for a Russian passport.
>
> For the time being, Russia has not taken the Zaporozhye under total control, which makes a referendum not advisable.
>
> Sergei Kiriyenko, first deputy chairman of the Russian presidential administration, personally visited the Kherson reigon. Kiriyenko made a number of important statements as a result of his visit:
>
> Any residents of the Kherson region will be able to apply for Russian passports in the near future;
> Russia will gradually finance all social spheres — pensions, social payments, salaries, which were previously paid by the Ukrainian authorities.
>
> The Kherson region will become a full-fledged region of Russia, similarly to how it was the case of Crimea. There will be no entry time discrimination."
>
> https://english.pravda.ru/news/world/152291-ukraine_russia_annex/
>
> Looks like the conflict would continue for a while.
> At least until promised financial assistance and advanced weapons from the West are delivered and significantly change the battlefield.

The conflict can be some way to go as defensive battle is changed. There will be significant change in the outcome.

bmoore, <news:18dcb942-006a-4e82-8c5b-f174f43e4204n@googlegroups.com>
> On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 5:50:01 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:

>> "According to unconfirmed reports, the new authorities of the regions
>> will hold a vote on 11 September. Taking into consideration Russian
>> laws and the fact that many local residents hold Russian passports,
>> there seem to be no obstacles to holding the referendum.
>
> Typical Russian fake news. The elections will not be fair. This is the
> Russians we are talking about. Remember Crimea?

Bmoore is an incurable baby, for other readers the below - about Crimea.

May 2014, American Pew found "Crimean residents are almost universally
positive toward Russia .. Overwhelming majorities say the March 16th
referendum was free and fair (91%)" <https://is.gd/agkuT2>

Gallup poll (sponsored by the U.S. government, suddenly), in June 2014
<https://is.gd/xptTX9> (page 28) had found that the vast majority of the
Crimeans agree that the referendum expressed their will fairly.

In February 2015, the major German pollster GfK had found similar results
<https://is.gd/Yhm15G>: when Crimeans were asked "do you endorse Russia's
annexation" 93% gave positive response while only 4% said they dislike it.

That's what drives the Westerners so mad: the glaringly obvious fact
that the overwhelming majority of the locals volutarily preferred to join
Russia instead of "association with the EU" etc (because the Westerners
keep such a big wishful thinking that everyone must be dreaming of being
somehow associated with "the west").

>> https://english.pravda.ru/news/world/152291-ukraine_russia_annex/

Pravda.ru is known so that its reporting is sometimes unbalanced, btw.

What they predict is not necessarily to come true.

On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 11:38:24 AM UTC-7, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
> bmoore, <news:18dcb942-006a-4e82...@googlegroups.com>
> > On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 5:50:01 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
>
> >> "According to unconfirmed reports, the new authorities of the regions
> >> will hold a vote on 11 September. Taking into consideration Russian
> >> laws and the fact that many local residents hold Russian passports,
> >> there seem to be no obstacles to holding the referendum.
> >
> > Typical Russian fake news. The elections will not be fair. This is the
> > Russians we are talking about. Remember Crimea?
> Bmoore is an incurable baby, for other readers the below - about Crimea.

Translation: Oleg is a Russian troll.

> May 2014, American Pew found "Crimean residents are almost universally
> positive toward Russia .. Overwhelming majorities say the March 16th
> referendum was free and fair (91%)" <https://is.gd/agkuT2>
>
> Gallup poll (sponsored by the U.S. government, suddenly), in June 2014
> <https://is.gd/xptTX9> (page 28) had found that the vast majority of the
> Crimeans agree that the referendum expressed their will fairly.
>
> In February 2015, the major German pollster GfK had found similar results
> <https://is.gd/Yhm15G>: when Crimeans were asked "do you endorse Russia's
> annexation" 93% gave positive response while only 4% said they dislike it.
>
> That's what drives the Westerners so mad: the glaringly obvious fact
> that the overwhelming majority of the locals volutarily preferred to join
> Russia instead of "association with the EU" etc (because the Westerners
> keep such a big wishful thinking that everyone must be dreaming of being
> somehow associated with "the west").
>
> >> https://english.pravda.ru/news/world/152291-ukraine_russia_annex/
>
> Pravda.ru is known so that its reporting is sometimes unbalanced, btw.
>
> What they predict is not necessarily to come true.

