Scott,

> Not everything you "hear" is accurate.

I hope you are aware that the same thing goes for what I "hear" from you
too.

[snip long list of (mostly) functions]

I don't see anything there contradicting Alfs statement.

And as you did not bother to point anything out that does ... You lose.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

30.06.2023 19:12 R.Wieser kirjutas:

> [quote=Alf P. Steinbach, Sun, 25 Jun 2023 15:06:29 -0700]
> curses takes over the entire (text / terminal) screen, keeping track of what
> character is shown at each location and using minimal output to update it as
> needed.
> [/quote]
>
> Which is /absolutily not/ what I'm currently looking for. Thats like using
> a cannon to kill a mosquito.

Yes, that's the way it goes nowadays. But ncurses is not really a
cannon, maybe a water pistol.

$ cat `find ncurses/ -name '*.c' -o -name '*.cpp' -o -name '*.h'` | wc -l
129139

For comparison, this is a cannon:

$ cat `find aws-sdk-cpp/ -name '*.c' -o -name '*.cpp' -o -name '*.h'` |
wc -l
15210261

That's pretty impressive for a library which just copies files from one
place to other (at least that's what we are using it for).

"R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> writes:

>> As far as I can tell there /is/ a solution, but this, being a C++
>> group, is not the best one for the question so maybe no one has
>> given the details.
>
> I assumed that a good percentage of users here would be using Linux, and the
> question would make sense to them. I must have assumed wrong.

Someone using Linux will not necessarily know about the details of
programming with curses. It's just odd to think that an interest in C++
will correlate, significantly, with detailed knowledge about curses.

>> ncurses provides a function to do this parsing with and without
>> a timeout. If that is not, in fact, what you want then you should
>> explain why ncurses's "keypad" setting does not do what you want.
>
> I would need to install it (its not part of the OS installation) and I've
> heard that its a bit "demanding" :

You don't have to install it to read about it!

> [quote=Alf P. Steinbach, Sun, 25 Jun 2023 15:06:29 -0700]
> curses takes over the entire (text / terminal) screen, keeping track of what
> character is shown at each location and using minimal output to update it as
> needed.
> [/quote]
>
> Which is /absolutily not/ what I'm currently looking for. Thats like using
> a cannon to kill a mosquito.

It may not do /only/ what you want, but wanting to parse input into keys
and /not/ wanting the other stuff if rare enough that it's a reasonable
starting point.

--
Ben.

"R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> writes:
>> As far as I can tell there /is/ a solution, but this, being a C++
>> group, is not the best one for the question so maybe no one has
>> given the details.
>
> I assumed that a good percentage of users here would be using Linux, and the
> question would make sense to them. I must have assumed wrong.

And yet you're still posting here and *not* posting in an appropriate
place. Why?

>> ncurses provides a function to do this parsing with and without
>> a timeout. If that is not, in fact, what you want then you should
>> explain why ncurses's "keypad" setting does not do what you want.
>
> I would need to install it (its not part of the OS installation) and I've
> heard that its a bit "demanding" :
>
> [quote=Alf P. Steinbach, Sun, 25 Jun 2023 15:06:29 -0700]
> curses takes over the entire (text / terminal) screen, keeping track of what
> character is shown at each location and using minimal output to update it as
> needed.
> [/quote]

You see, this is why you should leave attribution lines alone. Alf
Steinbach didn't write that. I did. (He quoted it in a followup.)

> Which is /absolutily not/ what I'm currently looking for. Thats like using
> a cannon to kill a mosquito.

I have no problem with using a cannon to kill a mosquito. If ncurses
had a good way to detect arrow key input without taking over the whole
screen, I'd recommend that.

Thomas Dickey, in response to a question I posted on Stack Overflow a
few years ago, suggested something that might be the basis of a
solution:

https://stackoverflow.com/q/48715793/827263
https://stackoverflow.com/a/48716136/827263

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Will write code for food.
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

On 6/30/23 12:12, R.Wieser wrote:
> Ben,
>
>> As far as I can tell there /is/ a solution, but this, being a C++
>> group, is not the best one for the question so maybe no one has
>> given the details.
>
> I assumed that a good percentage of users here would be using Linux, and the
> question would make sense to them. I must have assumed wrong.

