“UNIX co-creator Ken Thompson is a… what user now?”
https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/17/ken_thompson_is_a_maccie/

“Although Thompson is now 80 years old, he most recently worked at
Google, where he co-developed Go… although his hiring caused problems:
he refused to take the company's mandatory C proficiency test, on the
feeble pretext that he designed the C language.”

Bold.

Lynn

On 3/20/2023 3:48 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> “UNIX co-creator Ken Thompson is a… what user now?”
>    https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/17/ken_thompson_is_a_maccie/
>
> “Although Thompson is now 80 years old, he most recently worked at
> Google, where he co-developed Go… although his hiring caused problems:
> he refused to take the company's mandatory C proficiency test, on the
> feeble pretext that he designed the C language.”
>
> Bold.

He printed out the proficiency test on toilet paper and used it... lol!
Sorry. Being heavily sarcastic here. ;^)

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
> “UNIX co-creator Ken Thompson is a… what user now?”
> https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/17/ken_thompson_is_a_maccie/
>
> “Although Thompson is now 80 years old, he most recently worked at
> Google, where he co-developed Go… although his hiring caused problems:
> he refused to take the company's mandatory C proficiency test, on the
> feeble pretext that he designed the C language.”

I thought you were joking, so I found this:

https://www.theregister.com/2010/04/21/ken_thompson_take_our_test/

Seems he did refuse. But that article said he has not
"gotten around" to take it. But I think he probably
thinking the test is silly for him to take and was being
nice. :)

Still working ay 80, wow.

--
[t]csh(1) - "An elegant shell, for a more... civilized age."
- Paraphrasing Star Wars

John McCue <jmccue@magnetar.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> writes:
>Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>> “UNIX co-creator Ken Thompson is a… what user now?”
>> https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/17/ken_thompson_is_a_maccie/
>>
>> “Although Thompson is now 80 years old, he most recently worked at
>> Google, where he co-developed Go… although his hiring caused problems:
>> he refused to take the company's mandatory C proficiency test, on the
>> feeble pretext that he designed the C language.”
>
>I thought you were joking, so I found this:
>
>https://www.theregister.com/2010/04/21/ken_thompson_take_our_test/
>
>Seems he did refuse. But that article said he has not
>"gotten around" to take it. But I think he probably
>thinking the test is silly for him to take and was being
>nice. :)

Being able to check in code at google is dependent upon
passing the test. He never checked anything in, so he
never needed to pass the test (or be grandfathered in)
during his time developing Go.

In article <LWoSL.1994684$GNG9.1432485@fx18.iad>,
Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>John McCue <jmccue@magnetar.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> writes:
>>Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> “UNIX co-creator Ken Thompson is a… what user now?”
>>> https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/17/ken_thompson_is_a_maccie/
>>>
>>> “Although Thompson is now 80 years old, he most recently worked at
>>> Google, where he co-developed Go… although his hiring caused problems:
>>> he refused to take the company's mandatory C proficiency test, on the
>>> feeble pretext that he designed the C language.”
>>
>>I thought you were joking, so I found this:
>>
>>https://www.theregister.com/2010/04/21/ken_thompson_take_our_test/
>>
>>Seems he did refuse. But that article said he has not
>>"gotten around" to take it. But I think he probably
>>thinking the test is silly for him to take and was being
>>nice. :)
>
>Being able to check in code at google is dependent upon
>passing the test. He never checked anything in, so he
>never needed to pass the test (or be grandfathered in)
>during his time developing Go.

Not exactly.

There is a process one can go through called "readability" that
basically demonstrates that you've read and sufficiently
internalized the Google style guide that you can produce code of
decent quality that conforms to it. I don't know if that's the
"mandatory C proficiency test" the Register article is talking
about, or if they're talking about some pre-hire coding quiz.
For that matter, I don't believe that there was _C_ readability;
rather, it was for C++ (and similarly for other languages).

Not having readability doesn't mean that you cannot check code
in, it just means that you have to get the code reviewed by
someone who _does_ have readability in the language in question.
Often times this is the same person who's the primary reviewer
anyway (to a first order approximations, all changes at Google
have to be reviewed by another engineer).

