Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

6 May, 2024: The networking issue during the past two days has been identified and appears to be fixed. Will keep monitoring.


interests / rec.games.backgammon / Rollout: Pottle or not?

SubjectAuthor
* Pottle or not?Timothy Chow
+- Re: Pottle or not?ah...Clem
`- Rollout: Pottle or not?Timothy Chow

1
Pottle or not?

<tgcbk3$1gfu4$4@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9933&group=rec.games.backgammon#9933

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Pottle or not?
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 08:27:47 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <tgcbk3$1gfu4$4@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 12:27:47 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="a50b4f8d78eaad0347fe1b4aa561fdb8";
logging-data="1589188"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/IgWETPNnQNs18/dMHSKTNOSt9RBEhVAA="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.2.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:AXF3ATByh6NM7vrsh3gfdf/eRgw=
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Timothy Chow - Tue, 20 Sep 2022 12:27 UTC

Since ah_clem seems to be currently interested in "Pottle or not"
problems, here's one to ponder.

XGID=-a-B--D-B--BdD---b-cAba-b-:0:0:1:32:0:0:0:0:10

X:Player 1 O:Player 2
Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O | | O X O O O |
| X O | | O O O |
| X | | O |
| X | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| O | | X |
| O | | X |
| O X X | | X X |
| O X X | | X X O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 140 O: 123 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 32

---
Tim Chow

Re: Pottle or not?

<tgf8eo$1rdnr$1@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9946&group=rec.games.backgammon#9946

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ah_c...@ymail.com (ah...Clem)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Re: Pottle or not?
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 10:52:06 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <tgf8eo$1rdnr$1@dont-email.me>
References: <tgcbk3$1gfu4$4@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 14:52:09 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="b6a868275edd8baaa478333526d3c10a";
logging-data="1947387"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX187JpVQqNxz2r18Ram6z5iK"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/91.13.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:lbtI6htT+8zd3wrsjJpkQH9Z7t0=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <tgcbk3$1gfu4$4@dont-email.me>
 by: ah...Clem - Wed, 21 Sep 2022 14:52 UTC

On 9/20/2022 8:27 AM, Timothy Chow wrote:
> Since ah_clem seems to be currently interested in "Pottle or not"
> problems, here's one to ponder.
>
> XGID=-a-B--D-B--BdD---b-cAba-b-:0:0:1:32:0:0:0:0:10
>
> X:Player 1   O:Player 2
> Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
>  +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
>  | X           O    |   | O  X  O  O     O |
>  | X           O    |   | O     O        O |
>  | X                |   | O                |
>  | X                |   |                  |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  |                  |BAR|                  |
>  |                  |   |                  |
>  | O                |   | X                |
>  | O                |   | X                |
>  | O  X        X    |   | X        X       |
>  | O  X        X    |   | X        X     O |
>  +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
> Pip count  X: 140  O: 123 X-O: 0-0
> Cube: 1
> X to play 32

My understanding is that Pottling is more favored when ahead or roughly
even in the race, but when behind it can be better to hang back for more
contact.

X is behind in the race, so perhaps it's better to do something other
than run the straggler. But, I'm not seeing anything "very constructive"
so Pottling would be correct according to the letter of the rule. Also,
with O's homeboard blot getting hit in the outfield gives X lots of
counterplay, so I'll Pottle here.

20/15.

Rollout: Pottle or not?

