The chat bot seems to give correct answers in a consesus style.

How would you describe the programming language FORTH?

Forth is a high-level, imperative programming language and environment originally developed by Charles H. Moore in the late 1960s and early 1970s. It is known for its conciseness and interactivity, as well as its use of reverse Polish notation (RPN) for writing programs. Unlike many other programming languages, which use syntax based on natural language or mathematical notation, Forth uses a simple, stack-based syntax. This allows programs to be written in a very terse, compact form, but can also make them difficult for beginners to read and understand. Despite its challenges, Forth has a loyal following and is used in a variety of applications, including embedded systems and operating systems.

On 8/12/2022 7:54 pm, lehs wrote:
> The chat bot seems to give correct answers in a consesus style.
>
> How would you describe the programming language FORTH?
> ...

Same old lies?

- Forth is known for its conciseness
- other programming languages [...] use syntax based on natural language
- Forth [...] allows programs to be written in a very terse, compact form
- [...] makes them difficult for beginners to read and understand
- Forth has a loyal following

At least the last is true :)

torsdag 8 december 2022 kl. 09:54:20 UTC+1 skrev lehs:
> The chat bot seems to give correct answers in a consesus style.
>
> How would you describe the programming language FORTH?
>
> Forth is a high-level, imperative programming language and environment originally developed by Charles H. Moore in the late 1960s and early 1970s. It is known for its conciseness and interactivity, as well as its use of reverse Polish notation (RPN) for writing programs. Unlike many other programming languages, which use syntax based on natural language or mathematical notation, Forth uses a simple, stack-based syntax. This allows programs to be written in a very terse, compact form, but can also make them difficult for beginners to read and understand. Despite its challenges, Forth has a loyal following and is used in a variety of applications, including embedded systems and operating systems.

More from ChatGPT:

There are several basic concepts and techniques that are commonly used in AI programming. Some of the most important ones include:

Machine learning algorithms: These are algorithms that allow a computer to learn from data, without being explicitly programmed. Machine learning algorithms are often used in AI programs to enable them to improve their performance over time, by learning from new data.

Knowledge representation: This refers to the way in which knowledge and information are represented in a computer program. In AI programs, knowledge is often represented using symbolic logic or other formal languages, which allow the program to reason about and manipulate the information it contains..

Natural language processing: This is the ability of a computer program to understand and process human language. AI programs often use natural language processing techniques to enable them to communicate and interact with humans in a natural and intuitive way.

Reasoning and problem solving: AI programs often need to be able to reason and solve problems in order to make decisions and take appropriate actions. This can involve using logical reasoning, planning, and other techniques to find solutions to complex problems.

Robotics: Many AI programs are designed to control and interact with physical devices, such as robots. This can involve using sensors and actuators to perceive and act on the world, as well as algorithms for motion planning and control.

torsdag 8 december 2022 kl. 20:07:23 UTC+1 skrev lehs:
> torsdag 8 december 2022 kl. 09:54:20 UTC+1 skrev lehs:
> > The chat bot seems to give correct answers in a consesus style.
> >
> > How would you describe the programming language FORTH?
> >
> > Forth is a high-level, imperative programming language and environment originally developed by Charles H. Moore in the late 1960s and early 1970s. It is known for its conciseness and interactivity, as well as its use of reverse Polish notation (RPN) for writing programs. Unlike many other programming languages, which use syntax based on natural language or mathematical notation, Forth uses a simple, stack-based syntax. This allows programs to be written in a very terse, compact form, but can also make them difficult for beginners to read and understand. Despite its challenges, Forth has a loyal following and is used in a variety of applications, including embedded systems and operating systems.
> More from ChatGPT:
>
> There are several basic concepts and techniques that are commonly used in AI programming. Some of the most important ones include:
>
> Machine learning algorithms: These are algorithms that allow a computer to learn from data, without being explicitly programmed. Machine learning algorithms are often used in AI programs to enable them to improve their performance over time, by learning from new data.
>
> Knowledge representation: This refers to the way in which knowledge and information are represented in a computer program. In AI programs, knowledge is often represented using symbolic logic or other formal languages, which allow the program to reason about and manipulate the information it contains.
>
> Natural language processing: This is the ability of a computer program to understand and process human language. AI programs often use natural language processing techniques to enable them to communicate and interact with humans in a natural and intuitive way.
>
> Reasoning and problem solving: AI programs often need to be able to reason and solve problems in order to make decisions and take appropriate actions. This can involve using logical reasoning, planning, and other techniques to find solutions to complex problems.
>
> Robotics: Many AI programs are designed to control and interact with physical devices, such as robots. This can involve using sensors and actuators to perceive and act on the world, as well as algorithms for motion planning and control.