Why would you go to a forum where "a good percentage of users would be
using Linux", rather than a forum devoted to Linux, where that
percentage could reasonably be assumed to be 100? It's significantly
less than 100% here - several of the people who post here dismiss any
Linux-specific comment in the belief that Linux is unimportant compared
to Windows.

In article <u7nfp3$2kvh5$1@dont-email.me>,
James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>On 6/30/23 12:12, R.Wieser wrote:
>> Ben,
>>
>>> As far as I can tell there /is/ a solution, but this, being a C++
>>> group, is not the best one for the question so maybe no one has
>>> given the details.
>>
>> I assumed that a good percentage of users here would be using Linux,
>> and the question would make sense to them. I must have assumed wrong.
>
>Why would you go to a forum where "a good percentage of users would be
>using Linux", rather than a forum devoted to Linux, where that
>percentage could reasonably be assumed to be 100? It's significantly
>less than 100% here - several of the people who post here dismiss any
>Linux-specific comment in the belief that Linux is unimportant compared
>to Windows.

Those people are mostly idiots and can (and should) be ignored. So,
really, no worries on that front.

--
A Catholic woman tells her husband to buy Viagra.

A Jewish woman tells her husband to buy Pfizer.

Paavo,

> $ cat `find aws-sdk-cpp/ -name '*.c' -o -name '*.cpp' -o -name '*.h'` |
> wc -l
> 15210261
>
> That's pretty impressive for a library which just copies files from one
> place to other (at least that's what we are using it for).

With that size I can only assume that it supports copying those files by
"avian carrier" (rfc 1149) for the transport. :-)

> $ cat `find ncurses/ -name '*.c' -o -name '*.cpp' -o -name '*.h'` | wc -l
> 129139

but its not about the size, but about the "side" effects. I don't want to
have to relinquish control of the screen just to be able to get access to
preparsed keystrokes. Thats not an acceptable solution.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

James,

> Why would you go to a forum where "a good percentage of users would
> be using Linux", rather than a forum devoted to Linux, where that
> percentage could reasonably be assumed to be 100?

If I would know everything (including the knowledge of a more apropriate
newsgroup ) than I would not have needed to post a question to begin with.
Ever thought about that ?

> It's significantly less than 100% here

You don't say.

> several of the people who post here dismiss any Linux-specific comment in
> the belief that Linux is unimportant compared to Windows.

And those are not the ones who would have the Linux knowledge to answer my
current question, so thats fine by me.

But thank you for the warning.

And for the record, if I would have had that other newsgroup in my shortlist
I would have posted there.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Keith,

>> I assumed that a good percentage of users here would be using Linux,
>> and the question would make sense to them. I must have assumed wrong.
>
> And yet you're still posting here and *not* posting in an appropriate
> place. Why?

Are you telling me I should just have stopped responding here and taken off
to that other newsgroup ? Where I live thats considered rude going on
offensive.

> You see, this is why you should leave attribution lines alone. Alf
> Steinbach didn't write that. I did. (He quoted it in a followup.)

Funny, I took his name from your post, where the attribution lines where
(ofcourse) present ...

But yes, I made a mistake. As you say, it was you who wrote that, in a
response to Alf. My apologies.

.... But do I at least get points for using the correct date ? :-)

> I have no problem with using a cannon to kill a mosquito. If
> ncurses had a good way to detect arrow key input without taking
> over the whole screen, I'd recommend that.

And in that "no taking over of stuff" case I would most likely have used it.

> Thomas Dickey, in response to a question I posted on Stack Overflow
> a few years ago, suggested something that might be the basis of a
> solution:

Both of those links seem to end up showing the same content.

I skipped the ncurses part, as it, as mentioned by yours truly, wants to
take over the screen. The "How to distinguish between escape and escape
sequence" link shows some code, but as mentioned, I've already got that part
down.

Thanks nonetheless.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

On Friday, 30 June 2023 at 22:00:37 UTC+1, James Kuyper wrote:
> On 6/30/23 12:12, R.Wieser wrote:
> > Ben,
> >
> >> As far as I can tell there /is/ a solution, but this, being a C++
> >> group, is not the best one for the question so maybe no one has
> >> given the details.
> >
> > I assumed that a good percentage of users here would be using Linux, and the
> > question would make sense to them. I must have assumed wrong.
> Why would you go to a forum where "a good percentage of users would be
> using Linux", rather than a forum devoted to Linux, where that
> percentage could reasonably be assumed to be 100? It's significantly
> less than 100% here - several of the people who post here dismiss any
> Linux-specific comment in the belief that Linux is unimportant compared
> to Windows.
>
Actually the usual pattern is that Linux programmers consider themselves to be technically
and even morally superior to those who program for some other proprietary platforms.
And so Linux-specific discussions get a free pass, unlike those on other operating
systems.

