On Saturday, 31 July 2021 at 02:56:04 UTC+1, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> On Sunday, July 25, 2021 at 5:08:24 AM UTC-7, jpit...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Just for the fun of it
> > and as I had a bit of spare time
> > and as well wanted to know
> > if it is quick to do:
> >
> > I copied the whole thread here and converted it into a PDF.
> I would not trust anything that Juergen Pintaske produces.
> It seems very likely that he has edited this to make me appear to say things
> that I did not say. Juergen has a long history of twisting people's words
> to make them seem to be agreeing with him when they were not agreeing with him.
> There is no reason why he would want to distribute his own PDF except to edit it.
>
> Here is an example of him saying that I stated something I did not state:
> https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.forth/c/0IQudXjWoTw
>
> On Wednesday, July 21, 2021 at 11:59:58 PM UTC-7, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 21, 2021 at 2:31:29 AM UTC-7, jpit...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > And even regarding MFX the truth comes out slowly now.
> > >
> > > Testra exactly knew what they wanted as you state yourself - so you only implemented it.
> > > I now wonder, how much is actuallyy your work.
> > You are a liar!
> > I have said many times that I designed MFX as well as wrote it:
> >
> > On Tuesday, July 20, 2021 at 11:01:11 PM UTC-7, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> > > When I worked at Testra I was given the job of doing something that had never
> > > been done before, which is write an assembler for a VLIW processor. It was my
> > > idea for the assembler to do the out-of-ordering of the instructions. John Hart
> > > had said to make the assembler source-code have rows representing opcodes
> > > and columns representing fields in the opcodes that are executed in parallel
> > > (one clock cycle per opcode), and have the assembly-language programmer
> > > write his program in this two-dimensional manner --- humans can't figure this
> > > out in their head though --- humans think sequentially (one-dimensional).
>
> Here is another example:
> https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.forth/c/8Aj4BpLs7Cw
>
> On Sunday, July 11, 2021 at 1:53:08 PM UTC-7, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> > On Sunday, July 11, 2021 at 7:43:35 AM UTC-7, jpit...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, 11 July 2021 at 15:30:32 UTC+1, Ilya Tarasov wrote:
> > > > Yay! Where is my popcorn? :)
> > > >
> > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7XvA9gOCxQ
> > > You are completely right Ilya.
> > > Rather attack than knowing what they are talking about.
> > Juergen Pintaske is such a liar! lol
> > Here we have Ilya obviously not supporting Juergen, but instead laughing about
> > how this fight between Juergen Pintaske and Stephen Pelc becomes public
> > similar to a Mortal Kombat fantasy fight in front of a cheering audience.
> > Juergen twists this into making it seem as if Ilya is 100% supporting Juergen.

You really show your ugly character here.
I took the direct copy of this whole thread and PDFed it.
Prove me wrong then.
You just make everything up as it suits you - your usual behaviour.

And to post this very kind letter here I find DISGUSTING - well, just your personality.

It seems your brother is VEEEEEEERY different.

On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 1:43:39 AM UTC-7, johnro...@gmail.com wrote:
> When [Hugh] stopped by a few years ago,
> it was my impression he was working on a 4th processor similar to ours. I didn't mention that most companies
> would object to an ex employee using their IP. I actually hoped he could do something with it and brought up
> our FPGA development tool because feedback would help us refine it and might help him with his project.

This is Tom Hart impersonating John Hart.
I told John Hart in that meeting that my processor design was not directly derived from the MiniForth
and was significantly different. I am not stealing Testra's IP (intellectual property).
Tom Hart is trying to say that everything I design/write, for decades later, is stolen IP from Testra.
He is not giving me credit for any creativity. This is despite the fact that he himself made no
creative contribution to the MiniForth project --- he doesn't understand the concept of creativity.

I posted the description of my TOYF processor design here
(see the final message as most of the thread is about my MSP430 assembler):
https://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?t=21841
Anybody with a modicum of technical knowledge can see that this is not similar to the MiniForth.

On Saturday, 7 August 2021 at 04:18:36 UTC+1, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 1:43:39 AM UTC-7, johnro...@gmail.com wrote:
> > When [Hugh] stopped by a few years ago,
> > it was my impression he was working on a 4th processor similar to ours. I didn't mention that most companies
> > would object to an ex employee using their IP. I actually hoped he could do something with it and brought up
> > our FPGA development tool because feedback would help us refine it and might help him with his project.
> This is Tom Hart impersonating John Hart.
> I told John Hart in that meeting that my processor design was not directly derived from the MiniForth
> and was significantly different. I am not stealing Testra's IP (intellectual property).
> Tom Hart is trying to say that everything I design/write, for decades later, is stolen IP from Testra.
> He is not giving me credit for any creativity. This is despite the fact that he himself made no
> creative contribution to the MiniForth project --- he doesn't understand the concept of creativity.
>
> I posted the description of my TOYF processor design here
> (see the final message as most of the thread is about my MSP430 assembler):
> https://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?t=21841
> Anybody with a modicum of technical knowledge can see that this is not similar to the MiniForth.

Who cares about your design, as nobody can compare this anyway.

Testra is a professional company now for about a quarter of a century.

and you are
ranting
calling them liars and worse
calling everybody a lier who is not of your opinion
show your bad education.
GROW UP.
You should give up as you cannot win.
But this thread is now saved as PDF anyway, even if google closes this group again or forever.

