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devel / comp.lang.forth / Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

SubjectAuthor
* ANN: colorForth cf2022Howerd Oakford
+* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Jurgen Pitaske
|`* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
| +* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Jurgen Pitaske
| |+* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
| ||`* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Jurgen Pitaske
| || +* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
| || |`- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Jurgen Pitaske
| || `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022dxforth
| ||  `- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Howerd Oakford
| |`- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Zbig
| `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Howerd Oakford
|  `- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
+* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022minf...@arcor.de
|+* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022dxforth
||`* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Jurgen Pitaske
|| +* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022minf...@arcor.de
|| |+* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Jurgen Pitaske
|| ||`* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Wayne morellini
|| || `- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Howerd Oakford
|| |`* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Howerd Oakford
|| | `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022S Jack
|| |  `- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Howerd Oakford
|| `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  +* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Wayne morellini
||  |`* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  | +* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022dxforth
||  | |`* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Paul Rubin
||  | | +* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  | | |`* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022dxforth
||  | | | `- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Wayne morellini
||  | | +* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Marcel Hendrix
||  | | |`* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  | | | `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Marcel Hendrix
||  | | |  `- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  | | +* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Howerd Oakford
||  | | |`* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Jon Nicoll
||  | | | `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Howerd Oakford
||  | | |  `- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Jon Nicoll
||  | | `- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022none
||  | +* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Kerr-Mudd, John
||  | |`- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  | `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Wayne morellini
||  |  +* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |  |`* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Wayne morellini
||  |  | `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |  |  `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Wayne morellini
||  |  |   `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |  |    +- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |  |    `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Wayne morellini
||  |  |     `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |  |      +* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022dxforth
||  |  |      |`- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |  |      `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Wayne morellini
||  |  |       `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |  |        +* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Marcel Hendrix
||  |  |        |`* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |  |        | +- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Marcel Hendrix
||  |  |        | +- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022S Jack
||  |  |        | +- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |  |        | +- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |  |        | `- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022S Jack
||  |  |        `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Wayne morellini
||  |  |         `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |  |          +- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Wayne morellini
||  |  |          +- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |  |          +- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |  |          +- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |  |          +- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Jurgen Pitaske
||  |  |          +- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |  |          +- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Jurgen Pitaske
||  |  |          +- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Jurgen Pitaske
||  |  |          +- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |  |          +- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Jurgen Pitaske
||  |  |          +- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |  |          +- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Wayne morellini
||  |  |          +* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Wayne morellini
||  |  |          |`* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022dxforth
||  |  |          | `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Wayne morellini
||  |  |          |  `- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Wayne morellini
||  |  |          +- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Wayne morellini
||  |  |          `- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |  `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Myron Plichota
||  |   +* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Myron Plichota
||  |   |`* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Jurgen Pitaske
||  |   | +* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |   | |`* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Jurgen Pitaske
||  |   | | +* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |   | | |`* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Jurgen Pitaske
||  |   | | | `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |   | | |  `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Paul Rubin
||  |   | | |   `- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |   | | `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Andy Valencia
||  |   | |  +* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Hans Bezemer
||  |   | |  |+- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022dxforth
||  |   | |  |`- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Zbig
||  |   | |  +- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Howerd Oakford
||  |   | |  `- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Wayne morellini
||  |   | `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Howerd Oakford
||  |   |  `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Jurgen Pitaske
||  |   |   `- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Howerd Oakford
||  |   `- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Wayne morellini
||  `* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022dxforth
|`- Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Howerd Oakford
+* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022myronp...@gmail.com
+* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Brad Eckert
`* Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022Wayne morellini

Pages:12345
Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

<10231b77-3a08-4c42-8e83-d2f3414e2132n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
From: the.beez...@gmail.com (Hans Bezemer)
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 by: Hans Bezemer - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 21:11 UTC

On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 10:39:35 AM UTC+2, dxforth wrote:
> Not sure there is much common ground - just folks making rules and offering inducements
> as to why one should follow them. Those who fail to respond in the desired manner are
> labelled 'uncooperative' or 'negative'.

David Hume "guillotine" (you can extract an "ought" from an "is") has killed just about any
effort to come to an "general moral", damning just about every single ethical principle to
the realm of arbitrariness.

Logic, however, is almost mathematics. It takes quite some convincing to make a rebel surrender
to any set of rules. It must be almost inescapable.

Those who try to flee from the inescapable are usually labeled as fools.

Hans Bezemer

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

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Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
From: the.beez...@gmail.com (Hans Bezemer)
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 by: Hans Bezemer - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 21:54 UTC

On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 10:03:45 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:
> > I don't rely on "others", I rely on widely accepted rules and principles. Some centuries old.
> Others!
You don't seem to grasp the difference between "facts" and "values". The "others" didn't judge,
they just wrote down how things work.

> Never mind. When truth becomes lies, and lies about truth become truth.
Was is truth? Is reality truth? Is reality only a subset of truth? Is somebody who is telling what
he honestly considers to be the truth lying - even if what he said is proven to be untrue?

> You have not really proven anything, just made misassertions.
Prove it. Make your case.

> The issue with rules and systems, is they are often mistaken and don't go deep enough
> to be objectively true and pure.
It's the best we have. If you can prove where logic fails, we get the chance to make those
rules even better. I must say - I don't see those failings so often. I see people err far more
often with their weird ways of constructing their thoughts.

> Hence, when somebody depends on these opinions of others, and makes false assertions
> about good logic, something's wring somewhere in that tool chain, wouldn't you agree?
You fail to substantiate where I went wrong. So I think the toolchain is just fine.

> It's not good to discourage people doing good work for free.
You can't construct an "ought" from an "is". Consult the works of David Hume.

> Look what I do, encourage you in your work.
Where did you get the impression I needed that? Give me something I can work with.
A bug, a feature request, a spelling error.

> I could probably find things in it to discourage you about.
What gave you the impression you were able to do that?

> That only means you are likely to have less people wanting to try to do these things
> for the community in the future.
That's an untested hypothesis. I don't think most people do it "to help the community",
I think it's an itch they want to scratch. Being useful to the community comes much later
- and disappears almost instantly when there is a buck to be made.

> > And that is all to it. I LITERALLY play by the rules - if you don't, there is not much common ground.
> You don't know the more advanced rules. You are just a follower of flawed people
I never followed people. I follow facts, rules, ideas. Anything that works. So if you have
any pointers - always interested.

> At least you are more ethical and relevant than another person that comes here and gets into it,
> and I actually do appreciate that.
There is a certain set of behaviors that allow you to build reliable relations with people. Violate
those and you seriously damage those relations. But that's ethology - not ethics.