On Sat, 1 Jul 2023 03:03:57 -0700 (PDT)
Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Friday, 30 June 2023 at 22:00:37 UTC+1, James Kuyper wrote:
>> On 6/30/23 12:12, R.Wieser wrote:
>> > Ben,
>> >
>> >> As far as I can tell there /is/ a solution, but this, being a C++
>> >> group, is not the best one for the question so maybe no one has
>> >> given the details.
>> >
>> > I assumed that a good percentage of users here would be using Linux, and
>the
>> > question would make sense to them. I must have assumed wrong.
>> Why would you go to a forum where "a good percentage of users would be
>> using Linux", rather than a forum devoted to Linux, where that
>> percentage could reasonably be assumed to be 100? It's significantly
>> less than 100% here - several of the people who post here dismiss any
>> Linux-specific comment in the belief that Linux is unimportant compared
>> to Windows.
>>
>Actually the usual pattern is that Linux programmers consider themselves to be
>technically
>and even morally superior to those who program for some other proprietary
>platforms.

I disagree. We may be snooty about Windows compared to other OS's - not just
linux - but a C++ dev is a C++ dev regardless of platform. Having written C++
on both I am in no wish to hurry back to Windows due to the hoops you often
have to jump through to do basic (for *nix) stuff such as process forking,
multiplexing sockets and the absurd distinction between console and GUI apps.
That said Visual Studio is definately superior as an IDE to anything Linux has
to offer and blows the bug ridden abortion known as Eclipse out of the water.

"R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> writes:
> Keith,
>
>>> I assumed that a good percentage of users here would be using Linux,
>>> and the question would make sense to them. I must have assumed wrong.
>>
>> And yet you're still posting here and *not* posting in an appropriate
>> place. Why?
>
> Are you telling me I should just have stopped responding here and taken off
> to that other newsgroup ? Where I live thats considered rude going on
> offensive.

You could post a single message on this thread saying that you're going
to continue the discussion in comp.unix.programmer. Or you could
cross-post a message to comp.lang.c++ and comp.unix.programmer, with
followups directed to comp.unix.programmer.

You can still do that. It would be far less rude than what you're
doing now.

>> You see, this is why you should leave attribution lines alone. Alf
>> Steinbach didn't write that. I did. (He quoted it in a followup.)
>
> Funny, I took his name from your post, where the attribution lines where
> (ofcourse) present ...
>
> But yes, I made a mistake. As you say, it was you who wrote that, in a
> response to Alf. My apologies.
>
> ... But do I at least get points for using the correct date ? :-)

You get no points for continuing to deliberately flout longstanding
Usenet conventions.

>> I have no problem with using a cannon to kill a mosquito. If
>> ncurses had a good way to detect arrow key input without taking
>> over the whole screen, I'd recommend that.
>
> And in that "no taking over of stuff" case I would most likely have used it.
>
>> Thomas Dickey, in response to a question I posted on Stack Overflow
>> a few years ago, suggested something that might be the basis of a
>> solution:
>
> Both of those links seem to end up showing the same content.

The first link was to my question, the second to Thomas Dickey's
answer. They both appear on the same web page.

> I skipped the ncurses part, as it, as mentioned by yours truly, wants to
> take over the screen. The "How to distinguish between escape and escape
> sequence" link shows some code, but as mentioned, I've already got that part
> down.

You skipped the part where Thomas Dickey demonstrated using ncurses
without taking over the screen.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Will write code for food.
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

On 2023-06-29 6:37 PM, R.Wieser wrote:
>
> And by the way: I have quite a problem with the ^Z (26) being send as the
> start of a command sequence as well on its own when the ESC key is pressed
> (IOW, no escaping of the ESC key). I do not see any way to, in a stream,
> detect if its one or the other. Its just asking for trouble. :-(

Timing.

- Alf

On 7/1/23 04:30, R.Wieser wrote:
> James,
>
>> Why would you go to a forum where "a good percentage of users would
>> be using Linux", rather than a forum devoted to Linux, where that
>> percentage could reasonably be assumed to be 100?
>
> If I would know everything
....
> than I would not have needed to post a question to begin with.

