Yeah, they talk about Forth being write only, but this one takes the cake. You might be able to figure out what a program does, but good luck figuring out how to *write* a program.

Malbolge

Yeah, I just said it out loud too!

It has some commonality with Forth. It uses a virtual machine, but with no stack. It is a MISC, for sure. There are only eight instructions with fixed operands, no fields.

I'll let you read about the rest of the virtual machine and the language.

They said it took two years to generate the first program...

https://esolangs.org/wiki/Malbolge

Maybe I'll implement the VM in an FPGA. Give Forth a run for the money. It's got to be a small implementation. Oh, did I mention it uses trinary data representation? lol

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

gnuarm.del...@gmail.com schrieb am Samstag, 26. Februar 2022 um 05:47:09 UTC+1:
> Yeah, they talk about Forth being write only, but this one takes the cake. You might be able to figure out what a program does, but good luck figuring out how to *write* a program.
>
> Malbolge
>
> Yeah, I just said it out loud too!
>
> It has some commonality with Forth. It uses a virtual machine, but with no stack. It is a MISC, for sure. There are only eight instructions with fixed operands, no fields.
>
> I'll let you read about the rest of the virtual machine and the language.
>
> They said it took two years to generate the first program...
>
> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Malbolge
>
> Maybe I'll implement the VM in an FPGA. Give Forth a run for the money. It's got to be a small implementation. Oh, did I mention it uses trinary data representation? lol
>

Nice. You just need a decent compiler.

Ternary logic has its applications! SQL for example. Or higher-level control systems
that have to deal with erroneous measured signals.

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 10:07:54 AM UTC+1, minf...@arcor.de wrote:
> gnuarm.del...@gmail.com schrieb am Samstag, 26. Februar 2022 um 05:47:09 UTC+1:
> > Yeah, they talk about Forth being write only, but this one takes the cake.
>> You might be able to figure out what a program does, but good luck figuring
>> out how to *write* a program.
> >
> > Malbolge
[..]
> > Maybe I'll implement the VM in an FPGA. Give Forth a run for the money.
>> It's got to be a small implementation. Oh, did I mention it uses trinary data representation? lol
> >
> Nice. You just need a decent compiler.

Malbolge does not intentionally try to be easy to implement in hardware.
Its basic instructions are designed to make programs almost [*] impossible
to *write.* Each instruction is modified to another one right after it executes
(with an interesting twist when the operation is a jump).

[*] I'm sure one could add extra transformations to make it even more difficult.
However, it probably becomes impossible to then prove that there is *a way*
to write a functioning program.

I have no problem with a language being difficult when it brings something
to the table, but I do draw the line when the explicit point is to prevent that
from happening.

-marcel

On Saturday, 26 February 2022 at 04:47:09 UTC, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> Yeah, they talk about Forth being write only, but this one takes the cake. You might be able to figure out what a program does, but good luck figuring out how to *write* a program.
>
> Malbolge
>
> Yeah, I just said it out loud too!
>
> It has some commonality with Forth. It uses a virtual machine, but with no stack. It is a MISC, for sure. There are only eight instructions with fixed operands, no fields.
>
> I'll let you read about the rest of the virtual machine and the language.
>
> They said it took two years to generate the first program...
>
> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Malbolge
>
> Maybe I'll implement the VM in an FPGA. Give Forth a run for the money. It's got to be a small implementation. Oh, did I mention it uses trinary data representation? lol
>
> --
>
> Rick C.
>
> - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
> - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

I think you might find Osgood's DUP and Oortermerssen's FALSE interesting, if you havent come across them.

There's even a version of dup in gforth if you want to try it out.

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:56:40 PM UTC+10, Marcel Hendrix wrote:
> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 10:07:54 AM UTC+1, minf...@arcor.de wrote:
> > gnuarm.del...@gmail.com schrieb am Samstag, 26. Februar 2022 um 05:47:09 UTC+1:
> > > Yeah, they talk about Forth being write only, but this one takes the cake.
> >> You might be able to figure out what a program does, but good luck figuring
> >> out how to *write* a program.
> > >
> > > Malbolge
> [..]
> > > Maybe I'll implement the VM in an FPGA. Give Forth a run for the money.
> >> It's got to be a small implementation. Oh, did I mention it uses trinary data representation? lol
> > >
> > Nice. You just need a decent compiler.
> Malbolge does not intentionally try to be easy to implement in hardware.
> Its basic instructions are designed to make programs almost [*] impossible
> to *write.* Each instruction is modified to another one right after it executes
> (with an interesting twist when the operation is a jump).
>
> [*] I'm sure one could add extra transformations to make it even more difficult.
> However, it probably becomes impossible to then prove that there is *a way*
> to write a functioning program.
>
> I have no problem with a language being difficult when it brings something
> to the table, but I do draw the line when the explicit point is to prevent that
> from happening.
>
> -marcel

Hmm. What about the easiest English programming language, ASCII? You require no instructions to write Hello World, and you can use a special code to access instructions. Very handy at strings. :)

We can use misc stack machine instructions to be accessed by the special code.