> Normally, I could go through the rule system you are relying on and pick it apart logically
> (presuming it's not a misapplication of the rules). I find flaws in such things, as that's my level,
> to write such things and, in the past, do it much better. My description on logic and reasoning,
> is rather convoluted, as it is in real life.
Your description doesn't matter. If it does, write a paper, get it published after peer review,
receive raving comments and reviews - then we're talking. Otherwise, it's the "tin foil hat" bin.

> But, the more important rule was to give her fair time, to over come the small things at her
> start, and not shame her. More advanced rules. When you look t it that way. It makes more
> sense. It's not a program instruction which has only one meaning and range of actions, it's
> a wider range of things.
Anecdotal evidence doesn't count. That's rule one. Didn't Moore say "the computer understands
DUP more profoundly than you ever will. Because there is not a single doubt in its mind what it
is or what it intends to do".

People doubt. Nature doesn't. Because it lacks - by very definition - every intentionality. Our flawed,
limited minds have intentionality. We create worlds in our minds and pretend that is the truth.
The result is the world we live in, because we crave to put our lies into reality, imagining then and
only then the world will be perfect.

And we forget to ask "perfect - by whose standards"?

Hans Bezemer

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

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Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
From: mhx...@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix)
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 by: Marcel Hendrix - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 22:42 UTC

On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 11:54:49 PM UTC+2, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:
[..]
> People doubt. Nature doesn't.

By what faith does 'people doubt' not imply 'nature doubts?'

-marcel

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

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Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
From: the.beez...@gmail.com (Hans Bezemer)
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 by: Hans Bezemer - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 11:08 UTC

On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 12:42:18 AM UTC+2, Marcel Hendrix wrote:
> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 11:54:49 PM UTC+2, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:
> [..]
> > People doubt. Nature doesn't.
> By what faith does 'people doubt' not imply 'nature doubts?'
Interesting move! However, it falls short as we will examine later. .

First of all, the idea that there is no separation between "civilization" and "nature"
is an old one. The idea that there IS a separation is much younger than most think.
It really came about in the 18th and 19th century.

"Nature" was mostly regarded as both threatening and dangerous as well as a
resource, which man had the exclusive and divine right to exploit.

The idea that nature should be protected came not about until the beginning of
the 20th century and has grown and expanded ever since, most importantly in
the academic world, e.g.
https://www.clinmedkaz.org/download/civilization-versus-nature-9298.pdf

Before that - such an distinction did certainly not exist. A view, which I tend to
subscribe to.

That having said, your proposition is simply a fallacy. Depending on your view:
either a "fallacy of composition" or a "fallacy of division".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_composition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_division

A clock has gears that move. But that doesn't imply that the clock moves. It
stays static. A clock tells the time, but that doesn't imply that any single part
of the clock tells the time.

The point is that both the sizes and the timescale of civilization and nature differ.
Civilization timescales are expressed in generations - which is merely SECONDS
when geological timescales are considered. When contemplating the size of the
universe (where we may safely assume that the three corners of a triangle still
add up to 180 degrees) earth is just a spec of dust.

So I think the premise that "nature doesn't doubt" is still a defensible position..

If you had REALLY wanted to make it interesting, you could have posed the
proposition that "intentionality" doesn't exist. I mean, Daniel C. Dennett has done
this successfully on several occasions.

For the same reason, he is not a big fan of "qualia" either. Quite a compelling and
rather fresh view on the human mind, I must say.

Hans Bezemer

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

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From: how...@inventio.co.uk (Howerd Oakford)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 13:59:21 +0200
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 by: Howerd Oakford - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 11:59 UTC

Am 14/04/2022 um 16:06 schrieb Jon Nicoll:
> On Sunday, April 10, 2022 at 2:14:15 PM UTC+1, Howerd wrote:
>> Am 08/04/2022 um 10:10 schrieb Paul Rubin:
>>> dxforth <dxf...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> Few of us are trained or employed as technical writers but find
>>>> ourselves having to document. The main criteria being it can be
>>>> understood by our peers.
>>>
>>> RMS told me how he writes documentation. I don't follow the method
>>> exactly, but keep something like it in mind, and I find that it helps.
>>>
>>> Basically he writes a sentence of documentation, then sits back and
>>> re-reads it, and asks himself what the next thing is that the user will
>>> want to know after reading that sentence. That tells him what sentence
>>> to write next. Repeat until all topics for the document are covered.
>>>
>>> Then, print out the resulting document and circulate it to a few people
>>> for comments. Implement the suggestions and circulate again. Two or so
>>> iterations of that is usually enough to get a serviceable document.
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>> I feel I should know who RMS is, but I don't, his suggestions look good
>> though.
>>
>
> RMS == Richard (M) Stallman
Thanks Jon :-)

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

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Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
From: mhx...@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix)
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 by: Marcel Hendrix - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 14:54 UTC

On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 1:08:44 PM UTC+2, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:
[..]
> So I think the premise that "nature doesn't doubt" is still a defensible position..

I doubt that.

-marcel

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

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Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
From: sdwjac...@gmail.com (S Jack)
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 by: S Jack - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 17:51 UTC

On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 6:08:44 AM UTC-5, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 12:42:18 AM UTC+2, Marcel Hendrix wrote:
> > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 11:54:49 PM UTC+2, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> The idea that nature should be protected came not about until the beginning of
> the 20th century and has grown and expanded ever since, most importantly in
> the academic world, e.g.

For sure Venus won't be bothered if Earth's oceans die like some of its waterways and
lakes have already.

> A clock has gears that move. But that doesn't imply that the clock moves. It
> stays static. A clock tells the time, but that doesn't imply that any single part
> of the clock tells the time.
>
Gears don't move. Old Greeks proved that all motion is only illusion
(except maybe for The hand that writes).

> If you had REALLY wanted to make it interesting, you could have posed the
> proposition that "intentionality" doesn't exist. I mean, Daniel C. Dennett has done

While running though shiggy on an overwhelmingly hot summer day looking
for trial, I discovered asphalt under the ground covering of weeds.
Further up I came to a long narrow canal of stagnant water. Following
the canal choosing to push though chest high weeds that covered my body
with sticky seeds rather than wade though the nasty water of the canal
I came to a bend where appeared an outcrop of rust brown rock in the
cliff above. But on closer inspection I concluded the rock wasn't
natural but man made. After more discoveries, I learned that I was in
an abandon wild life park that nature had reclaimed. Felt like "last
man on earth" after the fall.

