If someone could help me out please, I remember that this implementation had an interesting design, I'm not exactly sure but I think it always compiled and then executed what was input, so you could use loops out of definitions. And it used a prepended backtick (`) to compile the address of a word, and was quite idiosyncratic in other ways. I think it was targeted at Linux, and was written by a collaborator of Moore.

TIA.

On 2021-09-28, Tom Harris <celephicus@gmail.com> wrote:
> If someone could help me out please, I remember that this implementation had
> an interesting design, I'm not exactly sure but I think it always compiled
> and then executed what was input, so you could use loops out of definitions.
> And it used a prepended backtick (`) to compile the address of a word, and
> was quite idiosyncratic in other ways. I think it was targeted at Linux, and
> was written by a collaborator of Moore.
>
> TIA.
You don't know how oto properly format text, your line is too long and
can't express yourself what you have exactly on your mind....

--

7-77-777
Evil Sinner!

Possibly this:

FreeForth
http://christophe.lavarenne.free.fr/ff/

On 2021-09-28 10:39 PM, Branimir Maksimovic wrote:
> On 2021-09-28, Tom Harris <celephicus@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If someone could help me out please, I remember that this implementation had
>> an interesting design, I'm not exactly sure but I think it always compiled
>> and then executed what was input, so you could use loops out of definitions.
>> And it used a prepended backtick (`) to compile the address of a word, and
>> was quite idiosyncratic in other ways. I think it was targeted at Linux, and
>> was written by a collaborator of Moore.
>>
>> TIA.
> You don't know how oto properly format text, your line is too long and
> can't express yourself what you have exactly on your mind....
>
>
The text was probably created with Google which places no limits on
line length. There is no respect for sacred tradition at Google. :-)

Maybe it is because I am an English speaker as my first language but
I had no difficulty understanding the OP. However the writing style
is very informal and is how one speaks in a casual conversation.
You are correct that it would not be appropriate in an essay.

On Wednesday, 29 September 2021 at 15:33:32 UTC+2, Brian Fox wrote:

> The text was probably created with Google which places no limits on
> line length. There is no respect for sacred tradition at Google. :-)

I understood Tom's message also, no problem.

Getting people to use to formatting designed to get around ancient hardware restrictions is like to getting people to use monochrome Forth block source files when they can use a full screen colour text editor.

I just wish Google would automatically concatenate the split lines, they look terrible when reading on my mobile phone, they get wrapped at about 60 columns in portrait and, in landscape, half the screen is taken up with cruft.

Or maybe I'm just not old skool enough.

On 29/09/2021 23:33, Brian Fox wrote:
>
> The text was probably created with Google which places no limits on
> line length. There is no respect for sacred tradition at Google. :-)

No respect for authors when simple formatting choices such
as spaces after a new line are made impossible. All the code
that's ever been posted on c.l.f is suddenly rendered useless
or distorted.

'Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the
present controls the past' - Orwell

Tom Harris <celephicus@gmail.com> writes:
>If someone could help me out please, I remember that this implementation ha=
>d an interesting design, I'm not exactly sure but I think it always compile=
>d and then executed what was input, so you could use loops out of definitio=
>ns.

There are a number of systems that have tried to deal with the
limitations of interpret state in this way. Someone mentioned
FreeForth by Christophe Lavarenne; John Doty described LSE as working
in that way.

>And it used a prepended backtick (`) to compile the address of a word,

Interestingly, Gforth has a recognizer that recognizes `WORD as the xt
of WORD. I have not heard before about any other system that uses `
in this way. We chose ` (rather than the more obvious ') because some
people have been using pairs of words FOO and 'FOO, so when reading
'FOO it would be unclear whether this means the xt of FOO or if there
might be a word 'FOO and that is called; we are not aware of people
using pairs of FOO and `FOO.

>and was quite idiosyncratic in other ways. I think it was targeted at Linux=
>, and was written by a collaborator of Moore.

Does not ring a bell, sorry.

