Censorious Big Tech has now reached the point of Google blocking access
to comp.lang.c.

If I try to access clc from Google Groups I get told the following.

Banned content warning
comp.lang.c has been identified as containing spam, malware or other
malicious content.

For more information about content policies on Google Groups, see our
Help Centre article on abuse and our Terms of Service.

--
James Harris

On 6/9/21 5:37 AM, James Harris wrote:
> Censorious Big Tech has now reached the point of Google blocking access
> to comp.lang.c.
>
> If I try to access clc from Google Groups I get told the following.
>
>
>
> Banned content warning
> comp.lang.c has been identified as containing spam, malware or other
> malicious content.
>
> For more information about content policies on Google Groups, see our
> Help Centre article on abuse and our Terms of Service.
>

It's because of the spam and other crap that gets posted to comp.lang.c
(probably the posts in Italian screaming about pedophiles and
assassinations and such); either someone submitted a complaint or it's
triggered an automatic filter on Google's side.

Google apparently lacks the ability to intelligently filter spam or
abuse, so they just block the group. Somebody has to request it be
unblocked, but since nobody "owns" comp.lang.c the process isn't
straightforward.

This is a recurring problem, and it's affecting a number of legacy
newsgroups, not just comp.lang.c. It's a real issue, and there's
a lot of archived stuff that's not reliably available anymore.

On 09/06/2021 17:09, John Bode wrote:
> On 6/9/21 5:37 AM, James Harris wrote:
>> Censorious Big Tech has now reached the point of Google blocking
>> access to comp.lang.c.
>>
>> If I try to access clc from Google Groups I get told the following.
>>
>>
>>
>> Banned content warning
>> comp.lang.c has been identified as containing spam, malware or other
>> malicious content.

I just checked again on the offchance and GG is allowing access to
comp.lang.c again.

....

>
> Google apparently lacks the ability to intelligently filter spam or
> abuse, so they just block the group.  Somebody has to request it be
> unblocked, but since nobody "owns" comp.lang.c the process isn't
> straightforward.
>
> This is a recurring problem, and it's affecting a number of legacy
> newsgroups, not just comp.lang.c.  It's a real issue, and there's
> a lot of archived stuff that's not reliably available anymore.

Indeed. Someone set up

https://usenetarchives.com/

which seems to be copying Usenet articles from somewhere but it is doing
so very slowly. For the record, at the time of writing this the stats
page currently reports 98,351,419 posts.

There are also Usenet collections on

https://archive.org/details/usenet

but it's not clear what posts are there or how one is supposed to access
them.

--
James Harris

On Monday, 5 July 2021 at 11:55:44 UTC+1, James Harris wrote:
> On 09/06/2021 17:09, John Bode wrote:
> > On 6/9/21 5:37 AM, James Harris wrote:
> >> Censorious Big Tech has now reached the point of Google blocking
> >> access to comp.lang.c.
> >>
> >> If I try to access clc from Google Groups I get told the following.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Banned content warning
> >> comp.lang.c has been identified as containing spam, malware or other
> >> malicious content.
>
> I just checked again on the offchance and GG is allowing access to
> comp.lang.c again.
>
The world has gone crazy. Apparently we were blocked because someone was
posting material about the epidemic.

On 6/9/2021 5:37 AM, James Harris wrote:
> Censorious Big Tech has now reached the point of Google blocking access
> to comp.lang.c.
>
> If I try to access clc from Google Groups I get told the following.
>
>
>
> Banned content warning
> comp.lang.c has been identified as containing spam, malware or other
> malicious content.
>
> For more information about content policies on Google Groups, see our
> Help Centre article on abuse and our Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>

Switch to free (Thunderbird and eternal-september)