--
me

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

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Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
From: the.beez...@gmail.com (Hans Bezemer)
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 by: Hans Bezemer - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 18:06 UTC

On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 4:55:00 PM UTC+2, Marcel Hendrix wrote:
> > So I think the premise that "nature doesn't doubt" is still a defensible position..
> I doubt that.

You're entitled to your opinion. However, without any arguments to support them,
it doesn't mean a whole lot.

Hans Bezemer

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

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Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
From: the.beez...@gmail.com (Hans Bezemer)
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 by: Hans Bezemer - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 18:20 UTC

On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 7:51:20 PM UTC+2, S Jack wrote:
> For sure Venus won't be bothered if Earth's oceans die like some of its waterways and
> lakes have already.
It probably won't. But I suppose you didn't make a difference between the quick
history of thought around the thinking about nature - and nature how I defined it. But
this is a nice illustration of the magnitude of universe and the laws it is governed by.

> Gears don't move.
Depends on your definition. Since all motion is relative, you could say that the gear
is static and everything else turns around its axis.

> Old Greeks proved that all motion is only illusion
Which Greek? Parmenides, Aristotle and Plato had their different ideas about motion.
And although very influential (up to Newtons time), I think Einstein gave us a much
more detailed description.

> (except maybe for The hand that writes).
That's Omar Khayyám - not a Greek AFAIK.

Hans Bezemer

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Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
From: sdwjac...@gmail.com (S Jack)
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 by: S Jack - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 18:44 UTC

On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 1:21:00 PM UTC-5, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:
> That's Omar Khayyám - not a Greek AFAIK.

Glad you got that. Just included Omar in case I was offensive to
something that could write me off.
--
me

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Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
From: jkn...@nicorp.f9.co.uk (Jon Nicoll)
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 by: Jon Nicoll - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 22:24 UTC

On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 12:59:24 PM UTC+1, Howerd wrote:
> Am 14/04/2022 um 16:06 schrieb Jon Nicoll:
> > On Sunday, April 10, 2022 at 2:14:15 PM UTC+1, Howerd wrote:
> >> Am 08/04/2022 um 10:10 schrieb Paul Rubin:
> >>> dxforth <dxf...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>>> Few of us are trained or employed as technical writers but find
> >>>> ourselves having to document. The main criteria being it can be
> >>>> understood by our peers.
> >>>
> >>> RMS told me how he writes documentation. I don't follow the method
> >>> exactly, but keep something like it in mind, and I find that it helps.
> >>>
> >>> Basically he writes a sentence of documentation, then sits back and
> >>> re-reads it, and asks himself what the next thing is that the user will
> >>> want to know after reading that sentence. That tells him what sentence
> >>> to write next. Repeat until all topics for the document are covered.
> >>>
> >>> Then, print out the resulting document and circulate it to a few people
> >>> for comments. Implement the suggestions and circulate again. Two or so
> >>> iterations of that is usually enough to get a serviceable document.
> >> Hi Paul,
> >>
> >> I feel I should know who RMS is, but I don't, his suggestions look good
> >> though.
> >>
> >
> > RMS == Richard (M) Stallman
> Thanks Jon :-)

Paul Rubin is rather well connected, if you didn't know....

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

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Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
From: hwfw...@gmail.com (Brad Eckert)
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 by: Brad Eckert - Mon, 18 Apr 2022 01:53 UTC

On Monday, April 4, 2022 at 1:44:03 PM UTC-7, Howerd wrote:
> Hi Forthers,
>
> I am pleased to announce an updated version of colorForth : cf2022.
>
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/colorforth/
> https://github.com/Howerd/colorForth
> or from my website:
> https://www.inventio.co.uk/cf2022/
>
> Documentation is here :
> http://www.inventio.co.uk/cf2022/cf2022_colorForth.pdf
>
> Readme is here :
> https://www.inventio.co.uk/cf2022/readme.txt
>
> The main difference between cf2019 and cf2022 is that cf2022 has an
> ASCII font, even though it still uses Shannon-Fano encoding for the cf
> token names.
> This is step in the direction of the rest of the programming world.
>
> It occurred to me while I was updating cf2022 that I like colorForth
> because it is as close to the metal as you can get - I see a connection
> between colorForth and this video : https://youtu.be/gNRnrn5DE58
> colorForth is the equivalent of the Surface Plate that everything else
> can be referenced too. Just my 2c worth.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Cheers,
> Howerd
Thanks for a great reference implementation. At the very least it's a kind of time capsule of colorForth ideas.

I'm not sure how useful it is self-hosted. OS hosting would be nice. What about an Android version that uses the touch screen as chorded input?

A colorForth simulation should have multiple processors. Maybe simulated on multiple threads.

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

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Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
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 by: Howerd Oakford - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 04:01 UTC

Am 18/04/2022 um 03:53 schrieb Brad Eckert:
> On Monday, April 4, 2022 at 1:44:03 PM UTC-7, Howerd wrote:
>> Hi Forthers,
>>
>> I am pleased to announce an updated version of colorForth : cf2022.
>>
>> https://sourceforge.net/projects/colorforth/
>> https://github.com/Howerd/colorForth
>> or from my website:
>> https://www.inventio.co.uk/cf2022/
>>
>> Documentation is here :
>> http://www.inventio.co.uk/cf2022/cf2022_colorForth.pdf
>>
>> Readme is here :
>> https://www.inventio.co.uk/cf2022/readme.txt
>>
>> The main difference between cf2019 and cf2022 is that cf2022 has an
>> ASCII font, even though it still uses Shannon-Fano encoding for the cf
>> token names.
>> This is step in the direction of the rest of the programming world.
>>
>> It occurred to me while I was updating cf2022 that I like colorForth
>> because it is as close to the metal as you can get - I see a connection
>> between colorForth and this video : https://youtu.be/gNRnrn5DE58
>> colorForth is the equivalent of the Surface Plate that everything else
>> can be referenced too. Just my 2c worth.
>>
>> Enjoy!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Howerd
> Thanks for a great reference implementation. At the very least it's a kind of time capsule of colorForth ideas.
>
> I'm not sure how useful it is self-hosted. OS hosting would be nice. What about an Android version that uses the touch screen as chorded input?
>
> A colorForth simulation should have multiple processors. Maybe simulated on multiple threads.
Hi Brad,

> Thanks for a great reference implementation.
Thanks for the appreciation :-)

> At the very least it's a kind of time capsule of colorForth ideas.
That is precisely my intention.

> OS hosting would be nice.
The current cf2022 distro runs under bochs in Windows, or natively from
a USB drive.

> What about an Android version that uses the touch screen as
> chorded input?
Isn't Android something to do with Google now?

