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devel / comp.lang.forth / Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Kip Ingram
+* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Jurgen Pitaske
|`* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Myron Plichota
| `* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Anton Ertl
|  +* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Myron Plichota
|  |`* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Anton Ertl
|  | `* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Myron Plichota
|  |  +* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Myron Plichota
|  |  |`* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Myron Plichota
|  |  | `- Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Anton Ertl
|  |  `- Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"dxforth
|  `* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Paul Rubin
|   +* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"David Schultz
|   |`* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Paul Rubin
|   | `- Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"David Schultz
|   +* FRAM (was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth")Anton Ertl
|   |+* Re: FRAM (was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth")none
|   ||`- Re: FRAM (was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth")Anton Ertl
|   |`* Re: FRAMPaul Rubin
|   | `- Re: FRAMPaul Rubin
|   `* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"dxforth
|    `* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Paul Rubin
|     `- Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"dxforth
+- Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Wayne morellini
+* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Wayne morellini
|`* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"dxforth
| `- Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Wayne morellini
+* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Wayne morellini
|`* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Paul Rubin
| +* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Wayne morellini
| |`- Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Hans Bezemer
| +* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"none
| |`* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"S Jack
| | `* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Wayne morellini
| |  `* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"S Jack
| |   `* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Wayne morellini
| |    `* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"S Jack
| |     `* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Wayne morellini
| |      `* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"S Jack
| |       `* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Wayne morellini
| |        `- Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Wayne morellini
| `* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Howerd Oakford
|  `- Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Paul Rubin
`* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Jan Coombs
 `* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Wayne morellini
  +* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Myron Plichota
  |`* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Wayne morellini
  | `* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Myron Plichota
  |  `* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Wayne morellini
  |   +- Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Jurgen Pitaske
  |   `* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Myron Plichota
  |    `* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Wayne morellini
  |     `* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Kerr-Mudd, John
  |      `* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Wayne morellini
  |       +* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Hans Bezemer
  |       |+* covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"none
  |       ||+- Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Hans Bezemer
  |       ||`* Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"dxforth
  |       || `* Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Wayne morellini
  |       ||  `* Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"dxforth
  |       ||   `* Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Brian Fox
  |       ||    `- Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"dxforth
  |       |`* Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Wayne morellini
  |       | `- Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Hans Bezemer
  |       `- Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Wayne morellini
  `* F21 Series Forth Processors was: Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti AnsiJan Coombs
   +- Re: F21 Series Forth Processors was: Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Myron Plichota
   +- Re: F21 Series Forth Processors was: Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Wayne morellini
   `- Re: F21 Series Forth Processors was: Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"Wayne morellini

Pages:123
Re: F21 Series Forth Processors was: Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

<bf7423af-e14f-4e7c-97ef-00aafa3d4126n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: F21 Series Forth Processors was: Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"
From: waynemor...@gmail.com (Wayne morellini)
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 by: Wayne morellini - Mon, 18 Apr 2022 13:43 UTC

Found it:

http://www.ultratechnology.com/f21data.pdf

Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

<f9b120a9-f4be-4706-8afa-821854326771n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"
From: myronpli...@gmail.com (Myron Plichota)
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 by: Myron Plichota - Mon, 18 Apr 2022 15:39 UTC

On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 9:20:36 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:
> [Sarcastically] Oh yes. You think it's not about community, but you think it's all about me.
>
> Why don't you go and do it, and contribute it back to the community.

I have published on multiple occasions over the past 20+ years via various "communities", but I don't expect you or anyone else to be aware of those efforts. Perhaps you have also published, but I'm not aware of it. I'm focused on the embedded computing application domain, with a short list of email penpals to argue with.

> Myron doesn't realise what I'm suggesting is not a design I would make, it is community. But it >never stops the never help, from bathing in and not contributing positively. My own designs are a >lot different and commercial, so a commercial agreement would be needed for those to be used.

Hmm. If your own designs are "a lot different and commercial", why do you muse on ringleading "the community" to publish open source designs? I wish you luck on making money from any commercial designs you have up your sleeve..

- Myron

Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

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Subject: Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"
From: waynemor...@gmail.com (Wayne morellini)
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 by: Wayne morellini - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 11:01 UTC

On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 1:39:29 AM UTC+10, Myron Plichota wrote:
> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 9:20:36 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:
> > [Sarcastically] Oh yes. You think it's not about community, but you think it's all about me.
> >
> > Why don't you go and do it, and contribute it back to the community.
> I have published on multiple occasions over the past 20+ years via various "communities", but I don't expect you or anyone else to be aware of those efforts. Perhaps you have also published, but I'm not aware of it. I'm focused on the embedded computing application domain, with a short list of email penpals to argue with.
> > Myron doesn't realise what I'm suggesting is not a design I would make, it is community. But it >never stops the never help, from bathing in and not contributing positively. My own designs are a >lot different and commercial, so a commercial agreement would be needed for those to be used.
> Hmm. If your own designs are "a lot different and commercial", why do you muse on ringleading "the community" to publish open source designs? I wish you luck on making money from any commercial designs you have up your sleeve.
>
> - Myron

