On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 16:45:00 +0000
Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> wrote:
>On 13/07/2021 05:37, Kenny McCormack wrote:
>> But, remember, the poster in question says he's been doing this since the
>> early 90s, and, also, at least some of us are still using basically the
>> same technology today to read and post to Usenet as we (and everyone else)
>> did in the early 90s.
>
>Surely, all news client must have a facility to save messages somewhere
>when the user sends something. Even in the 90s when Netscape and Outlook
>Express were two GUI news clients had a facility to save messages in
>sent folder.
>
>Now in the 21st century, there is even a better way to save all your
>sent messages. The method I use is to initially save the messages in the
>local folders and on a weekly basis, I drag the messages from sent
>folder to my Yahoo account. Yahoo gives you 1TB of disk space free of
>charge so make use of it. If they decide to close their free service
>then they will give you at least 30 days notice so you'll need to find
>other means of saving your messages.

Given how many apparent geniuses subscribe to comp.lang.c++ I'm amazed none
of them have written their own newsreader. NNTP is quite a simple protocol
after all. I did and I'm using it now. Ok, its command line, not GUI but it
does the job and I can make it do whatever I want.

>You can't rely on Google Groups because they are likely to be shut down
>because Google is making a loss on them. There are no ads on that news
>portal so why should they continue running it. Google is a business so
>bottom line comes before anything else.

Lets hope they sell/give it away first instead of just binning the entire
Dejanews archive.

However if you want a free news server use aioe.org. Obviously being an
apparent hobby server it might vanish too suddenly but I've been using it
for at least 10 years now and its still going strong.

MrSpud_0wmge0me@1luxp5mj4a5obrr0ws.net writes:
>On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 16:45:00 +0000

>Given how many apparent geniuses subscribe to comp.lang.c++ I'm amazed none
>of them have written their own newsreader. NNTP is quite a simple protocol
>after all. I did and I'm using it now. Ok, its command line, not GUI but it
>does the job and I can make it do whatever I want.
>

What makes you think we haven't?

On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 15:07:16 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>MrSpud_0wmge0me@1luxp5mj4a5obrr0ws.net writes:
>>On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 16:45:00 +0000
>
>>Given how many apparent geniuses subscribe to comp.lang.c++ I'm amazed none
>>of them have written their own newsreader. NNTP is quite a simple protocol
>>after all. I did and I'm using it now. Ok, its command line, not GUI but it
>>does the job and I can make it do whatever I want.
>>
>
>What makes you think we haven't?

Maybe some people have, but I get the impression most haven't.

In article <scn1sn$1bjk$1@gioia.aioe.org>, <MrSpud_6q@rm5.biz> wrote:
>On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 15:07:16 GMT
>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>>MrSpud_0wmge0me@1luxp5mj4a5obrr0ws.net writes:
>>>On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 16:45:00 +0000
>>
>>>Given how many apparent geniuses subscribe to comp.lang.c++ I'm amazed none
>>>of them have written their own newsreader. NNTP is quite a simple protocol
>>>after all. I did and I'm using it now. Ok, its command line, not GUI but it
>>>does the job and I can make it do whatever I want.
>>>
>>
>>What makes you think we haven't?
>
>Maybe some people have, but I get the impression most haven't.
>

There's no need to. Really, talk about wheel re-invention. Hey, here's an
idea, why not write a new OS? Who needs Linux? Who need z/OS? (etc)

trn (and similar, such as "tin") does everything you need, so why not use
it? You'd spend a lot of time, just to get up to the level of
functionality of trn. Why go through the hassle?

--
Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.