I just noticed today that bochs is available for Linux - I've just
updated my Linux laptop to Ubuntu 22.04, and I plan to provide a Linux
version ASAP.

> A colorForth simulation should have multiple processors.
> Maybe simulated on multiple threads.
I'm not sure what simulation this would be - a GA144 chip?

Cheers,
Howerd

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

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Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
From: waynemor...@gmail.com (Wayne morellini)
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 by: Wayne morellini - Tue, 26 Apr 2022 16:38 UTC

On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 7:54:49 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 10:03:45 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:
> > > I don't rely on "others", I rely on widely accepted rules and principles. Some centuries old.
> > Others!
> You don't seem to grasp the difference between "facts" and "values". The "others" didn't judge,
> they just wrote down how things work.

Don't matter how much you mix things, it's not going make you true.

> > Never mind. When truth becomes lies, and lies about truth become truth.
> Was is truth? Is reality truth? Is reality only a subset of truth? Is somebody who is telling what
> he honestly considers to be the truth lying - even if what he said is proven to be untrue?

There we go, mixing and distorting.

> > You have not really proven anything, just made misassertions.
> Prove it. Make your case.
> > The issue with rules and systems, is they are often mistaken and don't go deep enough
> > to be objectively true and pure.
> It's the best we have. If you can prove where logic fails, we get the chance to make those
> rules even better. I must say - I don't see those failings so often. I see people err far more
> often with their weird ways of constructing their thoughts.

Yes, I'm seeing that here, again. Lots of diversion.

When you reach a high level, get back to me. The rest is immature uncaring garbage, trying to waste time avoiding looking wrong.

Quoting logical fallacies doesn't help. If one of these opinions you call rule makers, came here anonymously and you started arguing with them, would the end be really thar different? The preposterousity from the beginning has been evident. One who looks to convenient rule subsets the rather than oneself.

Your behaviour and it's affects, were the more advanced thing you didn't get. You don't win, as you obviously are trying to deny, and that not winning is something some on the absurd diminutive ego trail, don't get around here. Your absurd lengths of denial, is just a waste of logic and time. I'm out of here.

(> > But, the more important rule was to give her fair time, to over come the small things at her
> > start, and not shame her. More advanced rules. When you look t it that way. It makes more
> > sense. It's not a program instruction which has only one meaning and range of actions, it's
> > a wider range of things.
> Anecdotal evidence doesn't count. That's rule one. Didn't Moore say "the computer understands
> DUP more profoundly than you ever will. Because there is not a single doubt in its mind what it
> is or what it intends to do".

Lol! That's startling. Ever hear the term 'Ogga Bogga'! You are not seeing through your own BS:
...
> ..We create worlds in our minds and pretend that is the truth.
> The result is the world we live in, because we crave to put our lies into reality, imagining then and
> only then the world will be perfect...

Flawed German Rules based order. Always coming across some imitation rational NS supporter like person telling it like "it is". You haven't realised the lesson, we all have a lot to learn, that includes, beyond lesser mistaken rules, which just results in being wrong about things.

>
> Hans Bezemer)

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

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Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
From: the.beez...@gmail.com (Hans Bezemer)
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 by: Hans Bezemer - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 10:32 UTC

On Tuesday, April 26, 2022 at 6:38:06 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:
> Don't matter how much you mix things, it's not going make you true.
Without any supporting arguments, this is an empty statement.
But you seem to have a particular liking for posing empty statements.
I'll come back to this.

> There we go, mixing and distorting.
Look, if you want to reject the basic principles of philosophy and ontology,
be my guest. It's a free country. However, I fear you won't get much traction
in academic circles. It's just another example of your ignorance. Which by
itself is fine.

But given you had over ten days to come up with a proper defense, I must say
that this is rather disappointing.

> Yes, I'm seeing that here, again. Lots of diversion.
Another empty statement. You seem to be wholesaling this stuff.

> When you reach a high level, get back to me. The rest is immature
> uncaring garbage, trying to waste time avoiding looking wrong.
Another highly emotional outburst with very little content. Ok, I'll say this
once more: whatever emotions you display, whatever opinion you have of me
- I simply don't care. You're insignificant to me. And it doesn't carry any
content I might remotely be interested in.

> Quoting logical fallacies doesn't help.
It does help a lot. It means your argument is unfounded and unsound.
If you can't see that: your loss.

> If one of these opinions you call rule makers, came here anonymously
> and you started arguing with them, would the end be really that different?
I doubt that very much. Most of 'em have been dead for a long time. It would
be a much more interesting discussion though - lots of things to learn there.

> The preposterousity from the beginning has been evident.
I see a pejorative term, but no proof of its validity.

> One who looks to convenient rule subsets the rather than oneself.
A mere mortal is not interesting. The rules that define the universe are.
One of which that by very definition, all ethics are arbitrary. Which makes it
kind of hard to judge oneself.

> Your behaviour and it's affects, were the more advanced thing you didn't get.
I think you mean "effects".

> You don't win, as you obviously are trying to deny, and that not winning is
> something some on the absurd diminutive ego trail, don't get around here.
> Your absurd lengths of denial, is just a waste of logic and time. I'm out of here.
I haven't learned anything from this discourse so far, since no sound arguments
have been posed. And you could have been out of here 10 days ago. But you keep
on getting back for more, so I suppose you like it.

> Lol! That's startling. Ever hear the term 'Ogga Bogga'!
This is what comes up when I google it. Not very helpful.
https://dani-youtube.fandom.com/wiki/Ogga_Bogga

> You are not seeing through your own BS:
Define BS. I know it's a pejorative word with a wide range of interpretations. Which
means in laymans terms that your BS does not equal my BS. Since I reject tone
by definition, a good intensional definition of BS is required.

> Flawed German Rules based order.
I'm not German. Nor was Bertrand Russell. I tend to lean much more to the
Anglo-American school of analytic philosophy, BTW.

> Always coming across some imitation rational NS supporter like person
> telling it like "it is".
That doesn't make sense. The NS movement was much more founded in
continental philosophy - the likes of Heidegger and Nietschze. You're mixing
things up here.

> You haven't realised the lesson, we all have a lot to learn, that includes,
> beyond lesser mistaken rules, which just results in being wrong about things.
Again, apart from getting acquainted with your particular poorly constructed
opinions, I've learned very little here.