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2021: https://euro.theforth.net/2021

Phillip Eaton <pjeaton70@gmail.com> writes:
@Getting people to use to formatting designed to get around ancient hardware restrictions is like to getting people to use monochrome Forth block source files when they can use a full screen colour text editor.

It should not be when the "ancient hardware restriction" has still not
been overcome, because it is our brain. Printers have known for
centuries that lines should be limited to around 75 characters,
because otherwise it becomes difficult to find the next line.

And as long as people use proper newsreaders, Usenet posters typically
do the right thing and limit their lines to 70-75 characters. This
works well on a newsreader sized to display 80 characters (to allow
for a few indentation levels).

You seem to think it's a good idea to post endless lines and let the
newsreader do the wrapping. It's not. Usenet is not set up for this.
Quoting does not work (to demonstrate this, I have left your
excessively long line, and used a non-standard quote character, so
that Google will probably not work around the breakage it caused with
the excessive lines), and it does not work well with pre-formatted
text.

@I just wish Google would automatically concatenate the split lines, they look terrible when reading on my mobile phone, they get wrapped at about 60 columns in portrait and, in landscape, half the screen is taken up with cruft.

Have you looked for a newsreader then that shows less cruft?

It's funny that you complain about "ancient hardware limitations" when
your problem is not-so-ancient hardware (and software) limitations.

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2021: https://euro.theforth.net/2021

On 2021-10-02, Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
> Tom Harris <celephicus@gmail.com> writes:
>>If someone could help me out please, I remember that this implementation ha=
>>d an interesting design, I'm not exactly sure but I think it always compile=
>>d and then executed what was input, so you could use loops out of definitio=
>>ns.
>
> There are a number of systems that have tried to deal with the
> limitations of interpret state in this way. Someone mentioned
> FreeForth by Christophe Lavarenne; John Doty described LSE as working
> in that way.
>
>>And it used a prepended backtick (`) to compile the address of a word,
>
> Interestingly, Gforth has a recognizer that recognizes `WORD as the xt
> of WORD. I have not heard before about any other system that uses `
> in this way. We chose ` (rather than the more obvious ') because some
> people have been using pairs of words FOO and 'FOO, so when reading
> 'FOO it would be unclear whether this means the xt of FOO or if there
> might be a word 'FOO and that is called; we are not aware of people
> using pairs of FOO and `FOO.
>
>>and was quite idiosyncratic in other ways. I think it was targeted at Linux=
>>, and was written by a collaborator of Moore.
>
> Does not ring a bell, sorry.
>
I would rather understand what "FOO" or 'FOO' means but 'FOO is missing
a quote :P
> - anton

Greets, and THANK YOU!

--

7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
to weak you should be meek, and you should brainfuck stronger
https://github.com/rofl0r/chaos-pp

On Saturday, October 2, 2021 at 9:47:12 AM UTC-5, Anton Ertl wrote:
> Tom Harris <celep...@gmail.com> writes:

> Interestingly, Gforth has a recognizer that recognizes `WORD as the xt
> of WORD. I have not heard before about any other system that uses `

I like Albert's denotations ( re: LINA Forth ), simple and effective, but I don't like
it being used just to remove space. The program knows if ' FOO and 'FOO are the
same but I don't know if 'FOO is ticking a FOO or is a variable holding an xt .
I would never use it that way. But able to have ${FOO} for an environment variable
is great for having my code more in concert with BASH.
--
me

S Jack <sdwjack69@gmail.com> writes:
>The program knows if ' FOO and 'FOO are the
>same but I don't know if 'FOO is ticking a FOO or is a variable holding an xt .

That's why Gforth uses `FOO for the xt of FOO. The advantage over
' FOO is that `FOO compiles as a literal, whereas ' FOO is a call to '
followed by a call to FOO.

>But able to have ${FOO} for an environment variable
>is great for having my code more in concert with BASH.