- Napoleon Bonaparte -

On 7/14/2021 9:08 PM, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> In article <scn1sn$1bjk$1@gioia.aioe.org>, <MrSpud_6q@rm5.biz> wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 15:07:16 GMT
>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>>> MrSpud_0wmge0me@1luxp5mj4a5obrr0ws.net writes:
>>>> On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 16:45:00 +0000
>>>
>>>> Given how many apparent geniuses subscribe to comp.lang.c++ I'm amazed none
>>>> of them have written their own newsreader. NNTP is quite a simple protocol
>>>> after all. I did and I'm using it now. Ok, its command line, not GUI but it
>>>> does the job and I can make it do whatever I want.
>>>>
>>>
>>> What makes you think we haven't?
>>
>> Maybe some people have, but I get the impression most haven't.
>>
>
> There's no need to. Really, talk about wheel re-invention. Hey, here's an
> idea, why not write a new OS? Who needs Linux? Who need z/OS? (etc)
>
> trn (and similar, such as "tin") does everything you need, so why not use
> it? You'd spend a lot of time, just to get up to the level of
> functionality of trn. Why go through the hassle?
>

Don't forget how cool is the wheel :)

On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 19:08:22 +0000, Kenny McCormack wrote:

> In article <scn1sn$1bjk$1@gioia.aioe.org>, <MrSpud_6q@rm5.biz> wrote:
>>On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 15:07:16 GMT
>>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>>>MrSpud_0wmge0me@1luxp5mj4a5obrr0ws.net writes:
>>>>On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 16:45:00 +0000
>>>
>>>>Given how many apparent geniuses subscribe to comp.lang.c++ I'm amazed none
>>>>of them have written their own newsreader. NNTP is quite a simple protocol
>>>>after all. I did and I'm using it now. Ok, its command line, not GUI but it
>>>>does the job and I can make it do whatever I want.
>>>>
>>>
>>>What makes you think we haven't?
>>
>>Maybe some people have, but I get the impression most haven't.
>>
>
> There's no need to. Really, talk about wheel re-invention. Hey, here's an
> idea, why not write a new OS? Who needs Linux? Who need z/OS? (etc)
>
> trn (and similar, such as "tin") does everything you need, so why not use
> it? You'd spend a lot of time, just to get up to the level of
> functionality of trn. Why go through the hassle?

I can think of many possible reasons to (re)create an existing tool:
- the existing tools do not provide the functionality you require, or
- the existing tools do not provide the usability you require, or
- you wish to incorporate the tool's functionality into another tool, or
- the tool is unavailable on your platform, or
- you wish to learn how to write the tool, or
- you wish to attempt to improve the existing tools

FWIW, I'm attempting to write an X11 Display Manager using low-level Xlib calls,
not because there are no X11 Display Managers available, but because I wish to
learn about X11, and I would like a Display Manager that works the way /I/ want
it to work.

What's /your/ excuse, Kenny?
--
Lew Pitcher
"In Skills, We Trust"

On 2021-07-14, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
> There's no need to. Really, talk about wheel re-invention. Hey, here's an
> idea, why not write a new OS? Who needs Linux? Who need z/OS? (etc)

Someone is reinventing the literal wheel right now in the world of high
end bicycles, though.

In comp.lang.c, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
> There's no need to. Really, talk about wheel re-invention. Hey, here's an
> idea, why not write a new OS? Who needs Linux? Who need z/OS? (etc)
>
> trn (and similar, such as "tin") does everything you need, so why not use
> it? You'd spend a lot of time, just to get up to the level of
> functionality of trn. Why go through the hassle?

I get the impression from news.software.readers that when people post
about creating new newsreaders these days the are looking for features
you don't get in tin/trn. Things like working well with multiple news
servers (track reading by message ID instead of by sequential id in news
spool) or working better with local personal cached copies instead of
copies on a remote shared server.

I can see a bit of appeal there, but not enough to actually go through
the exercise myself.

Elijah
------
typically is satisfied with bending trn to his will

In article <20210714131012.811@kylheku.com>,
Kaz Kylheku <563-365-8930@kylheku.com> wrote:
>On 2021-07-14, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
>> There's no need to. Really, talk about wheel re-invention. Hey, here's an
>> idea, why not write a new OS? Who needs Linux? Who need z/OS? (etc)
>
>Someone is reinventing the literal wheel right now in the world of high
>end bicycles, though.

I'd be interested to know more about that (as a cyclist myself).

Also, this whole sub-thread about re-inventing trn, makes me think of a
certain frequent poster who is always going on about how he's gonna
re-invent everything. Haven't heard from him in quite a while, though
(thankfully).