Very suitable for an AI interface. Say, hello world, if you are alive, otherwise play dead. Works every time!

It's also one of the only languages where programs are functionally correct without using the instruction set.

:)

April 1st is so far away.

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 1:13:41 PM UTC-5, Wayne morellini wrote:
> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:56:40 PM UTC+10, Marcel Hendrix wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 10:07:54 AM UTC+1, minf...@arcor.de wrote:
> > > gnuarm.del...@gmail.com schrieb am Samstag, 26. Februar 2022 um 05:47:09 UTC+1:
> > > > Yeah, they talk about Forth being write only, but this one takes the cake.
> > >> You might be able to figure out what a program does, but good luck figuring
> > >> out how to *write* a program.
> > > >
> > > > Malbolge
> > [..]
> > > > Maybe I'll implement the VM in an FPGA. Give Forth a run for the money.
> > >> It's got to be a small implementation. Oh, did I mention it uses trinary data representation? lol
> > > >
> > > Nice. You just need a decent compiler.
> > Malbolge does not intentionally try to be easy to implement in hardware.
> > Its basic instructions are designed to make programs almost [*] impossible
> > to *write.* Each instruction is modified to another one right after it executes
> > (with an interesting twist when the operation is a jump).
> >
> > [*] I'm sure one could add extra transformations to make it even more difficult.
> > However, it probably becomes impossible to then prove that there is *a way*
> > to write a functioning program.
> >
> > I have no problem with a language being difficult when it brings something
> > to the table, but I do draw the line when the explicit point is to prevent that
> > from happening.
> >
> > -marcel
> Hmm. What about the easiest English programming language, ASCII? You require no instructions to write Hello World, and you can use a special code to access instructions. Very handy at strings. :)
>
> We can use misc stack machine instructions to be accessed by the special code.
>
> Very suitable for an AI interface. Say, hello world, if you are alive, otherwise play dead. Works every time!
>
> It's also one of the only languages where programs are functionally correct without using the instruction set.
>
> :)
>
> April 1st is so far away.

Sorry, nothing you wrote appears intelligible. What are you trying to say?

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 11:16:57 AM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 1:13:41 PM UTC-5, Wayne morellini wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:56:40 PM UTC+10, Marcel Hendrix wrote:
> > > On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 10:07:54 AM UTC+1, minf...@arcor.de wrote:
> > > > gnuarm.del...@gmail.com schrieb am Samstag, 26. Februar 2022 um 05:47:09 UTC+1:
> > > > > Yeah, they talk about Forth being write only, but this one takes the cake.
> > > >> You might be able to figure out what a program does, but good luck figuring
> > > >> out how to *write* a program.
> > > > >
> > > > > Malbolge
> > > [..]
> > > > > Maybe I'll implement the VM in an FPGA. Give Forth a run for the money.
> > > >> It's got to be a small implementation. Oh, did I mention it uses trinary data representation? lol
> > > > >
> > > > Nice. You just need a decent compiler.
> > > Malbolge does not intentionally try to be easy to implement in hardware.
> > > Its basic instructions are designed to make programs almost [*] impossible
> > > to *write.* Each instruction is modified to another one right after it executes
> > > (with an interesting twist when the operation is a jump).
> > >
> > > [*] I'm sure one could add extra transformations to make it even more difficult.
> > > However, it probably becomes impossible to then prove that there is *a way*
> > > to write a functioning program.
> > >
> > > I have no problem with a language being difficult when it brings something
> > > to the table, but I do draw the line when the explicit point is to prevent that
> > > from happening.
> > >
> > > -marcel
> > Hmm. What about the easiest English programming language, ASCII? You require no instructions to write Hello World, and you can use a special code to access instructions. Very handy at strings. :)
> >
> > We can use misc stack machine instructions to be accessed by the special code.
> >
> > Very suitable for an AI interface. Say, hello world, if you are alive, otherwise play dead. Works every time!
> >
> > It's also one of the only languages where programs are functionally correct without using the instruction set.
> >
> > :)
> >
> > April 1st is so far away.
> Sorry, nothing you wrote appears intelligible. What are you trying to say?
>
> --
>
> Rick C.
>
> + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
> + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Arthur C. Clarke

You should know this stuff, to pick up on the good contrasting humour.