On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 5:23:59 PM UTC-7, bmoore wrote:
> On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 11:38:24 AM UTC-7, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
> > bmoore, <news:18dcb942-006a-4e82...@googlegroups.com>
> > > On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 5:50:01 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
> >
> > >> "According to unconfirmed reports, the new authorities of the regions
> > >> will hold a vote on 11 September. Taking into consideration Russian
> > >> laws and the fact that many local residents hold Russian passports,
> > >> there seem to be no obstacles to holding the referendum.
> > >
> > > Typical Russian fake news. The elections will not be fair. This is the
> > > Russians we are talking about. Remember Crimea?
> > Bmoore is an incurable baby, for other readers the below - about Crimea..
> Translation: Oleg is a Russian troll.

https://www.npr.org/2018/01/25/580577210/how-has-life-in-crimea-changed-since-russia-seized-it-from-ukraine

DAVID GREENE, HOST: So it's been nearly four years now since Russia seized the Crimean Peninsula from Ukraine by force. This was a move that led to sanctions against Russia, also soured relations between Russia and the West. NPR's Moscow correspondent Lucian Kim was in Crimea when Russian troops arrived, and he returned there this week. We began our conversation with Lucian talking about the changes he's noticed since Russia took over.

LUCIAN KIM, BYLINE: What I found most surprising is that people were afraid to talk on microphone even if they support the takeover, even if they support Russian President Vladimir Putin. The main complaint I heard from almost everyone I talked to was that there's not enough work, that prices have doubled because the land connection to Ukraine has been cut. One driver even told me that the bribes have doubled.

[...]

> > May 2014, American Pew found "Crimean residents are almost universally
> > positive toward Russia .. Overwhelming majorities say the March 16th
> > referendum was free and fair (91%)" <https://is.gd/agkuT2>
> >
> > Gallup poll (sponsored by the U.S. government, suddenly), in June 2014
> > <https://is.gd/xptTX9> (page 28) had found that the vast majority of the
> > Crimeans agree that the referendum expressed their will fairly.
> >
> > In February 2015, the major German pollster GfK had found similar results
> > <https://is.gd/Yhm15G>: when Crimeans were asked "do you endorse Russia's
> > annexation" 93% gave positive response while only 4% said they dislike it.
> >
> > That's what drives the Westerners so mad: the glaringly obvious fact
> > that the overwhelming majority of the locals volutarily preferred to join
> > Russia instead of "association with the EU" etc (because the Westerners
> > keep such a big wishful thinking that everyone must be dreaming of being
> > somehow associated with "the west").
> >
> > >> https://english.pravda.ru/news/world/152291-ukraine_russia_annex/
> >
> > Pravda.ru is known so that its reporting is sometimes unbalanced, btw.
> >
> > What they predict is not necessarily to come true.

bmoore, <news:8aa0bec6-696d-4e5c-88cd-2f2d1144ee9an@googlegroups.com>
> On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 5:23:59 PM UTC-7, bmoore wrote:
>> On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 11:38:24 AM UTC-7, Oleg Smirnov wrote:

> https://www.npr.org/2018/01/25/580577210/how-has-life-in-crimea-changed-since-russia-seized-it-from-ukraine
>
> DAVID GREENE, HOST: So it's been nearly four years now since Russia seized
> the Crimean Peninsula from Ukraine by force. This was a move that led to
> sanctions against Russia, also soured relations between Russia and the West.
> NPR's Moscow correspondent Lucian Kim was in Crimea when Russian troops
> arrived, and he returned there this week. We began our conversation with
> Lucian talking about the changes he's noticed since Russia took over.
>
> LUCIAN KIM, BYLINE: What I found most surprising is that people were afraid
> to talk on microphone even if they support the takeover, even if they
> support Russian President Vladimir Putin. The main complaint I heard from
> almost everyone I talked to was that there's not enough work, that prices
> have doubled because the land connection to Ukraine has been cut. One driver
> even told me that the bribes have doubled.

American propaganda bullshit.

>>> May 2014, American Pew found "Crimean residents are almost universally
>>> positive toward Russia .. Overwhelming majorities say the March 16th
>>> referendum was free and fair (91%)" <https://is.gd/agkuT2>
>>>
>>> Gallup poll (sponsored by the U.S. government, suddenly), in June 2014
>>> <https://is.gd/xptTX9> (page 28) had found that the vast majority of the
>>> Crimeans agree that the referendum expressed their will fairly.
>>>
>>> In February 2015, the major German pollster GfK had found similar results
>>> <https://is.gd/Yhm15G>: when Crimeans were asked "do you endorse Russia's
>>> annexation" 93% gave positive response while only 4% said they dislike
>>> it.

So these reputable pollsters did not hesitate to produce a fraud.
They must have accepted Kremlin's bribes, published doctored data,
and didn't care about their reputation at all. Did not they?