That's doing it again. The community needs it, I'm not ring leading so to speak, it's up to them. My own stuff is going be very expensive, and last night I thought I was that close to something happening and potentially dieing in the hospital. So, I don't have time for this stuff. It's just painful to see such stuff happening, and not being in a place to rectify it, year after year. We would be helped by open source, rather than waiting for me to put a number of patents in, and the 99% after that. I believe I'm encouraging people, not the pile of criticising others efforts as incompetence, that goes on here. I've been close to 100% right about the designs over the last 34 years. These guys don't have a CEO like jobs, who can read the market. What happened in Apple, Amstrad and Commodore, is people who could read the market and do.a strategy. I'm commodore, it was the Chuck Peddle Mo's crowd, who had been advocating and preparing for a home computer Marley since the 1960's onwards. I wish I had been there, we could have had a few extra appealing features on the original, which is what the other guys did as well. All the single board open keyboard computer's virtually disappeared within years after the more appealing computers came out. But a lot of people don't get it, and some even will argue against it. The Sinclair Spectrum, even though it was not the best, it was British, looked appealing, and offered an imitation of appealing features, so people bought if the Jupiter Ace tried to be a bitmapped colour computer with game console like cred, it could have sold a lot more. I saw many home computers, which I was like, why buy that, and that's what happened, most didn't sell much. They didn't have the right mind for it. That's what's lacking here in forth chips. Say they are talking gravel, but people are talking concrete patterned coated drive way, they are not going but that gravel much. It doesn't matter anyway, they are in the gravel business, thru just need to offer some drive way for their supporters. You look at the average age there, it screams new blood. The chips need a dedicated IO circuit setup for USB 3.x ports and the video circuit, and dedicated ADC DACs, all software repurposible as embedded io lines. There needs to be at least one ring master chip with this and large memory support (and a bank that allows access to each processors memory, with associative memory access, even for all chips to pass messages when the programmer wants it). If you program with an data centric view, the common bus conflicts go down as the data decides when it is used in an more orderly manne. That makes a chip that has AV, personal CE and embedded use. Using a under side pad array arrangement, a lot more lines can be incorporated, and a circuit board take the lines out. You still maintain the row and column arrangement, but with a core that can do all the above, but also can read and write each side of the columns and rows, with its own Io lines intraspaced underneath the chip. A hobbyist could literally install it up side down and do stuff with the array (bread board fashion). A large memory can be optionally included. If the main processor is the 32 bit version, then it would be a piece, and if all were 32 bit version, it would be quiet a piece. They have to get past the one chip at a time development. It's possible to develop multiple chips at a time on test runs. This means the main increased cost is only the design side, and testing (and packaging/ where they have the design side pretty down pat and a lot of things are adjustments to past lessons. So, the additional chip designs become more fractional cost increases.

Anyway, one or thing to note. Is that a video circuit, (even one like the mup21 had) and sound, storage and others, circuits, are basically performing a DMA function. If we turn things in there dude. We see that all these functions can be performed by an IO array circuit, that can be dynamically programmed for any line width, and phase signalling. As I've said before a few counters for timing, and you can set up the basic timings. This includes using popular serial phase dram memory and storage card timing, or SRAM etc. The processor becomes another item on the opposite side from the memory. Now, you can assign those few USB port, video and memory lines to be all one big big bunch of parallel IO lines for embedded use. As it is mainly used a single use, or single user system without much conflict issues to worry about, the DMA circuit can be really simple, as it's not a crossbar system, but mainly a simple spoke and hub system where the hub times and passes through communications according to It's set up. The minium implementation might be hundreds of transistors or less than 1000, plus memories. Because it's dynamic, the line configuration can change on the spot as things are taken away and added. A useful feature somewhere for somebody. This is the sort of thing we need instead the some arrays, and suites more applications and data types. That is marketable appeal.

Anyway, better today, but closing down. The vaccine reaction inflammation treatment is wearing off. I hope somebody is I soured to look at better ways. Things are so bad at the moment, getting problems handling increasing equipment complications. It's bound to be difficult turns lot of people, and we need alternatives.

Have a good day.

Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

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Subject: Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"
From: jpita...@gmail.com (Jurgen Pitaske)
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 by: Jurgen Pitaske - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 11:37 UTC

