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devel / comp.theory / Re: A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally

SubjectAuthor
* A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normallyolcott
+* A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normallyimmibis
|`* A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normallyolcott
| +* A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normallyimmibis
| |`* A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normallyolcott
| | +- A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normallyRichard Damon
| | `* A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normallyimmibis
| |  `* A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normallyolcott
| |   `- A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normallyRichard Damon
| `- A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normallyRichard Damon
`- A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normallyRichard Damon

1
A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally

<unidr2$1shdb$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=50401&group=comp.theory#50401

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From: polco...@gmail.com (olcott)
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2024 21:16:49 -0600
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 by: olcott - Tue, 9 Jan 2024 03:16 UTC

04 int D(ptr x)
05 {
06 int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
07 if (Halt_Status)
08 HERE: goto HERE;
09 return Halt_Status;
10 }
11
12 void main()
13 {
14 H(D,D);
15 }

What is step by step line-by-line correct sequence of steps
when the simulation of D by H reaches line 06?

Everyone says that the simulation of D by H is incorrect yet
no one can provide a correct sequence of steps that differs
from the one that H performs.

*A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally*
is proven beyond all possible doubt yet people disagree anyway.

--
Copyright 2023 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally

<unie0l$1saib$2@dont-email.me>

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From: new...@immibis.com (immibis)
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2024 04:19:49 +0100
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In-Reply-To: <unidr2$1shdb$1@dont-email.me>
 by: immibis - Tue, 9 Jan 2024 03:19 UTC

On 1/9/24 04:16, olcott wrote:
> 04 int D(ptr x)
> 05 {
> 06   int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
> 07   if (Halt_Status)
> 08     HERE: goto HERE;
> 09   return Halt_Status;
> 10 }
> 11
> 12 void main()
> 13 {
> 14   H(D,D);
> 15 }
>
> What is step by step line-by-line correct sequence of steps
> when the simulation of D by H reaches line 06?
>
> Everyone says that the simulation of D by H is incorrect yet
> no one can provide a correct sequence of steps that differs
> from the one that H performs.
>
> *A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally*
> is proven beyond all possible doubt yet people disagree anyway.
>

So if it terminates, it's incorrect.

Re: A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally

<unie5d$1shdb$4@dont-email.me>

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From: polco...@gmail.com (olcott)
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2024 21:22:21 -0600
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In-Reply-To: <unie0l$1saib$2@dont-email.me>
 by: olcott - Tue, 9 Jan 2024 03:22 UTC

On 1/8/2024 9:19 PM, immibis wrote:
> On 1/9/24 04:16, olcott wrote:
>> 04 int D(ptr x)
>> 05 {
>> 06   int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
>> 07   if (Halt_Status)
>> 08     HERE: goto HERE;
>> 09   return Halt_Status;
>> 10 }
>> 11
>> 12 void main()
>> 13 {
>> 14   H(D,D);
>> 15 }
>>
>> What is step by step line-by-line correct sequence of steps
>> when the simulation of D by H reaches line 06?
>>
>> Everyone says that the simulation of D by H is incorrect yet
>> no one can provide a correct sequence of steps that differs
>> from the one that H performs.
>>
>> *A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally*
>> is proven beyond all possible doubt yet people disagree anyway.
>>
>
> So if it terminates, it's incorrect.

A program/C function only halts if it terminates normally
by reaching its last instruction. Termination for any other
reason does not count as halting.

--
Copyright 2023 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally

<unieo2$1sk3n$1@dont-email.me>

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From: new...@immibis.com (immibis)
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2024 04:32:18 +0100
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 by: immibis - Tue, 9 Jan 2024 03:32 UTC

On 1/9/24 04:22, olcott wrote:
> On 1/8/2024 9:19 PM, immibis wrote:
>> On 1/9/24 04:16, olcott wrote:
>>> 04 int D(ptr x)
>>> 05 {
>>> 06   int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
>>> 07   if (Halt_Status)
>>> 08     HERE: goto HERE;
>>> 09   return Halt_Status;
>>> 10 }
>>> 11
>>> 12 void main()
>>> 13 {
>>> 14   H(D,D);
>>> 15 }
>>>
>>> What is step by step line-by-line correct sequence of steps
>>> when the simulation of D by H reaches line 06?
>>>
>>> Everyone says that the simulation of D by H is incorrect yet
>>> no one can provide a correct sequence of steps that differs
>>> from the one that H performs.
>>>
>>> *A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally*
>>> is proven beyond all possible doubt yet people disagree anyway.
>>>
>>
>> So if it terminates, it's incorrect.
>
> A program/C function only halts if it terminates normally
> by reaching its last instruction. Termination for any other
> reason does not count as halting.
>

int H(ptr x, ptr y) {
begin_simulation(x, y);
abort_simulation();
return 0; // simulation cannot terminate normally
}

