Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  nodelist  faq  login

Pause for storage relocation.


programming / comp.lang.forth / latest

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 18 Minutes ago by: Hans Bezemer

BTW, clean code - getting it to run under 4tH was a breeze! Thanks for publishing this! Hans Bezemer

Re: unit test words (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Hours 24 Minutes ago by: axtens

And an example of its use in the documentation on question-dupe at http://lars.nocrew.org/forth2012/core/qDUP.html

Re: unit test words (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Hours 45 Minutes ago by: axtens

My apologies. Okay, that's very interesting. I shall look into it further. Thank you. --Bruce

Re: unit test words (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 3 Hours 11 Minutes ago by: axtens

What I was after originally was not a "test suite" but a "unit test library". I'm not really interested in establishing whether the Forth is compliant with a Forth standard. I'm more interested in working within the pedagogical framework

Re: unit test words (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 4 Hours 14 Minutes ago by: minf...@arcor.de

IMO the Forth core wordset and its associated test programs tester.fr and core.fr should run on any Forth system. It is the "agreed" bare minimum. If it does not, the system is incomplete or presents a diverging dialect. Bear in mind th

Re: unit test words (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 4 Hours 58 Minutes ago by: axtens

The other problem is finding a Forth standard that everyone will, if not "agree to", at least will consent to.

Re: IS vs. DEFER! (was: Naming for parsing words) (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 5 Hours 18 Minutes ago by: dxforth

Does that make a VARUE an 'almost-variable' :) How many languages do you know have "almost constants"? Sorry, a VALUE is a variable. Good luck in the real world. A better meme is don't break common practice - especially when one is

Re: unit test words (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 6 Hours ago by: axtens

Agreed. However, unless someone takes on the challenge of writing a standard Forth track at Exercism, the only example of a forth-ish language there will be 8th.

Re: unit test words (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 6 Hours 50 Minutes ago by: Anton Ertl

The Hayes tester and its descendent, ttester. Gerry Jackson maintains a suite of unit tests for the standard words: https://github.com/gerryjackson/forth2012-test-suite where you can see usage examples. - anton

Re: IS vs. DEFER! (was: Naming for parsing words) (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 7 Hours 28 Minutes ago by: Anton Ertl

I certainly used to think that variables are the Forth way, and that one should use values only for almost-constants that are not changed in compiled code. But values (without ADDR) have a nice property, as discussed in this thread. Fo

Re: IS vs. DEFER! (was: Naming for parsing words) (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 7 Hours 49 Minutes ago by: Anton Ertl

So that's ~1/1/1/2 cycles per iteration if your CPU runs slightly below 5GHz. My guess is that's because you are running it on a Zen3 CPU, where the hardware has special optimizations for avoiding the memory dependence latency we see on

unit test words

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 8 Hours 17 Minutes ago by: axtens

With the thought of writing a track on Exercism.org for 8th, are there any unit test words for Forth-family languages?

Re: IS vs. DEFER! (was: Naming for parsing words) (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 11 Hours 34 Minutes ago by: dxforth

That's where I would use a VARIABLE - which optimizing compilers can can keep in a register if they wish. The example code I previously posted has one VALUE referenced once and two VARIABLEs each referenced twice. If I were going to pri

Re: IS vs. DEFER! (was: Naming for parsing words) (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 15 Hours 57 Minutes ago by: Marcel Hendrix

[..] Hmm, weird. On iForth it is permutated: foo1 0.212 seconds elapsed. foo2 0.221 seconds elapsed. foo3 0.213 seconds elapsed. foo4 0.425 seconds elapsed. ok $0133D880 : foo1 $0133D88A xor rbx, rbx $0133D88D mov

Ann: Cforth for the ESP32 has been updated.

