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interests / soc.culture.china / Re: Ukraine and its lesson for the rest of the world.

Re: Ukraine and its lesson for the rest of the world.

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Subject: Re: Ukraine and its lesson for the rest of the world.
From: papadum...@gmail.com (papa dumdum)
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 by: papa dumdum - Wed, 12 Oct 2022 03:44 UTC

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 6:16:16 AM UTC, decadence thlon wrote:
> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 9:41:23 AM UTC, paul polikos wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 9:10:08 AM UTC, paul polikos wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 3:04:08 AM UTC, dosai prata wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 6:08:27 AM UTC, jim gavon wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 11:07:43 AM UTC+8, frodo sam0 wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 10:04:09 AM UTC, paul polikos wrote:
> > > > > > > On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 6:35:04 AM UTC, gera...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 2:56:21 PM UTC, paul polikos wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 2:52:07 PM UTC, paul polikos wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 7:24:01 AM UTC, wog wacker wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 5:33:43 PM UTC, bmoore wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 9:14:04 PM UTC-7, frodo sam0 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 12:09:21 PM UTC, ltlee1 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 9:27:38 PM UTC-5, frodo sam0 wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The US is solely responsible for what is happening in Ukraine today. To fully understand this, let’s look at what the Americans have been up to.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't think the US is solely responsible.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > As is, it is fair to call the US a co-belligerent. Without doubt, the US is exploiting and worsening the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > situation, it nevertheless does not create the situation. The root cause of the conflict is post colonial
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > or imperial stress disorder, or PCSD.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The conflict between India and Pakistan, Israel and Palestine, Iraq and Kuwait, Pakistan and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Afghanistan, China and India, and many other between African nations are all manifestations
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of PCSD. In all cases, the peoples simply don't agree with borders demarcated by previous colonial
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > master/imperialist. And they fought for their REAL or ACCEPTABLE borders.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Listen to this long interview of Russia Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. He revealed a lot of things not reported by the Western media.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecpRrep0twE
> > > > > > > > > > > > I watched it, thanks. Excellent interview. What's an example of something Lavrov revealed that is not reported by the Western media?
> > > > > > > > > > > Graham Phillips is another brave reporter who reports from the Donbass. He brings updates about the fight in Azorstal, Mariupol.
> > > > > > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=graham+phillips+donbass
> > > > > > > > > > "The Russians are hammering the hell out of the Ukrainians." An assessment of the situation by a ex-British Commander which is very different from those of the MSM.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1RQswDU_bs
> > > > > > > > > Another report from Mariupol by Graham Phillips.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4clZ6lfSqOw
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The end is nigh.
> > > > > > > > The surrendering has began.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxz6gk0i0Ik
> > > > > > > What is happening between Russia and Ukraine was forewarned by William Burns who was US ambassador to Russia in 2008. Read his memo to then Sec. of State Condoleeza Rice.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://carnegieendowment.org/pdf/back-channel/2008EmailtoRice1.pdf
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In particular, refer to Part 3. MAP refers to NATO's Membership Action Plan.
> > > > > > The Russians are making slow but steady progress in Donbass. They may be aiming for a swathe stretching from Kharkiv to Odessa.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For those who knows Mandarin, this is another source of news about the "special military operations" in Ukraine. It has regular reporting with videos from the Russian side.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7Ky7FjJBI7ojx2Yqz2pkNQ
> > > > > Russia is not winning. Ukrainians are counter-attacking in Kherson. Where's the Russian airforce? In a land-based war, air-superiority can make a lot of difference.
> > > > > Will Ukraine become Afghanistan for Russia as it was for the Soviet Union?
> > > > Russia seems to be struggling in Ukraine. It is up against that "Coalition of Willing Democracies". Like-minded nations which are against US hegemony should form a coalition with Russia. N Korea is talking about sending over 100,000 of its men to Ukraine. Others should follow suit. If not, after taking out Russia, the US will come for the rest of them, one by one.
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yats4seJaW0
> > >
> > > In his latest address to the UNSC, Russia's Foreign Minister reminded the world of what has really happened in Ukraine. Ukraine is not such pitiful victim of aggression as it wants the world to believe. The Zelensky regime is nationalists and racists, i.e., Nazism.
> > >
> > > Some salient points:
> > > 1. Neo-Nazis came to power in Ukraine after a violent coup with the help of Westerners.
> > > 2. The neo-Nazis mounted a campaign to carry out persecutions, ethnic cleansing and genocide against ethnic Russians.
> > > 3. How many in the world know how the Ukrainian Nazis chased dozens of ethnic Russians in Odessa into a building and then set it on fire to bring a fiery deaths to those trapped in there while the Ukrainian Nazis watched and heard the cries of deaths without any sense of remorse?
> > > 4. Zelensky referred to the people of Donbass not as humans but mere species or beings.
> > > 5. Quote from a Ukrainian official: "We are trying to kill as many Russians as possible. The more we kill today the fewer our children will need to kill"
> > Why hasn't Russia won by now, more than half year since the "special military operations" begin?
> >
> > Russia has disturbed the US-led "Rule-based World Order". Nations which submit to this Order together possess the most powerful military and have a stranglehold on the world's economy. Russia has to fight the war on two major fronts: military and economy.
> >
> > Military
> > A coalition of nations feed Ukraine with a steady flow of advanced weapons. Russia has confined itself to fighting in Ukraine only.
> >
> > Economy
> > Economic sanctions have not have much effects on Russia because it has huge supplies of energy which the world needs.
> >
> > To fight to win:
> > 1. Russia may have to extend the scope of the war. It can't be targeting weapons only after they have arrived at their destination of Ukraine. It should destroy them at source., even if that means the US.
> > 2. Go beyond earth to destroy those satellites which are feeding information to the Ukrainians on Russians troop movements.
> > 3. Russia cannot fight alone against a powerful coalition and expect to win. It has to have a coalition too.
> Another area Russia is losing out is propaganda. The West has a stranglehold on the world's narrative, on any issue, through its media. This is not just MSM but also social media. Most of them are private enterprises. But that does not mean they will be neutral. They have to fall in line with their government policies. They have to be patriotic too.
>
> The US accuses Chinese companies of being a threat to its security because these companies are state enterprises. Private enterprises can be a threat to the security of a country too. SpaceX is actively working against Russia in the Ukraine conlict. Its Starlink satellites continue to provide communication links to US allies where terrestrial links become unavailable.
>
> The prevalence of English language is another factor working for the West.. Large portion of the world's population learn about current world affairs through the English language. Many countries source their News from News Agencies originating from the English-speaking part of the world. Social media companies with worldwide reach are English-speaking Americans' such as Facebook, Youtube, Instagram, etc.. They decide what gets publicised worldwide. For instance, Youtube has banned Russia Today.