On Tuesday, 19 April 2022 at 12:01:40 UTC+1, Wayne morellini wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 1:39:29 AM UTC+10, Myron Plichota wrote:
> > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 9:20:36 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:
> > > [Sarcastically] Oh yes. You think it's not about community, but you think it's all about me.
> > >
> > > Why don't you go and do it, and contribute it back to the community.
> > I have published on multiple occasions over the past 20+ years via various "communities", but I don't expect you or anyone else to be aware of those efforts. Perhaps you have also published, but I'm not aware of it. I'm focused on the embedded computing application domain, with a short list of email penpals to argue with.
> > > Myron doesn't realise what I'm suggesting is not a design I would make, it is community. But it >never stops the never help, from bathing in and not contributing positively. My own designs are a >lot different and commercial, so a commercial agreement would be needed for those to be used.
> > Hmm. If your own designs are "a lot different and commercial", why do you muse on ringleading "the community" to publish open source designs? I wish you luck on making money from any commercial designs you have up your sleeve.
> >
> > - Myron
> That's doing it again. The community needs it, I'm not ring leading so to speak, it's up to them. My own stuff is going be very expensive, and last night I thought I was that close to something happening and potentially dieing in the hospital. So, I don't have time for this stuff. It's just painful to see such stuff happening, and not being in a place to rectify it, year after year. We would be helped by open source, rather than waiting for me to put a number of patents in, and the 99% after that. I believe I'm encouraging people, not the pile of criticising others efforts as incompetence, that goes on here. I've been close to 100% right about the designs over the last 34 years. These guys don't have a CEO like jobs, who can read the market. What happened in Apple, Amstrad and Commodore, is people who could read the market and do.a strategy. I'm commodore, it was the Chuck Peddle Mo's crowd, who had been advocating and preparing for a home computer Marley since the 1960's onwards. I wish I had been there, we could have had a few extra appealing features on the original, which is what the other guys did as well. All the single board open keyboard computer's virtually disappeared within years after the more appealing computers came out. But a lot of people don't get it, and some even will argue against it. The Sinclair Spectrum, even though it was not the best, it was British, looked appealing, and offered an imitation of appealing features, so people bought if the Jupiter Ace tried to be a bitmapped colour computer with game console like cred, it could have sold a lot more. I saw many home computers, which I was like, why buy that, and that's what happened, most didn't sell much. They didn't have the right mind for it. That's what's lacking here in forth chips. Say they are talking gravel, but people are talking concrete patterned coated drive way, they are not going but that gravel much. It doesn't matter anyway, they are in the gravel business, thru just need to offer some drive way for their supporters. You look at the average age there, it screams new blood. The chips need a dedicated IO circuit setup for USB 3.x ports and the video circuit, and dedicated ADC DACs, all software repurposible as embedded io lines. There needs to be at least one ring master chip with this and large memory support (and a bank that allows access to each processors memory, with associative memory access, even for all chips to pass messages when the programmer wants it). If you program with an data centric view, the common bus conflicts go down as the data decides when it is used in an more orderly manne. That makes a chip that has AV, personal CE and embedded use. Using a under side pad array arrangement, a lot more lines can be incorporated, and a circuit board take the lines out. You still maintain the row and column arrangement, but with a core that can do all the above, but also can read and write each side of the columns and rows, with its own Io lines intraspaced underneath the chip. A hobbyist could literally install it up side down and do stuff with the array (bread board fashion). A large memory can be optionally included. If the main processor is the 32 bit version, then it would be a piece, and if all were 32 bit version, it would be quiet a piece.. They have to get past the one chip at a time development. It's possible to develop multiple chips at a time on test runs. This means the main increased cost is only the design side, and testing (and packaging/ where they have the design side pretty down pat and a lot of things are adjustments to past lessons. So, the additional chip designs become more fractional cost increases.
>
> Anyway, one or thing to note. Is that a video circuit, (even one like the mup21 had) and sound, storage and others, circuits, are basically performing a DMA function. If we turn things in there dude. We see that all these functions can be performed by an IO array circuit, that can be dynamically programmed for any line width, and phase signalling. As I've said before a few counters for timing, and you can set up the basic timings. This includes using popular serial phase dram memory and storage card timing, or SRAM etc. The processor becomes another item on the opposite side from the memory. Now, you can assign those few USB port, video and memory lines to be all one big big bunch of parallel IO lines for embedded use. As it is mainly used a single use, or single user system without much conflict issues to worry about, the DMA circuit can be really simple, as it's not a crossbar system, but mainly a simple spoke and hub system where the hub times and passes through communications according to It's set up. The minium implementation might be hundreds of transistors or less than 1000, plus memories. Because it's dynamic, the line configuration can change on the spot as things are taken away and added. A useful feature somewhere for somebody. This is the sort of thing we need instead the some arrays, and suites more applications and data types. That is marketable appeal.
>
> Anyway, better today, but closing down. The vaccine reaction inflammation treatment is wearing off. I hope somebody is I soured to look at better ways. Things are so bad at the moment, getting problems handling increasing equipment complications. It's bound to be difficult turns lot of people, and we need alternatives.
>
> Have a good day.

All the Best - I hope you recover soon.

Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

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Subject: Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"
From: myronpli...@gmail.com (Myron Plichota)
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 by: Myron Plichota - Tue, 19 Apr 2022 12:35 UTC

Dear Wayne,

I am truly sorry to read that you are having medical difficulties. I pray for your speedy recovery.

Trying to achieve a consensus on a Forth CPU hardware design is like herding cats. There have been many successful implementations on custom silicon and FPGAs. Each implementation has its pros and cons and design priorities, and none of them that I am aware of is "the best" IMO.

Forth attracts mavericks and team players with strong opinions, and clf is famous for verbal clashes. It is important to set achievable goals, and that's why I stick to the embedded MCU paradigm. We may wish for a Forth computer that rivals the *nix/gforth success on commodity PCs, with USB keyboards, mice, and flash drives and HDMI (or DisplayPort?) glorious graphics, but even assuming success after extreme development effort, the standards are liable to change, as they have over and over again in the past.

