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programming / alt.lang.asm / Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?

SubjectAuthor
* How to modify values placed on the stack?Mateusz Viste
`* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?JJ
 +* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Mateusz Viste
 |+* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?rick.c.hodgin
 ||`* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Mateusz Viste
 || `* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Rick C. Hodgin
 ||  `* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Mateusz Viste
 ||   +- Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Rick C. Hodgin
 ||   `* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?src153
 ||    `- Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Rick C. Hodgin
 |`* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Robert Wessel
 | `* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Mateusz Viste
 |  +* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?src153
 |  |`- Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Mateusz Viste
 |  `* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?src153
 |   `* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Mateusz Viste
 |    `- Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?src153
 `* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Rod Pemberton
  +* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?src153
  |+* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?src153
  ||`* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Mateusz Viste
  || +- Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Rick C. Hodgin
  || `* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?src153
  ||  `- Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?src153
  |`* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Rod Pemberton
  | `* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?src153
  |  `- Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?rick.c.hodgin
  +* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Mateusz Viste
  |`* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?src153
  | `* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Mateusz Viste
  |  +* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Rick C. Hodgin
  |  |+* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Mateusz Viste
  |  ||`- Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Rick C. Hodgin
  |  |`* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Rod Pemberton
  |  | `* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?src153
  |  |  +* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Mateusz Viste
  |  |  |`* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?src153
  |  |  | `* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Mateusz Viste
  |  |  |  +* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Kerr-Mudd,John
  |  |  |  |+* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Mateusz Viste
  |  |  |  ||`* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Kerr-Mudd,John
  |  |  |  || `* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Mateusz Viste
  |  |  |  ||  `* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Martin Str|mberg
  |  |  |  ||   `- Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Martin Str|mberg
  |  |  |  |`* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Martin Str|mberg
  |  |  |  | `* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Kerr-Mudd,John
  |  |  |  |  `- Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Martin Str|mberg
  |  |  |  +- Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?src153
  |  |  |  +- Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?vit$oft
  |  |  |  `* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?vit$oft
  |  |  |   `- Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Kerr-Mudd,John
  |  |  +* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Rod Pemberton
  |  |  |+- Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?src153
  |  |  |`- Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Robert Wessel
  |  |  `- Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Rod Pemberton
  |  `* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?src153
  |   `* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Mateusz Viste
  |    +* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Ned Latham
  |    |`* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Rod Pemberton
  |    | `* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Robert Wessel
  |    |  `* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Rod Pemberton
  |    |   `- Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?src153
  |    `* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Robert Wessel
  |     `* Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Mateusz Viste
  |      `- Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?Robert Wessel
  `- Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?JJ

Pages:123
Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
From: Kerr-Mudd,John
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Organization: dis
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 18:43 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: notsay...@invalid.org (Kerr-Mudd,John)
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 18:43:34 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: dis
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On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 12:17:58 GMT, Mateusz Viste <mateusz@wont.tell>
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 10:12:16 +0000, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
In the WAITSOMEMORE part you use 1 and 0 several times; I suggest
setting say dx to 0001, so you can get shorter encodings for cmp/mov
[var],0/1

Indeed, good move! That saved a grand total of 2 bytes.

Mateusz

It's a start; you also use 'inc' to nonzero some vars; would mov [var],
dl be OK there? - another 2 bytes in the bag!


--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.


Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
From: Mateusz Viste
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Organization: Guest of ProXad - France
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 20:32 UTC
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From: mate...@wont.tell (Mateusz Viste)
Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
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On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 18:43:34 +0000, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:

On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 12:17:58 GMT, Mateusz Viste <mateusz@wont.tell>
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 10:12:16 +0000, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
In the WAITSOMEMORE part you use 1 and 0 several times; I suggest
setting say dx to 0001, so you can get shorter encodings for cmp/mov
[var],0/1

Indeed, good move! That saved a grand total of 2 bytes.

Mateusz

It's a start; you also use 'inc' to nonzero some vars; would mov [var],
dl be OK there? - another 2 bytes in the bag!