--
The randomly chosen signature file that would have appeared here is more than 4
lines long. As such, it violates one or more Usenet RFCs. In order to remain
in compliance with said RFCs, the actual sig can be found at the following URL:
http://user.xmission.com/~gazelle/Sigs/Aspergers

On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 19:08:22 -0000 (UTC)
gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) wrote:
>In article <scn1sn$1bjk$1@gioia.aioe.org>, <MrSpud_6q@rm5.biz> wrote:
>>On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 15:07:16 GMT
>>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>>>MrSpud_0wmge0me@1luxp5mj4a5obrr0ws.net writes:
>>>>On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 16:45:00 +0000
>>>
>>>>Given how many apparent geniuses subscribe to comp.lang.c++ I'm amazed none
>>>>of them have written their own newsreader. NNTP is quite a simple protocol
>>>>after all. I did and I'm using it now. Ok, its command line, not GUI but it
>>>>does the job and I can make it do whatever I want.
>>>>
>>>
>>>What makes you think we haven't?
>>
>>Maybe some people have, but I get the impression most haven't.
>>
>
>There's no need to. Really, talk about wheel re-invention. Hey, here's an
>idea, why not write a new OS? Who needs Linux? Who need z/OS? (etc)

The irony of mentioning Linux there. But you probably won't get it :)

>trn (and similar, such as "tin") does everything you need, so why not use

It doesn't do everything I need. Given writing software to get and post
articles on usenet isn't exactly arduous (providing you understand networking)
and that it was a fun project to do , why shouldn't I write my own?

>it? You'd spend a lot of time, just to get up to the level of
>functionality of trn. Why go through the hassle?

It wasn't hassle and I like being able to use unix tools to parse the
downloaded articles.

On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 20:02:08 -0000 (UTC)
Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> wrote:
>FWIW, I'm attempting to write an X11 Display Manager using low-level Xlib
>calls,
>not because there are no X11 Display Managers available, but because I wish to
>learn about X11, and I would like a Display Manager that works the way /I/ want
>
>it to work.

Good luck with that (genuinely, I'm not being sarcastic). I wrote one about
20 years ago and it was a fun project to do but the problem was that even
the venerable O'Reilly XLib manuals didn't provide all the information
required as they're more geared towards developing user applications. In the
end I had to look through other code to see how stuff was done but even then
some things I never got working properly.

MrSpud_0zkkxn6jj@uncf5cotva75ujdt.gov writes:
>On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 20:02:08 -0000 (UTC)
>Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> wrote:
>>FWIW, I'm attempting to write an X11 Display Manager using low-level Xlib
>>calls,
>>not because there are no X11 Display Managers available, but because I wish to
>>learn about X11, and I would like a Display Manager that works the way /I/ want
>>
>>it to work.
>
>Good luck with that (genuinely, I'm not being sarcastic). I wrote one about
>20 years ago and it was a fun project to do but the problem was that even
>the venerable O'Reilly XLib manuals didn't provide all the information
>required as they're more geared towards developing user applications. In the
>end I had to look through other code to see how stuff was done but even then
>some things I never got working properly.
>

Hm.. All the X11Rx code is open source; it's easy enough to use the
source of libX11, libXt, and libXaw as a reference.

On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:20:58 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>MrSpud_0zkkxn6jj@uncf5cotva75ujdt.gov writes:
>>On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 20:02:08 -0000 (UTC)
>>Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> wrote:
>>>FWIW, I'm attempting to write an X11 Display Manager using low-level Xlib
>>>calls,
>>>not because there are no X11 Display Managers available, but because I wish
>to
>>>learn about X11, and I would like a Display Manager that works the way /I/
>want
>>>
>>>it to work.
>>
>>Good luck with that (genuinely, I'm not being sarcastic). I wrote one about
>>20 years ago and it was a fun project to do but the problem was that even
>>the venerable O'Reilly XLib manuals didn't provide all the information
>>required as they're more geared towards developing user applications. In the
>>end I had to look through other code to see how stuff was done but even then
>>some things I never got working properly.
>>
>
>Hm.. All the X11Rx code is open source; it's easy enough to use the
>source of libX11, libXt, and libXaw as a reference.