Recently we had this thread:
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.forth/c/9cfYf9sletg

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 3:07:32 AM UTC-7, Jon Nicoll wrote:
> For reasons unconnected with Forth or this Usenet group, I was musing on the
> behaviour sometimes known as 'cutting off your nose to spite your face'.
>
> I came across this nice alternative way of thinking about it:
>
> "Valuing being right over being effective"

This is the path to slavery.
The obvious question is: "Effective for whom?"

Tom Hart is a liar.
I could be effective for Tom Hart by accepting his lies and never contradicting him.
This is what John Hart has been doing, starting when they were boys in the 1950s
and continuing until today. How well has this worked out?
Tom Hart owns two houses, and drives a monster truck.
He contributes almost nothing to Testra on a technical basis.
He is not a programmer or a hardware designer --- he fabricates and tests boards,
which is generally a low-paying support position --- not much of a contribution.
John Hart does all of the technical work, designing the MiniForth/RACE processor,
but he is living in poverty driving a car that appears to be 30 or 40 years old.
John Hart has been effective for Tom Hart, but not himself.
John Hart wasn't looking out for numero uno --- that is always a mistake.

Here we see the liar Tom Hart impersonating his weak-willed brother John:

On Thursday, July 22, 2021 at 1:03:21 PM UTC-7, johnro...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 2:37:54 PM UTC-7, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> clip
> > >
> > > Do not forget,
> > > they fired you as Testra stated somewhere here
> > MFX was written by an incompetent who got fired as a result --- this will never end.
> What was said:
> "Hugh is very intelligent, very knowledgeable about Forth,
> but is not really a team player."
> I don't know if the first part is still true, but it appears the second part still is.

John Hart is actually aware that I'm still very knowledgeable about Forth.
He has seen my novice-package.
> If he could get over himself and show some concern for others,
> he could be a valuable asset, instead of a loose cannon.

Tom Hart wants me to be a valuable asset to Testra --- effective for Tom Hart, not myself.
I don't want to be Tom Hart's slave though --- I have to look out for numero uno.
Anybody who is a "team player" is failing to look out for numero uno.

> Hugh wasn't fired but based on the hate filled emails he's been sending, he should have been.

Tom Hart is admitting that he is a liar --- he said in his email to Juergen Pintaske
that he had fired me.

> We are just finishing our third gen, 4th, FPGA processor, (32bit 50Mips 4Kluts) and could
> have used some help with the compiler Hugh wrote. When I talked to him a few
> years about it, he said he was working on his own forth IP and epressed no interest in ours
> or the tools we developed to accelerate FPGA designs that I offered to share with him.

Tom Hart continues to tell the lie that I wrote the interactive compiler, that was actually written
in MFX after I left (most likely a port of figForth and most likely written by Tom Hart).
The truth is that I wrote MFX which is the assembler, simulator and Forth cross-compiler.
I also wrote all of the general-purpose code, most of which was in assembly-language.
> It's dissapointing to see someone with talent who we gave an opportunity to do what he
> wanted, a chance to show what he could do, turn against us twent years later and blame
> us for something he could correct by looking at things from the perspective of others.

Tom Hart, in the 1990s, responded to a telephone request for a job reference
by saying "nothing" when asked what work I had done, and by saying that
I was: "not eligible for rehire." I heard this on the speaker phone.
Tom Hart was impersonating John Hart at the time and I thought that it was John Hart.

On Friday, August 6, 2021 at 11:43:07 PM UTC-7, jpit...@gmail.com wrote:
> You should give up as you cannot win.

I complained that Tom Hart was attacking me by telling lies about me and
flinging insults at me.
Tom Hart responded by attacking my brother by telling lies about him and
flinging insults at him --- apparently Tom Hart expected me to like that better.
I can't win against Tom Hart --- this is no depth of depravity that Tom Hart
won't sink to in his effort to drag me down.

I actually knew that Tom Hart was a liar starting on day one at Testra.
During my job interview the question of race came up and I said I was
part Spanish and part German, but was also 1/8 Native American.
John Hart told me that Tom Hart is Native American, and that money
can be made from this. He asked me if I wanted to claim to be
Native American and apply for money. I said that I would not do this.
I'm not going to pretend to be an Injun --- I don't even know what tribe
this was (it was southern Colorado, so most likely far-flung Ute).
I don't want to pretend to be a Native American when I am obviously
just your basic European-descent Caucasian. Pretending to be an Injun
would likely offend real Injuns, and they might murder me for it.
I noted at the time that John Hart did not claim to be Native American,
but only his brother Tom Hart made this claim, although they have the
same genes --- brothers of different races??? --- that is humorous!

I know a lot of Navajos who work as plumbers.
They are mildly amused when I tell them that I'm 1/8 Native American.
They would not be amused if I applied for money on this basis.
I can do some of their code-talking, which they find amusing (in the same way
that it is amusing to see a bear riding a bicycle) --- for the most part
they are happy to teach me their words --- one Navajo however told me
that White people trying to speak Navajo is stupid and annoying.
Certainly, White people trying to speak and act like Black people
is stupid and annoying, and this is common among young people these days.
I'm just code-talking for fun though --- I'm not trying to be a white Navajo.

