I need to prepare some sort of technical manual that would provide a means of debugging a particular board. I was originally planning for it to contain a theory of operation, but also a guide that would provide detailed debug info for the test program. In particular, for each type of failure, it would point to various test points for probing and indicate the nature of the signal to be expected.

I'm thinking of what medium this would be easiest in. The test program is in Forth on a PC and could incorporate the detailed instructions and the decision tree. It might be a bit harder to bring up the images showing where to probe and the signals expected in the console. But I'm wondering if there's a way to send HTML to a browser page to display this?

Anyone familiar with an application sending HTML to a browser on the same machine? I'm using Win32Forth.

--

Rick C.

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On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 5:07:15 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
> I need to prepare some sort of technical manual that would provide a means of debugging a particular board. I was originally planning for it to contain a theory of operation, but also a guide that would provide detailed debug info for the test program. In particular, for each type of failure, it would point to various test points for probing and indicate the nature of the signal to be expected.
>
> I'm thinking of what medium this would be easiest in. The test program is in Forth on a PC and could incorporate the detailed instructions and the decision tree. It might be a bit harder to bring up the images showing where to probe and the signals expected in the console. But I'm wondering if there's a way to send HTML to a browser page to display this?
>
> Anyone familiar with an application sending HTML to a browser on the same machine? I'm using Win32Forth.

Someone pointed out that an HTML file or even many other file types can simply be "run", similar to double clicking them in the GUI. How would that be done in Win32Forth?

--

Rick C.

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On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 5:54:52 PM UTC-4, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 5:07:15 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
> > I need to prepare some sort of technical manual that would provide a means of debugging a particular board. I was originally planning for it to contain a theory of operation, but also a guide that would provide detailed debug info for the test program. In particular, for each type of failure, it would point to various test points for probing and indicate the nature of the signal to be expected.
> >
> > I'm thinking of what medium this would be easiest in. The test program is in Forth on a PC and could incorporate the detailed instructions and the decision tree. It might be a bit harder to bring up the images showing where to probe and the signals expected in the console. But I'm wondering if there's a way to send HTML to a browser page to display this?
> >
> > Anyone familiar with an application sending HTML to a browser on the same machine? I'm using Win32Forth.
> Someone pointed out that an HTML file or even many other file types can simply be "run", similar to double clicking them in the GUI. How would that be done in Win32Forth?
>
> --
>
> Rick C.
>
> + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
> + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

My approach would be to create a little language that outputs html to a file.
I did something like this for Rosetta code.
(with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek, I tried to make Forth look like HTML )

https://www.rosettacode.org/wiki/Create_an_HTML_table#Forth
This example would be better if it used a separate vocabulary or wordlist.

Then you can write up your pages in your Forth lexicon that automatically creates files.
Then the program displays the files on your browser by using SYSTEM with a string that
has the browser name and the file path.

I think win32Forth does something like that in a demo that starts the calculator. (?)

Would that work?

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 6:56:06 PM UTC-4, Brian Fox wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 5:54:52 PM UTC-4, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 5:07:15 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
> > > I need to prepare some sort of technical manual that would provide a means of debugging a particular board. I was originally planning for it to contain a theory of operation, but also a guide that would provide detailed debug info for the test program. In particular, for each type of failure, it would point to various test points for probing and indicate the nature of the signal to be expected.
> > >
> > > I'm thinking of what medium this would be easiest in. The test program is in Forth on a PC and could incorporate the detailed instructions and the decision tree. It might be a bit harder to bring up the images showing where to probe and the signals expected in the console. But I'm wondering if there's a way to send HTML to a browser page to display this?
> > >
> > > Anyone familiar with an application sending HTML to a browser on the same machine? I'm using Win32Forth.
> > Someone pointed out that an HTML file or even many other file types can simply be "run", similar to double clicking them in the GUI. How would that be done in Win32Forth?
> >
> > --
> >
> > Rick C.
> >
> > + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
> > + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
> My approach would be to create a little language that outputs html to a file.
> I did something like this for Rosetta code.
> (with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek, I tried to make Forth look like HTML )
>
> https://www.rosettacode.org/wiki/Create_an_HTML_table#Forth
> This example would be better if it used a separate vocabulary or wordlist..
>
> Then you can write up your pages in your Forth lexicon that automatically creates files.
> Then the program displays the files on your browser by using SYSTEM with a string that
> has the browser name and the file path.
>
> I think win32Forth does something like that in a demo that starts the calculator. (?)
>
> Would that work?

Yeah, that would work. I'm not seeing the advantage to writing the HTML for the pages in Forth, but possibly. The pages would all be similar, with at least three images, a schematic section, a PCB CAD image, and possibly a waveform image. There would be text describing the test failure and what is potentially wrong.

Still, HTML has come a long way since I wrote any some 20 years ago.