Nice try, but it seems NASM is not sharing your optimism. :)

    FE06B300        inc byte [BYTEVAR]
    8836B300        mov [BYTEVAR], dh

Mateusz


Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
From: Rod Pemberton
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 07:49 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!.POSTED.+15yR2JuBIwiofOqK4kSZw.user.gioia.aioe.org!not-for-mail
From: inva...@lkntrgzxc.com (Rod Pemberton)
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 03:49:16 -0400
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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On Wed, 02 Oct 2019 14:20:49 +0000
src153 <src153@protocol.invalid> wrote:

On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 09:40:22 -0400, Rod Pemberton wrote:

Maskable interrupts are inhibited by CLI.  Non-maskable interrupts
will still fire and can fire at any time.  These are things like
division-by-zero (a trap, which always signals), memory failures,
math co-processor errors, etc. 

Divide by zero?  That's a software interrupt, IRQ 0 

DIV0 is an exception.

Except, the 8086 didn't have any exceptions.

The 8086 manual had, quote: "The interrupt is non-maskable" for INTO
overflow and divide-by-zero errors, i.e., from DIV and IDIV.

The 80186 manual starts to use the term "exception" but not the
same way as in later manuals.

The 08286 manual introduced the term "exception" as we use it today
mostly for non-maskable processor hardware exceptions.


So, in summary, the 8086 had two "exceptions" both of which are
explicitly specified as non-maskable software interrupts.  Since
they're both triggered via code execution (DIV, IDIV, INTO), and the
8086 has no processor hardware exceptions, how do you (or Rick) expect
that either of the two exceptions to interrupt the double xchg code? ...


Rod Pemberton
--
Facebook privacy is like a leaky bucket of water.



Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
From: Rod Pemberton
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 07:49 UTC
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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!.POSTED.+15yR2JuBIwiofOqK4kSZw.user.gioia.aioe.org!not-for-mail
From: inva...@lkntrgzxc.com (Rod Pemberton)
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 03:49:34 -0400
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On Wed, 02 Oct 2019 14:20:49 +0000
src153 <src153@protocol.invalid> wrote:

On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 09:40:22 -0400, Rod Pemberton wrote:

Maskable interrupts are inhibited by CLI.  Non-maskable interrupts
will still fire and can fire at any time.  These are things like
division-by-zero (a trap, which always signals), memory failures,
math co-processor errors, etc. 

Divide by zero?  That's a software interrupt, IRQ 0 

DIV0 is an exception. Exceptions are not inhibited by CLI.

a) Software interrupts "are not inhibited by CLI" either:

"The INT instruction is not maskable by the interrupt enable flag.",
Intel AP-67, pg A-26

b) Hardware NMIs "are not inhibited by CLI" either, because they're
non-maskable.

So, that's three things which are "not inhibited by CLI".  Are you
beginning to wonder what your point is or was? ...  I am.


Rod Pemberton
--
Facebook privacy is like a leaky bucket of water.




Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
From: Rod Pemberton
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 07:50 UTC
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From: inva...@lkntrgzxc.com (Rod Pemberton)
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 03:50:03 -0400
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On Wed, 02 Oct 2019 17:36:11 -0500
Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 09:40:02 -0400, Rod Pemberton
<invalid@lkntrgzxc.com> wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2019 05:14:02 -0500
Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> wrote:

I've worked with a few chips here and there: never heard of one
that allowed disabling a Non-Maskable Interrupt.
 

The x86 allows disabling NMI's via the CMOS.  This requires writing a
value to an I/O port followed by a read.  I.e., OUT 0x8D to 0x70
(upper bit disables, 0x0D is safe CMOS port, then IN 0x70. 

That's a function of the PC architecture, not x86.

No, it's not "a function of the PC architecture".  Other PC's like the
Commodore 64, Timex Sinclair, Amiga, Apple IIs, McIntosh don't have that
functionality.  You meant it's a "function of the IBM PC clone
architecture", of which I would agree.  It's not an x86 processor
feature.  So, I stand self-corrected.


Rod Pemberton
--
The U.S. government can't allow a government employee to anonymously
attack the President of the U.S.



Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
From: src153
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 14:10 UTC
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From: src...@protocol.invalid (src153)
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2019 14:10:56 +0000
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On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 03:49:16 -0400, Rod Pemberton wrote:

how do you (or Rick) expect that either of the two exceptions
to interrupt the double xchg code

Trashing SP with an unknown value is never a good idea, not even for a
nanosecond. It misleads novice programmers unaware of the danger. Trying
to be clever is not good leadership.

Never sacrifice safety for micro optimization.


Are you beginning to wonder what your point is

People who want to show how clever they are, just don't get the point.





Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
From: src153
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 15:20 UTC
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From: src...@protocol.invalid (src153)
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2019 15:20:45 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 03:50:03 -0400, Rod Pemberton wrote:
 
That's a function of the PC architecture, not x86.

You meant it's a "function of the IBM PC clone architecture",

I understood that without being told.


of which I would agree ... It's not an x86 processor feature.

You seem argumentative.


So, I stand self-corrected.

Maybe unhappy too. Atheism can do that to people.





Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
From: Robert Wessel
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Organization: Forte - www.forteinc.com
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2019 18:03 UTC
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From: robertwe...@yahoo.com (Robert Wessel)
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
Message-ID: <752fpe9motdfdedaqgs711d0jsqgk02rvo@4ax.com>
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On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 03:49:16 -0400, Rod Pemberton
<invalid@lkntrgzxc.com> wrote:

On Wed, 02 Oct 2019 14:20:49 +0000
src153 <src153@protocol.invalid> wrote:

On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 09:40:22 -0400, Rod Pemberton wrote:

Maskable interrupts are inhibited by CLI.  Non-maskable interrupts
will still fire and can fire at any time.  These are things like
division-by-zero (a trap, which always signals), memory failures,
math co-processor errors, etc. 

Divide by zero?  That's a software interrupt, IRQ 0 

DIV0 is an exception.

Except, the 8086 didn't have any exceptions.

The 8086 manual had, quote: "The interrupt is non-maskable" for INTO
overflow and divide-by-zero errors, i.e., from DIV and IDIV.

The 80186 manual starts to use the term "exception" but not the
same way as in later manuals.

The 08286 manual introduced the term "exception" as we use it today
mostly for non-maskable processor hardware exceptions.


So, in summary, the 8086 had two "exceptions" both of which are
explicitly specified as non-maskable software interrupts.  Since
they're both triggered via code execution (DIV, IDIV, INTO), and the
8086 has no processor hardware exceptions, how do you (or Rick) expect
that either of the two exceptions to interrupt the double xchg code? ...


There's always the single-step debug interrupt.  And a real-mode
debugger needs to assume at least a few words of valid stack.


Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
From: vit$oft
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2019 22:20 UTC
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Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
From: pavel.sr...@gmail.com (vit$oft)
Injection-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2019 22:20:49 +0000
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On Thursday, October 3, 2019 at 9:43:22 AM UTC+2, Mateusz Viste wrote:
I am looking for ways to make the TSR part smaller
The idea I will work on next evening is to misuse the PSP area. The
command-line tail takes 127 bytes, and I don't need that much.

You can misuse the whole command line tail (alias DTA) and both File Control Blocks,too, after cmdline parameters have been parsed. In fact only 53h bytes of PSP are necessary, see the example at http://euroasm.localhost/prodos16/tsrup.htm



Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
From: vit$oft
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2019 22:39 UTC
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Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
From: pavel.sr...@gmail.com (vit$oft)
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On Thursday, October 3, 2019 at 9:43:22 AM UTC+2, Mateusz Viste wrote:
I am looking for ways to make the TSR part smaller
The idea I will work on next evening is to misuse the PSP area. The
command-line tail takes 127 bytes, and I don't need that much.

You can misuse the whole command line tail (alias DTA) and both File Control Blocks,too, after cmdline parameters have been parsed. In fact only 53h bytes of PSP are necessary, see the example at https://euroassembler.eu/prodos16/tsrup.htm


Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
From: Kerr-Mudd,John
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Organization: dis
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 08:26 UTC
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From: notsay...@invalid.org (Kerr-Mudd,John)
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 08:26:50 -0000 (UTC)
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On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 22:39:10 GMT, "vit$oft" <pavel.srubar@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Thursday, October 3, 2019 at 9:43:22 AM UTC+2, Mateusz Viste wrote:
I am looking for ways to make the TSR part smaller
The idea I will work on next evening is to misuse the PSP area. The
command-line tail takes 127 bytes, and I don't need that much.

You can misuse the whole command line tail (alias DTA) and both File
Control Blocks,too, after cmdline parameters have been parsed. In fact
only 53h bytes of PSP are necessary, see the example at
https://euroassembler.eu/prodos16/tsrup.htm

Very nice; but I'd prefer nasm syntax. I guess I could do that.


--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.


Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
From: Martin Str|mberg
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 10:49 UTC
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From: ams...@ludd.luth.se (Martin Str|mberg)
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 10:49:58 +0000 (UTC)
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Kerr-Mudd,John <notsaying@invalid.org> wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 07:43:21 GMT, Mateusz Viste <mateusz@wont.tell>
wrote:
Ooh, I love a size challenge!

Oh, but it is a public project. I thought I posted a link to it
before, but perhaps I'm old already. Here it is:

https://sourceforge.net/p/ethflop/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/ethflop.asm

Feel free to peek at it. I am looking for ways to make the TSR part
smaller - that is, everything from the top of the program until the
"PROGSTART" label (about 540 lines). But not necessarily "smaller at
any cost", ie. the code source should stay moderately readable.

Must a TSR need to start with jmp <something>?
You can shave off those bytes by having the setup part at start, copy
that somewhere else, jumping there and rep movs in the TSR
part. Obviously need to make sure the TSR part is built for the right
place and placed for copying somewhere else.

Hmm. Easiest would probably just have the TSR part offset X (four?)
bytes in program code, jumping over it and shift it back X bytes. Then
you don't need to copy the setup part which would be overwritten.

I think I did such crazy things in FDXMS.


--
MartinS


Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
From: Martin Str|mberg
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 10:54 UTC
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From: ams...@ludd.luth.se (Martin Str|mberg)
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 10:54:27 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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Mateusz Viste <mateusz@wont.tell> wrote:
It's a start; you also use 'inc' to nonzero some vars; would mov [var],
dl be OK there? - another 2 bytes in the bag!

Nice try, but it seems NASM is not sharing your optimism. :)

    FE06B300        inc byte [BYTEVAR]
    8836B300        mov [BYTEVAR], dh

That must be because of byte size variable. Change to "word" size and
if you have the inc in more than two places a net win.


--
MartinS


Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
From: Martin Str|mberg
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 10:57 UTC
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From: ams...@ludd.luth.se (Martin Str|mberg)
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 10:57:46 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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Martin Str|mberg <ams@ludd.luth.se> wrote:
rubbish:
That must be because of byte size variable. Change to "word" size and
if you have the inc in more than two places a net win.

See what happens if you don't check by compiling your suggestions.

--
MartinS


Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
From: Kerr-Mudd,John
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Organization: dis
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 12:00 UTC
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From: notsay...@invalid.org (Kerr-Mudd,John)
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 12:00:50 -0000 (UTC)
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On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 10:49:58 GMT, Martin Str|mberg <ams@ludd.luth.se>
wrote:

Kerr-Mudd,John <notsaying@invalid.org> wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 07:43:21 GMT, Mateusz Viste <mateusz@wont.tell>
wrote:
Ooh, I love a size challenge!

Oh, but it is a public project. I thought I posted a link to it
before, but perhaps I'm old already. Here it is:

https://sourceforge.net/p/ethflop/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/ethflop.asm

Feel free to peek at it. I am looking for ways to make the TSR part
smaller - that is, everything from the top of the program until the
"PROGSTART" label (about 540 lines). But not necessarily "smaller at
any cost", ie. the code source should stay moderately readable.

Must a TSR need to start with jmp <something>?
You can shave off those bytes by having the setup part at start, copy
that somewhere else, jumping there and rep movs in the TSR
part. Obviously need to make sure the TSR part is built for the right
place and placed for copying somewhere else.

Hmm. Easiest would probably just have the TSR part offset X (four?)
2 bytes for a short jump; but is it really worth the code to save that
little; anyhow one of the posters TSR setup code moves the TSR back to
0x53, saving (0x100-0x53) of PSP overhead. If your TSR is simple you
might be able to save the whole PSP?

bytes in program code, jumping over it and shift it back X bytes. Then
you don't need to copy the setup part which would be overwritten.

I think I did such crazy things in FDXMS.





--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.


Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
From: Martin Str|mberg
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 12:23 UTC
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From: ams...@ludd.luth.se (Martin Str|mberg)
Newsgroups: alt.lang.asm
Subject: Re: How to modify values placed on the stack?
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 12:23:18 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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Kerr-Mudd,John <notsaying@invalid.org> wrote:
2 bytes for a short jump; but is it really worth the code to save that
little; anyhow one of the posters TSR setup code moves the TSR back to

Don't every little byte count?

0x53, saving (0x100-0x53) of PSP overhead. If your TSR is simple you

Nice/clever.


--
MartinS


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