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 16 Hours 23 Minutes ago by: Jos Ven

1) Low power features like deep-sleep, lightsleep and wake up. 2) ESP-NOW for reliable fast wireless communications between 2 Esp32 systems without a router or accespoint. With or without confirmations within a limited time specification

Re: IS vs. DEFER! (was: Naming for parsing words) (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 20 Hours 22 Minutes ago by: Anton Ertl

Sorry for the confusion, I used both lxf and vfxlin 4.72 for this, with similar results. And just to show that it's not as bad for read-only or write-only memory accesses: : foo1 0 begin 2dup u> while 1+ repeat 2drop ; 0 value x 0 value

Re: IS vs. DEFER! (was: Naming for parsing words) (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 1 Day 1 Hour ago by: Anton Ertl

Sure, if you support ADDR, you cannot keep values in registers in many situations (and the remaining situations are probably so few that you just keep them in memory all the time). But there are also those who advocate not using locals,

Re: IS vs. DEFER! (was: Naming for parsing words) (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 1 Day 11 Hours ago by: dxforth

Keeping things in registers usually refers to constants or locals. My understanding of VALUEs is that they're read far more often than written and, as such, your use above would appear to be something of an anomaly. FWIW I don't expect A

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 1 Day 16 Hours ago by: Jali Heinonen

Thanks, I found a working Python implementation. Seems to be faster than my wheel sieve conversion for the 8th but luckily I can easily beat it's performance by parallelizing my code. It's easy as wheel sieve allows finding primes between

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 1 Day 18 Hours ago by: Marcel Hendrix

[..] Using a bit array uncovered a likely reason for the discontinuity in the speed results. The bit results start off slower than the ones using bytes. The Intel bit manipulation instructions are not very fast -- extracting the bits 'by

Re: Game of Life in APL ... in Forth (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 1 Day 22 Hours ago by: Brian Fox

Thanks. I knew about CoSy but not Lang5. Lang5 in Perl... is that a gauntlet being thrown down that I hear?

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days ago by: Anton Ertl

So? Let's test it on a Ryzen 5800X: perf stat -e cycles gforth-fast ../gforth/siev.fs -e ": foo 1000 0 do 1899 . loop ; ..." cycles ... 31203365 bye 300973318 main bye 35385551 foo bye MAIN runs the sieve (made slightly faster t

Re: IS vs. DEFER! (was: Naming for parsing words) (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 1 Hour ago by: Anton Ertl

Difficult? Let's phrase the question in a less loaded way: Q: Why does Gforth not support ADDR on value-flavoured words? A: E.g., because without ADDR a future version of Gforth can keep the value V in a register in the loop

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 1 Hour ago by: Jan Coombs

jan@mypc:$ python SieveOfAtkin.py 229 [2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29, 31, 37, 41, 43, 47, 53, 59, 61, 67, 71, 73, 79, 83, 89, 97, 101, 103, 107, 109, 113, 127, 131, 137, 139, 149, 151, 157, 163, 167, 173, 179, 181, 191, 193, 197,

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 2 Hours ago by: none

I've seen code in this thread that made the sieve of Atkin a test of the speed of printing code. Long ago the original byte benchmark turned into measuring the speed of `` 1899 . '' instead of the speed of sieving. The difference between

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 2 Hours ago by: none

If you mean this: https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#boolean-operations-and-or-not Short circuit operation in Python is a feature, not a bug. This is actually widespread e.g. this is c-idiom: if ( pc || *pc ) { ... } Short c

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 3 Hours ago by: Jali Heinonen

Thanks, does your SieveOfAtkin use one huge buffer for primes? Version I posted uses currently just 1000 element array and needs a shit loads of iterations to find and output millions of primes. It also needs to zero out the primes array

Re: IS vs. DEFER! (was: Naming for parsing words) (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 3 Hours ago by: dxforth

Gforth seems to be the 'odd man out' here. A user may well ask why has it made access to VALUEs so difficult.