The Navajo and Apache come from the same source, but they split apart
about 700 hundred years ago. There is a story about why they split apart,
but I won't go into that here --- it is not a politically-correct history.
Their languages are similar. One Navajo told me that he can understand
some Apache because a lot of the words are the same, but he said that
Apaches make clicking noises that cause them to "sound like aliens."
I thought it was humorous that that he would say this because, if I said
that Apaches sound like aliens, everybody would howl that I was racist.
In Hollywood movies, aliens make similar clicking noises --- this was
very likely done in imitation of the Apache --- so, the Apaches don't actually
sound like aliens, but rather Hollywood aliens sound like Apaches.
Nobody knows what aliens actually sound like because we haven't met any.

As a final word, let me just say: "shu-ki!"

Look, you are difficult to work with. Probably you wouldn't pass psychological HR test.
Settle you peronality as what you do for a living now? Are you on social care?

--
7-77-777
\|/
---
/|\

On 2021-09-25, Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@gmail.com> wrote:
> Recently we had this thread:
> https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.forth/c/9cfYf9sletg
>
> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 3:07:32 AM UTC-7, Jon Nicoll wrote:
>> For reasons unconnected with Forth or this Usenet group, I was musing on the
>> behaviour sometimes known as 'cutting off your nose to spite your face'.
>>
>> I came across this nice alternative way of thinking about it:
>>
>> "Valuing being right over being effective"
>
> This is the path to slavery.
> The obvious question is: "Effective for whom?"
>
> Tom Hart is a liar.
> I could be effective for Tom Hart by accepting his lies and never contradicting him.
> This is what John Hart has been doing, starting when they were boys in the 1950s
> and continuing until today. How well has this worked out?
> Tom Hart owns two houses, and drives a monster truck.
> He contributes almost nothing to Testra on a technical basis.
> He is not a programmer or a hardware designer --- he fabricates and tests boards,
> which is generally a low-paying support position --- not much of a contribution.
> John Hart does all of the technical work, designing the MiniForth/RACE processor,
> but he is living in poverty driving a car that appears to be 30 or 40 years old.
> John Hart has been effective for Tom Hart, but not himself.
> John Hart wasn't looking out for numero uno --- that is always a mistake.
>
> Here we see the liar Tom Hart impersonating his weak-willed brother John:
>
> On Thursday, July 22, 2021 at 1:03:21 PM UTC-7, johnro...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 2:37:54 PM UTC-7, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
>> clip
>> > >
>> > > Do not forget,
>> > > they fired you as Testra stated somewhere here
>> > MFX was written by an incompetent who got fired as a result --- this will never end.
>> What was said:
>> "Hugh is very intelligent, very knowledgeable about Forth,
>> but is not really a team player."
>> I don't know if the first part is still true, but it appears the second part still is.
>
> John Hart is actually aware that I'm still very knowledgeable about Forth.
> He has seen my novice-package.
>
>> If he could get over himself and show some concern for others,
>> he could be a valuable asset, instead of a loose cannon.
>
> Tom Hart wants me to be a valuable asset to Testra --- effective for Tom Hart, not myself.
> I don't want to be Tom Hart's slave though --- I have to look out for numero uno.
> Anybody who is a "team player" is failing to look out for numero uno.
>
>> Hugh wasn't fired but based on the hate filled emails he's been sending, he should have been.
>
> Tom Hart is admitting that he is a liar --- he said in his email to Juergen Pintaske
> that he had fired me.
>
>> We are just finishing our third gen, 4th, FPGA processor, (32bit 50Mips 4Kluts) and could
>> have used some help with the compiler Hugh wrote. When I talked to him a few
>> years about it, he said he was working on his own forth IP and epressed no interest in ours
>> or the tools we developed to accelerate FPGA designs that I offered to share with him.
>
> Tom Hart continues to tell the lie that I wrote the interactive compiler, that was actually written
> in MFX after I left (most likely a port of figForth and most likely written by Tom Hart).
> The truth is that I wrote MFX which is the assembler, simulator and Forth cross-compiler.
> I also wrote all of the general-purpose code, most of which was in assembly-language.
>
>> It's dissapointing to see someone with talent who we gave an opportunity to do what he
>> wanted, a chance to show what he could do, turn against us twent years later and blame
>> us for something he could correct by looking at things from the perspective of others.
>
> Tom Hart, in the 1990s, responded to a telephone request for a job reference
> by saying "nothing" when asked what work I had done, and by saying that
> I was: "not eligible for rehire." I heard this on the speaker phone.
> Tom Hart was impersonating John Hart at the time and I thought that it was John Hart.
>
> On Friday, August 6, 2021 at 11:43:07 PM UTC-7, jpit...@gmail.com wrote:
>> You should give up as you cannot win.
>
> I complained that Tom Hart was attacking me by telling lies about me and
> flinging insults at me.
> Tom Hart responded by attacking my brother by telling lies about him and
> flinging insults at him --- apparently Tom Hart expected me to like that better.
> I can't win against Tom Hart --- this is no depth of depravity that Tom Hart
> won't sink to in his effort to drag me down.
>
> I actually knew that Tom Hart was a liar starting on day one at Testra.
> During my job interview the question of race came up and I said I was
> part Spanish and part German, but was also 1/8 Native American.
> John Hart told me that Tom Hart is Native American, and that money
> can be made from this. He asked me if I wanted to claim to be
> Native American and apply for money. I said that I would not do this.
> I'm not going to pretend to be an Injun --- I don't even know what tribe
> this was (it was southern Colorado, so most likely far-flung Ute).
> I don't want to pretend to be a Native American when I am obviously
> just your basic European-descent Caucasian. Pretending to be an Injun
> would likely offend real Injuns, and they might murder me for it.
> I noted at the time that John Hart did not claim to be Native American,
> but only his brother Tom Hart made this claim, although they have the
> same genes --- brothers of different races??? --- that is humorous!
>
> I know a lot of Navajos who work as plumbers.
> They are mildly amused when I tell them that I'm 1/8 Native American.
> They would not be amused if I applied for money on this basis.
> I can do some of their code-talking, which they find amusing (in the same way
> that it is amusing to see a bear riding a bicycle) --- for the most part
> they are happy to teach me their words --- one Navajo however told me
> that White people trying to speak Navajo is stupid and annoying.
> Certainly, White people trying to speak and act like Black people
> is stupid and annoying, and this is common among young people these days.
> I'm just code-talking for fun though --- I'm not trying to be a white Navajo.
>
> The Navajo and Apache come from the same source, but they split apart
> about 700 hundred years ago. There is a story about why they split apart,
> but I won't go into that here --- it is not a politically-correct history.
> Their languages are similar. One Navajo told me that he can understand
> some Apache because a lot of the words are the same, but he said that
> Apaches make clicking noises that cause them to "sound like aliens."
> I thought it was humorous that that he would say this because, if I said
> that Apaches sound like aliens, everybody would howl that I was racist.
> In Hollywood movies, aliens make similar clicking noises --- this was
> very likely done in imitation of the Apache --- so, the Apaches don't actually
> sound like aliens, but rather Hollywood aliens sound like Apaches.
> Nobody knows what aliens actually sound like because we haven't met any.
>
> As a final word, let me just say: "shu-ki!"

