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devel / comp.lang.python / Re: Question(s)

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Question(s)o1bigtenor
`- Re: Question(s)Dan Purgert

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Re: Question(s)

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 by: o1bigtenor - Tue, 24 Oct 2023 23:08 UTC

On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 5:28 PM Rob Cliffe <rob.cliffe@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> There is no general way to prove that a program is "correct". Or even
> whether it will terminate or loop endlessly.
> These are of course theoretical statements of computer science. But
> they can be rigorously proven. (Sorry if I'm just saying this to show
> what a smart-ass I am. 🙂)
> In practice, of course, there is often a great deal that can be done to
> "verify" (a word whose meaning I intentionally leave vague) a program's
> correctness.
> In your case, it sounds as if you should
>
> Write programs or functions to simulate each piece of hardware and
> generate random, but reasonably realistic, data. (Python and most other
> programming languages provide means of generating random or
> pseudo-random data.)
> In your main program:
> Replace the bits of code that accept data from the hardware by
> bits of code that accept data from these simulation programs/functions.
> Write the decisions it makes to a log file (or files).
> Run the program as long as you can or until your patience is
> exhausted, and check from the log file(s) that it is behaving as you
> would expect.
>
> This is not guaranteed to catch all possible errors. (Nothing is.) E.g.
> The original code to accept data from the hardware (code that you
> remove in your test version of the program) might be wrong. Duh!
> There might be specific sets of input data that happen not to arise
> in your testing, but that your program logic does not cope with.
> Nonetheless, this sort of testing (if done diligently) can give you a
> high degree of confidence in your program.
> And it is a good idea to do it.
> When you come to run your program "for real", and you have to
> troubleshoot it (as in real life you probably will🙁), you will have
> eliminated simple bugs in your program, and can concentrate on the more
> likely sources of problems (e.g. misbehaving hardware).
>
Interesting - - - hopefully taken in the same vein as your second statement - -
I sorta sounds like programmers keep running around in the forest looking
for trees. (Grin!)

So how does one test software then?

Tia

Re: Question(s)

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From: dan...@djph.net (Dan Purgert)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Subject: Re: Question(s)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 09:23:28 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Dan Purgert - Wed, 25 Oct 2023 09:23 UTC

On 2023-10-24, o1bigtenor wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 5:28 PM Rob Cliffe <rob.cliffe@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>> There is no general way to prove that a program is "correct". Or even
>> whether it will terminate or loop endlessly.
>> [...]
>> When you come to run your program "for real", and you have to
>> troubleshoot it (as in real life you probably will🙁), you will have
>> eliminated simple bugs in your program, and can concentrate on the more
>> likely sources of problems (e.g. misbehaving hardware).
>>
> Interesting - - - hopefully taken in the same vein as your second
> statement - - I sorta sounds like programmers keep running around in
> the forest looking for trees. (Grin!)

No, you tend to know what parts of the spec are "wrong(tm)" (either in
the language you're working in, or the hardware).

If it comes to working with customers (as mentioned in one response),
you start to learn the questions to get at what they really want (but
that's better left to the architect :) )

>
> So how does one test software then?

You write unit tests (usually scripts or other software that can
interact with the main program to twiddle the knobs and such, and ensure
it's doing what was specified). Alternatively, you have to program your
hardware and test directly on that.

--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

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