On September 3, 2022 at 4:42:55 PM UTC-6, MK wrote:

> On September 3, 2022 at 11:28:03 AM UTC-6, Nasti Chestikov wrote:

> > The only available version of XG I can find is 2.10 how
> > do you guys manage to run with a version of 2.19 beta?
> It was announced in some forums over 7 years ago.

> http://www.bgonline.org/forums/webbbs_config.pl?read=174103
> It provided a direct link to download 2.19.208 beta.

I read a few comments in that thread and saw that
Chow had participated with many posts but his XG
rollouts still indicate he has "2.19.207.pre-release".

How can this be??

The version I have says "2.19.211.2671.pre-release".

How can this be??

Are anyone using versions newer than "2.19.208 beta"
(or at least newer than Chow's "2.19.207.pre-release"
or even newer than my "2.19.211.2671.pre-release")?

The help file says "©2009-2012 GameSite 2000 Ltd."

The about info says "©2009-2015 GameSite 2000 Ltd."

The last installation EXE's file version is: 2.29.0.0 and
it's detail info says "©2009-2015 GameSite 2000 Ltd."
and it's digital signature date is ‎‎"September ‎8, ‎2015".

Has anyone any idea about why and how there are so
many unannounced, undocumented releases?

MK

On 4/09/2022 9:29 am, MK wrote:

> Has anyone any idea about why and how there are so
> many unannounced, undocumented releases?

Pre-release versions are usually supplied to trusted testers and
contributors. Some of these inevitably find their way into the
public domain before being rolled into the new/current official
release. Normal practise.

On Sunday, 4 September 2022 at 00:43:02 UTC+1, Simon Woodhead wrote:
> On 4/09/2022 9:29 am, MK wrote:
>
> > Has anyone any idea about why and how there are so
> > many unannounced, undocumented releases?
> Pre-release versions are usually supplied to trusted testers and
> contributors. Some of these inevitably find their way into the
> public domain before being rolled into the new/current official
> release. Normal practise.

So trusted <> trusted?

:-)

On September 3, 2022 at 5:43:02 PM UTC-6, Simon Woodhead wrote:

> On 4/09/2022 9:29 am, MK wrote:

>> Has anyone any idea about why and how there are
>> so many unannounced, undocumented releases?

> Pre-release versions are usually supplied to trusted
> testers and contributors. Some of these inevitably
> find their way into the public domain before being
> rolled into the new/current official release. Normal
> practise.

Perhaps you mean it's normal practice among shady
software developers but trusted, respected ones keep
a bug log and a change log. In fact, even XG's web site
had those from version 2.01 to 2.10 during a span of
one year and a half.

The fact that there hasn't been any such documentation
from 2.19.208 beta over seven and a half years ago to
latest one that I know about 2.19.211.2671.pre-release
of an unknown date also about seven years ago may be
a good indication that XG is now an abandonware...

What I still don't understand and you all still skirt is this:
did Chow reverted to 2.19.207.pre-release after he had
commented on his experiences with the 2.19.208 beta?
And how come nobody here seems to be using 2.19.208
beta, let alone the 2.19.207.pre-release that I have or even
possibly a later version than that?

I guess I was one of those lucky "XG's trusted testers and
contributors" who received special updates... :)

MK

On 5/09/2022 8:28 pm, MK wrote:

> I guess I was one of those lucky "XG's trusted testers and
> contributors" who received special updates... :)

Or maybe you found one of those escaped releases.

I've seen screenshots of V3.X Beta. Doesn't mean anything.
Xavier goes at whatever pace suits him. But I understand that
conspiracy theorists see a conspiracy behind every tree.

On September 5, 2022 at 4:34:40 AM UTC-6, Simon Woodhead wrote:

> On 5/09/2022 8:28 pm, MK wrote:

>> I guess I was one of those lucky "XG's trusted testers
>> and contributors" who received special updates... :)

> Or maybe you found one of those escaped releases.

What do you mean by "escaped release"? Cat out of
the basket? Why was it being kept secret? How come
none of you found the same "escaped release" as I did?

> I've seen screenshots of V3.X Beta.

Really? Wow! where? I would like to see too...

> Doesn't mean anything.

What do you mean? Was it a hoax by trollers??