Development Gforth has rec-env.fs (not loaded by default), which
allows you to write $FOO. E.g.:

$SHELL type \ outputs "/bin/bash"

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2021: https://euro.theforth.net/2021

Anton Ertl wrote:
> Phillip Eaton <pjeaton70@gmail.com> writes:
> @Getting people to use to formatting designed to get around ancient hardware restrictions is like to getting people to use monochrome Forth block source files when they can use a full screen colour text editor.
>
> It should not be when the "ancient hardware restriction" has still not
> been overcome, because it is our brain. Printers have known for
> centuries that lines should be limited to around 75 characters,
> because otherwise it becomes difficult to find the next line.

Yes, columns or 75 chars or so is a nice read. I'm using Sea Monkey on a
PC to respond to this message and it wraps for you when editing - nice!

> And as long as people use proper newsreaders, Usenet posters typically
> do the right thing and limit their lines to 70-75 characters. This
> works well on a newsreader sized to display 80 characters (to allow
> for a few indentation levels).

Many around the world don't have a PC, only
a mobile and on mine,
75 chars wrap like this. Where does one get
a proper newsreader
and provider, Google seems to be the easiest
option? 10-15 years
ago, all the UK ISPs I'd used dropped Usenet
and thus so did I
until Google came up with a way in via Google
Groups. Only
recently did I come across a free server
"aoie.org" that
I've plugged into Sea Monkey for c.l.f.

> You seem to think it's a good idea to post endless lines and let the
> newsreader do the wrapping. It's not. Usenet is not set up for this.

Not setup for this? The music industry wasn't setup to cope with kids
downloading MP3s like the contents were free, but the artists have moved
on regardless.

All of the above looks OK to me in Google reader and with Sea Monkey.

Yes, I have to shrink the Sea Monkey window to wrap my own long lines
comfortably, I'm OK with that, but the wrapped 75 char lines look crappy
on mobile.

I don't have access to a PC newsreader during office hours, so I use my
mobile.

> Quoting does not work (to demonstrate this, I have left your
> excessively long line, and used a non-standard quote character, so
> that Google will probably not work around the breakage it caused with
> the excessive lines), and it does not work well with pre-formatted
> text.

If you want people to take notice of your post, you'll make it easy to
read and in a format they'll understand i.e. proper quoting, removal of
old bits etc. For a quick comment, it's not such a big deal IMHO.

Yes, code formatting getting messed up is annoying, but someone with a
proper newsreader can always respond to another posts in the thread with
original formatting.

Discord works really nice with code, just put ``` before and after and
it displays in fixed space font. And you can paste in pictures.

> @I just wish Google would automatically concatenate the split lines, they look terrible when reading on my mobile phone, they get wrapped at about 60 columns in portrait and, in landscape, half the screen is taken up with cruft.
>
> Have you looked for a newsreader then that shows less cruft?

Yes and I haven't found any on Android that are as easy to get into as
Google Groups and I can put up with the GG downsides.

> It's funny that you complain about "ancient hardware limitations" when
> your problem is not-so-ancient hardware (and software) limitations.

I didn't complain about "ancient hardware limitations" at all.

I did complain about Google rendering of the sentences that it surely
must know are from Usenet, I think it could do a better job. (And do the
text wrapping!)

> - anton
Phil

On 4/10/2021 09:15, Phillip Eaton wrote:
> Anton Ertl wrote:
>> Phillip Eaton <pjeaton70@gmail.com> writes:
>> @Getting people to use to formatting designed to get around ancient hardware restrictions is like to getting people to use monochrome Forth block source files when they can use a full screen colour text editor.
>>
>> It should not be when the "ancient hardware restriction" has still not
>> been overcome, because it is our brain. Printers have known for
>> centuries that lines should be limited to around 75 characters,
>> because otherwise it becomes difficult to find the next line.
>
> Yes, columns or 75 chars or so is a nice read. I'm using Sea Monkey on a
> PC to respond to this message and it wraps for you when editing - nice!

When Windows came along they managed to convince us we were multi-tasking
and therefore more productive. It stood to reason that buying a 27" monitor
was a better investment than a 15". Let's not even go into cpu speeds as
an aid to productivity. Perhaps in retrospect 64x16 blocks for source
wasn't so bad after all - for, as we know, Forth is so productive that
everything can be done in less. Color in Forth - even better again :)