--
Evil Sinner!

On 25/09/2021 13:09, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> Recently we had this thread:
> https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.forth/c/9cfYf9sletg
>
> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 3:07:32 AM UTC-7, Jon Nicoll wrote:
>> For reasons unconnected with Forth or this Usenet group, I was musing on the
>> behaviour sometimes known as 'cutting off your nose to spite your face'.
>>
>> I came across this nice alternative way of thinking about it:
>>
>> "Valuing being right over being effective"
>
> This is the path to slavery.
> The obvious question is: "Effective for whom?"
>
> Tom Hart is a liar.
> I could be effective for Tom Hart by accepting his lies and never contradicting him.
> ...
> I actually knew that Tom Hart was a liar starting on day one at Testra.

It's not necessary to make the OP's point with a personal example.

On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 1:43:39 AM UTC-7, johnro...@gmail.com wrote:
> His brother worked for us after he left on the HPGL converter, not Hugh. When he complained about it,
> I explained that Tom was confused about that, and thought that would be the end of it.

Tom Hart, here impersonating his brother John, is attacking my brother who was not
involved in any of this. Tom Hart is also lying when he says that this was explained to me
during my visit two years ago --- this implausible story is a recent fabrication.

Tom Hart's best friend, Juergen Pintaske, advocates physically attacking
the family members of one's perceived enemies:

On Friday, December 10, 2021 at 4:59:04 AM UTC-7, jpit...@gmail.com wrote:
> But people are now allowed via systems like here to dump as much shit as they like
>
> It should be ok as well then
> to "physically" dump as much of the shit they supplied here physically on them as well.
> Which would give some satisfaction - and at least be a stink.
> It could be dumped as well on their wives or children. Or other relatives, why not.
> It would show some responsibility.
>
> For the rest of us who behave like a part of a community

Nobody wants to be a member of Tom Hart's community! Tom Hart and Juergen Pintaske
deserve each other --- they can be a community of two.

On Saturday, 11 December 2021 at 19:28:52 UTC, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 1:43:39 AM UTC-7, johnro...@gmail.com wrote:
> > His brother worked for us after he left on the HPGL converter, not Hugh. When he complained about it,
> > I explained that Tom was confused about that, and thought that would be the end of it.
>
> Tom Hart, here impersonating his brother John, is attacking my brother who was not
> involved in any of this. Tom Hart is also lying when he says that this was explained to me
> during my visit two years ago --- this implausible story is a recent fabrication.
>
> Tom Hart's best friend, Juergen Pintaske, advocates physically attacking
> the family members of one's perceived enemies:
>
> On Friday, December 10, 2021 at 4:59:04 AM UTC-7, jpit...@gmail.com wrote:
> > But people are now allowed via systems like here to dump as much shit as they like
> >
> > It should be ok as well then
> > to "physically" dump as much of the shit they supplied here physically on them as well.
> > Which would give some satisfaction - and at least be a stink.
> > It could be dumped as well on their wives or children. Or other relatives, why not.
> > It would show some responsibility.
> >
> > For the rest of us who behave like a part of a community
>
> Nobody wants to be a member of Tom Hart's community! Tom Hart and Juergen Pintaske
> deserve each other --- they can be a community of two.

Typical HUGH AGUILAR BULLSHIT.

I would not dare to call either of them friends, We do not know each other well enough.
We had very few few discussions on the phone and email exchanges ove the last 6 years.

As of ALL OF THE SHIT that Hugh produces,
I found it fair to start this thread and ask Testra for a statement.
When this was kindly sent by Testra, everybody stared to be a lier.