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 4 Hours ago by: Marcel Hendrix

I learned a lot more from your level-headed experiment than from the Wikipedia page... Next, and probably last, step will be to limit memory use. The MOD hack should obviously go (as you've shown) and I can make sieve a bit array. That

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 5 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

I looked up <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieve_of_Atkin> and it discusses performance relative to Erathostenes quite a bit. I won't reproduce that here, but I note that Erathostenes is O(N log log N) compared to O(N) for Atkin. log lo

Re: IS vs. DEFER! (was: Naming for parsing words) (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 6 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

If you feel this way, you as a system designer can devise the interface between Forth and assembly language accordingly; or as a user of a third-party Forth system, you can choose a Forth system that satisfies your requirement. - anton

Re: IS vs. DEFER! (was: Naming for parsing words) (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 9 Hours ago by: dxforth

The choice whether a VALUE or a VARIABLE is used should have nothing to do with whether one is using high-level or assembler. In making the former harder to use, one is saying VALUEs for forth and VARIABLEs for assembler.

Re: HOMOSEXUAL OF PEDOPHILE KIND: PAOLO BARRAI (BITCOIN: THAT HE USES

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 11 Hours ago by: ANDREAS NIGG. REVOLU

L'ASSASSINO PUTI卐NAZISTA PAOLO BARRAI, A MILANO, VIVEVA IN VIA IPPODROMO 105 (SAN SIRO) LI, IL KILLER #PAOLOBARRAI SPACCIAVA COCAINA X I NDRANGHETISTI FRATELLI MARTINO, PURE DI SAN SIRO (FOTO). CHE POI UNÍ AL FIDUCIARIO DELINQUENTE #OLI

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 15 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

Yes, it's more work for Erathostenes, don't know how amenable Atkin is for that. For time results you will see cache effects, and complexity theory usually does not model that. The instruction counts are not affected by cache misses, a

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 16 Hours ago by: Marcel Hendrix

[..] From primes.txt: 2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 47 53 59 61 67 71 73 79 83 89 97 101 103 107 109 113 127 131 137 139 149 151 157 163 167 173 179 181 191 193 197 199 211 223 227 229 I guess that will up the runtime a few notc

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 16 Hours ago by: Marcel Hendrix

[..] Outputting a million primes is indeed slower than the original ~120 ms (about 25 times). Other Forths can probably do this much faster as iForth is made to flush the output file. Creating --- Sieve of Atkin Version 0.04 --- T

Re: Simplicity and the text interpreter (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 16 Hours ago by: Paul Rubin

From Dijkstra's 1972 Turing Award lecture: With a few very basic principles at its foundation, it [LISP] has shown a remarkable stability. Besides that, LISP has been the carrier for a considerable number of in a sense our mo

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 16 Hours ago by: Jali Heinonen

Does this linked Python code really work? With upper limit of 229 it seems to find the following primes: [2, 3, 5, 7, 13, 19, 29, 53, 67, 85, 103, 173, 199] There should 50 primes, not 13 primes?

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 16 Hours ago by: Marcel Hendrix

[..] I don't know about "and redirect output into text file", I would write-file to stdout if that is an allowed scenario? Bare numbers are independently duplicated by Anton in this thread for several Forth systems, including iForth.

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 17 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

I have now tried to run it with 100GB on a machine with 128GB RAM that is not running anything significant. However, the out-of-memory killer reaped it after a while, despite "free" showing 125GB free; ok, 100GB for the sieve and 100GB f

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 17 Hours ago by: Jali Heinonen

Can your Forth version really find all the 1,000,000 prime numbers between number range of 0 - 15,485,863, output all the prime numbers as formatted line of text and redirect output into text file in about 120 milliseconds? Interesting as

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 17 Hours ago by: Marcel Hendrix

[..] That would be real work, I would need to sieve in batches. Maybe I don't understand what you mean. That is included, but I don't count the time to build the MOD lookup. [..] On my AMD 5800X the interesting gap is between 10,000,

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 17 Hours ago by: Marcel Hendrix