<tghj2q$24bev$3@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/interests/article-flat.php?id=9957&group=rec.games.backgammon#9957

  copy link   Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: tchow12...@yahoo.com (Timothy Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
Subject: Rollout: Pottle or not?
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 08:05:47 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 115
Message-ID: <tghj2q$24bev$3@dont-email.me>
References: <tgcbk3$1gfu4$4@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 12:05:46 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="899e857cdeec9cd08737d5f4519f0020";
logging-data="2239967"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18MWCmJDmk1UzbTnsMWAzoRlT1FzTnLeAs="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/102.3.0
Cancel-Lock: sha1:AG4BQ60YZs7LNXo9w0uveJzMD1E=
In-Reply-To: <tgcbk3$1gfu4$4@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Timothy Chow - Thu, 22 Sep 2022 12:05 UTC

XGID=-a-B--D-B--BdD---b-cAba-b-:0:0:1:32:0:0:0:0:10

X:Player 1 O:Player 2
Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O | | O X O O O |
| X O | | O O O |
| X | | O |
| X | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| O | | X |
| O | | X |
| O X X | | X X |
| O X X | | X X O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 140 O: 123 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 32

As ah_clem said, sometimes being behind in the pip count can be a
reason not to Pottle. The idea is that if you disengage into a
pure race then you'll be losing, and Pottling is a step toward
disengaging. But there are a couple of other factors to take into
account:

1. If your straggler is in danger of being attacked, then Pottling
may be the lesser of two evils.

2. If you're well positioned to contain the checker (or checkers)
that your opponent has not yet escaped, then Pottling does not
really disengage, and may even help, by bringing another checker
into the containment effort.

These factors can be difficult to judge. The rollout belows deems
that anything other than 20/15 is a whopper, but if I shift the
blot in O's home board by just one pip to the 2pt, then 20/15 is
tied with 13/11 13/10 (see variant below).

1. Rollout¹ 20/15 eq:-0.267
Player: 43.87% (G:6.46% B:0.27%)
Opponent: 56.13% (G:18.13% B:0.19%)
Confidence: ±0.010 (-0.277..-0.257) - [100.0%]

2. Rollout¹ 13/8 eq:-0.369 (-0.102)
Player: 42.11% (G:7.60% B:0.32%)
Opponent: 57.89% (G:22.17% B:0.26%)
Confidence: ±0.010 (-0.379..-0.358) - [0.0%]

3. Rollout¹ 13/11 13/10 eq:-0.386 (-0.119)
Player: 42.04% (G:8.68% B:0.39%)
Opponent: 57.96% (G:25.23% B:0.36%)
Confidence: ±0.012 (-0.398..-0.374) - [0.0%]

4. Rollout¹ 6/1* eq:-0.413 (-0.146)
Player: 40.95% (G:9.86% B:0.35%)
Opponent: 59.05% (G:24.39% B:0.50%)
Confidence: ±0.012 (-0.425..-0.401) - [0.0%]

¹ 1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.207.pre-release

-------
Variant
-------

XGID=-a-B--D-B--BdD---b-cAb-ab-:0:0:1:32:0:0:0:0:10

X:Player 1 O:Player 2
Score is X:0 O:0. Unlimited Game
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
| X O | | O X O O O |
| X O | | O O O |
| X | | O |
| X | | |
| | | |
| |BAR| |
| | | |
| O | | X |
| O | | X |
| O X X | | X X |
| O X X | | X X O |
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count X: 140 O: 122 X-O: 0-0
Cube: 1
X to play 32

1. Rollout¹ 20/15 eq:-0.304
Player: 43.20% (G:6.59% B:0.28%)
Opponent: 56.80% (G:18.73% B:0.18%)
Confidence: ±0.005 (-0.309..-0.299) - [67.5%]

2. Rollout¹ 13/11 13/10 eq:-0.306 (-0.002)
Player: 44.06% (G:10.40% B:0.53%)
Opponent: 55.94% (G:24.75% B:0.34%)
Confidence: ±0.006 (-0.312..-0.300) - [32.5%]

3. Rollout¹ 13/8 eq:-0.317 (-0.013)
Player: 43.67% (G:8.64% B:0.40%)
Opponent: 56.33% (G:21.60% B:0.21%)
Confidence: ±0.005 (-0.322..-0.312) - [0.0%]

¹ 5184 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
Dice Seed: 271828
Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.19.207.pre-release

---
Tim Chow

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.81
clearnet tor