- Myron

Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

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Subject: Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"
From: waynemor...@gmail.com (Wayne morellini)
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 by: Wayne morellini - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 17:03 UTC

On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 10:35:56 PM UTC+10, Myron Plichota wrote:
> Dear Wayne,
>
> I am truly sorry to read that you are having medical difficulties. I pray for your speedy recovery.
>
> Trying to achieve a consensus on a Forth CPU hardware design is like herding cats. There have been many successful implementations on custom silicon and FPGAs. Each implementation has its pros and cons and design priorities, and none of them that I am aware of is "the best" IMO.
>
> Forth attracts mavericks and team players with strong opinions, and clf is famous for verbal clashes. It is important to set achievable goals, and that's why I stick to the embedded MCU paradigm. We may wish for a Forth computer that rivals the *nix/gforth success on commodity PCs, with USB keyboards, mice, and flash drives and HDMI (or DisplayPort?) glorious graphics, but even assuming success after extreme development effort, the standards are liable to change, as they have over and over again in the past.
>
> - Myron

Thank you guys. I seem to have gotten over 5 weeks lost to the covid jab, but now I have the mental ability well as I used to have when quite sick. I couldn't even read emails at one stage today, and find it hard to hit the right keys a lot at stages, so lots of tyos. Or remember the right words to fit the concepts I'm thinking, let alone have to go through lots of stuff to debate the clueless. There are few things contributing to it.

Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

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 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 19:17 UTC

On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 10:03:00 -0700 (PDT)
Wayne morellini <waynemorellini@gmail.com> wrote:
[]
>
> Thank you guys. I seem to have gotten over 5 weeks lost to the covid jab, but now I have the mental ability

Wow It took my partner 2 weeks to get over an actual Covid infection (of course she'd already had 3 shots of vaccine, but still she got it).

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

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From: waynemor...@gmail.com (Wayne morellini)
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 by: Wayne morellini - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 23:05 UTC

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 5:17:40 AM UTC+10, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 10:03:00 -0700 (PDT)
> Wayne morellini <waynemo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> []
> >
> > Thank you guys. I seem to have gotten over 5 weeks lost to the covid jab, but now I have the mental ability
> Wow It took my partner 2 weeks to get over an actual Covid infection (of course she'd already had 3 shots of vaccine, but still she got it).
>
> --
> Bah, and indeed Humbug.

(Note: Don't rely on anything I report here, research it and talk to a qualified health professional./
-----

Yeah, it's a reduce severity strategy, but the latest strains are different they have reduced severity severity and are starting to not affected much by vaccines. It turns out, the spikes themselves can produce a long term degrading auto immune response, wherever from the disease itself or vaccines, where it could be like the Spanish flu, where even if you don't get a string initial reaction starting at about three months or more the autoimmune reaction becomes strong enough to give post covid symptoms, where the people started dieing three years after infection and recovery at a fairly steady yearly rate. In Australia, they recorded this death rate up till 1939. I imagine because of the best breaking out. Symptoms where solar to post covid and people became stuck on their chairs unable to initialise the will to do anything, sort of thing. Now, I've had similar thing with ME, and have not caught covid that I've known of, but I've got another condition which stuffs around your antibody response, so, I don't know if that pertains to this, and if I'm immune killer cell resistant type. So thanks to the medical profession, again, not keeping up with the scientific research, we do t know which. The trend is that when you are older (say over 49, but that is the end of an arbitrary age bracket in the statistics, so the where, what, why, and how, the real boundary layer from person to person exists is a bit obscure) you eventually become much more likely to die from the recent varieties (though I have not kept up in the last 6-8 weeks) than a younger person, and are a lot less likely to react to certain vaccines than an younger person, and when younger with age, eventually become more likely to have vaccine reactions and less likely to die. Or so I am led to believe. Unfortunately for me, I did a lot of health stuff which had anti-aging affects. I spoke to one fairly jolly youngish person in his 60's, and he and his cohorts had no reaction, but a number of younger staff were out for weeks. I am personally suspicious that, on average, that when are older, the vaccine is less likely to leak into the blood stream (there are apprently identified means) and if you are a jolly more youthful, as to energetic testosterone or whatever is the actual case, you are more resistant to it as well. So, I'm in between. But, different vaccines have different modes of reaction, and ongoing spike proteins spread and production issues. So, each needs to be independently researched for your own type of injection and case. Despite the negative effects on the immune compromised and reactive, people who are athletic/or other, and can get direct injection into viens, can get very strong reactions that get around the veins to heart muscle and inside the heart muscle, which compromises the heart and life expectancy. Don't rely on anything I report here, research it and talk to a qualified health professional.

I met a nurse, who indicated a number of ways it gets to the blood stream, but in the noisy environment, I missed the list, one might have been from muscle to lymph system.

I had a lot of reactions off of this vaccine, likely due to leakage, and maybe not from failing to aspirate. An incredible amount. After being hit by the flu vaccine into the blood stream) I tried the regular vitamin C, and other things people use to get vaccine affects down. I would get up to 10 minutes of the swelling going down, up to 10 minutes of clear, and up to 10 minutes of the swelling coming back before the next safe maximum dose. Fortunately, the nurse above had told me about some particular variety of pine needle tea drink, his sister was using to get hers down, and that helped a lot for a number of hours at a time. Also, a few deficiency things which some people who get reactions to chemicals have, and a check list of some things that people use with regular vaccine reactions. Which mainly look like nutrients that can get deficient in the biology of some people.