[..] That is 57 *seconds*, with n,485,863, and finds 1,000,000 primes? Note that Forth's Atkin (above in the thread) does that in ~120 *milliseconds*, on an AMD Ryzen 7 5800X. According to Geekbench V, single-core 64bit, the expected d

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 18 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

I have made it portable to Gforth, lxf, sf, vfx64, and posted the result on <https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/programs/sieveofatkin.fs>. Basically all things that I changed, except for the timing code, are gratuitious incompatibili

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 19 Hours ago by: Jali Heinonen

I tested with generating first million primes on my RPI 4B and redirecting output into text file. Resulting time is over eight times faster than the time mentioned in your source listing and that time includes program startup and writing

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 19 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

More like 4. Numbers from a Skylake: [~/forth:130297] perf stat -e instructions -e cycles -e L1-dcache-load-misses -e LLC-load-misses iforth "1000000000 include $HOME/forth/sieveofatkin.4th primes bye" Try: SieveOfAtkin . PRIMES

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 21 Hours ago by: Marcel Hendrix

[..] It was a bit of a surprise to me that it was so slow, given that the reference to this method came from a prime thread on the GMP mailing list. It is not easy to see which instructions are slow, given that the operation count is ind

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 21 Hours ago by: Marcel Hendrix

[..] 9007199254740992 constant bigx

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 23 Hours ago by: Jali Heinonen

I adapted some code using wheel factorization for testing primes from the Inferno operating system sources for the 8th programming language. Available here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/96c58nykffo0wuu/wheel.8th?dl=0 I have not done any tim

Re: Simplicity and the text interpreter (was: Naming for parsing words) (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 2 Days 23 Hours ago by: Hans Bezemer

Understanding sarcasm is a skill, I suppose. If you'd read his writings about e.g. Ada, you would have understood it was sarcasm. HB

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 3 Days 3 Hours ago by: none

This the deception for those who inspect the O(n) behaviour. Maybe Atkin uses less operations for n to infinity, there is a constant C in front, that can count instructions needed for a single operation. That may mean -- as you have demon

Re: Simplicity and the text interpreter (was: Naming for parsing words) (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 3 Days 4 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

In my experience Java is quite burdensome. I actually tool the effort to check your claim, and what I found indicates that it is a blatant lie: <https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/OtherDocs/Haskell.html> Some quotes fro

Re: IS vs. DEFER! (was: Naming for parsing words) (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 3 Days 5 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

If they know where to find them, they can. The value might be in a register, however; it also might be in a register in some parts of the code, and in memory in other parts. - anton

Re: IS vs. DEFER! (was: Naming for parsing words) (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 3 Days 5 Hours ago by: dxforth

So assembler routines can't access VALUEs ? #512 value #OUTBUF \ buffer size code WRITECHAR ( char -- ) addr #outbuf ) ax mov outsiz ) ax cmp 1 $ jnz c: (flushwrite) 4 ?ferror ;c 1 $: ax pop outptr ) di mov al 0 [di] mov

Re: Simplicity and the text interpreter (was: Naming for parsing words) (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 3 Days 15 Hours ago by: Hans Bezemer

Try Java. You'll find it impressive. It's built EXACTLY from that perspective. Dijkstra LOVED it. Hans Bezemer

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 3 Days 15 Hours ago by: Marcel Hendrix

Well, so much for CS. I adapted both Atkin and the standard Sieve so that I could run them with array sizes between 1k and 10GByte, with the following results: Standard Sieve: n runtime (ms) primes 1,000 0

Re: Simplicity and the text interpreter (was: Naming for parsing words) (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 3 Days 18 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

But your three rule engine had no place for add-ons. No, it actually is the direction I prefer: have an extensible text interpreter. And once you have that, you can make your rule (1) and (2) extensions, too. [...] You can burden the

Re: Game of Life in APL ... in Forth (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 3 Days 18 Hours ago by: NN

if you like forth and you like apl you might find this one worth a look too 1) https://aplwiki.com/index.php?title=Lang5 2) https://aplwiki.com/wiki/CoSy

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 3 Days 20 Hours ago by: Jali Heinonen

Is it really faster than sieve implementation that is wheel factorized to the max?