Re: A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally

<unif16$1shdb$7@dont-email.me>

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From: polco...@gmail.com (olcott)
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2024 21:37:10 -0600
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 by: olcott - Tue, 9 Jan 2024 03:37 UTC

On 1/8/2024 9:32 PM, immibis wrote:
> On 1/9/24 04:22, olcott wrote:
>> On 1/8/2024 9:19 PM, immibis wrote:
>>> On 1/9/24 04:16, olcott wrote:
>>>> 04 int D(ptr x)
>>>> 05 {
>>>> 06   int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
>>>> 07   if (Halt_Status)
>>>> 08     HERE: goto HERE;
>>>> 09   return Halt_Status;
>>>> 10 }
>>>> 11
>>>> 12 void main()
>>>> 13 {
>>>> 14   H(D,D);
>>>> 15 }
>>>>
>>>> What is step by step line-by-line correct sequence of steps
>>>> when the simulation of D by H reaches line 06?
>>>>
>>>> Everyone says that the simulation of D by H is incorrect yet
>>>> no one can provide a correct sequence of steps that differs
>>>> from the one that H performs.
>>>>
>>>> *A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally*
>>>> is proven beyond all possible doubt yet people disagree anyway.
>>>>
>>>
>>> So if it terminates, it's incorrect.
>>
>> A program/C function only halts if it terminates normally
>> by reaching its last instruction. Termination for any other
>> reason does not count as halting.
>>
>
> int H(ptr x, ptr y) {
>     begin_simulation(x, y);
>     abort_simulation();
>     return 0; // simulation cannot terminate normally
> }

This H on input D cannot possibly reach past its own first line.

My H is based on a superb x86 emulator that allows any C function
to execute another C function in debug-step mode, while comparing
the prior sequence of steps to known non-halting behavior patterns.

--
Copyright 2023 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally

<unifgd$2l3ud$5@i2pn2.org>

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https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=50416&group=comp.theory#50416

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From: rich...@damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2024 22:45:17 -0500
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID: <unifgd$2l3ud$5@i2pn2.org>
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 by: Richard Damon - Tue, 9 Jan 2024 03:45 UTC

On 1/8/24 10:22 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 1/8/2024 9:19 PM, immibis wrote:
>> On 1/9/24 04:16, olcott wrote:
>>> 04 int D(ptr x)
>>> 05 {
>>> 06   int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
>>> 07   if (Halt_Status)
>>> 08     HERE: goto HERE;
>>> 09   return Halt_Status;
>>> 10 }
>>> 11
>>> 12 void main()
>>> 13 {
>>> 14   H(D,D);
>>> 15 }
>>>
>>> What is step by step line-by-line correct sequence of steps
>>> when the simulation of D by H reaches line 06?
>>>
>>> Everyone says that the simulation of D by H is incorrect yet
>>> no one can provide a correct sequence of steps that differs
>>> from the one that H performs.
>>>
>>> *A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally*
>>> is proven beyond all possible doubt yet people disagree anyway.
>>>
>>
>> So if it terminates, it's incorrect.
>
> A program/C function only halts if it terminates normally
> by reaching its last instruction. Termination for any other
> reason does not count as halting.
>

Right, and the PROGRAM (not the simulation) does that.

An aborted simulation does not prove non-halting.

Re: A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally

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From: rich...@damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2024 22:45:53 -0500
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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 by: Richard Damon - Tue, 9 Jan 2024 03:45 UTC

On 1/8/24 10:37 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 1/8/2024 9:32 PM, immibis wrote:
>> On 1/9/24 04:22, olcott wrote:
>>> On 1/8/2024 9:19 PM, immibis wrote:
>>>> On 1/9/24 04:16, olcott wrote:
>>>>> 04 int D(ptr x)
>>>>> 05 {
>>>>> 06   int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
>>>>> 07   if (Halt_Status)
>>>>> 08     HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>> 09   return Halt_Status;
>>>>> 10 }
>>>>> 11
>>>>> 12 void main()
>>>>> 13 {
>>>>> 14   H(D,D);
>>>>> 15 }
>>>>>
>>>>> What is step by step line-by-line correct sequence of steps
>>>>> when the simulation of D by H reaches line 06?
>>>>>
>>>>> Everyone says that the simulation of D by H is incorrect yet
>>>>> no one can provide a correct sequence of steps that differs
>>>>> from the one that H performs.
>>>>>
>>>>> *A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally*
>>>>> is proven beyond all possible doubt yet people disagree anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So if it terminates, it's incorrect.
>>>
>>> A program/C function only halts if it terminates normally
>>> by reaching its last instruction. Termination for any other
>>> reason does not count as halting.
>>>
>>
>> int H(ptr x, ptr y) {
>>      begin_simulation(x, y);
>>      abort_simulation();
>>      return 0; // simulation cannot terminate normally
>> }
>
> This H on input D cannot possibly reach past its own first line.
>
> My H is based on a superb x86 emulator that allows any C function
> to execute another C function in debug-step mode, while comparing
> the prior sequence of steps to known non-halting behavior patterns.
>