The source of another window manager would be a lot more useful IMO as
looking at the source of the above won't show you how to use the required
APIs without doing some reverse engineering nor will it show you what to
use when.

On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 08:27:41 +0000, MrSpud_0zkkxn6jj wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 20:02:08 -0000 (UTC)
> Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> wrote:
>>FWIW, I'm attempting to write an X11 Display Manager using low-level Xlib
>>calls,
>>not because there are no X11 Display Managers available, but because I wish to
>>learn about X11, and I would like a Display Manager that works the way /I/ want
>>
>>it to work.
>
> Good luck with that (genuinely, I'm not being sarcastic). I wrote one about
> 20 years ago and it was a fun project to do but the problem was that even
> the venerable O'Reilly XLib manuals didn't provide all the information
> required as they're more geared towards developing user applications. In the
> end I had to look through other code to see how stuff was done but even then
> some things I never got working properly.

Thanks for the best wishes.

Yah, I'm about 50 pages into the Xlib manual, and have completed (and played with)
the basicwin example. And then, I left the manual alone, except for the reference
information.

I quickly found that Xlib alone wasn't conducive to effective programming; I need
a widget set or toolkit. But, I haven't abandoned Xlib; I'm simply putting together,
from scratch, the sort of widgets I need to make things work.

I have a rudimentary edit widget, and a toggleswitch widget, and a way of abstracting
the event loop into widget/window event handlers, all cobbled together over the last
couple of weeks. I intend to build enough of a framework to familiarize myself with
the practice and pitfalls of Xlib, before I move on to other toolkits. The project
isn't really about building a DM; it's about learning Xlib. If I get a usable DM
from it, then "bonus", otherwise I will still have learned something.

--
Lew Pitcher
"In Skills, We Trust"

On Thursday, 15 July 2021 at 15:59:21 UTC+1, Lew Pitcher wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 08:27:41 +0000, MrSpud_0zkkxn6jj wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 20:02:08 -0000 (UTC)
> > Lew Pitcher <lew.p...@digitalfreehold.ca> wrote:
> >>FWIW, I'm attempting to write an X11 Display Manager using low-level Xlib
> >>calls,
> >>not because there are no X11 Display Managers available, but because I wish to
> >>learn about X11, and I would like a Display Manager that works the way /I/ want
> >>
> >>it to work.
> >
> > Good luck with that (genuinely, I'm not being sarcastic). I wrote one about
> > 20 years ago and it was a fun project to do but the problem was that even
> > the venerable O'Reilly XLib manuals didn't provide all the information
> > required as they're more geared towards developing user applications. In the
> > end I had to look through other code to see how stuff was done but even then
> > some things I never got working properly.
> Thanks for the best wishes.
>
> Yah, I'm about 50 pages into the Xlib manual, and have completed (and played with)
> the basicwin example. And then, I left the manual alone, except for the reference
> information.
>
> I quickly found that Xlib alone wasn't conducive to effective programming; I need
> a widget set or toolkit. But, I haven't abandoned Xlib; I'm simply putting together,
> from scratch, the sort of widgets I need to make things work.
>
> I have a rudimentary edit widget, and a toggleswitch widget, and a way of abstracting
> the event loop into widget/window event handlers, all cobbled together over the last
> couple of weeks. I intend to build enough of a framework to familiarize myself with
> the practice and pitfalls of Xlib, before I move on to other toolkits. The project
> isn't really about building a DM; it's about learning Xlib. If I get a usable DM
> from it, then "bonus", otherwise I will still have learned something.
>
I built Baby X, oriignally, as the name suggests, as a higher-level layer of abstraction
over Xlib. I then ported it to Windows so Baby X programs can run under either
Linux (any maybe other Unices) and Windows.

A medium-level GUI toolkit needs entities such as buttons, menus, list boxes,
check boxes, image display windows, radio buttons, scrolling support, and so on.
These aren't all that difficult to program, though it's harder to get them right.