Re: Simplicity and the text interpreter (was: Naming for parsing words) (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 4 Days 2 Hours ago by: Hans Bezemer

Compilation sets STATE and enters the compiler. ";" compiles EXIT, SMUDGEs the latest definition and reenters the interpreter. IMHO it should not even recognize doubles. I consider it to be an add-on. I know it's a quite radical idea and

IS vs. DEFER! (was: Naming for parsing words) (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 4 Days 2 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

When I made the DEFER proposal, I proposed IS because of common practice, DEFER! as a non-parsing alternative, and DEFER@ in order to get the current contents of the deferred word. Stephen Pelc suggested a parsing alternative to DEFER@,

Re: Naming for parsing words (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 4 Days 2 Hours ago by: Hans Bezemer

You're kidding, right? I desperately hope so. Because IS is just another TO. By seriously promoting this, you say: 23 ' FOO ! I don't think this helps readability - on the contrary. Hans Bezemer

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 4 Days 3 Hours ago by: Marcel Hendrix

[..] Probably easier to understand. Speed unchanged. (* * LANGUAGE : ANS Forth with extensions * PROJECT : Forth Environments * DESCRIPTION : Sieve of Atkin, fastest Sieve O(n) * CATEGORY : Example * AUTHOR : Marcel H

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 4 Days 4 Hours ago by: Marcel Hendrix

[..] What is there about "with extensions" that you don't understand? (* * LANGUAGE : ANS Forth with extensions * PROJECT : Forth Environments * DESCRIPTION : Sieve of Atkin, fastest Sieve O(n) * CATEGORY : Example * AUTHO

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 4 Days 10 Hours ago by: dxforth

"ANS Forth" ? Perhaps according to your standards :)

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 4 Days 10 Hours ago by: Marcel Hendrix

[..] Optimized? Maybe according to Python standards... (* * LANGUAGE : ANS Forth with extensions * PROJECT : Forth Environments * DESCRIPTION : Sieve of Atkin, fastest Sieve O(n) * CATEGORY : Example * AUTHOR : Marcel

AmForth ready for adoption

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 4 Days 18 Hours ago by: Bernd Paysan

Erich Wälde <ew.forth@nassur.net> writes: details, because I time I of I'm not way. for these I around acquisition To time, project happens to that and allows mentioned the releases. I A am experience. important

Re: Sieve of Atkin (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 4 Days 20 Hours ago by: Jan Coombs

The explanation is good, thanks. This seems to work, how's your python? This is the optimized implementation proposed by Zsolt KOVACS: from: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/21783160/sieve-of-atkin-implementation-in-python

Simplicity and the text interpreter (was: Naming for parsing words) (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 4 Days 21 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

No compilation? No compilation? I guess you want a traditional text interpreter rather than the interpret-only text interpreter you outlined above. let's take a look at a very tradtitional one: This is taken from Ting's System's Guid

Re: Naming for parsing words (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 4 Days 21 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

A standard variant of this code: ' foo ' bar defer! - anton

Re: Naming for parsing words (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 4 Days 23 Hours ago by: none

Totally agreed. But in my book: 'FOO ALIAS BAR ' is a normal word, but it has the prefix flag. 'FOO is the same constant in compilation and interpretation mode. In this way there is no exception with numbers, 1 is the prefix that understa

Sieve of Atkin

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 4 Days 23 Hours ago by: Marcel Hendrix

Apparently the fastest possible Sieve (in the limit). https://www.baeldung.com/cs/prime-number-algorithms . Unfortunately, the pseudo-code (?) is somewhat ambiguous. -marcel