I got a lot of unusual effects off the novavax, and the doctor says that I will get an exemption for 3 months from getting another vaccine, but that I am better to wait until I am required to get another one, before getting the exemption, as you only get one exemption for 3 months of something, and I have somebody dieing in the nursing home to visit also.

Anyway, look up a Dr Been on YouTube due videos examining the research papers on covid and vaccines, and Dr John Campbell, who provides a slower lighter examination covid stuff. There are many videos, and only some of them pertain to vaccines, vaccine reactions and covid research. The official line, compared to the actual scientific research on these things, has been HS, over and over again, with many whistle blowers from medical professionals in trials, and official investigations. I'm going to suggest, the growing sub group of people from trials, and in the community, could represent a subgroup of people who react to things, apart from other issues, and people who have an energetic heavy worker/recreation/sports profile and those naturally more likely to have more veins in muscles or leakage, and this without a proper aspirated injection with twist, to stop needle from sucking against the opposite vein wall etc, giving a false positive for successful aspiration.

Don't rely on anything I report here, research it and talk to a qualified health professional. I am not a qualified health professional, or otherwise, and what I report shouldn't be relied upon.

Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

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Subject: Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"
From: the.beez...@gmail.com (Hans Bezemer)
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 by: Hans Bezemer - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 13:23 UTC

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 1:05:37 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:
Well, you gave some nice examples. Dr Been goes only on YouTube (more on that later)
and one can find absolutely ZERO information on the guy. He has been associated with
a fringe groups like the FLCCC. He doesn't list ANY of the papers in his YouTube posts.

Dr John Campbell is a nurse teacher (really!). None of these people have any significant
credentials on the topics they discuss. He has added this disclaimer on his YourTube
channel:

"Disclaimer; These media including videos, book, e book, articles, podcasts are not peer-reviewed.
They should never replace individual clinical judgement from your own health care provider.
No media-based material on this channel is suitable for using as professional medical advice.
All comments are also for educational purposed only and must never replace advice from your
own health care provider".

Which is probably a good idea. Note that others (like MedCram) DO list the papers involved on
their posts, so you can scrutinize them yourself to see if they're not "cherry picking". Which most of
these charlatans do - knowing that most of their gullible audience won't bother.

In general - real scientists don't publish on YouTube. They publish their papers in a well respected
scientific magazines - where they are peer reviewed, commented and - if they really f-up, retracted.

Charlatans however, know they can't stand this scientific scrutiny - so they turn (exclusively) to
Facebook and YouTube, knowing they won't be challenged there.

I have taken up several of them in my time. Fun part is - the real scientists have no trouble engaging
you. The charlatans, however, remain completely silent.

Hans Bezemer

covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

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Subject: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"
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 by: none - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 13:57 UTC

In article <1c5221a2-eec2-4b26-8ae2-59c59b3b7d0cn@googlegroups.com>,
Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 1:05:37 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:
>Well, you gave some nice examples. Dr Been goes only on YouTube (more on
>that later)
>and one can find absolutely ZERO information on the guy. He has been
>associated with
>a fringe groups like the FLCCC. He doesn't list ANY of the papers in his
>YouTube posts.
>
>Dr John Campbell is a nurse teacher (really!). None of these people have
>any significant
>credentials on the topics they discuss. He has added this disclaimer on
>his YourTube
>channel:
>
>"Disclaimer; These media including videos, book, e book, articles,
>podcasts are not peer-reviewed.
>They should never replace individual clinical judgement from your own
>health care provider.
>No media-based material on this channel is suitable for using as
>professional medical advice.
>All comments are also for educational purposed only and must never
>replace advice from your
>own health care provider".

You can take Campbell very seriously. He is one of few who can
relied upon. He tries to present serious information about covid
and youtube is working against him.
If you follow this channel, (and most people don't have the patience
to see a 30+ minute video, as needed to explain something thoroughly)
you will discover that he presents peer reviewed articles mostly.
He is a nurse teacher, that makes him eminently qualified to
explains them for a layperson.
There is nowhere in sight a serious criticism of his explanations,
merely badmouthing.

Remember Covid vaccins is a billion euro's job. Marx used to
say that for 100% profit, a capitalist sell his mothers soul to
the devil. Expect to be worse things done to secure to
pharmaceutical profits that are unimagined in Marx's time.

>
>Which is probably a good idea. Note that others (like MedCram) DO list
>the papers involved on
>their posts, so you can scrutinize them yourself to see if they're not
>"cherry picking".

You are not an expert to say that MedCram is not cherry picking.
Apparently you don't follow Campbell. Mostly he explains official
messages from the authorities and leads you to peer reviewed articles.

> Which most of
>these charlatans do - knowing that most of their gullible audience won't bother.
>
>In general - real scientists don't publish on YouTube. They publish
>their papers in a well respected
>scientific magazines - where they are peer reviewed, commented and - if
>they really f-up, retracted.
Conclusion there is no real information on youtube. "real scientist"
shun youtube, and anyone trying to present information is
by definition a charlatan.

You can not read and understand those articles in medical journals.
Campbell can, and this is where you need Campbell, servicing a large
public via youtube explaining those articles.

With this big money involved, you can expect peer reviewed articles
that say that the relation between cancer and smoking is dubious.

