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devel / comp.lang.ada / Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?

SubjectAuthor
* Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Marius Amado-Alves
+* Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Jeffrey R. Carter
|+* Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Marius Amado-Alves
||`- Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Jeffrey R. Carter
|`- Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Marius Amado-Alves
+* Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Max Reznik
|`* Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Max Reznik
| +* Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Luke A. Guest
| |`* Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Maxim Reznik
| | `* Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Shark8
| |  `- Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Luke A. Guest
| +- Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Shark8
| `- Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Marius Amado-Alves
+* Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Luke A. Guest
|`* Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Marius Amado-Alves
| `* Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Luke A. Guest
|  `* Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Marius Amado-Alves
|   `- Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Luke A. Guest
`* Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Marius Amado-Alves
 +* Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Maxim Reznik
 |+* ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in AdaJ-P. Rosen
 ||+* Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Stephen Leake
 |||`- Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend inJ-P. Rosen
 ||`* Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend inRod Kay
 || `* Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend inJ-P. Rosen
 ||  `* Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend inShark8
 ||   `* Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend inMarius Amado-Alves
 ||    `* Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend inJ-P. Rosen
 ||     +* Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Maxim Reznik
 ||     |`* Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend inMarius Amado-Alves
 ||     | `* Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend inMarius Amado-Alves
 ||     |  `* Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend inMaxim Reznik
 ||     |   `* Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend inMarius Amado-Alves
 ||     |    `- Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend inVadim Godunko
 ||     `- Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend inMarius Amado-Alves
 |`- Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Shark8
 `- Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?Paul Rubin

Pages:12
Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?

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From: ros...@adalog.fr (J-P. Rosen)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in
Ada 2012?
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 16:04:19 +0200
Organization: Adalog
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 by: J-P. Rosen - Sat, 12 Jun 2021 14:04 UTC

Le 12/06/2021 à 12:47, Rod Kay a écrit :
> On 9/6/21 3:02 pm, J-P. Rosen wrote:
>>
>> Please drop me a note if you have developped an ASIS tool, or are
>> using an ASIS-based tool. With enough protests, we may convince
>> AdaCore to make ASIS4GNAT available to the community.
>>
>
> I switched from ASIS to libadalang for an Ada IDE project also, since I
> thought ASIS was abandoned.
If you want to analyze code while it is being typed, as is common in an
IDE, Libadalang is certainly the way to go.

If you want to make sophisticated analysis tools, it's another story.
Hopefully, my paper at AE will soon be available...

--
J-P. Rosen
Adalog
2 rue du Docteur Lombard, 92441 Issy-les-Moulineaux CEDEX
Tel: +33 1 45 29 21 52
https://www.adalog.fr

Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?

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Subject: Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in
Ada 2012?
From: onewinge...@gmail.com (Shark8)
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 by: Shark8 - Mon, 14 Jun 2021 12:37 UTC

On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 8:04:20 AM UTC-6, J-P. Rosen wrote:
>
> If you want to make sophisticated analysis tools, it's another story.
> Hopefully, my paper at AE will soon be available...

Oh, I am looking forward to reading it.
BTW, I really liked your "Memory Management in Ada 2012" video; I've used it as a reference several times to explain to Rust-people that Ada is safer than expected because pointers aren't required for a lot of things, and so you don't have to worry about null-exclusion.

Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?

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Subject: Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in
Ada 2012?
From: amado.al...@gmail.com (Marius Amado-Alves)
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 by: Marius Amado-Alves - Tue, 15 Jun 2021 21:40 UTC

Is JGNAT reliable, updated, available?
Thanks.

Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?

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From: ros...@adalog.fr (J-P. Rosen)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in
Ada 2012?
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 10:41:31 +0200
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 by: J-P. Rosen - Wed, 16 Jun 2021 08:41 UTC

Le 15/06/2021 à 23:40, Marius Amado-Alves a écrit :
> Is JGNAT
>reliable,
I didn' try it enough to answer this

> updated,
No. The latest version is 2013. Another one of the useful stuff
abandonned by AdaCore.

> available?
Yes, from Adacore's community download page.

--
J-P. Rosen
Adalog
2 rue du Docteur Lombard, 92441 Issy-les-Moulineaux CEDEX
Tel: +33 1 45 29 21 52
https://www.adalog.fr

Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?

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Subject: Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?
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 by: Maxim Reznik - Thu, 24 Jun 2021 12:36 UTC

If somebody wants to try WebAssembly with Ada, I've updated the toolchain RPM and wrote short how to use docker to run the toolchain in case don't have Fedora 33:

https://github.com/godunko/adawebpack/issues/10#issuecomment-867544835

Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?