Re: Naming for parsing words (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 5 Days ago by: Hans Bezemer

In my programming: no - they're just too handy. Imagine not having S" and having to poke in characters into a string one by one - no matter what mechanism you throw at it. I even confiscated C" for that reason in 4tH to avoid too many C, ;

Re: Naming for parsing words (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 5 Days 1 Hour ago by: Hans Bezemer

Nice to see that "S Jack" puts me in the realm of "Forth purists", where 4tH cannot be classified as "pure" by any measure - including the words it supports - which are in part just there to facilitate the particular 4tH architecture, but

Re: Naming for parsing words (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 5 Days 4 Hours ago by: none

Then I would prefer: [: "hello world" TYPE ;] : hello or even c++/java/.. compatible: { "hello world" TYPE } : hello Test words benefit from 2 separate code sequences plugged in. I use REGRESS test-baz baz2 S: 123 456 <EOL> Groetjes Al

Re: Naming for parsing words (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 5 Days 7 Hours ago by: dxforth

But do they [beyond the few that already exist]? A few may enjoy creating new parsing words (like the few that enjoy creating macros) but I wouldn't say either was intrinsic to Forth, or even popular. If creating new parsing words were

Re: Is it another „tradition” (fig-For (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 5 Days 9 Hours ago by: dxforth

Elizabeth was talking about apps Chuck wrote. He could afford to be more liberal with Forth - but only after leaving Forth Inc. The company had customers to consider and to whom change was anathema.

Re: Naming for parsing words (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 5 Days 19 Hours ago by: S Jack

No. For new words where the choice is to make it parsing or postfix I choose postfix. I've re-defined some existing parsing words to be postifx such as FORGET and SEE: ' foo FORGET ' foo SEE But I don't go for purity which usually

Re: Naming for parsing words (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 5 Days 21 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

I avoid these unless there is some reason not to. In particular: Instead of ['] FOO, I write `FOO. The latter can be copy-pasted into interpretive code. Instead of POSTPONE FOO, I write ]] FOO [[. Especially nice for multiple words.

Re: Technical Manual (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 5 Days 22 Hours ago by: Brian Fox

Yes I used a dialect of Forth that lets you redirect standard output to a file. I intended all of these words to be interpreted. The words totag and toquote are calling PARSE so you are correct, they will not compile. To compile them

Re: Is it another „tradition” (fig-For (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 5 Days 23 Hours ago by: dxforth

The translation is complicated by the fact BC in 8080 could be used either as a 16-bit index or discrete 8-bit regs (B,C). One can't do that with SI DI etc. There's BX but that's used to emulate HL. Any chance of achieving 1:1 code effi

Re: Re: Is it another „tradition” (fig-Forth_for_x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 6 Days 2 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

My understanding is that his approach is to rewrite from scratch rather than revise the existing code. Looking at the changes from his Forth that most Forth systems are descended from to cmForth to colorForth, these are not revisions. -

Re: Technical Manual (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 6 Days 3 Hours ago by: Stephen Pelc

Win32Forth used to contain a partial clone of MPE's DocGen system. I forget what it is called. Alternatively, use the real thing. If you really want an interactive HTML system for Forth, talk to me or Gerald off-line. Stephen

Re: Is it another „tradition” (fig-For (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 6 Days 3 Hours ago by: dxforth

When the alternative is writing 8086 code from scratch it may have been seen as the lesser of two evils. Among the CP/M community there were at least a couple of free 80->86 translators. I used one to initially convert DX-Forth's 8080 s

Re: Re: Is it another „tradition” (fig-Forth for (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 6 Days 3 Hours ago by: Zbig

Indeed you're right; my remark wasn't 100% accurate. Use of LODSW alone and register selection was already at least partial optimization. Well it turned out we can move that process even further.