Of course.

[Rearranging slightly]
> (including the knowledge of a more appropriate
> newsgroup )

However, I did expect you to know how to search for an appropriate
newsgroup.

....
> And for the record, if I would have had that other newsgroup in my shortlist
> I would have posted there.

Your message headers indicate that your newsreader is Microsoft Outlook
Express. I use the Outlook app on my smartphone, which has no obvious
way to access usenet newsgroups. I don't know how Outlook works on it's
native platform, Windows, so I'm afraid I can't help you with that.

However, most newsreaders have some way of searching for appropriate
newsgroups on a specified news server. I use Mozilla Thunderbird to
access the Eternal September news server. When I select that server,
right click and select "Subscribe" from the pop-up menu, and type
"Linux" in the search box, it lists several hundred newsgroups, many of
which would be a more appropriate place to post this question than this
newsgroup. I also use Google Groups, which has a similar capability. I
would expect the same would be true of Outlook.

You'll get better answers from people with more Linux-specific knowledge
in those newsgroups than here.

And of course, usenet newsgroups are far from being the only forums for
discussing Linux. See <https://www.linux.org/forums/>, for instance.

Alf,

>> And by the way: I have quite a problem with the ^Z (26) being send as the
>> start of a command sequence as well on its own when the ESC key is
>> pressed
>> (IOW, no escaping of the ESC key). I do not see any way to, in a stream,
>> detect if its one or the other. Its just asking for trouble. :-(
>
> Timing.

Yep, thats what I used.

But now imagine that I'm not using it to parse a raw, but instead a cooked
(line-based) input. Bye-bye timing. :-(

Granted, I did not indicate I would be using my/the parser for that (quite
the opposite actually), but it did already enter my mind.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Keith,

> You could post a single message on this thread saying that
> you're going to continue the discussion in comp.unix.programmer.

Ah yes, about that : Are you aware that Linux != Unix ? I might well be
told to leave that group for the same reason you are trying to eject me from
this one ...

> You can still do that. It would be far less rude than what
> you're doing now.

Which is ? That I ignore your "I'm a Windows C++ programmer and could not
care less about the Linux C++ programmers that are here" attitude ?

Something about the pot calling the kettle black ...

> You get no points for continuing to deliberately flout longstanding
> Usenet conventions.

And you get no points from trying to push such conventions upon others as if
they are Laws.

You also should re-read it. It rather specifically tells you that what
they say in there are /not/ strict rules, but *guidelines* for keeping
usenet conversations running smoothly.

And seeing how you are able to pick out my responses to you without showing
any problems with it I think that my "just the posters name" works quite
well.

And to be frank about it, in this newsgroup (and several others that I
visit) you are one of less than a handfull in many years having a problem
with it. What does that tell you ?

IOW, you're behaving like the equivalent of a "grammar nazi". And I don't
like them either.

> You skipped the part where Thomas Dickey demonstrated using
> ncurses without taking over the screen.

Lol.

Third paragraph, first sentence :

"Here's a *non-working* example of what I'm trying to do."

(bolding by me).

A quick peek at the result could have told you the same :

"
Press UP, DOWN, Escape, LEFT, RIGHT
Incorrect input: (-1, -1, -1, -1, -1)
"

He even mentions the "intimately tied to taking over the entire screen" as a
standing problem in his "update" paragraph.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

James,

> However, I did expect you to know how to search for an appropriate
> newsgroup.
....
> it lists several hundred newsgroups,

Yeah, when I did ask my newsreader I got such a long list too.

> many of which would be a more appropriate place

And you know that one of those others would be more apropriate .... how ?
Just by looking at the name ? I did, and I by it posted here.

IOW, I (and you too) have to make a choice on very limited information. And
when I than do I get people like keith and you telling me I did it wrong
*and wave me off* (1) to find another - which I would need to choose on the
same, limited info I used for this one.

(1) As in : I could not care where you go as long as its not here. Which is
a few notches below being helpfull and causes me to ignore it. Sorry (not
sorry).

And I'll be damned if I would just subscribe to all of them, follow them for
a few weeks to figure out what they are all about, and than pick one (with
possibly still getting a "not here" response).

Besides, keith isn't all that good in picking a "more apropriate" newsgroup
either, and you are not even trying ...

> You'll get better answers from people with more Linux-specific knowledge
> in those newsgroups than here.