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Subject: Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in
Ada 2012?
From: amado.al...@gmail.com (Marius Amado-Alves)
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 by: Marius Amado-Alves - Thu, 24 Jun 2021 21:28 UTC

On Thursday, 24 June 2021 at 13:36:26 UTC+1, Maxim Reznik wrote:
> If somebody wants to try WebAssembly with Ada, I've updated the toolchain RPM and wrote short how to use docker to run the toolchain in case don't have Fedora 33:
>
> https://github.com/godunko/adawebpack/issues/10#issuecomment-867544835

Thanks.
Looks like you've done a fantastic job.

Personally I will not try this soon because:
- I hear Wasm does not support exceptions
- it looks like it has too many dependencies; I dont have time to manage that

Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?

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Subject: Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in
Ada 2012?
From: amado.al...@gmail.com (Marius Amado-Alves)
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 by: Marius Amado-Alves - Fri, 25 Jun 2021 07:44 UTC

"""
- nested subprograms are not supported
- exceptions support is limited to local exceptions propagation and last chance handler
- protected objects and tasks are not supported
"""
(https://github.com/godunko/adawebpack)

Are these limitations of Wasm, LLVM, or of any of the translators (Ada->LLVM, LLVM->Wasm)? Thanks.

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Subject: Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in
Ada 2012?
From: amado.al...@gmail.com (Marius Amado-Alves)
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 by: Marius Amado-Alves - Fri, 25 Jun 2021 07:50 UTC

On Wednesday, 16 June 2021 at 09:41:33 UTC+1, J-P. Rosen wrote:
> Le 15/06/2021 à 23:40, Marius Amado-Alves a écrit :
> > Is JGNAT
> >reliable,
> I didn' try it enough to answer this
>
> > updated,
> No. The latest version is 2013. Another one of the useful stuff
> abandonned by AdaCore.
>
> > available?
> Yes, from Adacore's community download page.
> --
> J-P. Rosen

Thanks, J-P.
I might still check JGNAT out, if it is easy to install (like GNAT which is super easy).
Curious to see how much of Ada 2012 it supports, given that it is of 2013.

Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?

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Subject: Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in
Ada 2012?
From: rezni...@gmail.com (Maxim Reznik)
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 by: Maxim Reznik - Fri, 25 Jun 2021 09:08 UTC

AFAIK it's impossible to change stack pointer in WebAssembly now. That's why you can unwind stack on exception nor create another stack for a new task.. However this is not critical for the web development from my POV.

пятница, 25 июня 2021 г. в 10:44:34 UTC+3, amado...@gmail.com:
> """
> - nested subprograms are not supported
> - exceptions support is limited to local exceptions propagation and last chance handler
> - protected objects and tasks are not supported
> """
> (https://github.com/godunko/adawebpack)
>
> Are these limitations of Wasm, LLVM, or of any of the translators (Ada->LLVM, LLVM->Wasm)? Thanks.

Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?

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Subject: Re: Any chance of programming a web frontend in Ada 2012?
From: amado.al...@gmail.com (Marius Amado-Alves)
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 by: Marius Amado-Alves - Sat, 26 Jun 2021 11:59 UTC

On Tuesday, 8 June 2021 at 16:22:55 UTC+1, Max Reznik wrote:
> Speaking about "a single language" for frontend and backend. There was an idea to port Annex E (DSA) to AdaWebPack and use it as a communication channel between a web server written in Ada and WebAssembly client part.

An implementation of the DSA with browsers as nodes would be ideal IMO.

But not if the implementation requires you to spend hours, days installing, configuring things outside, around Ada. As AdaWebPack seems to.

Is there such a beast? A DSA implementation (even without web nodes) that deploys at the push of a button? Polyorb? (Which seems to have replaced gnatdist.)

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Subject: Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in
Ada 2012?
From: amado.al...@gmail.com (Marius Amado-Alves)
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 by: Marius Amado-Alves - Sat, 26 Jun 2021 12:05 UTC

On Friday, 25 June 2021 at 10:08:45 UTC+1, Maxim Reznik wrote:
> AFAIK it's impossible to change stack pointer in WebAssembly now. That's why you can unwind stack on exception nor create another stack for a new task. However this is not critical for the web development from my POV.

And I agree, thanks. I'll try to allocate a couple hours (days?) to test drive AdaWebPack, as it seems the most updated solution.

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Subject: Re: ASIS for Gnat (was: Any chance of programming a web frontend in
Ada 2012?
From: vgodu...@gmail.com (Vadim Godunko)
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 by: Vadim Godunko - Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:51 UTC

I think classic DSA doesn't fit modern web programming well for may aspects, for instance, user experience (user expect to have some indication of on going request processing), application architecture (Web application is usually event driven and asynchronous), etc.

GNATLLVM/WASM provides good enough basement to develop applications. I've some experience and should say that UI development with AdaWebPack is little more complicated compare to JS. From the over side, in case of some applications it is possible to reuse old (and develop new) code on both client and server sides, and it simplify development of the application in large. One more nice thing is same memory layout in WASM VM and x86 CPU, it allows to transfer binary data without any additional conversion.

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