It’s time for Russia to own up that it’s actions in Ukraine is nothing short of a war and it is not doing well in this war.

Why? The Narrative.
“A special military operations to de-militarise and de-Nazify Ukraine.”

This is not a good narrative. It cannot effectively counter its enemies’ narrative that Russia is invading Ukraine. Western propaganda spread it as “The Russian Invasion of Ukraine”.

This affects Russia’s diplomacy in the world. It has few supporters in the UN for its actions in Ukraine. Hardly any nation is supporting Russia in the war. Its two big allies – India and China – are treading cautiously, as if they are walking in a minefield.

In the war front, Russia has found itself fighting alone against a US-led NATO.

Most important of all for Russia, not having the right narrative means not winning over the heart and mind of its own people for the war. This is affecting the morale of Russians from soldiers in the battlefields to ordinary people on the streets. Increasing number of Russians are believing that, in Ukraine, they are at fault, they are the invaders.

This is affecting soldiers fighting in the battlefields. It is affecting the effort to mobilise more citizens for the war.

Perhaps the Russians can learn from the Korean War.
In that war, US and South Korean armies crossed the 38th Parallel dividing North and South Korea and pushed towards the Yalu River at the border between North Korea and China. The North Koreans pleaded for help from the Chinese. In response, the Chinese regime in those days mobilised a People’s Volunteer Army(PVA) and entered the war in Korea. US and South Korean propaganda spared no effort to demonise the Chinese as invaders. Despite this, there was no shortage of Chinese willing to join the PVA. More than this, they fought with a fighting and sacrificing spirit that even their enemies admired. This was because the Chinese got their narrative right. This was best conveyed through its war slogan of

抗美援朝,保家卫国。

Briefly translated, it means:
Counter the US, Aid North Korea,
Protect our Families, Defend our Nation.

It was telling the Chinese that helping North Korea to fight against the US was ultimately about protecting their own families and defending their own nation.

Its not too late for the Russians to have a slogan like:
Counter NATO, Aid the Donbass,
Protect our Families, Defend our Nation.

There are truths in this slogan which are quite similar to what happened in the Korean War between North Korea, US and China.
In the current case, Ukraine and NATO were expanding towards the border with Russia and waging an ethnic war against Russians in the border region of Donbass. The Russians there had pleaded for Russia’s aid. Russia responded with “special military operations to de-militarise and de-Nazify Ukraine”. If Russia had not intervened, there is a likelihood that the Ukrainians and their NATO-allies, after taking over Ukraine, would proceed to invade Russia. It seems many ordinary Russians have not realised this. Those who are proud to have escaped mobilisation for the war may find that they have no more families or nation to return to in the near future.

It’s still not too late for the Kremlin to set its narrative right.

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o Ukraine and its lesson for the rest of the world.

By: frodo sam0 on Fri, 25 Feb 2022

73frodo sam0
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