Bmoore is a silly baby.

>>> That's what drives the Westerners so mad: the glaringly obvious fact
>>> that the overwhelming majority of the locals volutarily preferred to join
>>> Russia instead of "association with the EU" etc (because the Westerners
>>> keep such a big wishful thinking that everyone must be dreaming of being
>>> somehow associated with "the west").

"Oleg Smirnov" <os333@netc.eu> wrote:
> bmoore, <news:8aa0bec6-696d-4e5c-88cd-2f2d1144ee9an@googlegroups.com>
>> On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 5:23:59 PM UTC-7, bmoore wrote:
>>> On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 11:38:24 AM UTC-7, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
>
>> https://www.npr.org/2018/01/25/580577210/how-has-life-in-crimea-changed-since-russia-seized-it-from-ukraine
>>
>> DAVID GREENE, HOST: So it's been nearly four years now since Russia seized
>> the Crimean Peninsula from Ukraine by force. This was a move that led to
>> sanctions against Russia, also soured relations between Russia and the West.
>> NPR's Moscow correspondent Lucian Kim was in Crimea when Russian troops
>> arrived, and he returned there this week. We began our conversation with
>> Lucian talking about the changes he's noticed since Russia took over.
>>
>> LUCIAN KIM, BYLINE: What I found most surprising is that people were afraid
>> to talk on microphone even if they support the takeover, even if they
>> support Russian President Vladimir Putin. The main complaint I heard from
>> almost everyone I talked to was that there's not enough work, that prices
>> have doubled because the land connection to Ukraine has been cut. One driver
>> even told me that the bribes have doubled.
>
> American propaganda bullshit.
> […]

Do you suggest that the brides tripled? ;-)

--
A. Filip : Big (Tech) Brother is watching you.
| Democracy is the worst form of government except all those other
| forms that have been tried from time to time. (Winston Churchill)

On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 10:58:50 AM UTC-7, A. Filip wrote:
> "Oleg Smirnov" <os...@netc.eu> wrote:
> > bmoore, <news:8aa0bec6-696d-4e5c...@googlegroups.com>
> >> On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 5:23:59 PM UTC-7, bmoore wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 11:38:24 AM UTC-7, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
> >
> >> https://www.npr.org/2018/01/25/580577210/how-has-life-in-crimea-changed-since-russia-seized-it-from-ukraine
> >>
> >> DAVID GREENE, HOST: So it's been nearly four years now since Russia seized
> >> the Crimean Peninsula from Ukraine by force. This was a move that led to
> >> sanctions against Russia, also soured relations between Russia and the West.
> >> NPR's Moscow correspondent Lucian Kim was in Crimea when Russian troops
> >> arrived, and he returned there this week. We began our conversation with
> >> Lucian talking about the changes he's noticed since Russia took over.
> >>
> >> LUCIAN KIM, BYLINE: What I found most surprising is that people were afraid
> >> to talk on microphone even if they support the takeover, even if they
> >> support Russian President Vladimir Putin. The main complaint I heard from
> >> almost everyone I talked to was that there's not enough work, that prices
> >> have doubled because the land connection to Ukraine has been cut. One driver
> >> even told me that the bribes have doubled.
> >
> > American propaganda bullshit.
> > […]
>
> Do you suggest that the brides tripled? ;-)

Quadrupled:-)

bmoore, <news:11f15c7d-a72e-4e60-97c0-cf74b8ab0425n@googlegroups.com>
> On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 10:58:50 AM UTC-7, A. Filip wrote:
>> "Oleg Smirnov" <os...@netc.eu> wrote:

>> Do you suggest that the brides tripled? ;-)
>
> Quadrupled:-)

Kiss each other's arse, kids.