On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:59:08 -0000 (UTC)
Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> wrote:
>I quickly found that Xlib alone wasn't conducive to effective programming; I
>need
>a widget set or toolkit. But, I haven't abandoned Xlib; I'm simply putting
>together,
>from scratch, the sort of widgets I need to make things work.

It depends how much you want your WM to do. I did it in pure Xlib and
implemented button and menu widgets (thats all thats really needed) from scratch
which frankly isn't too hard. But sure, if you want a WM thats actually useful
you'll need a proper toolkit.

Am 14.07.21 um 23:03 schrieb Kenny McCormack:
> Also, this whole sub-thread about re-inventing trn, makes me think of a
> certain frequent poster who is always going on about how he's gonna
> re-invent everything. Haven't heard from him in quite a while, though
> (thankfully).
>

Oh he's quite busy to tell the people over at the Python group that
their language is a bag of shite and slow as hell and that everything
will change once he finished the frontend for his fancy compiler.

Needless to say that there isn't even remotely something like a working
demo. The last checkin was few months ago.

Christian

On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 09:33:11 +0000, MrSpud_8nnwe wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:59:08 -0000 (UTC)
> Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> wrote:
>>I quickly found that Xlib alone wasn't conducive to effective programming; I
>>need
>>a widget set or toolkit. But, I haven't abandoned Xlib; I'm simply putting
>>together,
>>from scratch, the sort of widgets I need to make things work.
>
> It depends how much you want your WM to do.

Sorry, but I must make a correction here: I have no interest (at this time)
in writing a Window Manager (WM) client for X11. The O'Reilly X11 Xlib book
discusses WMs in detail, and includes the code for a rudementary WM implemented
in Xlib.

My interest lies elsewhere: specifically, in writing a Display Manager (DM)
client for X11 in Xlib. A DM provides "a graphical login manager which starts
a login session on an X server from the same or another computer." For this,
I can find no basic example, nor any reasonably complete and simple "howto",
so it gives me a reasonable challenge to learn X11 Xlib programming with.

> I did it in pure Xlib and
> implemented button and menu widgets (thats all thats really needed) from scratch
> which frankly isn't too hard. But sure, if you want a WM thats actually useful
> you'll need a proper toolkit.

True. And, as my skills grow, I will move up to X11 toolkits and other X11 clients.
I note, however, that most present-day toolkits present bindings in C++, and not
C, thus ruling them out as far as my development projects are concerned. This
leaves a very limited list of toolkits, with no middle ground. I could either code
for one of the heritage toolkits (Athena, Motif, etc.) and have a very, shall we
say, "antique" UI, or for one of the few modern toolkits that offer C bindings,
and have an over-architected UI. ISTM that we've lost the middle ground, as far
as C bindings are concerned.

--
Lew Pitcher
"In Skills, We Trust"

MrSpud:

> Given how many apparent geniuses subscribe to
> comp.lang.c++ I'm amazed none of them have written their
> own newsreader. NNTP is quite a simple protocol after all.
> I did and I'm using it now. Ok, its command line, not GUI
> but it does the job and I can make it do whatever I want.

Regarding the reinvention of the wheel, I see nothing bad in
it as it helps you understand the wheel better than *any-
body* who have never (re)invented one, and perhaps even to
improve upon the original. Since there are so many good
newsreaders for the PC and almost none for mobile devices, I
wish I you wrote a GNKSA-compliant newsreader for Android
with mobile-device specifics such as soft-reflowing of the
text to screen width while keeping it hard-wrapped at 72-80
characters internally and in the posted article.

--
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ http://preview.tinyurl.com/qcy6mjc [archived]

On 7/14/2021 3:17 AM, MrSpud_0wmge0me@1luxp5mj4a5obrr0ws.net wrote:

> Given how many apparent geniuses subscribe to comp.lang.c++ I'm amazed none
> of them have written their own newsreader. NNTP is quite a simple protocol
> after all. I did and I'm using it now. Ok, its command line, not GUI but it
> does the job and I can make it do whatever I want.

I knocked out a simple command line reader-only in Python in no time.

https://imgur.com/a/Iaai5nN

Does yours show threading?