Hans Bezemer

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

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Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
From: zbigniew...@gmail.com (Zbig)
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 by: Zbig - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 19:09 UTC

> > Really?! A three page primer? 24 page content - because the rest is just a lazy code dump?
> >
> > I don't know what your standards are concerning documentation - but they're REALLY not mine..
> >
> > Hans Bezemer
> I am awfully sorry, that your counting capabilities seem to be limited,
>
> but 184 pages A4 is quite an effort,
> and nicely formatted.
> http://www.inventio.co.uk/cf2022/cf2022_colorForth.pdf

But this is true: from page 24 onwards until page 184 there are appendices B and C, which
are — respectively — assembler and Forth listings. IMHO they could be moved into separate
file "ColorForth Internals" or the like.

> Please show us what you have produced
> that comes close to Howerd's work,
> so we can really compare and understand why you are so negative.
> I assume we would like to understand how you define your documentation standard.
> Thank you.

Oh, it's not that easy to find any docs reaching the level of quality (let alone „better than”) of 4th's documentation. :)

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

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 by: Zbig - Fri, 29 Apr 2022 20:00 UTC

> It's just a senior citizens home, where the inhabitants are beating each other over their
> heads with canes

:D

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

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Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
From: waynemor...@gmail.com (Wayne morellini)
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 by: Wayne morellini - Thu, 5 May 2022 03:11 UTC

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 8:32:05 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 26, 2022 at 6:38:06 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:
> > Don't matter how much you mix things, it's not going make you true.
> Without any supporting arguments, this is an empty statement.
> But you seem to have a particular liking for posing empty statements.
> I'll come back to this.

Empty heads think full statements are empty.

> in academic circles. It's just another example of your ignorance. Which by
> itself is fine.

Yet, you continue to skirt around and away and yet you are not ignorant?

> But given you had over ten days to come up with a proper defense, I must say

Let's see, you wrongly started this, and wrongly kept it going. Misusing rational logic. You are simply wrong because you started wring, and whatever you do doesn't change that. Don't bring a fork to a sword fight and complain that nobody is using a fork.

Now, as I've recovered from covid, after 6 weeks of mostly bad reactions to twp vaccines before hand, and on top of the brain damage, and fighting off a heap of stuff related to that. I'm not interested in jumping to your command. You are a sub set of a sub set, claiming to be a full set, which you are not, nor do you perceive what the full set is. There is a saying for that.

You seem to be unable to reflect straight forwards statements to the past events, and your actions they are about. Your statements about emotion, is just hidden emotional statements themselves. You always seem to skirt seeing the things statements refer to. No true intelligence, is the inability to apply context or interpretation of context. That is how the real world works. But, this is likely to produce yet another miniature rant about vague/empty statements when it is you who are vague and empty. And yes, your semi-intelligent use of knowledge, is disappointing, so don't by pass the mirror and pull that one. If your life is about documentation, doing a forth language , good on you, doing this stuff to other people is not significant.. Just self denial. When you look at it, I've really been wining constantly.
...
> > If one of these opinions you call rule makers, came here anonymously
> > and you started arguing with them, would the end be really that different?
> I doubt that very much. Most of 'em have been dead for a long time. It would

There's another example, struggle to think figuratively. Just self denial.
...
> > One who looks to convenient rule subsets the rather than oneself.
> A mere mortal is not interesting. The rules that define the universe are.
You have not quoted the rules that define the universe, have you? You have been quoting subsets to avoid looking at greater rules. Problem is, the common delusional technical type, is not going see that. Even if I didn't the 40 hours showing everything you did wrong, you are still Lely just to continue in firm and excuse it away, rather then put in genuine effort to look at yourself, which is what this was all about. The empty thing here, is your denial.
...
> > Your behaviour and it's affects, were the more advanced thing you didn't get.
> I think you mean "effects".

Yes.
....
> I haven't learned anything from this discourse so far, since no sound arguments
> have been posed.

That's be side you haven't used sound judgement of thought, isn't it? The fact that somebody has got their hand on the pulse of the beast, has just sent you into continual denial. Because that is mostly what you are doing.

> > Flawed German Rules based order.
> I'm not German. Nor was Bertrand Russell. I tend to lean much more to the
> Anglo-American school of analytic philosophy, BTW.

The flavour is failing.
...
> > telling it like "it is".
> That doesn't make sense. The NS movement was much more founded in
> continental philosophy - the likes of Heidegger and Nietschze. You're mixing
> things up here.

You didn't just say that? Can't you differentiate between subsets and a level of authoritarian usage (another subset)? Your statement illustrates the absolutism of the impoverished subset, I was talking about. You have to start thinking, it's about what something "can" mean not about what you want it to mean, or by some subset of knowledge. But, I don't like having to address this stuff, but you seem to like annoying with it.

> > You haven't realised the lesson, we all have a lot to learn, that includes,
> > beyond lesser mistaken rules, which just results in being wrong about things.
...I've learned very little here.

Isn't that evident.

>
> Hans Bezemer

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

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Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
From: the.beez...@gmail.com (Hans Bezemer)
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 by: Hans Bezemer - Thu, 5 May 2022 08:45 UTC

On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 5:18:23 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 8:32:05 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > ...
> > > I haven't learned anything from this discourse so far, since no sound arguments
> > > have been posed.
> That's "because" you haven't used sound judgement of thought..
>
> It's "learnt" by the way.
It only shows you're British. Google it ;-)

HB

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

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Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
From: the.beez...@gmail.com (Hans Bezemer)
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 by: Hans Bezemer - Thu, 5 May 2022 11:08 UTC

On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 5:18:23 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:
> That's "because" you haven't used sound judgement of thought..
... and there you are completely wrong. I have some education concerning
"critical thinking" - which you obviously haven't. If you had, you would have
recognized it. I bet you don't even know the difference between "induction" or
"deduction" if it bit you in the @$$.

And that is EXACTLY why I call out all your fallacies. Now, a clever person
would think - "what is that all about?" - and dive into it. You obviously don't.
You keep on falling into every fallacy, thinking that at one moment or the
other you will miraculously get a decent argument across. Or by repeating
the same flawed premise it will gain in strength over time.

Sad..

Hans Bezemer

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

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Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
From: the.beez...@gmail.com (Hans Bezemer)
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 by: Hans Bezemer - Fri, 6 May 2022 07:29 UTC

On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 5:11:11 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 8:32:05 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 26, 2022 at 6:38:06 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:
> > > Don't matter how much you mix things, it's not going make you true.
> > Without any supporting arguments, this is an empty statement.
> Empty heads think full statements are empty.
Another empty statement, since it doesn't contain any arguments.
At least do you have ripped a wisecrack from some celebrity or
historical figure. I give you that.