:-) The Linux people here will /really/ like you for implicitily calling
them non-knowledgable.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

On 7/2/23 05:27, R.Wieser wrote:
> James,
>
>> However, I did expect you to know how to search for an appropriate
>> newsgroup.
> ...
>> it lists several hundred newsgroups,
>
> Yeah, when I did ask my newsreader I got such a long list too.
>
>> many of which would be a more appropriate place
>
> And you know that one of those others would be more apropriate .... how ?

Primarily because I know that this is outside the scope of this newsgroup.

> Just by looking at the name ? I did, and I by it posted here.

You came here with a question that was primarily about Linux
functionality, because you thought that "C++" in the newsgroup name was
a stronger indication of appropriateness than "Linux"?

> IOW, I (and you too) have to make a choice on very limited information.

No, we don't. One of the best ways to find out which newsgroup is most
appropriate for a given topic is to do a search for messages containing
relevant keywords in Google Groups. Not all such messages will be about
the topic you're actually interested in, but you should be able to scan
the first several pages of search results to identify a newsgroup that's
appropriate.
On the other hand, if "C++" strikes you as a more relevant keyword than
"linux", your judgement of such matters is not to be trusted, so perhaps
asking for advice would be a better idea.

> Besides, keith isn't all that good in picking a "more apropriate" newsgroup
> either, and you are not even trying ...

It's your search, I was just explaining how to conduct it. I've used and
programmed exclusively on Linux, both at work and at home, for nearly
three decades, but I've never had any reason to worry about the issues
you're worrying about, so I'm not sure where to direct you.
More importantly, as a general rule, when I am looking for OS-specific
solutions, I'm more interested in a POSIX generic solution rather than a
Linux-specific one. If such a solution would be acceptable to you, I'd
recommend going to comp.unix.programmer

>> You'll get better answers from people with more Linux-specific knowledge
>> in those newsgroups than here.
>
> :-) The Linux people here will /really/ like you for implicitily calling
> them non-knowledgable.

Huh?
I suggested nothing of the kind. Only that there are far fewer Linux
experts here than you could expect to find in an active Linux oriented
group. The average level of Linux expertise in this group is lower that
of the linux groups. The minimum level of linux expertise in this
newsgroup is 0, but should be non-zero in those newsgreups.

James,

>> And you know that one of those others would be more apropriate .... how ?
>
> Primarily because I know that this is outside the scope of this newsgroup.

Wrong answer. Perhaps this is, outof all the newsgroups, the most
apropriate. But you would not know and you do not care. As long as I
believe your claim and leave.

> You came here with a question that was primarily about Linux
> functionality,
> because you thought that "C++" in the newsgroup name was a stronger
> indication of appropriateness than "Linux"?

I already answered that. At least twice. You going in circles doesn't work
for me. Sorry.

> One of the best ways to find out which newsgroup is most appropriate for
> a given topic is to do a search for messages containing relevant keywords
> in Google Groups.

Nice. So you are going to do that for me ? 'Cause I have zero wish to sign
up for "google groups". Or any other like it. I already have to see them
necro-bumping multiple years old posts or adverts for viagra, hacking
services and crap like that.

besides, I already did my searching. Quite a bit of it actually. If my
answer would have been in there I would have already found it, and not have
posted here.

> On the other hand, if "C++" strikes you as a more relevant keyword than
> "linux", your judgement of such matters is not to be trusted, so perhaps
> asking for advice would be a better idea.

Good, than we are now on the same page. I seek advice, and you think me
asking for advice is a good idea. So ? Or are you no Linux person ?
Actualy, I don't think I have to ask that.

>> Besides, keith isn't all that good in picking a "more apropriate"
>> newsgroup
>> either, and you are not even trying ...
>
> It's your search, I was just explaining how to conduct it.

As I already explained to you, no you didn't.

> If such a solution would be acceptable to you, I'd recommend going to
> comp.unix.programmer

Another nitwit who doesn't seem to understand that Unix != Linux.

As I said it to Keith, I might there well be asked to leave for the same
reason you use to try to eject me here. And where you don't, they would
actualy have a point.

>> :-) The Linux people here will /really/ like you for implicitily calling
>> them non-knowledgable.
>
> Huh?
> I suggested nothing of the kind.

You're not really smart, are you ? I ask a Linux and programming related
question as I assume that there would also be linux people here, some of
which might well know what the answer to my question is.