>
>Hans Bezemer

Groetjes Albert
--
"in our communism country Viet Nam, people are forced to be
alive and in the western country like US, people are free to
die from Covid 19 lol" duc ha
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

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Subject: Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"
From: the.beez...@gmail.com (Hans Bezemer)
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 by: Hans Bezemer - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 16:43 UTC

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 3:57:05 PM UTC+2, none albert wrote:
> You can take Campbell very seriously. He is one of few who can
> relied upon. He tries to present serious information about covid
> and youtube is working against him.

For good reasons:
https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/pfizers-confidential-document-shows-adverse-events-reported-following-vaccination-it-doesnt-demonstrate-vaccine-caused-events-or-is-unsafe/
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/12/no-credible-evidence-covid-19-mrna-vaccines-dramatically-increase-heart-attack-risk-contrary-to-flawed-abstract/
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jan/24/youtube-videos/no-death-totals-covid-19-england-have-not-been-ove/
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/11/coronavirus-fact-check-did-mutations-or-ivermectin-help-stamp-out-delta-in-japan.html

> If you follow this channel, (and most people don't have the patience
> to see a 30+ minute video, as needed to explain something thoroughly)
> you will discover that he presents peer reviewed articles mostly.

So why are the DOI numbers missing from his entries? Any scientist KNOWS
that when you're quoting papers, you have to list their DOI number in the description.

If you don't - that's a red flag.

> He is a nurse teacher, that makes him eminently qualified to
> explains them for a layperson.
> There is nowhere in sight a serious criticism of his explanations,
> merely badmouthing.
Not really - as showing above. Note I've probably read more ivermectine
papers than he has. The most damning in Manaus.

> Remember Covid vaccins is a billion euro's job. Marx used to
> say that for 100% profit, a capitalist sell his mothers soul to
> the devil. Expect to be worse things done to secure to
> pharmaceutical profits that are unimagined in Marx's time.
Two fallacies in one go. First - "call to authority" (and a weak one at
that. The world has tasted the sweet benefits of the Socialist "system") .
Second, "association fallacy". Not quite surprising in your case, but still.

> You are not an expert to say that MedCram is not cherry picking.
Even if that were true, they DO consistently list their references. And that's
what counts. If you want to debunk them you'll have a lot less work than
debunking Campbell for that reason.

> Apparently you don't follow Campbell. Mostly he explains official
> messages from the authorities and leads you to peer reviewed articles.
Yeah, I follow a guy who had access to ivermectine papers and STILL
promoted it when the word was out for a long time that the stuff didn't work.

Such a guy is really worth following.

> You can not read and understand those articles in medical journals.
Just try. Lots of statistics there. Should be a walk in the park for you -
even easier than for me.

> With this big money involved, you can expect peer reviewed articles
> that say that the relation between cancer and smoking is dubious.
Another "association fallacy". If you wanna be a communist fanboy -
be my guest. But don't try to insult my intelligence.

Hans Bezemer

Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

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Subject: Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"
From: waynemor...@gmail.com (Wayne morellini)
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 by: Wayne morellini - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 17:00 UTC

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 11:23:12 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 1:05:37 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:
> Well, you gave some nice examples. Dr Been goes only on YouTube (more on that later)
> and one can find absolutely ZERO information on the guy. He has been associated with
> a fringe groups like the FLCCC. He doesn't list ANY of the papers in his YouTube posts.
>
> Dr John Campbell is a nurse teacher (really!). None of these people have any significant
> credentials on the topics they discuss. He has added this disclaimer on his YourTube
> channel:
>
> "Disclaimer; These media including videos, book, e book, articles, podcasts are not peer-reviewed.
> They should never replace individual clinical judgement from your own health care provider.
> No media-based material on this channel is suitable for using as professional medical advice.
> All comments are also for educational purposed only and must never replace advice from your
> own health care provider".
>
> Which is probably a good idea. Note that others (like MedCram) DO list the papers involved on
> their posts, so you can scrutinize them yourself to see if they're not "cherry picking". Which most of
> these charlatans do - knowing that most of their gullible audience won't bother.
>
> In general - real scientists don't publish on YouTube. They publish their papers in a well respected
> scientific magazines - where they are peer reviewed, commented and - if they really f-up, retracted.
>
> Charlatans however, know they can't stand this scientific scrutiny - so they turn (exclusively) to
> Facebook and YouTube, knowing they won't be challenged there.
>
> I have taken up several of them in my time. Fun part is - the real scientists have no trouble engaging
> you. The charlatans, however, remain completely silent.
>

Now you cherry pick that both these people do not publish papers. When they are only there to report on other's papers. It's disgraceful. I've said I had enough of your stuff before.

> Hans Bezemer

There is something seriously wrong with your logic faculties here. I've noticed "cherry picking" before. Maybe you not getting along historically is just you, with your claimed breadth, of what is really subsets, of rules. Shifting the attack to some other cheery picked avenue rather than addressing where you are really wrong. It is a confusing mess, of over the top. I advise you to stop it.

Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

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Subject: Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"
From: the.beez...@gmail.com (Hans Bezemer)
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 by: Hans Bezemer - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 17:05 UTC

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 7:00:17 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:
> There is something seriously wrong with your logic faculties here.
> I've noticed "cherry picking" before.
Where? Be specific - how many times do I have to say that "weasel speak" doesn't count?

> Shifting the attack to some other cheery picked avenue rather than addressing where you
> are really wrong. It is a confusing mess, of over the top. I advise you to stop it.
"Cherry picking" again - well, I'm glad I taught you something new. ;-)

Note there is a whole bunch of other fallacies you have to learn about. Keep up the good work!

Hans Bezemer

Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

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Subject: Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"
From: waynemor...@gmail.com (Wayne morellini)
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 by: Wayne morellini - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 17:20 UTC

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 9:05:37 AM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 5:17:40 AM UTC+10, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> > On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 10:03:00 -0700 (PDT)
> > Wayne morellini <waynemo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > []
> > >
> > > Thank you guys. I seem to have gotten over 5 weeks lost to the covid jab, but now I have the mental ability
> > Wow It took my partner 2 weeks to get over an actual Covid infection (of course she'd already had 3 shots of vaccine, but still she got it).
> >
> > --
> > Bah, and indeed Humbug.
> (Note: Don't rely on anything I report here, research it and talk to a qualified health professional./
> -----
>
> Yeah, it's a reduce severity strategy, but the latest strains are different they have reduced severity severity and are starting to not affected much by vaccines. It turns out, the spikes themselves can produce a long term degrading auto immune response, wherever from the disease itself or vaccines, where it could be like the Spanish flu, where even if you don't get a string initial reaction starting at about three months or more the autoimmune reaction becomes strong enough to give post covid symptoms, where the people started dieing three years after infection and recovery at a fairly steady yearly rate. In Australia, they recorded this death rate up till 1939. I imagine because of the best breaking out. Symptoms where solar to post covid and people became stuck on their chairs unable to initialise the will to do anything, sort of thing. Now, I've had similar thing with ME, and have not caught covid that I've known of, but I've got another condition which stuffs around your antibody response, so, I don't know if that pertains to this, and if I'm immune killer cell resistant type. So thanks to the medical profession, again, not keeping up with the scientific research, we do t know which. The trend is that when you are older (say over 49, but that is the end of an arbitrary age bracket in the statistics, so the where, what, why, and how, the real boundary layer from person to person exists is a bit obscure) you eventually become much more likely to die from the recent varieties (though I have not kept up in the last 6-8 weeks) than a younger person, and are a lot less likely to react to certain vaccines than an younger person, and when younger with age, eventually become more likely to have vaccine reactions and less likely to die. Or so I am led to believe. Unfortunately for me, I did a lot of health stuff which had anti-aging affects. I spoke to one fairly jolly youngish person in his 60's, and he and his cohorts had no reaction, but a number of younger staff were out for weeks. I am personally suspicious that, on average, that when are older, the vaccine is less likely to leak into the blood stream (there are apprently identified means) and if you are a jolly more youthful, as to energetic testosterone or whatever is the actual case, you are more resistant to it as well. So, I'm in between. But, different vaccines have different modes of reaction, and ongoing spike proteins spread and production issues. So, each needs to be independently researched for your own type of injection and case. Despite the negative effects on the immune compromised and reactive, people who are athletic/or other, and can get direct injection into viens, can get very strong reactions that get around the veins to heart muscle and inside the heart muscle, which compromises the heart and life expectancy. Don't rely on anything I report here, research it and talk to a qualified health professional.
>
> I met a nurse, who indicated a number of ways it gets to the blood stream, but in the noisy environment, I missed the list, one might have been from muscle to lymph system.
>
>
> I had a lot of reactions off of this vaccine, likely due to leakage, and maybe not from failing to aspirate. An incredible amount. After being hit by the flu vaccine into the blood stream) I tried the regular vitamin C, and other things people use to get vaccine affects down. I would get up to 10 minutes of the swelling going down, up to 10 minutes of clear, and up to 10 minutes of the swelling coming back before the next safe maximum dose. Fortunately, the nurse above had told me about some particular variety of pine needle tea drink, his sister was using to get hers down, and that helped a lot for a number of hours at a time. Also, a few deficiency things which some people who get reactions to chemicals have, and a check list of some things that people use with regular vaccine reactions. Which mainly look like nutrients that can get deficient in the biology of some people.
>
> I got a lot of unusual effects off the novavax, and the doctor says that I will get an exemption for 3 months from getting another vaccine, but that I am better to wait until I am required to get another one, before getting the exemption, as you only get one exemption for 3 months of something, and I have somebody dieing in the nursing home to visit also.
>
> Anyway, look up a Dr Been on YouTube due videos examining the research papers on covid and vaccines, and Dr John Campbell, who provides a slower lighter examination covid stuff. There are many videos, and only some of them pertain to vaccines, vaccine reactions and covid research. The official line, compared to the actual scientific research on these things, has been HS, over and over again, with many whistle blowers from medical professionals in trials, and official investigations. I'm going to suggest, the growing sub group of people from trials, and in the community, could represent a subgroup of people who react to things, apart from other issues, and people who have an energetic heavy worker/recreation/sports profile and those naturally more likely to have more veins in muscles or leakage, and this without a proper aspirated injection with twist, to stop needle from sucking against the opposite vein wall etc, giving a false positive for successful aspiration.
>
> Don't rely on anything I report here, research it and talk to a qualified health professional. I am not a qualified health professional, or otherwise, and what I report shouldn't be relied upon.