I've extracted the following expanse: [ :) ]

http://sixminutes.dlugan.com/contrast-speech:

"..What quality is vital to virtually all creative art forms..both sharpens the attention of your audience..understand you better?

Contrast!
...

...Contrast?..very broad..any difference–usually a large..–between two or more elements. ..

...degrees of contrast available..:

Opposite pairs of elements..through their differences.

Two or more elements which are not commonly associated.. juxtaposed in surprising ways.

Two or more..in the same category..examined to highlight..differences.

...is Ubiquitous..everywhere..our brains are hard-wired to recognize..seek it out.

Benefits of Contrast..

The first benefit..it sharpens the attention of your audience. ..contrast is appealing.

...book Resonate..Nancy Duarte..:

Presentations with a pulse have an ebb and flow to them. Those bursts of movement result from contrast—contrast in content, emotion, and delivery. […]

Contrast […] is at the heart of communication, because people are attracted to things that stand out.

...second benefit..adds precision to your words and ideas..understand your message.

...Writing Tools..Roy Peter Clark..:

Put odd and interesting things next to each other. Help the reader learn from contrast.
...

1. Contrasting Concepts
...Viewpoints
...Phrases and Words
...Visuals
...Voice
...Gestures
...Movement
...Emotions
...

Andrew Dlugan is the editor and founder of Six Minutes. He teaches courses, leads seminars, coaches speakers, and strives to avoid Suicide by PowerPoint. He is an award-winning public speaker and speech evaluator. Andrew is a father and husband who resides in British Columbia, Canada..."

See, he's Canadian, maybe that's why he gets humour!

Everybody should read that article in full, it is pretty good.

Well, believe it or not, I wanted to have a go at the idea below in Colorforth, but have to dump various things. However, some might find it interesting.

The idea was to make ASCII into a text handling language. It doesn't have to be ASCII, it could be another common language encoder scheme, except
ASCII leaves enough room for instructions. In this control codes can be made for Colorforth base words. The idea is to just interpret a letter in a file,
as printing to screen. Being able to print such letters to an output stream, and form frames, at video rates. Being able to control cursor position to draw
screens instead of full frames. Include colour control, and sound. On a fast enough "terminal" a game could be played, and animation. A quirky concept
for fun. But, if I were to do it, I was going to release it into open source wild, and express a desire for it to be expanded into text processing and layout
scripting language for web page design against the current standard, and fixing up some of the short comings it has.

Here is some ideas. Context switching. Control code instruction, switches all subsequent values to be control codes/instructions and API calls. Only a
limited amount of APi's are needed, so can be fitted in, depending on how much you want the wreck the protocol. But, pretty much, once you have gone
this far, ASCII is broken anyway, so you need a special terminal, or software, to run these features. Instructions will tend to get grouped together, so this
context switching will minimise wastage. The next control code call, or print command, can switch back the context to print stream. Yes, and by
interspacing the bell command enough, you have sound. You could also have custom characters you have graphics and vectors (make character tile, and
reuse custom tile. Each character could have 2 colours per character, or 4 colours, of the developers choosing. The colours being attached to the tile, so
each tile can have a different 2 to 4 colours.

Again, a fun hobbyist idea, and it doesn't have to use the ASIC.

On Sunday, February 27, 2022 at 5:13:41 AM UTC+11, Wayne morellini wrote:
> On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:56:40 PM UTC+10, Marcel Hendrix wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 10:07:54 AM UTC+1, minf...@arcor.de wrote:
> > > gnuarm.del...@gmail.com schrieb am Samstag, 26. Februar 2022 um 05:47:09 UTC+1:
> > > >
Hmm. What about the easiest English programming language, ASCII? You require no instructions to write Hello World, and you can use a special code to access instructions. Very handy at strings. :)
>
> We can use misc stack machine instructions to be accessed by the special code.
>
> Very suitable for an AI interface. Say, hello world, if you are alive, otherwise play dead. Works every time!
>
> It's also one of the only languages where programs are functionally correct without using the instruction set.
>
> :)
>
> April 1st is so far away.