Ken checked in lots of code during his time at Google, including
well before Go was a thing. I don't know whether he had C++
readability or not, though.

- Dan C.

On 21/03/2023 20:12, John McCue wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>> “UNIX co-creator Ken Thompson is a… what user now?”
>> https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/17/ken_thompson_is_a_maccie/
>>
>> “Although Thompson is now 80 years old, he most recently worked at
>> Google, where he co-developed Go… although his hiring caused problems:
>> he refused to take the company's mandatory C proficiency test, on the
>> feeble pretext that he designed the C language.”
> I thought you were joking, so I found this:
>
> https://www.theregister.com/2010/04/21/ken_thompson_take_our_test/
>
> Seems he did refuse. But that article said he has not
> "gotten around" to take it. But I think he probably
> thinking the test is silly for him to take and was being
> nice. :)
>
> Still working ay 80, wow.
>
He designed the language in the 60s and 70s. In 2023 the C language is
quite different so he should be required to take a test to test his
knowledge of modern thinking.

People who created the language are not necessarily the best programmers
in town. I bet Stroustrup will confirm this.

In article <tvde84$ag4p$1@dont-email.me>,
Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>On 21/03/2023 20:12, John McCue wrote:
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> “UNIX co-creator Ken Thompson is a… what user now?”
>>> https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/17/ken_thompson_is_a_maccie/
>>>
>>> “Although Thompson is now 80 years old, he most recently worked at
>>> Google, where he co-developed Go… although his hiring caused problems:
>>> he refused to take the company's mandatory C proficiency test, on the
>>> feeble pretext that he designed the C language.”
>> I thought you were joking, so I found this:
>>
>> https://www.theregister.com/2010/04/21/ken_thompson_take_our_test/
>>
>> Seems he did refuse. But that article said he has not
>> "gotten around" to take it. But I think he probably
>> thinking the test is silly for him to take and was being
>> nice. :)
>>
>> Still working ay 80, wow.
>
>He designed the language in the 60s and 70s. In 2023 the C language is
>quite different so he should be required to take a test to test his
>knowledge of modern thinking.

Oh my. There's quite a bit that's incorrect here.

For starters, Ken Thompson is happily retired. That said, I'm
sure he still enjoys playing with computers, which is what the
article in the Register was talking about. But as a retiree,
he's under no obligation to take any sort of C test, at Google
or elsehwere.

>People who created the language are not necessarily the best programmers
>in town. I bet Stroustrup will confirm this.

Second of all, Ken did not design C; that was mostly Dennis
Ritchie. Ken, of course, was in the room where it happened and
did have a hand in it, but I suspect he would demure and point
to Dennis if someone suggested that he was primary on that.

He did the predecessor language, B, which ran on PDP-7 Unix (and
the PDP-11) and which in turn descended from BCPL.

Ken was one of the original developers of Go, which itself is
the 5th in a series of languages largely initiated by Rob Pike
that descended from C and featured first-class CSP support as a
concurrency primitive (Squeak, Newsqueak, Alef, Limbo and now
Go; Phil Winterbottom drove Alef, but the rest were mostly Rob
with input and help from others).

- Dan C.

cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) writes:
>In article <tvde84$ag4p$1@dont-email.me>,
>Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>On 21/03/2023 20:12, John McCue wrote:
>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> “UNIX co-creator Ken Thompson is a… what user now?”
>>>> https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/17/ken_thompson_is_a_maccie/
>>>>
>>>> “Although Thompson is now 80 years old, he most recently worked at
>>>> Google, where he co-developed Go… although his hiring caused problems:
>>>> he refused to take the company's mandatory C proficiency test, on the
>>>> feeble pretext that he designed the C language.”
>>> I thought you were joking, so I found this:
>>>
>>> https://www.theregister.com/2010/04/21/ken_thompson_take_our_test/
>>>
>>> Seems he did refuse. But that article said he has not
>>> "gotten around" to take it. But I think he probably
>>> thinking the test is silly for him to take and was being
>>> nice. :)
>>>
>>> Still working ay 80, wow.
>>
>>He designed the language in the 60s and 70s. In 2023 the C language is
>>quite different so he should be required to take a test to test his
>>knowledge of modern thinking.
>
>Oh my. There's quite a bit that's incorrect here.
>
>For starters, Ken Thompson is happily retired. That said, I'm
>sure he still enjoys playing with computers, which is what the
>article in the Register was talking about. But as a retiree,
>he's under no obligation to take any sort of C test, at Google
>or elsehwere.
>
>>People who created the language are not necessarily the best programmers
>>in town. I bet Stroustrup will confirm this.
>
>Second of all, Ken did not design C; that was mostly Dennis
>Ritchie. Ken, of course, was in the room where it happened and
>did have a hand in it, but I suspect he would demure and point
>to Dennis if someone suggested that he was primary on that.
>
>He did the predecessor language, B, which ran on PDP-7 Unix (and
>the PDP-11) and which in turn descended from BCPL.
>
>Ken was one of the original developers of Go, which itself is
>the 5th in a series of languages largely initiated by Rob Pike
>that descended from C and featured first-class CSP support as a
>concurrency primitive (Squeak, Newsqueak, Alef, Limbo and now
>Go; Phil Winterbottom drove Alef, but the rest were mostly Rob
>with input and help from others).

Rob also brought us SAM, if I recall correctly. Orignally on a Blit.

In article <XktSL.205755$jiuc.124375@fx44.iad>,
Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) writes:
>>[snip]
>>Ken was one of the original developers of Go, which itself is
>>the 5th in a series of languages largely initiated by Rob Pike
>>that descended from C and featured first-class CSP support as a
>>concurrency primitive (Squeak, Newsqueak, Alef, Limbo and now
>>Go; Phil Winterbottom drove Alef, but the rest were mostly Rob
>>with input and help from others).
>
>Rob also brought us SAM, if I recall correctly. Orignally on a Blit.

Yes, that's correct, though it's usually styled "sam"; the
terminal part did originate on the Blit with Unix on a VAX as
the host (https://9p.io/sys/doc/sam/sam.pdf). It is a
descendent of `ed`, which came from `qed` before it.

Rob however, and some others, transitioned to using `acme`,
which in turn was inspired by Wirth's Oberon system.

- Dan C.

On 3/21/2023 4:19 PM, Manu Raju wrote:
> On 21/03/2023 20:12, John McCue wrote:
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> “UNIX co-creator Ken Thompson is a… what user now?”
>>> https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/17/ken_thompson_is_a_maccie/
>>>
>>> “Although Thompson is now 80 years old, he most recently worked at
>>> Google, where he co-developed Go… although his hiring caused problems:
>>> he refused to take the company's mandatory C proficiency test, on the
>>> feeble pretext that he designed the C language.”
>> I thought you were joking, so I found this:
>>
>> https://www.theregister.com/2010/04/21/ken_thompson_take_our_test/
>>
>> Seems he did refuse. But that article said he has not
>> "gotten around" to take it. But I think he probably
>> thinking the test is silly for him to take and was being
>> nice. :)
>>
>> Still working ay 80, wow.
>>
> He designed the language in the 60s and 70s. In 2023 the C language is
> quite different so he should be required to take a test to test his
> knowledge of modern thinking.
>
> People who created the language are not necessarily the best programmers
> in town. I bet Stroustrup will confirm this.
>

Touche. ;^)

cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) writes:

[history of C]

> Second of all, Ken did not design C; that was mostly Dennis
> Ritchie. Ken, of course, was in the room where it happened and
> did have a hand in it, but I suspect he would demure and point
> to Dennis if someone suggested that he was primary on that.

I expect you mean demur, not demure.

In article <86y1n66df0.fsf@linuxsc.com>,
Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> wrote:
>cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) writes:
>[history of C]
>
>> Second of all, Ken did not design C; that was mostly Dennis
>> Ritchie. Ken, of course, was in the room where it happened and
>> did have a hand in it, but I suspect he would demure and point
>> to Dennis if someone suggested that he was primary on that.
>
>I expect you mean demur, not demure.

Indeed I did; thank you, Tim.

- Dan C.