> Let's see, you wrongly started this, and wrongly kept it going. Misusing rational
> logic. You are simply wrong because you started wring, and whatever you do
> doesn't change that. Don't bring a fork to a sword fight and complain that
> nobody is using a fork.
Logic is always rational - that's a tautology. And it can be applied ANYWHERE.
And I had no beef with you. So why are you discussing this in the first place?
And what was invalid about my initial statement? Bring some arguments? So
far all you have done - and continue to do - is restate a "tone" fallacy. And you
can't undo a fallacy - unless is has been wrongly applied. No arguments have
been given in that regard.
> Now, as I've recovered from covid, after 6 weeks of mostly bad reactions to
> twp vaccines before hand, and on top of the brain damage, and fighting off
> a heap of stuff related to that.
My father always said "There are two kind of problems in the world - my problem
and not my problem". I'm sorry for you, but if you engage in a discussion and you're
not up to the fight - if you choose the action, you choose the consequences that
come with it. You own the action, now you own the consequences. You don't get
any points for playing the victim.

> I'm not interested in jumping to your command.
Fair enough. But why should that be of interest to me?

> You are a sub set of a sub set,
I'm a set, a subset and a subset of a subset. By very definition. I'm probably also an
element in a set (or subset). I'm probably also the intersection or union of sets and
subsets. So in how far is this relevant?

> claiming to be a full set, which you are not, nor do you perceive what the full set
> is. There is a saying for that.
I can claim to be a full set - and in some way that is probably true. The ultimate full
set is probably the set of all sets, including those that contain themselves. Russell
won't be happy with that - maybe you are..

> You seem to be unable to reflect straight forwards statements to the past events,
> and your actions they are about.
Prove it. Make your case. I've already done it before, so no need to repeat that one.

> Your statements about emotion, is just hidden emotional statements themselves.
> You always seem to skirt seeing the things statements refer to.
Well, that's another tautology. Let me break this down in simple premises:
- Every human being experiences some form of emotions all the time;
- Every human being that initiates an action is hence experiencing some form
of emotion;
- Since emotions permeate all human actions, it's impossible to have any action
without any emotion;
- I am a human, hence all my actions are permeated by some kind of emotion.

Note I left out the precarious concept of "intentionality" here. But there are enough
interesting premises to go into.

> No true intelligence, is the inability to apply context or interpretation of context.
Define context. it can be the circumstances that form the setting for an event,
statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood - but also those
parts of something written or spoken that immediately precede and follow a word
or passage and clarify its meaning.

Next, you may define whatever you want - but if this definition is not accepted by
the other party, it is moot. In any case, you seem to be constructing something
pejorative - which I don't care about. Your opinion about me doesn't bear any
significance to me.

> That is how the real world works.
Prove it. And while you're at it, define "the real world".

> But, this is likely to produce yet another miniature rant about vague/empty
> statements when it is you who are vague and empty.
Every concept I use can be googled and studied.

> And yes, your semi-intelligent use of knowledge, is disappointing,
Again, why should I care about your opinion about me.

> so don't by pass the mirror and pull that one.
As much as you have the right not to be interested in jumping to my command,
I have the right to reject your mirror.

> If your life is about documentation, doing a forth language , good on you, doing
> this stuff to other people is not significant.
That's for other people to decide. Unless you're having some good statistics on
"what other people think about 4tH" - which BTW I would be quite interested in -
this is pure conjecture. And it's a "weasel speak" fallacy, BTW.

All actions people take are by very definition arbitrary. I guess we have to occupy
ourselves with something that is relevant to us in the grand waiting room of death..

And given the energy death of the universe - what is significant?

> Just self denial. When you look at it, I've really been wining constantly.
... and dining, believe me! ;-)

> There's another example, struggle to think figuratively. Just self denial.
Where is the fun in thinking figuratively? I mean, literally..

The use of a (metaphorical) figure only has use when it is a good analog
to a literal principle.

> You have not quoted the rules that define the universe, have you?
That would be a long list of rules.

> You have been quoting subsets to avoid looking at greater rules.
No, I use subsets of rules, because the others have no applicability.

> Problem is, the common delusional technical type, is not going see that.
Another pejorative term - you have a particular liking for that: as if I care -
and I could state the same about any other, less rational people.

> Even if I didn't the 40 hours showing everything you did wrong, you are
> still Lely just to continue in firm and excuse it away, rather then put in
> genuine effort to look at yourself, which is what this was all about.
> The empty thing here, is your denial.
Repeating the same stuff over and over again does not make it any more
true. If I'm delusional, what are people that deny elementary logic?

> That's be side you haven't used sound judgement of thought, isn't it?
That's gibberish. There are sound arguments and valid arguments. Do
you know the difference?

> The fact that somebody has got their hand on the pulse of the beast,
I'm not religious. Which shouldn't be too surprising.

> has just sent you into continual denial. Because that is mostly what
> you are doing.
Explain to me - in words that I can understand - what I'm denying.

> You didn't just say that? Can't you differentiate between subsets
> and a level of authoritarian usage (another subset)? Your statement
> illustrates the absolutism of the impoverished subset, I was talking
> about. You have to start thinking, it's about what something "can" mean
> not about what you want it to mean, or by some subset of knowledge.
> But, I don't like having to address this stuff, but you seem to like annoying
> with it.
If you don't define the subsets, it's hard to differentiate between them.
I don't know what is more impoverished than an empty set, you
explain me. Every piece of knowledge is of course a subset, another
tautology. Stop talking gibberish - it's a waste of my time.

Hans Bezemer

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

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Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
From: jpita...@gmail.com (Jurgen Pitaske)
Injection-Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 08:50:50 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
 by: Jurgen Pitaske - Fri, 6 May 2022 08:50 UTC