Ok, finally tested positive for covid. A pretty rough ride, but managed to break the fever by afternoon. Using the techniques suggested by real research, if not only aneadotaly (science starts somewhere, and it is false cheery picking to say that such is wrong when you face the lack of anything better). Biased towards fake studies, because
they are claimed to credible by authorities, when they are constantly proven mistaken in order to get a more profitable result.
Normal research rather misses it a lot as well, as bias
often creeps in,producing presumption and most researchers are just not talented enough. Relying on this makes one appear a fool, of the group think variety. Most people can't read a paper and pick out the logical problems with them, and how they should have been conducted to get a more credible result compete result. Science is dominated by a subset of God, with very vision and purity, but perversely claiming they are perfectly right and pure..

Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

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From: dxfo...@gmail.com (dxforth)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 14:44:25 +1000
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: dxforth - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 04:44 UTC

On 27/04/2022 23:57, albert wrote:
>
> Remember Covid vaccins is a billion euro's job. Marx used to
> say that for 100% profit, a capitalist sell his mothers soul to
> the devil. Expect to be worse things done to secure to
> pharmaceutical profits that are unimagined in Marx's time.

Given money represents success, it's more likely fortunes are built
in order to impress parents - particularly if the latter were also
successful. Kerry Packer's media mogul father Frank had described
his son as "the family idiot". Rupert Murdock grew up in the shadow
of his famed newspaper magnate father Keith Murdoch. No matter the
system, sons are expected to prove their worth.

Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

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Subject: Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"
From: waynemor...@gmail.com (Wayne morellini)
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 by: Wayne morellini - Thu, 5 May 2022 03:24 UTC

On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 2:44:29 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:
> On 27/04/2022 23:57, albert wrote:
> >
> > Remember Covid vaccins is a billion euro's job. Marx used to
> > say that for 100% profit, a capitalist sell his mothers soul to
> > the devil. Expect to be worse things done to secure to
> > pharmaceutical profits that are unimagined in Marx's time.
> Given money represents success, it's more likely fortunes are built
> in order to impress parents - particularly if the latter were also
> successful. Kerry Packer's media mogul father Frank had described
> his son as "the family idiot". Rupert Murdock grew up in the shadow
> of his famed newspaper magnate father Keith Murdoch. No matter the
> system, sons are expected to prove their worth.

Hard to think that about him. That guy didn't became one of the richest men in the country for nothing.

Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

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From: dxfo...@gmail.com (dxforth)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 14:43:41 +1000
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 by: dxforth - Thu, 5 May 2022 04:43 UTC

On 5/05/2022 13:24, Wayne morellini wrote:
> On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 2:44:29 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:
>> On 27/04/2022 23:57, albert wrote:
>> >
>> > Remember Covid vaccins is a billion euro's job. Marx used to
>> > say that for 100% profit, a capitalist sell his mothers soul to
>> > the devil. Expect to be worse things done to secure to
>> > pharmaceutical profits that are unimagined in Marx's time.
>> Given money represents success, it's more likely fortunes are built
>> in order to impress parents - particularly if the latter were also
>> successful. Kerry Packer's media mogul father Frank had described
>> his son as "the family idiot". Rupert Murdock grew up in the shadow
>> of his famed newspaper magnate father Keith Murdoch. No matter the
>> system, sons are expected to prove their worth.
>
> Hard to think that about him. That guy didn't became one of the richest men in the country for nothing.

Certainly not for nothing - but what drives one to become 'one of the
richest men' if not insecurity?

Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

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Subject: Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"
From: brian....@brianfox.ca (Brian Fox)
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 by: Brian Fox - Thu, 5 May 2022 22:15 UTC

On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 12:43:45 AM UTC-4, dxforth wrote:
> > Hard to think that about him. That guy didn't became one of the richest men in the country for nothing.
> Certainly not for nothing - but what drives one to become 'one of the
> richest men' if not insecurity?

I think there are many forms of obsession that captivate people.
Forth programming could be one of them. :-)

Making ever larger sums of money is a game for many, with points
measured in currency. I had a decade of work in a fortune 500 corporation and making
dollars in that world is like making cakes for a baker.
It's what they know how to do so they do it.

Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

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Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 18:14:29 +1000
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 by: dxforth - Sat, 7 May 2022 08:14 UTC

On 6/05/2022 08:15, Brian Fox wrote:
> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 12:43:45 AM UTC-4, dxforth wrote:
>> > Hard to think that about him. That guy didn't became one of the richest men in the country for nothing.
>> Certainly not for nothing - but what drives one to become 'one of the
>> richest men' if not insecurity?
>
> I think there are many forms of obsession that captivate people.
> Forth programming could be one of them. :-)
>
> Making ever larger sums of money is a game for many, with points
> measured in currency. I had a decade of work in a fortune 500 corporation and making
> dollars in that world is like making cakes for a baker.
> It's what they know how to do so they do it.

Rather than kicking out the money-lenders, Jesus should have got
himself an investment portfolio and realized his dreams :)

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