Warning! ChatGPT is really bad Forth programmer.

On 9/12/2022 6:07 am, lehs wrote:
> More from ChatGPT:
> ...
> Natural language processing: This is the ability of a computer program to understand and process human language. AI programs often use natural language processing techniques to enable them to communicate and interact with humans in a natural and intuitive way.

Human language comes in many flavours...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_order

This suggests to me language is learnt and not "natural and intuitive" at all.

On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 1:54:20 AM UTC-7, lehs wrote:
> The chat bot seems to give correct answers in a consesus style.
>
> How would you describe the programming language FORTH?
>
> Forth is a high-level, imperative programming language and environment originally developed by Charles H. Moore in the late 1960s and early 1970s. It is known for its conciseness and interactivity, as well as its use of reverse Polish notation (RPN) for writing programs. Unlike many other programming languages, which use syntax based on natural language or mathematical notation, Forth uses a simple, stack-based syntax. This allows programs to be written in a very terse, compact form, but can also make them difficult for beginners to read and understand. Despite its challenges, Forth has a loyal following and is used in a variety of applications, including embedded systems and operating systems.

More fun with ChatGPT:

"Who uses the forth programming language?"

The Forth programming language is used by a variety of individuals and organizations for a variety of purposes. Some people use Forth as their primary programming language, while others use it for specific tasks or as a tool for experimentation. Forth has a dedicated following of users who appreciate its simplicity, power, and flexibility. It is often used in embedded systems, scientific and engineering applications, and systems programming. Some notable users of Forth include NASA, Motorola, and Xerox.

"What are the advantages of the forth programming language?"

Some of the advantages of the Forth programming language include:

Simplicity: Forth is a simple and concise language, making it easy to learn and use.
Interactive development: Forth is an interactive language, allowing the programmer to test and debug code as it is being written.
Flexibility: Forth is a flexible language that allows the programmer to define new words (functions) and create domain-specific languages.
Extensibility: Forth can be easily extended with libraries and modules written in Forth or other languages.
Efficiency: Forth programs can be highly efficient, as the language is designed to minimize overhead and enable tight control over the hardware.
Portability: Forth programs can be easily ported to different platforms, as the language is independent of any particular hardware or operating system..
Concurrency: Forth supports concurrent programming, allowing multiple processes to run simultaneously.

Overall, the simplicity and flexibility of Forth make it a powerful tool for a variety of programming tasks.

"What are the disadvantages of the forth programming language?"

Some of the potential disadvantages of the Forth programming language include:

Lack of popularity: Forth is not as widely used as other programming languages, so there may be a smaller pool of developers with experience in Forth.
Lack of support: There may be fewer resources and tools available for Forth developers, compared to more popular languages.
Stack-based syntax: Forth uses a stack-based syntax, which can be difficult to read and understand for programmers who are not familiar with this style of programming.
Lack of standardization: There are several different versions of Forth, and there is no official standard for the language. This can make it difficult to write portable code that can run on different Forth implementations.
Limited library support: There may be fewer libraries and frameworks available for Forth compared to other languages, which can make it more difficult to develop certain types of applications.
Overall, while Forth has a number of advantages, it may not be the best choice for every programming task due to its lack of popularity and the challenges associated with its stack-based syntax.

"Is Forth a dead language?"

Forth is not a "dead" language, but it is not as widely used as it was in the past. Forth was very popular in the 1970s and 1980s, but it has since declined in popularity as other languages such as C, C++, and Java have become more dominant. Today, Forth is used by a smaller community of dedicated users, but it is not as commonly taught in schools or used in industry as it once was.

Despite its decline in popularity, Forth is still in active use and development, and it has a dedicated following of users who appreciate its simplicity, power, and flexibility. There are also a number of commercial and open-source implementations of Forth available, and the language is regularly updated and improved.

"Do chat bots have a sense of humor?"

As a chatbot, I do not have feelings or emotions, and therefore do not have a sense of humor in the same way that humans do. While I can provide responses to jokes or humorous statements, my understanding of humor is based on predefined rules and patterns in my programming, rather than a genuine appreciation of the funny or amusing aspects of a situation.

That being said, chatbots and artificial intelligence systems can be designed to recognize and respond to humor in various ways. For example, a chatbot might be programmed to recognize and respond to certain types of jokes or humorous statements, or to recognize and respond to a user's attempts at humor. However, these responses are based on pre-determined rules and patterns rather than a true understanding or appreciation of humor.

> On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 1:54:20 AM UTC-7, lehs wrote:
[..]
> Stack-based syntax: Forth uses a stack-based syntax, which can be difficult to read and
> understand for programmers who are not familiar with this style of programming.