But you're saying that my question is not apropriate here. I can only
assume that you do not think the Linux people could know the answer.

Actually, someone has already proven you wrong in that regard.

> The minimum level of linux expertise in this newsgroup is 0

You like to throw some great-sounding but actually meaning absolutily
nothing blurbs like that around, do you ? First the "significantly less
than a 100%" - from a 100% you can only go down, and "significantly" can
mean about /anything/ in that 100% range. Is "5% less" significant ? Is
"50% less" significant ? Well, that depends on what that "significant" is
applied.

Yes, ofcourse the mininmum level is Zero. Perhaps one of the Windows people
has not ever heard about that OS (hard to imagine, but hey, its possible).

In the same vein I can, with absolute certainty, tell you that the maximum
level of linux expertise here is 100%.

Next you will probably try to tell me that water is wet. Or is that a bit
of a spoiler ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Am 02.07.23 um 11:03 schrieb R.Wieser:
> Keith,
>> You skipped the part where Thomas Dickey demonstrated using
>> ncurses without taking over the screen.
>
> Lol.
>
> Third paragraph, first sentence :
>
> "Here's a *non-working* example of what I'm trying to do."
>
> (bolding by me).

Is it your first time you read StackOverflow? Of course, the one who
asks the question has a non-working solution. You should read the
answer, not the question.

Christian

"R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> writes:
> Keith,
>
>> You could post a single message on this thread saying that
>> you're going to continue the discussion in comp.unix.programmer.
>
> Ah yes, about that : Are you aware that Linux != Unix ? I might well be
> told to leave that group for the same reason you are trying to eject me from
> this one ...

Yes, I'm aware. At least the first part of your original question was
not specific to Linux. Recognizing arrow keys on input, for example,
can be done using interfaces defined by POSIX, which is supported by all
Unix-like systems. The curses interface (which provides similar
functionality in a way that doesn't quite meet your requirements) is
defined by POSIX.

You mentioned the "console", apparently referring to the Linux virtual
console, but in most ways it behaves very similarly to any other modern
terminal emulator.

I'm not the only person who has suggested that comp.unix.programmer
would be a better place for your question. Apparently you'd rather
stay here and argue with people who are trying to help you.

Detecting modifier keys (shift, control, alt) separately is another
matter. It's impossible in some contexts. Detecting them on a
Linux virtual console is probably possible, but I don't know how.
That might be a question for a Linux-specific newsgroup; I don't know
which one, but perhaps something under the comp.os.linux.* hierarchy.
"man console_codes" might be helpful; it does discuss modifier keys.

>> You can still do that. It would be far less rude than what
>> you're doing now.
>
> Which is ? That I ignore your "I'm a Windows C++ programmer and could not
> care less about the Linux C++ programmers that are here" attitude ?

No, you've been posting here repeatedly without asking anything that's
specific to C++.

[...]

>> You skipped the part where Thomas Dickey demonstrated using
>> ncurses without taking over the screen.
>
> Lol.
>
> Third paragraph, first sentence :
>
> "Here's a *non-working* example of what I'm trying to do."
>
> (bolding by me).

Yes, I know. I wrote that in my question.

> A quick peek at the result could have told you the same :
>
> "
> Press UP, DOWN, Escape, LEFT, RIGHT
> Incorrect input: (-1, -1, -1, -1, -1)
> "
>
> He even mentions the "intimately tied to taking over the entire screen" as a
> standing problem in his "update" paragraph.

Yes, *I* wrote that as part of the *question*. I was suggesting
that you read Thomas Dickey's *answer*. (FYI, he's been maintaining
ncurses since 1996.)

Don't expect any more help from me.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Will write code for food.
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

On 7/2/23 16:49, R.Wieser wrote:
....
> Nice. So you are going to do that for me ? 'Cause I have zero wish to sign
> up for "google groups". Or any other like it. I already have to see them
> necro-bumping multiple years old posts or adverts for viagra, hacking
> services and crap like that.

"comp.os.linux.answers" appears to be a fairly active linux oriented
group, which frequently contains messages matching my search terms
"linux console raw keyboard terminal". I would still suggest that
<https://www.linux.org/forums/> might be more useful than any Usenet
Newsgroup.

Interestingly enough, when I also included "multi-byte", the messages
retrieved were posted almost exclusively in various newsgroups that had
"freebsd" rather than "linux" in their names. The reason might be
obvious to someone who knows more than I do about the relationship
between freebsd and linux.