On Friday, 6 May 2022 at 08:29:38 UTC+1, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 5:11:11 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 8:32:05 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, April 26, 2022 at 6:38:06 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:
> > > > Don't matter how much you mix things, it's not going make you true.
> > > Without any supporting arguments, this is an empty statement.
> > Empty heads think full statements are empty.
> Another empty statement, since it doesn't contain any arguments.
> At least do you have ripped a wisecrack from some celebrity or
> historical figure. I give you that.
> > Let's see, you wrongly started this, and wrongly kept it going. Misusing rational
> > logic. You are simply wrong because you started wring, and whatever you do
> > doesn't change that. Don't bring a fork to a sword fight and complain that
> > nobody is using a fork.
> Logic is always rational - that's a tautology. And it can be applied ANYWHERE.
> And I had no beef with you. So why are you discussing this in the first place?
> And what was invalid about my initial statement? Bring some arguments? So
> far all you have done - and continue to do - is restate a "tone" fallacy. And you
> can't undo a fallacy - unless is has been wrongly applied. No arguments have
> been given in that regard.
> > Now, as I've recovered from covid, after 6 weeks of mostly bad reactions to
> > twp vaccines before hand, and on top of the brain damage, and fighting off
> > a heap of stuff related to that.
> My father always said "There are two kind of problems in the world - my problem
> and not my problem". I'm sorry for you, but if you engage in a discussion and you're
> not up to the fight - if you choose the action, you choose the consequences that
> come with it. You own the action, now you own the consequences. You don't get
> any points for playing the victim.
> > I'm not interested in jumping to your command.
> Fair enough. But why should that be of interest to me?
> > You are a sub set of a sub set,
> I'm a set, a subset and a subset of a subset. By very definition. I'm probably also an
> element in a set (or subset). I'm probably also the intersection or union of sets and
> subsets. So in how far is this relevant?
> > claiming to be a full set, which you are not, nor do you perceive what the full set
> > is. There is a saying for that.
> I can claim to be a full set - and in some way that is probably true. The ultimate full
> set is probably the set of all sets, including those that contain themselves. Russell
> won't be happy with that - maybe you are..
> > You seem to be unable to reflect straight forwards statements to the past events,
> > and your actions they are about.
> Prove it. Make your case. I've already done it before, so no need to repeat that one.
> > Your statements about emotion, is just hidden emotional statements themselves.
> > You always seem to skirt seeing the things statements refer to.
> Well, that's another tautology. Let me break this down in simple premises:
> - Every human being experiences some form of emotions all the time;
> - Every human being that initiates an action is hence experiencing some form
> of emotion;
> - Since emotions permeate all human actions, it's impossible to have any action
> without any emotion;
> - I am a human, hence all my actions are permeated by some kind of emotion.
>
> Note I left out the precarious concept of "intentionality" here. But there are enough
> interesting premises to go into.
> > No true intelligence, is the inability to apply context or interpretation of context.
> Define context. it can be the circumstances that form the setting for an event,
> statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood - but also those
> parts of something written or spoken that immediately precede and follow a word
> or passage and clarify its meaning.
>
> Next, you may define whatever you want - but if this definition is not accepted by
> the other party, it is moot. In any case, you seem to be constructing something
> pejorative - which I don't care about. Your opinion about me doesn't bear any
> significance to me.
> > That is how the real world works.
> Prove it. And while you're at it, define "the real world".
> > But, this is likely to produce yet another miniature rant about vague/empty
> > statements when it is you who are vague and empty.
> Every concept I use can be googled and studied.
> > And yes, your semi-intelligent use of knowledge, is disappointing,
> Again, why should I care about your opinion about me.
> > so don't by pass the mirror and pull that one.
> As much as you have the right not to be interested in jumping to my command,
> I have the right to reject your mirror.
> > If your life is about documentation, doing a forth language , good on you, doing
> > this stuff to other people is not significant.
> That's for other people to decide. Unless you're having some good statistics on
> "what other people think about 4tH" - which BTW I would be quite interested in -
> this is pure conjecture. And it's a "weasel speak" fallacy, BTW.
>
> All actions people take are by very definition arbitrary. I guess we have to occupy
> ourselves with something that is relevant to us in the grand waiting room of death..
>
> And given the energy death of the universe - what is significant?
> > Just self denial. When you look at it, I've really been wining constantly.
> .. and dining, believe me! ;-)
> > There's another example, struggle to think figuratively. Just self denial.
> Where is the fun in thinking figuratively? I mean, literally..
>
> The use of a (metaphorical) figure only has use when it is a good analog
> to a literal principle.
> > You have not quoted the rules that define the universe, have you?
> That would be a long list of rules.
> > You have been quoting subsets to avoid looking at greater rules.
> No, I use subsets of rules, because the others have no applicability.
> > Problem is, the common delusional technical type, is not going see that.
> Another pejorative term - you have a particular liking for that: as if I care -
> and I could state the same about any other, less rational people.
> > Even if I didn't the 40 hours showing everything you did wrong, you are
> > still Lely just to continue in firm and excuse it away, rather then put in
> > genuine effort to look at yourself, which is what this was all about.
> > The empty thing here, is your denial.
> Repeating the same stuff over and over again does not make it any more
> true. If I'm delusional, what are people that deny elementary logic?
> > That's be side you haven't used sound judgement of thought, isn't it?
> That's gibberish. There are sound arguments and valid arguments. Do
> you know the difference?
> > The fact that somebody has got their hand on the pulse of the beast,
> I'm not religious. Which shouldn't be too surprising.
> > has just sent you into continual denial. Because that is mostly what
> > you are doing.
> Explain to me - in words that I can understand - what I'm denying.
> > You didn't just say that? Can't you differentiate between subsets
> > and a level of authoritarian usage (another subset)? Your statement
> > illustrates the absolutism of the impoverished subset, I was talking
> > about. You have to start thinking, it's about what something "can" mean
> > not about what you want it to mean, or by some subset of knowledge.
> > But, I don't like having to address this stuff, but you seem to like annoying
> > with it.
> If you don't define the subsets, it's hard to differentiate between them.
> I don't know what is more impoverished than an empty set, you
> explain me. Every piece of knowledge is of course a subset, another
> tautology. Stop talking gibberish - it's a waste of my time.
>
> Hans Bezemer

HANS BEZEMER and WAYNE MORINELLI

F O R T H K I L L E R S A T WO R K

Peter F**** has gone quiet fortunately
Hugh Aguilar has gone rather quiet fortunately

BUT there are new people who seem to step forward in this function
and have nothing to say about Forth.
Just private silly fights.

They seem not to have email addresses that function yet,
otherwise they could fight as much as they like off-line and not bother us here.

Having their private silly fight here.
The word Forth is not even in it.

I feel rather sorry about the good work Howerd does for Forth and his post.


Click here to read the complete article
Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

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Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
From: the.beez...@gmail.com (Hans Bezemer)
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 by: Hans Bezemer - Fri, 6 May 2022 08:59 UTC

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 10:50:51 AM UTC+2, jpit...@gmail.com wrote:
> It seems I have to do some googling and send emails to NL Banks
> to ask, if such behaviour is part of those Bank's work ethics of their employees or consultants.
> Attaching the PDF of this post and a link for later usage.

Google this: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/actueel/nieuws/2022/02/25/delen-van-persoonsgegevens-met-als-doel-intimidatie-wordt-strafbaar

I have no trouble at all pressing charges.