I didn't expect this one to come from a bot, as it lacks a logical basis. Does it advise
against object-oriented programming, or APL, or Python (required indentation..) with
such reasoning?
[..]
> "Do chat bots have a sense of humor?"
> ... or to recognize and respond to a user's attempts at humor. ...
[..]
I found this funny.

BTW, I think a sizable part of the code is dedicated to handling this kind of
self-referencing questions, and another chunk in making sure to reply
cautiously to questions that may harm the user when the answer is taken
even slightly seriously.

-marcel

Marcel Hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> writes:
>> On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 1:54:20 AM UTC-7, lehs wrote:
>[..]
>> Stack-based syntax: Forth uses a stack-based syntax, which can be difficult to read and
>> understand for programmers who are not familiar with this style of programming.
>
>I didn't expect this one to come from a bot, as it lacks a logical basis. Does it advise
>against object-oriented programming, or APL, or Python (required indentation..) with
>such reasoning?

Why would you expect a logical basis from the answers of the bot?
It's just a glorified parrot, so if it reads the stuff above often
enough, it will produce it. And if it does not for OOP, APL, or
Python, it won't.

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
EuroForth 2022: https://euro.theforth.net

On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 8:11:58 PM UTC+1, lehs wrote:
> Warning! ChatGPT is really bad Forth programmer.
So true! And it doesn't always act logical. I asked it to make a fast integer square root word.
To my surprise it came back with something that resembled Forth. But it bombed due to
stack errors. And it's stack diagram was - let's say - special: ( n -- sqrt(n))

Now I don't know about your implementation of (, but mine looks for the first ) and doesn't
handle embedded ). So I told it. It agreed with me and came up with n -- sqrt(n) - which
is obviously worse. So I pointed that out and it came with the previous incarnation of that
comment.

So what I did is I fed it a WORKING SQRT routine. And it denied it was correct by listing all
the meanings of the words involved - like "DROP", discards the TOS.

Finally, I gave up, because subsequent queries only returned variations of its first attempts.
I can't say this reminded me of interactions with an intelligent person. It would at least have
learned something from our previous interactions - given he had a working knowledge of
Forth.

So no - there were my dreams of a partner writing and optimizing my code, scattered all over
the place.

However, it did correctly identify who loves the song "Soft Kitty, warm Kitty, little ball of fur" ;-)

Hans Bezemer

I'd like to give a shout-out to W. Gibson and "The Peripheral". From chapter 104, "The Red Medici":

"“Second order of business,” said Ash, opening her hand, palm up, to reveal what Netherton assumed was a Medici, but red. “This will install a cognitive bundle that will enable you to sound something like a neoprimitivist curator. If not to another neoprimitivist curator, though I’d imagine that’s debatable.”
..
..
..
Ash leaned forward to remove the Medici, then tucked it into her reticule. “We’ll just test it,” she said to Flynne. “Tell us, please, why you think Daedra West’s art is important today..”
Flynne looked at her. “West’s oeuvre obliquely propels the viewer through an elaborately finite set of iterations, skeins of carnal memory manifesting an exquisite tenderness, but delimited by our mythologies of the real, of body. It isn’t about who we are now, but about who we would be, the other.” She blinked. “Fucking hell.” The peripheral’s eyes were wide.
“I’d hoped for something in a more colloquial register,” said Ash, “but I suppose that’s a contradiction in terms. Try not to let it run on. The thinness will show.”

fredag 6 januari 2023 kl. 19:52:25 UTC+1 skrev Anton Ertl:
> Marcel Hendrix <m...@iae.nl> writes:
> >> On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 1:54:20 AM UTC-7, lehs wrote:
> >[..]
> >> Stack-based syntax: Forth uses a stack-based syntax, which can be difficult to read and
> >> understand for programmers who are not familiar with this style of programming.
> >
> >I didn't expect this one to come from a bot, as it lacks a logical basis. Does it advise
> >against object-oriented programming, or APL, or Python (required indentation..) with
> >such reasoning?
> Why would you expect a logical basis from the answers of the bot?
> It's just a glorified parrot, so if it reads the stuff above often
> enough, it will produce it. And if it does not for OOP, APL, or
> Python, it won't.
>
> - anton
> --
> M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
> comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
> New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
> EuroForth 2022: https://euro.theforth.net
What GPT can do is to interpret natural languages search for adequate information and present the information in a mostly correct but sameness way. It's all about human consensus and it isn't able to recognize a new idea not included in it's training.

However, it seems to be able to form simple proofs of simple mathematical theorems as: prove there is only one even prime!