On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 15:33:23 -0000 (UTC)
Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> wrote:
>On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 09:33:11 +0000, MrSpud_8nnwe wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:59:08 -0000 (UTC)
>> Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> wrote:
>>>I quickly found that Xlib alone wasn't conducive to effective programming; I
>>>need
>>>a widget set or toolkit. But, I haven't abandoned Xlib; I'm simply putting
>>>together,
>>>from scratch, the sort of widgets I need to make things work.
>>
>> It depends how much you want your WM to do.
>
>Sorry, but I must make a correction here: I have no interest (at this time)
>in writing a Window Manager (WM) client for X11. The O'Reilly X11 Xlib book
>discusses WMs in detail, and includes the code for a rudementary WM implemented
>
>in Xlib.
>
>My interest lies elsewhere: specifically, in writing a Display Manager (DM)
>client for X11 in Xlib. A DM provides "a graphical login manager which starts
>a login session on an X server from the same or another computer." For this,
>I can find no basic example, nor any reasonably complete and simple "howto",
>so it gives me a reasonable challenge to learn X11 Xlib programming with.

I should imagine most display managers are little more than a window that
accepts password credentials which does credential checking and if ok simply
exec's the required WM or enviroment.

>for one of the heritage toolkits (Athena, Motif, etc.) and have a very, shall
>we
>say, "antique" UI, or for one of the few modern toolkits that offer C
>bindings,

Personally I'd go for Motif if you can still find libraries that'll work on
modern systems.

On Sat, 17 Jul 2021 15:04:16 +0000, MrSpud_Ccq3_3_r wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 15:33:23 -0000 (UTC)
> Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> wrote:
>>On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 09:33:11 +0000, MrSpud_8nnwe wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:59:08 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> wrote:
>>>>I quickly found that Xlib alone wasn't conducive to effective programming; I
>>>>need
>>>>a widget set or toolkit. But, I haven't abandoned Xlib; I'm simply putting
>>>>together,
>>>>from scratch, the sort of widgets I need to make things work.
>>>
>>> It depends how much you want your WM to do.
>>
>>Sorry, but I must make a correction here: I have no interest (at this time)
>>in writing a Window Manager (WM) client for X11. The O'Reilly X11 Xlib book
>>discusses WMs in detail, and includes the code for a rudementary WM implemented
>>
>>in Xlib.
>>
>>My interest lies elsewhere: specifically, in writing a Display Manager (DM)
>>client for X11 in Xlib. A DM provides "a graphical login manager which starts
>>a login session on an X server from the same or another computer." For this,
>>I can find no basic example, nor any reasonably complete and simple "howto",
>>so it gives me a reasonable challenge to learn X11 Xlib programming with.
>
> I should imagine most display managers are little more than a window that
> accepts password credentials which does credential checking and if ok simply
> exec's the required WM or enviroment.

Not really. To satisfy a purely local login, you need a minimum of two input
edit fields: a Username that echoes typed characters and a password that doesn't.
If you add XDMCP into the mix (which I intend to do), you need an additional
field that allows you to pick the host to connect to from a list of eligible
hostnames. These three fields may require just one window, but more likely
require more. In my experimentation, I have 7 windows just to handle this
(a window for the Hostname, a window for the ScrollUp button, a window for
the ScrollDown button, a window to frame the ScrollUp/Hostname/ScrollDown
set, a window for the Username, a window for the Password, and a window to
frame the whole set).

Add to this a window for a localtime clock, a window for a terminal identification,
and a window for a DM identifier, and all the miscellaneous windows
needed to frame these presentation windows, and you have quite a number
of windows to manage.

Then, of course, there's the actual activities that the windows themselves
present. I have a clock, so I must format and present the time and date.
I have two text inputs, so I must write text editing code. I have a scrollable
selection window, so I must write logic to update the selection, and to handle
the ScrollUp and ScrollDown buttons.

And, then there's other, non-window logic, such as the logic to start the X
server (if necessary), the logic to validate usernames and passwords (both
locally and remotely), and the logic to start the user's WM of choice.