HB

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

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Subject: Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022
From: jpita...@gmail.com (Jurgen Pitaske)
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 by: Jurgen Pitaske - Fri, 6 May 2022 09:16 UTC

On Friday, 6 May 2022 at 09:59:10 UTC+1, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 10:50:51 AM UTC+2, jpit...@gmail.com wrote:
> > It seems I have to do some googling and send emails to NL Banks
> > to ask, if such behaviour is part of those Bank's work ethics of their employees or consultants.
> > Attaching the PDF of this post and a link for later usage.
> Google this: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/actueel/nieuws/2022/02/25/delen-van-persoonsgegevens-met-als-doel-intimidatie-wordt-strafbaar
>
> I have no trouble at all pressing charges.
>
> HB

You have posted it all here, so it is out in the world for everybody to read already.
Spreading the original or just linking to it.

Free speech does not only apply to you - please dump your shit elsewhere.

and for others translated, a quick google translate:

Sharing personal data for the purpose of intimidation becomes a criminal offence
News item | 25-02-2022 | 18:30

Sharing personal data to intimidate someone, also known as doxing, must be punishable under criminal law. Think of sharing personal data to scare someone. That is why Minister Yeşilgöz-Zegerius (Justice and Security) is sending a bill on this to the Council of State for advice. The phenomenon whereby address details are shared in chat groups, after which, for example, someone is frightened at home, has grown enormously in recent years. The victims feel unsafe and intimidated.

Often it is aid workers, police officers, journalists and politicians who become victims of doxing. But scientists, opinion makers or employees of municipalities also have to deal with people who distribute or forward their personal data with the aim of frightening them. Previously, the House of Representatives and employers such as the police have also indicated that they are concerned about their employees and have argued for a criminal law approach to this problem.

“You stay away from aid workers, agents, journalists and other people who are committed in any way to our free society. Within that free society we cannot tolerate that some people think they have to intimidate others by spreading their private information. At home, you and your family should be safe. You must be able to speak freely at all times. And you must be able to do your work unimpeded. That is why we draw the line here and lay down in law that we do not accept this. Online platforms also know that they must act and cannot leave this behavior unanswered. And whoever crosses that border deserves punishment. †

said Minister Yeşilgöz-Zegerius.

A lot of intimidating behavior is already punishable by law. Think of threats and stalking. In practice, intimidation by sharing personal data can often not be dealt with under criminal law. For example, because there is no threat of a serious crime or a systematic invasion of the privacy of the person concerned. With the bill that Minister Yeşilgöz-Zegerius sends to the Council of State for advice, the police can intervene earlier. It is also clear for internet platforms that they have a role to act against this, for example by removing or making the content inaccessible. After the Council of State has given advice, the bill will be presented to the House of Representatives as soon as possible.

To provide, disseminate or otherwise make available identifying personal data of another or a third party with the intent to intimidate, cause or cause serious nuisance to or seriously hinder that other person in the exercise of his office or profession, is subject to a maximum prison sentence of one year. The new section of the law explicitly provides that people who can assume in good faith that the disclosure of data is in the public interest, are not punishable by law. It cannot therefore be invoked against journalists and whistleblowers who disclose news facts and abuses.

The bill from Minister Yeşilgöz-Zegerius is expected to give the police and the Public Prosecution Service a firmer basis to act against doxing. The victim can also initiate civil proceedings themselves if it is known who posted the offending content online. Compensation and the removal of the illegal content offline can then be demanded. If the perpetrator is not known, a report can be made to the intermediary that hosts the content. Intermediaries such as providers and online platforms have a role to act if they are aware that their platforms or servers contain illegal or illegal content.

did this information help you?
Yes
New
Also see
Privacy and personal data
Subject
Punishments and measures
Subject
Responsible

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022

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 by: Jurgen Pitaske - Fri, 6 May 2022 09:31 UTC

you have put it all for the world to read

https://thebeez.home.xs4all.nl/4tH/thebeez.html

and from there:

Introducing the Beez'

The Beez in his home town
Hans Bezemer in his home town, where he finally settled down after an eventful life.

Well, you probably wonder who made all this possible. Let us introduce you to "the Beez'". No, of course that is not his real name! But whether you pronounce it in English or in Dutch, it always sounds a bit like "beast". Mr. Bezemer earned this nickname by uprooting parties and laughing like thunder.

In real life, Mr. Bezemer is pretty harmless. Always mumbling something like "yacc, drop, lex, awk". Don't pay any attention. This is quite normal; he's just in verbose mode. If you attempt to have a conversation with Mr. Bezemer (which experienced users will discourage), you will probably be lectured in the latest algorithms of his newest program.

Consequently, Mr. Bezemer was happily married to Susie, a 2.8 GHz P4 equipped with 1 GB RAM running Linux 2.6.8 until Agnes came along, a beautiful, darkhaired Francaise who was actually able to tear him away from his keyboard for any length of time without starting a devastating row. Since his laptop has been stolen twice, he now prefers to write his documentation in the safety and comfort of his own home.

If you find Mr. Bezemer in an extremely good mood, there are a few possibilities:

4tH is now running twice as fast.
Microsoft is bankrupt and its assets were bought by Red Hat for the symbolic amount of $1.
He has just updated a profile of himself on the Web with a high "tongue-in-cheek" content.
After careful observation we found that Mr. Bezemer's private life is a bit more complex. Apart from his blogs, columns and articles he also writes poetry and prose, based on his experiences in Berlin before and after the fall of the Wall. He published his first book in 2001 and co-authored "Wild Child in the City of Light".

He also designed the "Circlesort" algorithm and is the author of the "spin-off" uBasic/4tH interpreter. He managed to make the first viable Coherent OS image, which eventually led to its Open Sourcing. He is also the only one so far who managed to put the notorious Ben Nanonote into a VM. Finally, he is a widely acknowledged expert on ITSM Configuration Management and Enterprise Information Management. For that, he designed the "Juno" application, one of the most versatile CMDBs available.

His favorite writers are Charles Bukowski, Leonard Cohen and Jerzy Kosinski.. He has seen "Wings of desire", "Jaws", "Apocalypse Now", "9½ Weeks", "2010", "Koyaanisqatsi", "Vertigo" and "The search for Spock" a zillion times. Apart from the Doors he listens to Beethoven, Cesar Franck, Vivaldi, the Rainbirds, Wendy Carlos, Tangerine Dream, Portishead, Nico, Barbara Thalheim, Ina Deter, John Carpenter, Philip Glass, Leonard Cohen, Rammstein and Billy Holiday.

He occasionally watches TV. The only theatre show Mr. Bezemer ever liked was "Hexenkessel" by Romy Haag.

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