> Xavier goes at whatever pace suits him.

If I had to guess, I would have said that he is wairing
for the next release of Gnubg so that he can copy the
code... ;)

> But I understand that conspiracy theorists see a
> conspiracy behind every tree.

Do you consider any of my questions a conspiracy
just because XG's shit lickers like you can't answer
them!? Just answer the fucking questions asshole!

MK

On 9/5/2022 6:34 AM, Simon Woodhead wrote:
> On 5/09/2022 8:28 pm, MK wrote:
>
>> I guess I was one of those lucky "XG's trusted testers and
>> contributors" who received special updates... :)
>
> Or maybe you found one of those escaped releases.
>
> I've seen screenshots of V3.X Beta. Doesn't mean anything.
> Xavier goes at whatever pace suits him. But I understand that
> conspiracy theorists see a conspiracy behind every tree.
>

As Tim says "Sixes don't grow on trees."

But conspiracy theories do. And there are plenty of them that are ripe
for the picking.

On 9/5/2022 6:28 AM, MK wrote:
> What I still don't understand and you all still skirt is this:
> did Chow reverted to 2.19.207.pre-release after he had
> commented on his experiences with the 2.19.208 beta?
> And how come nobody here seems to be using 2.19.208
> beta, let alone the 2.19.207.pre-release that I have or even
> possibly a later version than that?

I've never reverted to a previous version. I'm aware there's
a slightly more recent version but I haven't bothered to upgrade
because I'm satisfied with the current version, and "if it ain't
broke, don't fix it." There's always a small chance that something
breaks when I try to upgrade a piece of software, no matter what
software it is.

---
Tim Chow

On September 5, 2022 at 7:37:08 AM UTC-6, ah...Clem wrote:

> As Tim says "Sixes don't grow on trees."
> But conspiracy theories do. And there are
> plenty of them that are ripe for the picking.

Generic garbage. :( Sounds like someone's
daily horoscope. Was it yours today..? :)

MK

On September 5, 2022 at 8:05:10 AM UTC-6, Tim Chow wrote:

> On 9/5/2022 6:28 AM, MK wrote:

>> What I still don't understand and you all still skirt is this:
>> did Chow reverted to 2.19.207.pre-release after he had
>> commented on his experiences with the 2.19.208 beta?

> I've never reverted to a previous version. I'm aware there's
> a slightly more recent version but I haven't bothered to
> upgrade because I'm satisfied with the current version,

Thanks for giving some answer to the part of the question
concerning you but it doesn't really answer it.

http://www.bgonline.org/forums/webbbs_config.pl?read=174187

was a thread to announce XG's "XG 2.19.208 beta" (which was
the thread's title) and the questions and comments (including
yours) were about that.

For example, when some Ray Kershaw asked: "I have installed
2.19.208. How do I see the "added statistics on rollout"?, you
responded: "First perform a rollout. Select a move or moves, and
then right-click on it to get a menu. Select "Display Rollout Stats."

If you had never installed XG 2.19.208, how did you know to tell
him that?

Then when Jason Lee asked: "Is this the feature that Timothy
Chow has had on his wish list?", you excitedly responded: (by
even changing the thread title to "Yes!!"), "It is precisely what I
wanted! There is much rejoicing in my corner of the world."

And now you are saying that you never "bothered to install XG
2.19.208"...? Come on, make an effort to be credible.

Don't worry. I won't fry you. I enjoy catch and release fishing.
After sadistically waching you all thrash around to unhook
yourselves, I will set all of you "Peanutbutterfish" free... ;)

MK

On 9/5/2022 10:50 PM, MK wrote:
> http://www.bgonline.org/forums/webbbs_config.pl?read=174187
>
> was a thread to announce XG's "XG 2.19.208 beta" (which was
> the thread's title) and the questions and comments (including
> yours) were about that.
>
> For example, when some Ray Kershaw asked: "I have installed
> 2.19.208. How do I see the "added statistics on rollout"?, you
> responded: "First perform a rollout. Select a move or moves, and
> then right-click on it to get a menu. Select "Display Rollout Stats."
>
> If you had never installed XG 2.19.208, how did you know to tell
> him that?
>
> Then when Jason Lee asked: "Is this the feature that Timothy
> Chow has had on his wish list?", you excitedly responded: (by
> even changing the thread title to "Yes!!"), "It is precisely what I
> wanted! There is much rejoicing in my corner of the world."
>
> And now you are saying that you never "bothered to install XG
> 2.19.208"...? Come on, make an effort to be credible.