All in all, this project will teach me a great deal about writing X11 Xlib
application code, and about X11 in general. And that's the primary goal.

>>for one of the heritage toolkits (Athena, Motif, etc.) and have a very, shall
>>we
>>say, "antique" UI, or for one of the few modern toolkits that offer C
>>bindings,
>
> Personally I'd go for Motif if you can still find libraries that'll work on
> modern systems.

Pish, tush.

I have, at my fingertips, the Athena widget set (both Xaw and Xaw3d), and Motif,
supplied as part of the Slackware Linux distribution I work in. I also have GTK+,
GTK+2, and GTK+3. Also QT and FLTK, should I want to work in C++.

--
Lew Pitcher
"In Skills, We Trust"

On 7/17/2021 5:04 PM, MrSpud_Ccq3_3_r@atc_rakxp6.info wrote:
>> for one of the heritage toolkits (Athena, Motif, etc.) and have a very, shall
>> we
>> say, "antique" UI, or for one of the few modern toolkits that offer C
>> bindings,
> Personally I'd go for Motif if you can still find libraries that'll work on
> modern systems.
>
>

Probably Lesstif, which, as far as I remember, is a FOSS clone of Motif.
But that was along time ago, so I may have missed some happening meanwhile.

MrSpud_0wmge0me@1luxp5mj4a5obrr0ws.net writes:

> On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 16:45:00 +0000
> Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> wrote:

[ ... this is a shameless plug ... ]

I have been using giganews (http://www.giganews.com) for over 10 years
and have had no problems. Sometimes you need to pay for quality service.
I wouldn't be surprised if google is spamming usenet groups so they can
snag the domain servers...

Just paranoid steve.

On Sat, 17 Jul 2021 16:30:12 -0000 (UTC)
Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> wrote:
>On Sat, 17 Jul 2021 15:04:16 +0000, MrSpud_Ccq3_3_r wrote:
>> I should imagine most display managers are little more than a window that
>> accepts password credentials which does credential checking and if ok simply
>> exec's the required WM or enviroment.
>
>Not really. To satisfy a purely local login, you need a minimum of two input
>edit fields: a Username that echoes typed characters and a password that
>doesn't.
>If you add XDMCP into the mix (which I intend to do), you need an additional
>field that allows you to pick the host to connect to from a list of eligible
>hostnames. These three fields may require just one window, but more likely
>require more. In my experimentation, I have 7 windows just to handle this
>(a window for the Hostname, a window for the ScrollUp button, a window for
>the ScrollDown button, a window to frame the ScrollUp/Hostname/ScrollDown
>set, a window for the Username, a window for the Password, and a window to
>frame the whole set).
>
>Add to this a window for a localtime clock, a window for a terminal
>identification,
>and a window for a DM identifier, and all the miscellaneous windows
>needed to frame these presentation windows, and you have quite a number
>of windows to manage.
>
>Then, of course, there's the actual activities that the windows themselves
>present. I have a clock, so I must format and present the time and date.
>I have two text inputs, so I must write text editing code. I have a scrollable
>selection window, so I must write logic to update the selection, and to handle
>the ScrollUp and ScrollDown buttons.

You can obviously add as many bells and whistles as you like, but ultimately
all you need for a basic login system is username and password - 1 window,
2 textboxes. For the other stuff you don't need a drop down, you could just
have them pre-listed which can then be clicked on, much simpler.

>And, then there's other, non-window logic, such as the logic to start the X
>server (if necessary), the logic to validate usernames and passwords (both
>locally and remotely), and the logic to start the user's WM of choice.

Basic *nix fork-exec stuff.

>> Personally I'd go for Motif if you can still find libraries that'll work on
>> modern systems.
>
>Pish, tush.
>
>I have, at my fingertips, the Athena widget set (both Xaw and Xaw3d), and
>Motif,
>supplied as part of the Slackware Linux distribution I work in. I also have

I do have a soft spot for slackware - mainly the lack of the god awful
systemd - but its hardly a standard distro these days and was last updated 5
years ago so obviously not much happening these days. I doubt any of the
common distros will have those libraries installed so if you want it to be
used by others....