ANd that list includes false positives, so is just wrong.

Re: A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally

<unifkt$2l3ud$8@i2pn2.org>

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From: rich...@damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2024 22:47:41 -0500
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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 by: Richard Damon - Tue, 9 Jan 2024 03:47 UTC

On 1/8/24 10:16 PM, olcott wrote:
> 04 int D(ptr x)
> 05 {
> 06   int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
> 07   if (Halt_Status)
> 08     HERE: goto HERE;
> 09   return Halt_Status;
> 10 }
> 11
> 12 void main()
> 13 {
> 14   H(D,D);
> 15 }
>
> What is step by step line-by-line correct sequence of steps
> when the simulation of D by H reaches line 06?
>
> Everyone says that the simulation of D by H is incorrect yet
> no one can provide a correct sequence of steps that differs
> from the one that H performs.
>
> *A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally*
> is proven beyond all possible doubt yet people disagree anyway.
>

There is no H that does it.

It is the Barber that shaves only those who do not shave themselves, and
thus is, in your own words, an invalid question, show that you are just
too stupid.

Re: A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally

<unifnq$1sn8r$1@dont-email.me>

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From: new...@immibis.com (immibis)
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2024 04:49:14 +0100
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In-Reply-To: <unif16$1shdb$7@dont-email.me>
 by: immibis - Tue, 9 Jan 2024 03:49 UTC

On 1/9/24 04:37, olcott wrote:
> On 1/8/2024 9:32 PM, immibis wrote:
>> On 1/9/24 04:22, olcott wrote:
>>> On 1/8/2024 9:19 PM, immibis wrote:
>>>> On 1/9/24 04:16, olcott wrote:
>>>>> 04 int D(ptr x)
>>>>> 05 {
>>>>> 06   int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
>>>>> 07   if (Halt_Status)
>>>>> 08     HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>> 09   return Halt_Status;
>>>>> 10 }
>>>>> 11
>>>>> 12 void main()
>>>>> 13 {
>>>>> 14   H(D,D);
>>>>> 15 }
>>>>>
>>>>> What is step by step line-by-line correct sequence of steps
>>>>> when the simulation of D by H reaches line 06?
>>>>>
>>>>> Everyone says that the simulation of D by H is incorrect yet
>>>>> no one can provide a correct sequence of steps that differs
>>>>> from the one that H performs.
>>>>>
>>>>> *A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally*
>>>>> is proven beyond all possible doubt yet people disagree anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So if it terminates, it's incorrect.
>>>
>>> A program/C function only halts if it terminates normally
>>> by reaching its last instruction. Termination for any other
>>> reason does not count as halting.
>>>
>>
>> int H(ptr x, ptr y) {
>>      begin_simulation(x, y);
>>      abort_simulation();
>>      return 0; // simulation cannot terminate normally
>> }
>
> This H on input D cannot possibly reach past its own first line.
>
> My H is based on a superb x86 emulator that allows any C function
> to execute another C function in debug-step mode, while comparing
> the prior sequence of steps to known non-halting behavior patterns.
>
The prior sequence of steps is an undeclared input to the
double-simulated program which makes its behaviour diverge from the
actual double execution of the program.

Re: A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally

<unig5p$1shdb$10@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=50425&group=comp.theory#50425

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From: polco...@gmail.com (olcott)
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2024 21:56:41 -0600
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In-Reply-To: <unifnq$1sn8r$1@dont-email.me>
 by: olcott - Tue, 9 Jan 2024 03:56 UTC