The feature you're talking about is already in 2.19.207.pre-release.

---
Tim Chow

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 2:37:08 PM UTC+1, ah...Clem wrote:
> On 9/5/2022 6:34 AM, Simon Woodhead wrote:
> > On 5/09/2022 8:28 pm, MK wrote:
> >
> >> I guess I was one of those lucky "XG's trusted testers and
> >> contributors" who received special updates... :)
> >
> > Or maybe you found one of those escaped releases.
> >
> > I've seen screenshots of V3.X Beta. Doesn't mean anything.
> > Xavier goes at whatever pace suits him. But I understand that
> > conspiracy theorists see a conspiracy behind every tree.
> >
> As Tim says "Sixes don't grow on trees."

Tim might be wrong about that, though.
Suppose there are exactly six apples on my apple tree.
Have I not then grown a six on my tree?

Paul

On September 5, 2022 at 8:05:10 AM UTC-6, Tim Chow wrote:

> On 9/5/2022 6:28 AM, MK wrote:

>> did Chow reverted to 2.19.207.pre-release after he had
>> commented on his experiences with the 2.19.208 beta?

> I've never reverted to a previous version. .....

I think you are lying... ;)

On September 6, 2022 at 6:47:42 AM UTC-6, Tim Chow wrote:

> On 9/5/2022 10:50 PM, MK wrote:

>> For example, when some Ray Kershaw asked: "I have .....

>> If you had never installed XG 2.19.208, how did you know
>> to tell him that?

>> Then when Jason Lee asked: "Is this the feature that
>> Timothy Chow has had on his wish list?", you excitedly
>> responded: (by even changing the thread title to "Yes!!"),
>> "It is precisely what I wanted! There is much rejoicing in
>> my corner of the world."

>> And now you are saying that you never "bothered to install
>> XG 2.19.208"...? Come on, make an effort to be credible.

> The feature you're talking about is already in 2.19.207.pre-release.

If true, why didn't you say so in your answer to Jason Lee
instead of emoting "Yes!!" and pretenting that you had just
discovered that feature!?

Regardless, whether it was already in 2.19.207 or not doesn't
answer my question whether you installed 2.19.208 and then
reverted to 2.19.207?

I already knew the answer but just wanted to watch you thrash
around like a Peanutbutterfish on a hook... :)

It only takes a few minutes to search BGonline with your name
and XG version numbers. Let's see:

Until December 29, 2014 you were using 2.10

http://www.bgonline.org/forums/webbbs_config.pl?read=171197

Before 2.19.208 was announced on February 13, 2015 (see link
in previous post), you were already using it by January 30, 2015

http://www.bgonline.org/forums/webbbs_config.pl?read=173034

And also on February 16, 2015 right after it had been announced.

http://www.bgonline.org/forums/webbbs_config.pl?read=174333

And you kept using it until June 17, 2017

http://www.bgonline.org/forums/webbbs_config.pl?read=201120

Your next post on BGonline, after about a year, shows that you had
reverted to 2.19.207

http://www.bgonline.org/forums/webbbs_config.pl?read=207263

Doing the same search in RGB shows that you were using 2.19.208
up until October 31, 2017

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.games.backgammon/c/F3W3JM2xnxk/m/aoC6gPusBQAJ

Now, let me guess your next slick answer. You were doing rollouts
on and posting from your boyfrien's computer...? :)

You may be a slippery Peanutbutterfish but you are on my hook. :)

MK

On 9/6/2022 8:17 PM, MK wrote:
> Before 2.19.208 was announced on February 13, 2015 (see link
> in previous post), you were already using it by January 30, 2015
>
> http://www.bgonline.org/forums/webbbs_config.pl?read=173034

That's interesting. I know I've never reverted, but here's a possible
explanation. I had specifically requested the feature in question from
Xavier, so for a brief period of time, I was getting versions directly
from Xavier rather than downloading them from the website. From my
perspective, I was just getting newer and newer versions, but I never
bothered checking the version numbers, so it's possible that at some
point he sent me something that had a lower version number than what
he had previously sent me.