Free newsgroup host
https://www.eternal-september.org/

Free newsgroup client
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/

--
Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre
minds." Einstein

On 05/07/2021 12:23, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Monday, 5 July 2021 at 11:55:44 UTC+1, James Harris wrote:
>> On 09/06/2021 17:09, John Bode wrote:
>>> On 6/9/21 5:37 AM, James Harris wrote:
>>>> Censorious Big Tech has now reached the point of Google blocking
>>>> access to comp.lang.c.
>>>>
>>>> If I try to access clc from Google Groups I get told the following.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Banned content warning
>>>> comp.lang.c has been identified as containing spam, malware or other
>>>> malicious content.
>>
>> I just checked again on the offchance and GG is allowing access to
>> comp.lang.c again.
>>
> The world has gone crazy. Apparently we were blocked because someone was
> posting material about the epidemic.
>

Where did you hear that?

--
James Harris

On 05/07/2021 14:31, olcott wrote:
> On 6/9/2021 5:37 AM, James Harris wrote:
>> Censorious Big Tech has now reached the point of Google blocking
>> access to comp.lang.c.
>>
>> If I try to access clc from Google Groups I get told the following.
>>
>>
>>
>> Banned content warning
>> comp.lang.c has been identified as containing spam, malware or other
>> malicious content.
>>
>> For more information about content policies on Google Groups, see our
>> Help Centre article on abuse and our Terms of Service.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Switch to free (Thunderbird and eternal-september)
>
> Free newsgroup host
> https://www.eternal-september.org/
>
> Free newsgroup client
> https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/
>

I use Thunderbird and Eternal September when I'm at home. But an
internet service like Google Groups is useful for when travelling.

--
James Harris

On 5 Jul 2021 15:31, olcott wrote:
> On 6/9/2021 5:37 AM, James Harris wrote:
>> Censorious Big Tech has now reached the point of Google blocking
>> access to comp.lang.c.
>>
>> If I try to access clc from Google Groups I get told the following.
>>
>>
>>
>> Banned content warning
>> comp.lang.c has been identified as containing spam, malware or other
>> malicious content.
>>
>> For more information about content policies on Google Groups, see our
>> Help Centre article on abuse and our Terms of Service.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Switch to free (Thunderbird and eternal-september)
>
> Free newsgroup host
> https://www.eternal-september.org/
>
> Free newsgroup client
> https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/
>

As I recall Google has deleted the GG comp.lang.c archives. Half a year
ago? A year? And ditto for comp.lang.java? Not sure.

At the time, in a Facebook posting I compared that to the Nazi's book
burning.

For, it's about the same idea: remove all knowledge that one doesn't
like. Except that it's probably an automated system, an Artificial
Idiot, that's doing this, so "like" is probably a misnomer. But sort of.

Anyway that's breaking the promise Google made when they acquired
DejaNews in 2001, and it shows a total lack of commitment to original
Google values and goals.

No longer is Google collecting, storing and distributing the knowledge
of the world.

I believe the Norwegian national digital archive still archives most of
the old Usenet, but I'm not sure.

Also, there is an archive at the Internet Archive, <url:
https://archive.org/details/usenet>. But I don't know what it covers or
whether it's a still ongoing effort.

- Alf

On 7/5/2021 11:39 AM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> On 5 Jul 2021 15:31, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/9/2021 5:37 AM, James Harris wrote:
>>> Censorious Big Tech has now reached the point of Google blocking
>>> access to comp.lang.c.
>>>
>>> If I try to access clc from Google Groups I get told the following.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Banned content warning
>>> comp.lang.c has been identified as containing spam, malware or other
>>> malicious content.
>>>
>>> For more information about content policies on Google Groups, see our
>>> Help Centre article on abuse and our Terms of Service.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Switch to free (Thunderbird and eternal-september)
>>
>> Free newsgroup host
>> https://www.eternal-september.org/
>>
>> Free newsgroup client
>> https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/
>>
>
> As I recall Google has deleted the GG comp.lang.c archives. Half a year
> ago? A year? And ditto for comp.lang.java? Not sure.
>
> At the time, in a Facebook posting I compared that to the Nazi's book
> burning.
>
> For, it's about the same idea: remove all knowledge that one doesn't
> like. Except that it's probably an automated system, an Artificial
> Idiot, that's doing this, so "like" is probably a misnomer. But sort of.
>
> Anyway that's breaking the promise Google made when they acquired
> DejaNews in 2001, and it shows a total lack of commitment to original
> Google values and goals.
>
> No longer is Google collecting, storing and distributing the knowledge
> of the world.
>
> I believe the Norwegian national digital archive still archives most of
> the old Usenet, but I'm not sure.
>
> Also, there is an archive at the Internet Archive, <url:
> https://archive.org/details/usenet>. But I don't know what it covers or
> whether it's a still ongoing effort.
>
>
> - Alf