All documented in this thread. Or read it as PDF.

As everyboy is a lier for Hugh,
by definition ( everybody) he is included as a lier.
Probably one with the highest level of performance.

Le dimanche 12 décembre 2021 à 09 h 56 min 54 s UTC+1, jpit...@gmail.com a écrit :
> On Saturday, 11 December 2021 at 19:28:52 UTC, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> > On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 1:43:39 AM UTC-7, johnro...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > His brother worked for us after he left on the HPGL converter, not Hugh. When he complained about it,
> > > I explained that Tom was confused about that, and thought that would be the end of it.
> >
> > Tom Hart, here impersonating his brother John, is attacking my brother who was not
> > involved in any of this. Tom Hart is also lying when he says that this was explained to me
> > during my visit two years ago --- this implausible story is a recent fabrication.
> >
> > Tom Hart's best friend, Juergen Pintaske, advocates physically attacking
> > the family members of one's perceived enemies:
> >
> > On Friday, December 10, 2021 at 4:59:04 AM UTC-7, jpit...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > But people are now allowed via systems like here to dump as much shit as they like
> > >
> > > It should be ok as well then
> > > to "physically" dump as much of the shit they supplied here physically on them as well.
> > > Which would give some satisfaction - and at least be a stink.
> > > It could be dumped as well on their wives or children. Or other relatives, why not.
> > > It would show some responsibility.
> > >
> > > For the rest of us who behave like a part of a community
> >
> > Nobody wants to be a member of Tom Hart's community! Tom Hart and Juergen Pintaske
> > deserve each other --- they can be a community of two.
> Typical HUGH AGUILAR BULLSHIT.
>
> I would not dare to call either of them friends, We do not know each other well enough.
> We had very few few discussions on the phone and email exchanges ove the last 6 years.
>
> As of ALL OF THE SHIT that Hugh produces,
> I found it fair to start this thread and ask Testra for a statement.
> When this was kindly sent by Testra, everybody stared to be a lier.
>
> All documented in this thread. Or read it as PDF.
>
> As everyboy is a lier for Hugh,
> by definition ( everybody) he is included as a lier.
> Probably one with the highest level of performance.
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On Sunday, 12 December 2021 at 08:56:54 UTC, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> On Saturday, 11 December 2021 at 19:28:52 UTC, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> > On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 1:43:39 AM UTC-7, johnro...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > His brother worked for us after he left on the HPGL converter, not Hugh. When he complained about it,
> > > I explained that Tom was confused about that, and thought that would be the end of it.
> >
> > Tom Hart, here impersonating his brother John, is attacking my brother who was not
> > involved in any of this. Tom Hart is also lying when he says that this was explained to me
> > during my visit two years ago --- this implausible story is a recent fabrication.
> >
> > Tom Hart's best friend, Juergen Pintaske, advocates physically attacking
> > the family members of one's perceived enemies:
> >
> > On Friday, December 10, 2021 at 4:59:04 AM UTC-7, jpit...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > But people are now allowed via systems like here to dump as much shit as they like
> > >
> > > It should be ok as well then
> > > to "physically" dump as much of the shit they supplied here physically on them as well.
> > > Which would give some satisfaction - and at least be a stink.
> > > It could be dumped as well on their wives or children. Or other relatives, why not.
> > > It would show some responsibility.
> > >
> > > For the rest of us who behave like a part of a community
> >
> > Nobody wants to be a member of Tom Hart's community! Tom Hart and Juergen Pintaske
> > deserve each other --- they can be a community of two.
> Typical HUGH AGUILAR BULLSHIT.
>
> I would not dare to call either of them friends, We do not know each other well enough.
> We had very few few discussions on the phone and email exchanges ove the last 6 years.
>
> As of ALL OF THE SHIT that Hugh produces,
> I found it fair to start this thread and ask Testra for a statement.
> When this was kindly sent by Testra, everybody stared to be a lier.
>
> All documented in this thread. Or read it as PDF.
>
> As everyboy is a lier for Hugh,
> by definition ( everybody) he is included as a lier.
> Probably one with the highest level of performance.

In another thread this one her was used as basis.
This made me look again here after a long time.

This Thread I started 4 years ago.

And now we have achieved a special,
and I unfortunately missed the moment to take a screen print at 4444:
It is 4445 now -
You cannot get closer to fours.
Have a nice day,
and May The Fours Be With You.