On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 2:38:24 PM UTC-4, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
> bmoore, <news:18dcb942-006a-4e82...@googlegroups.com>
> > On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 5:50:01 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
>
> >> "According to unconfirmed reports, the new authorities of the regions
> >> will hold a vote on 11 September. Taking into consideration Russian
> >> laws and the fact that many local residents hold Russian passports,
> >> there seem to be no obstacles to holding the referendum.
> >
> > Typical Russian fake news. The elections will not be fair. This is the
> > Russians we are talking about. Remember Crimea?
> Bmoore is an incurable baby, for other readers the below - about Crimea.
>
> May 2014, American Pew found "Crimean residents are almost universally
> positive toward Russia .. Overwhelming majorities say the March 16th
> referendum was free and fair (91%)" <https://is.gd/agkuT2>
>
> Gallup poll (sponsored by the U.S. government, suddenly), in June 2014
> <https://is.gd/xptTX9> (page 28) had found that the vast majority of the
> Crimeans agree that the referendum expressed their will fairly.
>
> In February 2015, the major German pollster GfK had found similar results
> <https://is.gd/Yhm15G>: when Crimeans were asked "do you endorse Russia's
> annexation" 93% gave positive response while only 4% said they dislike it..
>
> That's what drives the Westerners so mad: the glaringly obvious fact
> that the overwhelming majority of the locals volutarily preferred to join
> Russia instead of "association with the EU" etc (because the Westerners
> keep such a big wishful thinking that everyone must be dreaming of being
> somehow associated with "the west").
>
> >> https://english.pravda.ru/news/world/152291-ukraine_russia_annex/
>
> Pravda.ru is known so that its reporting is sometimes unbalanced, btw.
>
> What they predict is not necessarily to come true.

A prediction or an negotiation position.

If the special military operation is a big risky gamble, looks like Russia had won
this time. At least some thinkers have changed their focus to how the West
could tangle themselves from the mess with minimum loses.

The following from https://nationalinterest.org/feature/building-lasting-settlement-ukraine-202920

"Current Western strategy in Ukraine is not conducive to peace because it does not deal with some essential aspects of the current conflict. It does not deal with the rights of Russian speakers in Ukraine, and it does not address the thirty-year failure to set up a pan-European security system that includes Russia. Both are issues of primary importance to Russia. The relationship between them may not be obvious to many in the West, but for Russia, they illustrate a mindset of promoting Western interests and values at the expense of Russia’s.

It is precisely because of this mindset that the West was caught flat-footed when Russia suddenly seized the initiative to assert its interests through military means. This has left the West in a quandary, with few palatable options. Its preferred means of coercion—economic sanctions—are bound to become less and less effective over time, just as they have been in other countries, which have always found workable substitutes to reduce dependence on the West. Russia’s importance in providing the world with essential commodities, such as oil, gas, grains, and fertilizer, gives it even more economic clout.

At the same time, the political isolation that the West has sought to impose, while it has a certain public relations appeal, further limits the West’s ability to get Russia to cooperate on other issues of vital importance, and forces Russia into new alliances that will invariably be anti-Western. Henry Kissinger has recently argued that institutionalizing such animosity would be historically unprecedented and should be avoided at all costs.

Meanwhile, despite the rhetoric from Kyiv, the war has not brought Ukraine any closer to a resolution of its own internal conflicts. The rise of Ukrainian patriotic fervor is quite real, yet it often reflects the same regional disparities that have divided Ukraine since its independence. No matter how the military conflict ends, therefore, old resentments are likely to resurface, with Russian-speakers once again being blamed for their supposedly divided loyalties. As the popular Ukrainian journalist Mikhail Dubinyanski recently put it, “it took but a moment for the front lines to stabilize, for the traditional internal hate to re-emerge.”

A lasting settlement must recognize that this conflict will not end with the withdrawal of Russian troops. A settlement must, therefore, address three vital aspects of the conflict simultaneously, or it will not last. First, the competition between Russia and the West over Ukraine, which is clearly not going to end after the fighting stops. Second, the conflict between Russian and Ukrainian elites over their respective national and cultural differences, which is only going to intensify after the war. Third, the conflict between Ukraine’s western and eastern halves, which current patriotic enthusiasm has temporarily masked.

Our proposal does not seek to end these conflicts, which are endemic, but rather to shift the competition from the military arena, with its concomitant dangers of escalation, to the arenas of economic well-being and soft power. In essence, this is the kind of competition that the West was engaged in with the Soviet Union during the heyday of détente after it decided that coexistence was preferable to mutually assured destruction.

In exchange for the cessation of hostilities and the withdrawal of its forces, Russia would be obliged to not annex the regions it currently occupies and agree to hold a status referendum there under international supervision, some ten to twenty years from now. Ukraine, for its part, would accept its temporary loss of control over Novorossiya (the regions of Donbass, Lugansk, Zaporozhye, Kherson, and Nikolayev), with the proviso that their status will be ultimately determined by the referendum outcome. "

On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 11:48:08 AM UTC-7, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
> bmoore, <news:11f15c7d-a72e-4e60...@googlegroups.com>
> > On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 10:58:50 AM UTC-7, A. Filip wrote:
> >> "Oleg Smirnov" <os...@netc.eu> wrote:
>
> >> Do you suggest that the brides tripled? ;-)
> >
> > Quadrupled:-)
> Kiss each other's arse, kids.

Weak response as always, Olga.