Looking at your example, the HTML code is written to standard output. I assume you redirected that to a file? Not trying to be pedantic, but there are many means of generating the actual HTML code. In my thinking that's not the harder part. The part I haven't worked out in my mind is to have the HTML displayed in a window. The HTML can all be written in advance and simply stored, or possibly served up over the Internet... no, maybe not that.. Win32Forth has a habit of looking like a virus to a lot of AVS. One way around that in the environment it will be run is to not connect it to the network and therefore, not connect to the Internet.

Here's a question because I infrequently write Forth code and have trouble separating the different timing of functions in Forth. toquote parses the input buffer, and is used in several words. If I were to use your example code in a word, to parameterize the table, would toquote work correctly, or at all?

<th align=" right" >

In this line, the first word would compile ok, align=" would be compiled as itself, but then right" is not a word and would cause it to fail, no? So would toquote need to be different in order to allow the above line to be part of a compiled word? I think it would need to be immediate and compile to a literal that runs when the outer word is run.

Thanks for the reply. This helps me think about the problem.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

In article <3683c623-5163-46e5-ac24-d75d5fac8958n@googlegroups.com>,
Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 5:07:15 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
>> I need to prepare some sort of technical manual that would provide a
>means of debugging a particular board. I was originally planning for it
>to contain a theory of operation, but also a guide that would provide
>detailed debug info for the test program. In particular, for each type of
>failure, it would point to various test points for probing and indicate
>the nature of the signal to be expected.
>>
>> I'm thinking of what medium this would be easiest in. The test program
>is in Forth on a PC and could incorporate the detailed instructions and
>the decision tree. It might be a bit harder to bring up the images
>showing where to probe and the signals expected in the console. But I'm
>wondering if there's a way to send HTML to a browser page to display
>this?
>>
>> Anyone familiar with an application sending HTML to a browser on the
>same machine? I'm using Win32Forth.
>
>Someone pointed out that an HTML file or even many other file types can
>simply be "run", similar to double clicking them in the GUI. How would
>that be done in Win32Forth?

In MS-Windows I associate .frt with an editor and type
A> aap.frt
to edit. The same applies probably to html files.
You can try your luck with
"aap.html" SYSTEM

>
>--
>
>Rick C.
--
"in our communism country Viet Nam, people are forced to be
alive and in the western country like US, people are free to
die from Covid 19 lol" duc ha
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

On Thursday, May 19, 2022 at 3:54:57 AM UTC-4, none albert wrote:
> In article <3683c623-5163-46e5...@googlegroups.com>,
> Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 5:07:15 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
> >> I need to prepare some sort of technical manual that would provide a
> >means of debugging a particular board. I was originally planning for it
> >to contain a theory of operation, but also a guide that would provide
> >detailed debug info for the test program. In particular, for each type of
> >failure, it would point to various test points for probing and indicate
> >the nature of the signal to be expected.
> >>
> >> I'm thinking of what medium this would be easiest in. The test program
> >is in Forth on a PC and could incorporate the detailed instructions and
> >the decision tree. It might be a bit harder to bring up the images
> >showing where to probe and the signals expected in the console. But I'm
> >wondering if there's a way to send HTML to a browser page to display
> >this?
> >>
> >> Anyone familiar with an application sending HTML to a browser on the
> >same machine? I'm using Win32Forth.
> >
> >Someone pointed out that an HTML file or even many other file types can
> >simply be "run", similar to double clicking them in the GUI. How would
> >that be done in Win32Forth?
> In MS-Windows I associate .frt with an editor and type
> A> aap.frt
> to edit. The same applies probably to html files.
> You can try your luck with
> "aap.html" SYSTEM

Yes, thanks. I posted about this in another group and they talked about the SYSTEM command which seems like it will do just what I want. It has to be invoked with a command, but I think I already have an example of that for Win32Forth. I use it to init a serial port I believe.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On 18 May 2022 at 23:07:13 CEST, "Rick C" <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I need to prepare some sort of technical manual that would provide a means of
> debugging a particular board. I was originally planning for it to contain a
> theory of operation, but also a guide that would provide detailed debug info
> for the test program. In particular, for each type of failure, it would point
> to various test points for probing and indicate the nature of the signal to be
> expected.
>
> I'm thinking of what medium this would be easiest in. The test program is in
> Forth on a PC and could incorporate the detailed instructions and the decision
> tree. It might be a bit harder to bring up the images showing where to probe
> and the signals expected in the console. But I'm wondering if there's a way to
> send HTML to a browser page to display this?
>
> Anyone familiar with an application sending HTML to a browser on the same
> machine? I'm using Win32Forth.

Win32Forth used to contain a partial clone of MPE's DocGen system. I forget
what it
is called.

Alternatively, use the real thing.

If you really want an interactive HTML system for Forth, talk to me or Gerald
off-line.