The archive is distributed many places. Personally I use Giganews and
their archive goes back to 2004: $4.99 per month. All of my very old
messages still show up in Google groups.

https://cacm.acm.org/news/248041-21-million-of-the-oldest-internet-posts-are-now-online-for-anyone-to-read/fulltext

--
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre
minds." Einstein

James Harris writes:

> I use Thunderbird and Eternal September when I'm at home. But an internet
> service like Google Groups is useful for when travelling.

There are nntp clients for Android. I never used them; they seem to be
mostly oriented towards snarfing binaries, but they might prove to be a
decent reader.

On 7/5/2021 11:39 AM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> On 5 Jul 2021 15:31, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/9/2021 5:37 AM, James Harris wrote:
>>> Censorious Big Tech has now reached the point of Google blocking
>>> access to comp.lang.c.
>>>
>>> If I try to access clc from Google Groups I get told the following.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Banned content warning
>>> comp.lang.c has been identified as containing spam, malware or other
>>> malicious content.
>>>
>>> For more information about content policies on Google Groups, see our
>>> Help Centre article on abuse and our Terms of Service.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Switch to free (Thunderbird and eternal-september)
>>
>> Free newsgroup host
>> https://www.eternal-september.org/
>>
>> Free newsgroup client
>> https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/
>>
>
> As I recall Google has deleted the GG comp.lang.c archives. Half a year
> ago? A year? And ditto for comp.lang.java? Not sure.
>
> At the time, in a Facebook posting I compared that to the Nazi's book
> burning.
>
> For, it's about the same idea: remove all knowledge that one doesn't
> like. Except that it's probably an automated system, an Artificial
> Idiot, that's doing this, so "like" is probably a misnomer. But sort of.
>
> Anyway that's breaking the promise Google made when they acquired
> DejaNews in 2001, and it shows a total lack of commitment to original
> Google values and goals.
>
> No longer is Google collecting, storing and distributing the knowledge
> of the world.
>
> I believe the Norwegian national digital archive still archives most of
> the old Usenet, but I'm not sure.
>
> Also, there is an archive at the Internet Archive, <url:
> https://archive.org/details/usenet>. But I don't know what it covers or
> whether it's a still ongoing effort.
>
>
> - Alf

This archive seems to have full text from the earliest years of USENET.
https://www.usenetarchives.com/

comp.lang.c goes back to 1986
https://www.usenetarchives.com/threads.php?id=comp.lang.c&y=0&r=0&p=1

comp.lang.java goes back to 1995
https://www.usenetarchives.com/threads.php?id=comp.lang.java&y=0&r=0&p=1

--
Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre
minds." Einstein

On 05/07/2021 14:31, olcott wrote:
>
>
> Switch to free (Thunderbird and eternal-september)
>
> Free newsgroup host
> https://www.eternal-september.org/

If you don't want to give your personal details to that chap running
that crap then you can use aioe:

<news://news.aioe.org/comp.lang.c>

<news://news.aioe.org/comp.lang.c++>

<http://news.aioe.org/>

You don't need to give any valid email either! The Italian guy believes
in "Free Speech" and person's anonymity!