On 1/8/2024 9:49 PM, immibis wrote:
> On 1/9/24 04:37, olcott wrote:
>> On 1/8/2024 9:32 PM, immibis wrote:
>>> On 1/9/24 04:22, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 1/8/2024 9:19 PM, immibis wrote:
>>>>> On 1/9/24 04:16, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> 04 int D(ptr x)
>>>>>> 05 {
>>>>>> 06   int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
>>>>>> 07   if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>> 08     HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>> 09   return Halt_Status;
>>>>>> 10 }
>>>>>> 11
>>>>>> 12 void main()
>>>>>> 13 {
>>>>>> 14   H(D,D);
>>>>>> 15 }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is step by step line-by-line correct sequence of steps
>>>>>> when the simulation of D by H reaches line 06?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everyone says that the simulation of D by H is incorrect yet
>>>>>> no one can provide a correct sequence of steps that differs
>>>>>> from the one that H performs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally*
>>>>>> is proven beyond all possible doubt yet people disagree anyway.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So if it terminates, it's incorrect.
>>>>
>>>> A program/C function only halts if it terminates normally
>>>> by reaching its last instruction. Termination for any other
>>>> reason does not count as halting.
>>>>
>>>
>>> int H(ptr x, ptr y) {
>>>      begin_simulation(x, y);
>>>      abort_simulation();
>>>      return 0; // simulation cannot terminate normally
>>> }
>>
>> This H on input D cannot possibly reach past its own first line.
>>
>> My H is based on a superb x86 emulator that allows any C function
>> to execute another C function in debug-step mode, while comparing
>> the prior sequence of steps to known non-halting behavior patterns.
>>
> The prior sequence of steps is an undeclared input to the
> double-simulated program which makes its behaviour diverge from the
> actual double execution of the program.

On 1/8/2024 9:20 PM, immibis wrote:
> On 1/9/24 04:20, olcott wrote:
>> It is stipulated that H simulates D you ignored this
>> aspect of the problem definition.
>>
>
> Then a correct simulation can't possibly terminate.

04 int D(ptr x)
05 {
06 int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
07 if (Halt_Status)
08 HERE: goto HERE;
09 return Halt_Status;
10 }

*D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly terminate normally*

--
Copyright 2023 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally

<unihaj$2l3ud$13@i2pn2.org>

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https://www.novabbs.com/devel/article-flat.php?id=50434&group=comp.theory#50434

  copy link   Newsgroups: comp.theory sci.logic
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From: rich...@damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2024 23:16:19 -0500
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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 by: Richard Damon - Tue, 9 Jan 2024 04:16 UTC

On 1/8/24 10:56 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 1/8/2024 9:49 PM, immibis wrote:
>> On 1/9/24 04:37, olcott wrote:
>>> On 1/8/2024 9:32 PM, immibis wrote:
>>>> On 1/9/24 04:22, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 1/8/2024 9:19 PM, immibis wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/9/24 04:16, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> 04 int D(ptr x)
>>>>>>> 05 {
>>>>>>> 06   int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
>>>>>>> 07   if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>>> 08     HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>> 09   return Halt_Status;
>>>>>>> 10 }
>>>>>>> 11
>>>>>>> 12 void main()
>>>>>>> 13 {
>>>>>>> 14   H(D,D);
>>>>>>> 15 }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is step by step line-by-line correct sequence of steps
>>>>>>> when the simulation of D by H reaches line 06?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Everyone says that the simulation of D by H is incorrect yet
>>>>>>> no one can provide a correct sequence of steps that differs
>>>>>>> from the one that H performs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *A correct simulation of D by H cannot possibly terminate normally*
>>>>>>> is proven beyond all possible doubt yet people disagree anyway.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So if it terminates, it's incorrect.
>>>>>
>>>>> A program/C function only halts if it terminates normally
>>>>> by reaching its last instruction. Termination for any other
>>>>> reason does not count as halting.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> int H(ptr x, ptr y) {
>>>>      begin_simulation(x, y);
>>>>      abort_simulation();
>>>>      return 0; // simulation cannot terminate normally
>>>> }
>>>
>>> This H on input D cannot possibly reach past its own first line.
>>>
>>> My H is based on a superb x86 emulator that allows any C function
>>> to execute another C function in debug-step mode, while comparing
>>> the prior sequence of steps to known non-halting behavior patterns.
>>>
>> The prior sequence of steps is an undeclared input to the
>> double-simulated program which makes its behaviour diverge from the
>> actual double execution of the program.
>
> On 1/8/2024 9:20 PM, immibis wrote:
> > On 1/9/24 04:20, olcott wrote:
> >> It is stipulated that H simulates D you ignored this
> >> aspect of the problem definition.
> >>
> >
> > Then a correct simulation can't possibly terminate.
>
> 04 int D(ptr x)
> 05 {
> 06   int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
> 07   if (Halt_Status)
> 08     HERE: goto HERE;
> 09   return Halt_Status;
> 10 }
>
> *D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly terminate normally*
>

And an H that correctly simulates D can not return an answer.

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