Stephen

--
Stephen Pelc, stephen@vfxforth.com
MicroProcessor Engineering, Ltd. - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, +44 (0)78 0390 3612, +34 649 662 974
http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 11:41:01 PM UTC-4, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> Here's a question because I infrequently write Forth code and have trouble separating the different timing of functions in Forth. toquote parses the input buffer, and is used in several words. If I were to use your example code in a word, to parameterize the table, would toquote work correctly, or at all?
>
> <th align=" right" >
>
> In this line, the first word would compile ok, align=" would be compiled as itself, but then right" is not a word and would cause it to fail, no? So would toquote need to be different in order to allow the above line to be part of a compiled word? I think it would need to be immediate and compile to a literal that runs when the outer word is run.
>

Yes I used a dialect of Forth that lets you redirect standard output to a file.

I intended all of these words to be interpreted.
The words totag and toquote are calling PARSE so you are correct, they will not compile.

To compile them would require them to be re-written. When compiling they would need to
compile the string literal into the definition and type it on execution of the definition.

I only know how to do this by making them "state smart" which is deemed to be evil nowadays. :)

In case anyone was interested, I realized I could do the job more easily by not tying it too closely to the test program. There are a limited number of tests and failures, so it makes sense to write more general instructions that guide the operator through the signal flow testing along the way.

One of the main issues is the fact that the chips, which are the primary points of thought in debugging, are not accessible when testing. So the user needs to be pointed to passive components on the accessible side of the board for each point of interest. This is done in screen captures of the layout program and schematic pages. It's only just started, but coming along pretty well.

Thanks for the suggestions.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 11:07:15 PM UTC+2, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> I need to prepare some sort of technical manual that would provide a means of debugging a particular board. I was originally planning for it to contain a theory of operation, but also a guide that would provide detailed debug info for the test program. In particular, for each type of failure, it would point to various test points for probing and indicate the nature of the signal to be expected.
>
> I'm thinking of what medium this would be easiest in. The test program is in Forth on a PC and could incorporate the detailed instructions and the decision tree. It might be a bit harder to bring up the images showing where to probe and the signals expected in the console. But I'm wondering if there's a way to send HTML to a browser page to display this?
>
> Anyone familiar with an application sending HTML to a browser on the same machine? I'm using Win32Forth.
Yeah, plenty - the important question is: does it have to be updated (e.g. automatic reload) on change? Does Forth have to "kick off" the web browser? What are the facilities you need? Just pushing out a table is different from formatted text e.g. with (also updated?) pics.

Kicking off a webbrowser is as easy as a system() call. But it will simply load the page and burn CPU. Why not do it in LaTeX - that offers plenty of ways to (automatically) export it to a multitude of formats, incl. HTML.

Although I've quite a number of HTML libs at my (4tH) disposal, I only use them if they are updated by the program, based on some data it processes. You can do pure HTML, but why the trouble? Just because you can automatically write it in a certain format somewhere?

So, lots of questions - even in the sense whether Forth is the right tool.

Hans Bezemer

https://sourceforge.net/p/forth-4th/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/4th.src/lib/html.4th
https://sourceforge.net/p/forth-4th/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/4th.src/demo/htmldemo.4th

On Wednesday, May 25, 2022 at 11:36:06 AM UTC-4, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 11:07:15 PM UTC+2, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I need to prepare some sort of technical manual that would provide a means of debugging a particular board. I was originally planning for it to contain a theory of operation, but also a guide that would provide detailed debug info for the test program. In particular, for each type of failure, it would point to various test points for probing and indicate the nature of the signal to be expected.
> >
> > I'm thinking of what medium this would be easiest in. The test program is in Forth on a PC and could incorporate the detailed instructions and the decision tree. It might be a bit harder to bring up the images showing where to probe and the signals expected in the console. But I'm wondering if there's a way to send HTML to a browser page to display this?
> >
> > Anyone familiar with an application sending HTML to a browser on the same machine? I'm using Win32Forth.
> Yeah, plenty - the important question is: does it have to be updated (e.g.. automatic reload) on change? Does Forth have to "kick off" the web browser? What are the facilities you need? Just pushing out a table is different from formatted text e.g. with (also updated?) pics.
>
> Kicking off a webbrowser is as easy as a system() call. But it will simply load the page and burn CPU. Why not do it in LaTeX - that offers plenty of ways to (automatically) export it to a multitude of formats, incl. HTML.
>
> Although I've quite a number of HTML libs at my (4tH) disposal, I only use them if they are updated by the program, based on some data it processes. You can do pure HTML, but why the trouble? Just because you can automatically write it in a certain format somewhere?
>
> So, lots of questions - even in the sense whether Forth is the right tool..

When the only tool you have is a hammer...

I stopped using other languages so long ago that I would not want to even try this in anything else. Plus the fact that the test program is already in Forth.

HTML is not hard to write. Some of the details are a bit tricky to learn from the web pages I've found. Mostly it's this.

https://www.w3schools.com

Much is covered very clearly in a teaching way. If you want to look for some detail, it is harder to find.

So far, so good. I'm able to control font sizes and colors, table layouts, etc. Nothing fancy.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209