> Good, than we are now on the same page. I seek advice, and you think me
> asking for advice is a good idea. So ? Or are you no Linux person ?

As I indicated, I have been using almost exclusively Linux for 30 years
now. I also don't know how to solve your problem to your satisfaction.
If there is in fact a solution, you'll need someone with more Linux
expertise than me.

[Restoring snipped context]
>> I'm more interested in a POSIX generic solution rather than a Linux-specific one.
[End of restored context]
>> If such a solution would be acceptable to you, I'd recommend going to
>> comp.unix.programmer
>
> Another nitwit who doesn't seem to understand that Unix != Linux.

I very clearly distinguished Unix and Linux in the part of my message
that you chose to snip - how could you derive from that the conclusion
that I was confusing them?

>>> :-) The Linux people here will /really/ like you for implicitily calling
>>> them non-knowledgable.
>>
>> Huh?
>> I suggested nothing of the kind.
>
> You're not really smart, are you ? I ask a Linux and programming related
> question as I assume that there would also be linux people here, some of
> which might well know what the answer to my question is.
>
> But you're saying that my question is not apropriate here. I can only
> assume that you do not think the Linux people could know the answer.

No, I think you'll get answers of varying quality, depending upon how
subtle the issue is. The biggest danger is that if a linux issue is too
subtle, an answer given by a Linux user in a C++ group might be wrong in
a way that's too subtle for any of the other Linux users here to catch.
That's less likely to be the case in a newsgroup devoted to Linux.

> Actually, someone has already proven you wrong in that regard.

Oh - who? The only response you've received that you haven't denigrated
yet was the one suggesting that you use readline(), and you haven't
posted any follow-up indicating that it actually met your needs. If
that's the solution to your problem, then your description of your
problem made it seem far more complicated than it actually was.

....
> Yes, ofcourse the mininmum level is Zero. Perhaps one of the Windows people
> has not ever heard about that OS (hard to imagine, but hey, its possible).

It's not just one such person - there's many people here who have made
it quite clear that they don't know much of anything about Linux, and
couldn't care less.

> In the same vein I can, with absolute certainty, tell you that the maximum
> level of linux expertise here is 100%.

That seems incredibly unlikely to me. I've seen the levels of Linux
expertise displayed both here and in comp.UNIX.programmer - those levels
are much higher in c.u.p., which is entirely reasonable. If a lowly UNIX
group displays more linux expertise than a c.l.c++, how much higher
should the Linux expertise be in a group that actually has "linux" in
the group name?

Christian,

> You should read the answer, not the question.

Can you tell me what the first line of that answer was ? Was it something
like

[quote]
The filter function, called before initscr, tells curses to use a single
line (rather than the whole screen).
[/quote]

?

Yeah, no. I have been quite clear I can't use cooked input, and it still
messes with the screen.

Luckily Pavel was a bit more forthcoming than you, and made it clear that
there was a bit of a trick involved. Which ofcourse was not mentioned
there.

But if it actually does grab a screenline (and displays any output and/or
restores that screenline after exiting the call) while allowing me to grab
keystrokes (does the callback have a "ignore this keystroke" return value ?
I have not looked yet) than I again can't use it.

Bottom line : Yes, I ready that answer. To me it looks that you didn't.
Or perhaps just ignored the "side effects" of that method, because they do
not matter to you.

If I'm wrong and that method actually doesn't mess with the screen *at all*
than you're welcome to point out how thats been done.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Keith,

>> Ah yes, about that : Are you aware that Linux != Unix ?
....
> Yes, I'm aware.

Than why did you try to push me to that newsgroup. It makes zero sense.

> At least the first part of your original question was
> not specific to Linux.

You mean the part above the "second question" ? If so, what *didn't* you
understand about

[quote=me, initial message]
I was wondering if this perhaps is already part of Linux ...
[/quote]

?

Also, thruout the thread there are multiple mentionings of Linux specific
usage, some of which I acknowledged to having found them myself. If
nothing than that should have given you a clue to what OS I was working on.

You complain abut me not reading everything and thus missing stuff ? I
suggest you take a long, hard look in the mirror.

> You mentioned the "console", apparently referring to the Linux virtual
> console

I have no idea, as my "/please/ tell me the difference between them"
requests have never been answered. Which, by the way, feels to me like
nobody here actually knows the distinction themselves.