On 7/5/2021 12:00 PM, Real Troll wrote:
> On 05/07/2021 14:31, olcott wrote:
>>
>>
>> Switch to free (Thunderbird and eternal-september)
>>
>> Free newsgroup host
>> https://www.eternal-september.org/
>
>
> If you don't want to give your personal details to that chap running
> that crap then you can use aioe:
>
> <news://news.aioe.org/comp.lang.c>
>
> <news://news.aioe.org/comp.lang.c++>
>
> <http://news.aioe.org/>
>
> You don't need to give any valid email either! The Italian guy believes
> in "Free Speech" and person's anonymity!
>
>

I provided an email address that I never use.

--
Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre
minds." Einstein

On 7/5/2021 8:26 AM, James Harris wrote:
> On 05/07/2021 14:31, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/9/2021 5:37 AM, James Harris wrote:
>>> Censorious Big Tech has now reached the point of Google blocking
>>> access to comp.lang.c.
>>>
>>> If I try to access clc from Google Groups I get told the following.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Banned content warning
>>> comp.lang.c has been identified as containing spam, malware or other
>>> malicious content.
>>>
>>> For more information about content policies on Google Groups, see our
>>> Help Centre article on abuse and our Terms of Service.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Switch to free (Thunderbird and eternal-september)
>>
>> Free newsgroup host
>> https://www.eternal-september.org/
>>
>> Free newsgroup client
>> https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/
>>
>
> I use Thunderbird and Eternal September when I'm at home. But an
> internet service like Google Groups is useful for when travelling.
>
>

GG was nice to be able to provide a link that anybody could go to and
read content, even if they never heard about usenet before. Now, all of
those links are dead in the water! That sucks. Grrrr. ;^(

"Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> writes:
[...]
> As I recall Google has deleted the GG comp.lang.c archives. Half a
> year ago? A year? And ditto for comp.lang.java? Not sure.
[...]

Please take a moment to check before making claims like that.

I just did a search on group.google.com for articles posted to
comp.lang.c in 1998, and got 14,528 results:

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.c/search?q=after%3A1998-01-01%20before%3A1998-12-31

A bit of browing leads me to suspect that the archive may be
incomplete, but it definitely exists.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Philips
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

On 7/5/2021 2:13 PM, Keith Thompson wrote:
> "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> writes:
> [...]
>> As I recall Google has deleted the GG comp.lang.c archives. Half a
>> year ago? A year? And ditto for comp.lang.java? Not sure.
> [...]
>
> Please take a moment to check before making claims like that.
>
> I just did a search on group.google.com for articles posted to
> comp.lang.c in 1998, and got 14,528 results:
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.c/search?q=after%3A1998-01-01%20before%3A1998-12-31
>
> A bit of browing leads me to suspect that the archive may be
> incomplete, but it definitely exists.
>

That link works, and goes to content! Thanks Keith.

On 7/5/2021 3:32 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 7/5/2021 2:13 PM, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> writes:
>> [...]
>>> As I recall Google has deleted the GG comp.lang.c archives. Half a
>>> year ago? A year? And ditto for comp.lang.java? Not sure.
>> [...]
>>
>> Please take a moment to check before making claims like that.
>>
>> I just did a search on group.google.com for articles posted to
>> comp.lang.c in 1998, and got 14,528 results:
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.c/search?q=after%3A1998-01-01%20before%3A1998-12-31
>>
>>
>> A bit of browing leads me to suspect that the archive may be
>> incomplete, but it definitely exists.
>>
>
> That link works, and goes to content! Thanks Keith.

I need to check one of my links... Can you get it to work?

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.c/c/a53VxN8cwkY/m/XKl1-0a8DAAJ

This must mean that comp.lang.c is back up online wrt GG! Nice!

On 05/07/2021 23:13, Keith Thompson wrote:
> "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> writes:
> [...]
>> As I recall Google has deleted the GG comp.lang.c archives. Half a
>> year ago? A year? And ditto for comp.lang.java? Not sure.
> [...]
>
> Please take a moment to check before making claims like that.

In particular, there is a vast difference between "deleted" and "made
temporarily inaccessible". Google disabled access to c.l.c and various
other groups via their groups interface. This was, as we all know, a
completely idiotic "throw out the baby instead of the bathwater"
solution to some bad posts. But to my knowledge, they did not /delete/
anything. (Well, they might have deleted a few crazy conspiracy posts,
but no one will cry long about that.)

>
> I just did a search on group.google.com for articles posted to
> comp.lang.c in 1998, and got 14,528 results:
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.c/search?q=after%3A1998-01-01%20before%3A1998-12-31
>
> A bit of browing leads me to suspect that the archive may be
> incomplete, but it definitely exists.
>

I'm not sure it if was ever complete - did you (or anyone else) happen
to test it /before/ this nonsense?

It's good to see it is back online, anyway.

On 7/6/21 2:22 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 05/07/2021 23:13, Keith Thompson wrote:
....
>> I just did a search on group.google.com for articles posted to
>> comp.lang.c in 1998, and got 14,528 results:
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.c/search?q=after%3A1998-01-01%20before%3A1998-12-31
>>
>> A bit of browing leads me to suspect that the archive may be
>> incomplete, but it definitely exists.
>>
>
> I'm not sure it if was ever complete - did you (or anyone else) happen
> to test it /before/ this nonsense?

I've been participating in Usenet newsgroups since the early 90's, and
I've tried save copies of all of my posts. Sometimes I forgot, and
sometimes I lost saved archives, but I still have 10's of thousands of
messages saved. At one time, a decade or so ago, I did spot comparisons
of my archive with Google's. For randomly chosen messages from my
archive, about 80% were available in Google. For randomly chosen
messages in Google's archives, about 90% were available in my archive.
Those numbers rough guestimates from unreliable wetware memory - if I
ever wrote my results down, I no longer remember where I saved them.

On 7/6/2021 3:11 PM, James Kuyper wrote:
> On 7/6/21 2:22 AM, David Brown wrote:
>> On 05/07/2021 23:13, Keith Thompson wrote:
> ...
>>> I just did a search on group.google.com for articles posted to
>>> comp.lang.c in 1998, and got 14,528 results:
>>>
>>> https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.c/search?q=after%3A1998-01-01%20before%3A1998-12-31
>>>
>>> A bit of browing leads me to suspect that the archive may be
>>> incomplete, but it definitely exists.
>>>
>>
>> I'm not sure it if was ever complete - did you (or anyone else) happen
>> to test it /before/ this nonsense?
>
> I've been participating in Usenet newsgroups since the early 90's, and
> I've tried save copies of all of my posts. Sometimes I forgot, and
> sometimes I lost saved archives, but I still have 10's of thousands of
> messages saved. At one time, a decade or so ago, I did spot comparisons
> of my archive with Google's. For randomly chosen messages from my
> archive, about 80% were available in Google. For randomly chosen
> messages in Google's archives, about 90% were available in my archive.
> Those numbers rough guestimates from unreliable wetware memory - if I
> ever wrote my results down, I no longer remember where I saved them.

How are you saving your own posts?

I have various python code to pull posts off newsservers, if you're
interested.

On 06/07/2021 20:32, DFS wrote:
>
>
> How are you saving your own posts?
>
> I have various python code to pull posts off newsservers, if you're
> interested.

You don't need anything elaborate. When you post anything to the
newsgroups, a copy also goes into the Sent folder by default. You can
configure how this handled instead of everything saved to Sent folder
but it is a different topic for Thunderbird or for any newsclient you
are using.

On 7/6/21 3:32 PM, DFS wrote:
> On 7/6/2021 3:11 PM, James Kuyper wrote:
....
>> I've been participating in Usenet newsgroups since the early 90's, and
>> I've tried save copies of all of my posts. Sometimes I forgot, and
>> sometimes I lost saved archives, but I still have 10's of thousands of
>> messages saved. At one time, a decade or so ago, I did spot comparisons
>> of my archive with Google's. For randomly chosen messages from my
>> archive, about 80% were available in Google. For randomly chosen
>> messages in Google's archives, about 90% were available in my archive.
>> Those numbers rough guestimates from unreliable wetware memory - if I
>> ever wrote my results down, I no longer remember where I saved them.
>
>
> How are you saving your own posts?

I've set up Mozilla Thunderbird to save my messages automatically when I
send them. Sometimes, when I'm away from my desktop machine, I will post
using Google Groups. If I remember the next time I'm on my desktop
machine, I can use Mozilla Thunderbird to select my new Google Groups
message, and then right-click and select "Copy To..." to put it in my
saved message folders.

I've normally only thought of Message Filters as a way of filtering out
messages I don't want - your message made me think about the possibility
of using a Thunderbird message filter to automatically save the messages
I post using Google Groups.

In article <sc2cng$14hm$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> wrote:
>On 06/07/2021 20:32, DFS wrote:
>>
>>
>> How are you saving your own posts?
>>
>> I have various python code to pull posts off newsservers, if you're
>> interested.
>
>
>You don't need anything elaborate. When you post anything to the
>newsgroups, a copy also goes into the Sent folder by default. You can
>configure how this handled instead of everything saved to Sent folder
>but it is a different topic for Thunderbird or for any newsclient you
>are using.

Yeah, but...

That works reasonably well, provided you are talking about the world, post,
say, about 2010, and that you are, in fact, using a Windows GUI newsclient
thingie, like, say, Thunderbird.

But, remember, the poster in question says he's been doing this since the
early 90s, and, also, at least some of us are still using basically the
same technology today to read and post to Usenet as we (and everyone else)
did in the early 90s.

--
The randomly chosen signature file that would have appeared here is more than 4
lines long. As such, it violates one or more Usenet RFCs. In order to remain
in compliance with said RFCs, the actual sig can be found at the following URL:
http://user.xmission.com/~gazelle/Sigs/Noam

On 13/07/2021 05:37, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> But, remember, the poster in question says he's been doing this since the
> early 90s, and, also, at least some of us are still using basically the
> same technology today to read and post to Usenet as we (and everyone else)
> did in the early 90s.

Surely, all news client must have a facility to save messages somewhere
when the user sends something. Even in the 90s when Netscape and Outlook
Express were two GUI news clients had a facility to save messages in
sent folder.

Now in the 21st century, there is even a better way to save all your
sent messages. The method I use is to initially save the messages in the
local folders and on a weekly basis, I drag the messages from sent
folder to my Yahoo account. Yahoo gives you 1TB of disk space free of
charge so make use of it. If they decide to close their free service
then they will give you at least 30 days notice so you'll need to find
other means of saving your messages.

However, if you are talking of very old messages and your copies are
lost then there is no way to get them back. In any case what is the
point of reading what happened in 1990. The technology have changed
quite a lot.

I am currently using Mozilla Thunderbird so it has better features and
easy to master. there is a newsgroup for Thunderbird here:
<news://news.aioe.org/alt.comp.software.thunderbird>. Or you could
search for: "alt.comp.software.thunderbird" in your news client. Your
service provider must have this newsgroup.

You can't rely on Google Groups because they are likely to be shut down
because Google is making a loss on them. There are no ads on that news
portal so why should they continue running it. Google is a business so
bottom line comes before anything else.

Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> writes:
>On 13/07/2021 05:37, Kenny McCormack wrote:
>> But, remember, the poster in question says he's been doing this since the
>> early 90s, and, also, at least some of us are still using basically the
>> same technology today to read and post to Usenet as we (and everyone else)
>> did in the early 90s.
>
>Surely, all news client must have a facility to save messages somewhere
>when the user sends something.

Nope. See headers. Mine will save cancelled posts to ~/dead.letter
however.