On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 08:18:56 UTC+1, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> On Sunday, 12 December 2021 at 08:56:54 UTC, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> > On Saturday, 11 December 2021 at 19:28:52 UTC, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> > > On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 1:43:39 AM UTC-7, johnro...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > His brother worked for us after he left on the HPGL converter, not Hugh. When he complained about it,
> > > > I explained that Tom was confused about that, and thought that would be the end of it.
> > >
> > > Tom Hart, here impersonating his brother John, is attacking my brother who was not
> > > involved in any of this. Tom Hart is also lying when he says that this was explained to me
> > > during my visit two years ago --- this implausible story is a recent fabrication.
> > >
> > > Tom Hart's best friend, Juergen Pintaske, advocates physically attacking
> > > the family members of one's perceived enemies:
> > >
> > > On Friday, December 10, 2021 at 4:59:04 AM UTC-7, jpit...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > But people are now allowed via systems like here to dump as much shit as they like
> > > >
> > > > It should be ok as well then
> > > > to "physically" dump as much of the shit they supplied here physically on them as well.
> > > > Which would give some satisfaction - and at least be a stink.
> > > > It could be dumped as well on their wives or children. Or other relatives, why not.
> > > > It would show some responsibility.
> > > >
> > > > For the rest of us who behave like a part of a community
> > >
> > > Nobody wants to be a member of Tom Hart's community! Tom Hart and Juergen Pintaske
> > > deserve each other --- they can be a community of two.
> > Typical HUGH AGUILAR BULLSHIT.
> >
> > I would not dare to call either of them friends, We do not know each other well enough.
> > We had very few few discussions on the phone and email exchanges ove the last 6 years.
> >
> > As of ALL OF THE SHIT that Hugh produces,
> > I found it fair to start this thread and ask Testra for a statement.
> > When this was kindly sent by Testra, everybody stared to be a lier.
> >
> > All documented in this thread. Or read it as PDF.
> >
> > As everyboy is a lier for Hugh,
> > by definition ( everybody) he is included as a lier.
> > Probably one with the highest level of performance.
> In another thread this one her was used as basis.
> This made me look again here after a long time.
>
> This Thread I started 4 years ago.
>
> And now we have achieved a special,
> and I unfortunately missed the moment to take a screen print at 4444:
> It is 4445 now -
> You cannot get closer to fours.
> Have a nice day,
> and May The Fours Be With You.

UUUUPS - typo and before my first coffee ...
We are at 4405 - but will be there at 4444 soon anyway ...

On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 08:22:16 UTC+1, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 08:18:56 UTC+1, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> > On Sunday, 12 December 2021 at 08:56:54 UTC, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> > > On Saturday, 11 December 2021 at 19:28:52 UTC, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> > > > On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 1:43:39 AM UTC-7, johnro...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > His brother worked for us after he left on the HPGL converter, not Hugh. When he complained about it,
> > > > > I explained that Tom was confused about that, and thought that would be the end of it.
> > > >
> > > > Tom Hart, here impersonating his brother John, is attacking my brother who was not
> > > > involved in any of this. Tom Hart is also lying when he says that this was explained to me
> > > > during my visit two years ago --- this implausible story is a recent fabrication.
> > > >
> > > > Tom Hart's best friend, Juergen Pintaske, advocates physically attacking
> > > > the family members of one's perceived enemies:
> > > >
> > > > On Friday, December 10, 2021 at 4:59:04 AM UTC-7, jpit...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > But people are now allowed via systems like here to dump as much shit as they like
> > > > >
> > > > > It should be ok as well then
> > > > > to "physically" dump as much of the shit they supplied here physically on them as well.
> > > > > Which would give some satisfaction - and at least be a stink.
> > > > > It could be dumped as well on their wives or children. Or other relatives, why not.
> > > > > It would show some responsibility.
> > > > >
> > > > > For the rest of us who behave like a part of a community
> > > >
> > > > Nobody wants to be a member of Tom Hart's community! Tom Hart and Juergen Pintaske
> > > > deserve each other --- they can be a community of two.
> > > Typical HUGH AGUILAR BULLSHIT.
> > >
> > > I would not dare to call either of them friends, We do not know each other well enough.
> > > We had very few few discussions on the phone and email exchanges ove the last 6 years.
> > >
> > > As of ALL OF THE SHIT that Hugh produces,
> > > I found it fair to start this thread and ask Testra for a statement.
> > > When this was kindly sent by Testra, everybody stared to be a lier.
> > >
> > > All documented in this thread. Or read it as PDF.
> > >
> > > As everyboy is a lier for Hugh,
> > > by definition ( everybody) he is included as a lier.
> > > Probably one with the highest level of performance.
> > In another thread this one her was used as basis.
> > This made me look again here after a long time.
> >
> > This Thread I started 4 years ago.
> >
> > And now we have achieved a special,
> > and I unfortunately missed the moment to take a screen print at 4444:
> > It is 4445 now -
> > You cannot get closer to fours.
> > Have a nice day,
> > and May The Fours Be With You.
> UUUUPS - typo and before my first coffee ...
> We are at 4405 - but will be there at 4444 soon anyway ...