.... and you have now introduced yet another phrase to that list, bringing it
up to ... six?

But looking at the "virtual" part of it, isn't that not something that can
only be true when you use a GUI ? In that case I think you might also have
missed my mentioning (in my second post) of "my "bullseye lite"
installation".

.... Which also should have been a clue-by-four that I was indeed using
Linux.

> I'm not the only person who has suggested that comp.unix.programmer
> would be a better place for your question.

True. You're one of exactly two who said that. And that makes it better
.... how exactly ? How many people are there in this newsgroup ?

Besides ofcourse that you tried to dump me into a non-Linux newsgroup. :-(

> Apparently you'd rather stay here and argue with people who are
> trying to help you.

The people who wanted to help me already did. You and james are just
keeping on claiming I should not be here. Other than some "because I say
so" I have not gotten any clarification of that.

> I was suggesting that you read Thomas Dickey's *answer*.

I refer you to my reply to 'Christian', just before my reply to you.

> Don't expect any more help from me.

Like you trying to set me up to fail by suggesting I (re)post in a Unix
related group ? Yeah, I surely could do without such shennigans.

But, thank you for your (initial) attempts to come up with something
workable. Alas, as I've mentioned, something with a "side" effect of
touching the screen is unusable to me.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

James,

> "comp.os.linux.answers" appears to be a fairly active linux oriented
> group

Thank you for that suggestion. Alas, ethernal september (my newsgroup host)
doesn't seem to carry it. :-\

> I would still suggest that <https://www.linux.org/forums/>

Thank you again for that suggestion. Alas, I'm quite reluctant to sign up
to anything just to get a single answer.

Also, when I try to have a peek at what they are offering I 1) get an
"insecure connection". When I than bypass the certificate problem I 2) end
up on a cloudflare server which returns a "403 Forbidden". It also
doesn't help that 3) it demands JS to be enabled, which I keep disabled.

> As I indicated, I have been using almost exclusively Linux for 30 years
> now. I also don't know how to solve your problem to your satisfaction.

*Thank you* for saying that. It means that I can stop trying to search
for it (and just use whatever I already came up with myself).

>> Actually, someone has already proven you wrong in that regard.
>
> Oh - who? The only response you've received that you haven't denigrated
> yet was the one suggesting that you use readline(),

I rejected it the first time, as I have no use for cooked input. It was
Pavel who clarified it and showed that I could possibly use its callback to
get what I wanted.

.... though a more recent post seems to indicate that that call still grabs
part of the the screen, which again/still makes it (way) less usable to me.

As for "denigrated" ? Think (read) again. I'm not known for just saying
"no" to something, I tend to describe why there is a mismatch between the
offered solution and what I am after. If you can't handle a "thats not
quite it and {this} is the reason why" than thats your problem, not mine.

> I very clearly distinguished Unix and Linux in the part of my message
> that you chose to snip - how could you derive from that the conclusion
> that I was confusing them?

By trying to push my Linux related question into a Unix related newsgroup.
Are you daft or something ? Or just suffering from dementia ?

> No, I think you'll get answers of varying quality,

Which is another "water is wet" kind of thing. Skipped.

> That's less likely to be the case in a newsgroup devoted to Linux.

I recently asked a RPi platform-specific hardware and Linux OS specific
question in an RPi specific newsgroup. For some reason people there where,
for whatever reason, coming up with all kinds of Non-RPi references. You
where saying ?

IOW, that pendulum swings both ways.

But granted, there is a distinct possibility, and I'm open to suggestions.
Just not bogus ones. :-(

>> In the same vein I can, with absolute certainty, tell you that the
>> maximum
>> level of linux expertise here is 100%.
>
> That seems incredibly unlikely to me. I've seen the levels of Linux
> expertise displayed both here and in comp.UNIX.programmer

:-) Thats the problem with grabbing the correct interpretation of what
you're reading. As I tried to explain as reponse to your "less than a 100%"
and "minimum is 0" blurbs.

Knowledge-wise you /cannot/ go under zero, just as your "significantly less
than 100%" /cannot/ be anything than being less than that 100% (besides what
"significantly" might actually be).

IOW, just like your "minimum is 0" blurb, the maximum is 100%. And water is
wet. But while the minimum might actually be reached by just having a
single nincompoop in the group, I grant you that the opposite will be much
harder to reach - even for just a single person.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser.