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devel / comp.lang.python / Re: Behavior of the for-else construct

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Behavior of the for-else constructRob Cliffe
+* Re: Behavior of the for-else constructJach Feng
|`- Re: Behavior of the for-else constructAvi Gross
+- Re: Behavior of the for-else constructChris Angelico
`- Re: Behavior of the for-else constructMichael F. Stemper

1
Re: Behavior of the for-else construct

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Subject: Re: Behavior of the for-else construct
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 by: Rob Cliffe - Fri, 4 Mar 2022 01:54 UTC

On 04/03/2022 01:44, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 3/3/22 5:32 PM, Rob Cliffe via Python-list wrote:
>
> > There are three types of programmer: those that can count, and those
> that can't.
>
> Actually, there are 10 types of programmer:  those that can count in
> binary, and those that can't.
1, 10, many.
No problem.
>
> --
> ~Ethan~

Re: Behavior of the for-else construct

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 by: Jach Feng - Fri, 4 Mar 2022 02:22 UTC

I never feel confused by "else" because I always think it in "break...else", not "for...else". For those who always think in "for...else" deserves this confusion and it can't be just escaped by replacing with another magic word such as "then" or "finally" etc:-)

--Jach

Re: Behavior of the for-else construct

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 by: Avi Gross - Fri, 4 Mar 2022 03:35 UTC

That is one way to look at it, Jach. Of course, a particular loop may have multiple break statements each meaning something else. The current implementation makes all of them jump to the same ELSE statement so in one sense, I consider the ELSE to be associated with the loop as a whole. Sometimes the loop may not even have a break statement and yet the dangling ELSE seems to be accepted anyway.

Some languages allow you to break out of deeply nested loops by jumping up two or more levels, perhaps to a label and are more of a goto. I shudder to think how that would work if each loop had an ELSE dangling.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jach Feng <jfong@ms4.hinet.net>
To: python-list@python.org
Sent: Thu, Mar 3, 2022 9:22 pm
Subject: Re: Behavior of the for-else construct

I never feel confused by "else" because I always think it in "break...else", not "for...else". For those who always think in "for...else" deserves this confusion and it can't be just escaped by replacing with another magic word such as "then" or "finally" etc:-)

--Jach

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Re: Behavior of the for-else construct

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 by: Chris Angelico - Fri, 4 Mar 2022 03:41 UTC

On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 at 14:37, Avi Gross via Python-list
<python-list@python.org> wrote:
>
> That is one way to look at it, Jach. Of course, a particular loop may have multiple break statements each meaning something else. The current implementation makes all of them jump to the same ELSE statement so in one sense, I consider the ELSE to be associated with the loop as a whole. Sometimes the loop may not even have a break statement and yet the dangling ELSE seems to be accepted anyway.
>
> Some languages allow you to break out of deeply nested loops by jumping up two or more levels, perhaps to a label and are more of a goto. I shudder to think how that would work if each loop had an ELSE dangling.
>

It would happen exactly the same way. I don't know why you're so
afraid of the else clause. It's simply part of the loop body, and if
you break out of the loop body, you skip it. If Python had a way to
break out of multiple loop bodies at once, it would skip the else
clauses of any that you break out of.

This is not complicated. You can argue that it could be better named
(but honestly, I'm not a fan of any of the other proposed names
either), but the concept, at its heart, is a simple one.

ChrisA

Re: Behavior of the for-else construct

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 by: Michael F. Stemper - Fri, 4 Mar 2022 20:54 UTC

On 03/03/2022 19.54, Rob Cliffe wrote:
> On 04/03/2022 01:44, Ethan Furman wrote:
>> On 3/3/22 5:32 PM, Rob Cliffe via Python-list wrote:
>>
>> > There are three types of programmer: those that can count, and those that can't.
>>
>> Actually, there are 10 types of programmer:  those that can count in binary, and those that can't.
> 1, 10, many.
> No problem.

Ah, a George Gamow fan.

--
Michael F. Stemper
Psalm 82:3-4

1
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