Another possibility, though less likely, is that it was around that time
that my old laptop was dying and I bought a new laptop. For a short
time I had two computers that both had XG on them. I threw the old
computer away so I can't check, but maybe what I did was that I
transferred my purchased license to my new computer, but I still wanted
to use XG on my old computer for a little while before it died
completely, so I put a trial version on the old computer. So the old
computer may have had a slightly newer version on it. I don't have any
recollection of doing this, though.

---
Tim Chow

On Wednesday, 7 September 2022 at 03:55:48 UTC+1, Tim Chow wrote:

> That's interesting. I know I've never reverted, but here's a possible
> explanation. I had specifically requested the feature in question from
> Xavier, so for a brief period of time, I was getting versions directly
> from Xavier rather than downloading them from the website. From my
> perspective, I was just getting newer and newer versions, but I never
> bothered checking the version numbers, so it's possible that at some
> point he sent me something that had a lower version number than what
> he had previously sent me.
>
> Another possibility, though less likely, is that it was around that time
> that my old laptop was dying and I bought a new laptop. For a short
> time I had two computers that both had XG on them. I threw the old
> computer away so I can't check, but maybe what I did was that I
> transferred my purchased license to my new computer, but I still wanted
> to use XG on my old computer for a little while before it died
> completely, so I put a trial version on the old computer. So the old
> computer may have had a slightly newer version on it. I don't have any
> recollection of doing this, though.
>
> ---
> Tim Chow

Embarrassing. Murat has caught you with your pants down and you're floundering around like someone who has fallen into a barrel full of tits and comes up sucking his thumb.

Please try harder. A little less time with the flashy cars on YouTube and a bit more time improving your backgammon game.

Now, I want to make sure you've paid attention to my post so I'll be asking you a bunch of questions later and I will want them answered immediately.

On 9/7/2022 12:26 PM, Nasti Chestikov wrote:
> Please try harder. A little less time with the flashy cars on YouTube and a bit more time improving your backgammon game.

I'm too busy working on Eraser.

---
Tim Chow

On September 6, 2022 at 8:55:48 PM UTC-6, Tim Chow wrote:

> On 9/6/2022 8:17 PM, MK wrote:

>> Before 2.19.208 was announced on February 13, 2015
>> ..... you were already using it by January 30, 2015

> That's interesting. I know I've never reverted, but here's a
> possible explanation. ..... I was getting versions directly
> from Xavier ..... it's possible that at some point he sent
> me something that had a lower version number .....
> Another possibility, though less likely, is that it was .....

Like I said, I'm not going to fry you over this. I caught you
and I'm releasing you without even having to give you the
benefit of the doubt because how you explain it doesn't
matter much, next to how bad it looks on you regardless.

It must have been embarrassing enough for you to not be
aware of what versions of XG you were using for so many
years... :(

Don't you think either that I'm looking for opportunities to
get you or others here. Whether I had a natural ability or I
acquired it by studying and experience, I have a keen eye
for seing even impertinent looking details and constantly
analysing anything and everything I observe around me. I
also have a decent memory to remember details later on
to put them together in unexpected situations like this.

One thing you all can learn from this is that having so many
public/private versions of XG leads to stupid arguments like
"your XG does this", "my XG doesn't do that", etc... :(

The other thing you all may learn from these is to not accuse
me or others of "conspiracists" as first reaction of your own
denial of realities. Being suspectful of the suspicious is not
conspiracy. Considering possibilities (without making direct
suggestions) is not conspiracy.

For example, there may be many more versions of XG out
there than the numbered versions. The same installer may
install slightly different components on different computers,
for various reasons and based on various conditions. Thus
different users may experience different XG behaviour even
if they all see the same version number in the about info...

If you are not capable of considering such possibilities, you
can't be a good analyst. And if you are not a good analyst,
you can not analyse backgammon positions either and you
can not be a good backgammon player (even though you can
still be a word-class gamblegammon giant;)...

Try to overcome your aversions towards me. It may do you
good to try learning something from me instead.

MK