We are getting close to 4444, as it is 4424 now, great

On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 09:29:12 UTC+1, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 08:22:16 UTC+1, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> > On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 08:18:56 UTC+1, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> > > On Sunday, 12 December 2021 at 08:56:54 UTC, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, 11 December 2021 at 19:28:52 UTC, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 1:43:39 AM UTC-7, johnro...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > His brother worked for us after he left on the HPGL converter, not Hugh. When he complained about it,
> > > > > > I explained that Tom was confused about that, and thought that would be the end of it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tom Hart, here impersonating his brother John, is attacking my brother who was not
> > > > > involved in any of this. Tom Hart is also lying when he says that this was explained to me
> > > > > during my visit two years ago --- this implausible story is a recent fabrication.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tom Hart's best friend, Juergen Pintaske, advocates physically attacking
> > > > > the family members of one's perceived enemies:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Friday, December 10, 2021 at 4:59:04 AM UTC-7, jpit...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > But people are now allowed via systems like here to dump as much shit as they like
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It should be ok as well then
> > > > > > to "physically" dump as much of the shit they supplied here physically on them as well.
> > > > > > Which would give some satisfaction - and at least be a stink.
> > > > > > It could be dumped as well on their wives or children. Or other relatives, why not.
> > > > > > It would show some responsibility.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For the rest of us who behave like a part of a community
> > > > >
> > > > > Nobody wants to be a member of Tom Hart's community! Tom Hart and Juergen Pintaske
> > > > > deserve each other --- they can be a community of two.
> > > > Typical HUGH AGUILAR BULLSHIT.
> > > >
> > > > I would not dare to call either of them friends, We do not know each other well enough.
> > > > We had very few few discussions on the phone and email exchanges ove the last 6 years.
> > > >
> > > > As of ALL OF THE SHIT that Hugh produces,
> > > > I found it fair to start this thread and ask Testra for a statement.
> > > > When this was kindly sent by Testra, everybody stared to be a lier.
> > > >
> > > > All documented in this thread. Or read it as PDF.
> > > >
> > > > As everyboy is a lier for Hugh,
> > > > by definition ( everybody) he is included as a lier.
> > > > Probably one with the highest level of performance.
> > > In another thread this one her was used as basis.
> > > This made me look again here after a long time.
> > >
> > > This Thread I started 4 years ago.
> > >
> > > And now we have achieved a special,
> > > and I unfortunately missed the moment to take a screen print at 4444:
> > > It is 4445 now -
> > > You cannot get closer to fours.
> > > Have a nice day,
> > > and May The Fours Be With You.
> > UUUUPS - typo and before my first coffee ...
> > We are at 4405 - but will be there at 4444 soon anyway ...
> We are getting close to 4444, as it is 4424 now, great

There seems to be some activity here.

We made the 4444 views,
still in the 4th month of this year.

May the Fours be with you.
And next soon
May the Forth Be With You

On Wednesday, June 16, 2021 at 8:27:07 PM UTC+2, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> In other words, Hugh must always see himself as the "King of the Hill",
> as royalty, as perfect, and in total control, in regards to all things
> Forth. All conflict with Hugh shall be repressed, suppressed, and
> oppressed, for Hugh is the King! All hail mighty Hugh!
That's true. I can remember a discussion where it was something about
"experts". https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.forth/c/GOPs3a_OtJk/m/DQBjLUJ0BwAJ

The point that makes him *really* mad is that I neither care about labels nor
value being the "biggest ape on the hill". The only metric I find useful is what I
can do with what I got upstairs.

Since he is wired completely differently (he is actually *begging* for validation)
it intensely irritates him when somebody is not racing him or giving him kudos
for work he finds extremely important and valuable.

It is what it is.. What I do value Hugh for is that he's actually written Forth code -
so that alone IMHO justifies him being here - contrary to some others my lawyer
told me not to engage with when it can be avoided.

c.l.f has been not the most pleasant group on Usenet for years (actually, we're
the laughing stock of comp.lang.* since we talk a *lot* about our technology
without actually using it), but I've gotten used to all the infighting.

Hans Bezemer

On 25/09/2023 8:37 pm, Hans Bezemer wrote:
>
> c.l.f has been not the most pleasant group on Usenet for years (actually, we're
> the laughing stock of comp.lang.* since we talk a *lot* about our technology
> without actually using it), but I've gotten used to all the infighting.

Here's a thread from 30 years ago. Chastising c.l.f. seems to have been
as popular then as now :)

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.forth/c/HD-MCTas1Nc/m/cEP8stnQLfAJ

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 5:41:52 AM UTC+2, dxf wrote:
> > c.l.f has been not the most pleasant group on Usenet for years (actually, we're
> > the laughing stock of comp.lang.* since we talk a *lot* about our technology
> > without actually using it), but I've gotten used to all the infighting.
> Here's a thread from 30 years ago. Chastising c.l.f. seems to have been
> as popular then as now :)

Well, it is true, isn't it. Some of the longest threads here have everything to do with
bashing persons or have nothing to do with Forth itself (and yes, in the latter category
I'm also guilty as charged).

I rarely see newbies here (Which in a sense is understandable, because Forth has an
incredibly steep learning curve - so they quit quite quickly). It's rare to see that a newbie
is taking under the wings of a more senior programmer - gee, I was lucky.

We're still fighting wars, sometimes on the most basics of facilities - like strings, objects
or locals.

You rarely see full application - unless in the rare hardware related department. Source
code is a big no no at all in general. From time to time I still post code - but I can't say it's
an enjoyable experience. To give a few examples:

- A tiny dynamic strings package quickly ended up in a LONG discussion whether COMUS
words that have been with us for 30 years or more are "general enough for use in code";
- A little dabbling with ellipse circumference code ended up in a discussion whether FSQRT
is expensive.

Now - I don't need a repetition of those discussions here. We've covered that. We've been there.
But what would be more useful is:

"Thanks - that might be useful!";
"If you did it that way, I'd be more compact and even faster.";
"Here is a LOCALS version. It's even more compact.";
"There is an even faster algorithm. Here's the link."

Now, I'm not exclusively posting here. There is much more useful commenting on e.g.
Rosetta Code. Several times I got extremely smart and useful comment there. People on
comp.lang.c are very responsive and helpful. That's what makes a forum viable in the long
run IMHO.

I also have to defend the few people here that are STILL posting their code and sometimes
have their guts ripped out undeserved. I have off-clf worked with them and they are very
nice, helpful and talented people who really try to contribute. I don't know why they're still
taking all that abuse. And note - I'm a quirky individual who created and maintains a quirky
compiler and tends to write quirky code. But we seem to get along just fine..

Do I think c.l.f. will change? No, I think it's in the genes. On the other side, I think it's useful
to be confronted with your mirror image once in a while.

Hans

On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 01:35:56 -0700 (PDT)
Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 5:41:52 AM UTC+2, dxf wrote:
> > > c.l.f has been not the most pleasant group on Usenet for years (actually, we're

[snip summary of things wrong with this NG]
>
> Now, I'm not exclusively posting here. There is much more useful commenting on e.g.
> Rosetta Code. Several times I got extremely smart and useful comment there. People on
> comp.lang.c are very responsive and helpful. That's what makes a forum viable in the long
> run IMHO.

I'm no C programmer, (nor even much of a Forth one) but I've heard of some
who got a right roasting in clc, back some years ago - seems some compiler
writers decided "undefined behaviour" meant they could mess up the
intentions of a coder with delight.

[]

>
> Do I think c.l.f. will change? No, I think it's in the genes. On the other side, I think it's useful
> to be confronted with your mirror image once in a while.
>
> Hans
>
>
>

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 5:37:20 AM UTC-5, Hans Bezemer wrote:
> c.l.f has been not the most pleasant group on Usenet for years (actually, we're
> the laughing stock of comp.lang.* since we talk a *lot* about our technology
> without actually using it), but I've gotten used to all the infighting.

This group isn't so bad.
The first news group, Philosophy, that I visited was nothing
but pure muck slinging by a core half dozen clowns. They were
trying to make it into an art form but none were close to an
Alexander Pope so it wasn't even entertaining.
(Cortes on return from his conquest took all the loot for
himself and his small inner circle. His men retaliated by
painting graffiti on his walls, in verse. These were common
soldiers.)
--
me

In article <20230926103830.cb69a2ff5b91dbc09825bc4f@127.0.0.1>,
Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
<SNIP>
>I'm no C programmer, (nor even much of a Forth one) but I've heard of some
>who got a right roasting in clc, back some years ago - seems some compiler
>writers decided "undefined behaviour" meant they could mess up the
>intentions of a coder with delight.

And they are. However the correct interpretation is that if a programmer
does not make its intentions clear, the compiler builder could go
out of its way to find that situation out, but they don't.
A C++ compiler is sufficiently complicated that this is not doable
anymore. One of the way out is to simply forbid "undefined behaviour",
meaning that in all circumstances the compiler generates a program
that behaves the same in all situations.
Actually this means that *all* compilers force the program to behave
the same on *all* systems. The industry is not willing to pay the
price for that.

Hugh
--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

On 26/09/2023 6:35 pm, Hans Bezemer wrote:
> ...
> I rarely see newbies here (Which in a sense is understandable, because Forth has an
> incredibly steep learning curve - so they quit quite quickly). It's rare to see that a newbie
> is taking under the wings of a more senior programmer - gee, I was lucky.

I've noted a good amount of newbie activity on retro forums. Everything from
sharing info about forth resources to showing off their latest forth programmed
gadget. Some hold down day jobs as programmers. If newbies aren't coming to
c.l.f. it could be as simple as they don't need us.

On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 4:00:57 AM UTC-5, dxf wrote:

> I've noted a good amount of newbie activity on retro forums. Everything from

If I knew nothing of Forth, didn't know any better and
stumbled into this group, I would be out of here very
quickly. Not because of the bickering of silly people, but
because of the primary subject matter discussed here,
compliance and nazi coding. However, important it is to
the professionals and wantabes, it ain't of general
programming interest and makes Forth look difficult and
problematic.
Fig provided a nice small sufficient program to work with
and published Forth Dimensions that provided code bits,
ideas and news that fostered interest, very little of which
means anything to today's group here. So yes, retro is
a draw back when Forth was fun.
--
me

On Wed, 27 Sep 2023 07:04:12 -0700 (PDT)
S Jack <sdwjack69@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 4:00:57 AM UTC-5, dxf wrote:
>
> > I've noted a good amount of newbie activity on retro forums. Everything from
>
> If I knew nothing of Forth, didn't know any better and
> stumbled into this group, I would be out of here very
> quickly. Not because of the bickering of silly people, but
> because of the primary subject matter discussed here,
> compliance and nazi coding. However, important it is to
> the professionals and wantabes, it ain't of general
> programming interest and makes Forth look difficult and
> problematic.
> Fig provided a nice small sufficient program to work with
> and published Forth Dimensions that provided code bits,
> ideas and news that fostered interest, very little of which
> means anything to today's group here. So yes, retro is
> a draw back when Forth was fun.

Maybe. To others it looks as if the language is stuck in
the 80's.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

> So yes, retro is a draw back when Forth was fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUbxFeqRZwI

On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 11:00:12 AM UTC-5, Zbig wrote:
> > So yes, retro is a draw back when Forth was fun.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUbxFeqRZwI

https://youtu.be/8elAi-7G0OE?si=0gHUJ5XoYW75xNZk

> > > So yes, retro is a draw back when Forth was fun.
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUbxFeqRZwI
> https://youtu.be/8elAi-7G0OE?si=0gHUJ5XoYW75xNZk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb-KkVNEbw8