Re: Technical Manual (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 6 Days 4 Hours ago by: Rick C

Yes, thanks. I posted about this in another group and they talked about the SYSTEM command which seems like it will do just what I want. It has to be invoked with a command, but I think I already have an example of that for Win32Forth.

Re: Technical Manual (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 6 Days 4 Hours ago by: none

In MS-Windows I associate .frt with an editor and type to edit. The same applies probably to html files. You can try your luck with "aap.html" SYSTEM

Re: Re: Is it another „tradition” (fig-Forth_for_x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 6 Days 6 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

It's also not unusual: The story of how Microsoft ported Fortran-80 (and other products) to the 8086 is described in <https://retrocomputingforum.com/t/translation-of-8080-code-to-8086/1309>. The author concludes that the result made a di

Re: Technical Manual (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 6 Days 8 Hours ago by: Rick C

Yeah, that would work. I'm not seeing the advantage to writing the HTML for the pages in Forth, but possibly. The pages would all be similar, with at least three images, a schematic section, a PCB CAD image, and possibly a waveform imag

Re: Is it another „tradition” (fig-For (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 6 Days 9 Hours ago by: dxforth

Correct That's understandable considering few would have owned an 8086 at that time. Fig-Forth 8088/86 listing is dated MAR 1981. FIG had largely dropped support for Fig-Forth by then, opting instead to be involved in the Standards pro

Re: Is it another „tradition” (fig-For (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 6 Days 10 Hours ago by: dxforth

The changes appeared in L&P F83 approx two years after the FIG release. \ Boot up Vectors and NEXT Interpreter 04OCT83HHL LABEL >NEXT AX LODS AX W MOV 0 [W] JMP LABEL NEST W INC W INC RP DEC RP DEC IP 0 [

Re: Technical Manual (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 6 Days 13 Hours ago by: Brian Fox

My approach would be to create a little language that outputs html to a file. I did something like this for Rosetta code. (with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek, I tried to make Forth look like HTML ) https://www.rosettacode.org/wik

Re: Technical Manual (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 6 Days 14 Hours ago by: Rick C

Someone pointed out that an HTML file or even many other file types can simply be "run", similar to double clicking them in the GUI. How would that be done in Win32Forth?

Technical Manual

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 6 Days 15 Hours ago by: Rick C

I need to prepare some sort of technical manual that would provide a means of debugging a particular board. I was originally planning for it to contain a theory of operation, but also a guide that would provide detailed debug info for the

Re: Is it another „tradition” (fig-Forth for x86 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 6 Days 17 Hours ago by: Zbig

But MOV SI,[BX+2] means „copy contents pointed by BX+2” rather than „copy BX+2 to SI”, correct? So it won't work here as replacement. Anyway eliminated superfluous use of DX from NEXT, DOCOL, DOCON, DOVAR, DOUSE and DODOE — eve

Re: Game of Life in APL ... in Forth (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 6 Days 21 Hours ago by: Brian Fox

Wow. I thought it was masterfully done. Maybe it's "de rigeur" for folks here.

Re: Naming for parsing words (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 6 Days 22 Hours ago by: Ruvim

Do you avoid the standard parsing words? For example: "[']" "postpone" 's"' 'abort"' And what about defining words? I'm wondered why people continue to use parsing words if they dislike them. Why not introduce new words like: :def (

Re: Game of Life in APL ... in Forth (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 6 Days 23 Hours ago by: NN

Its been posted previously under https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.forth/c/jw6yU_yI15E/m/s09E4zscDQAJ and went unnoticed...

Game of Life in APL ... in Forth

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 6 Days 23 Hours ago by: Brian Fox

Saw this on Reddit Forth and thought C.L.F might like to see it. https://github.com/chmykh/apl-life Outstanding work IMHO by Alexander Serkov \ The Game of Life : life { _ } ←{ ↑ 1 ⍵ ∨ . ∧ 3 4 = + / , -1 0 1 ∘ . ⊖ -1 0 1

Re: Is it another „tradition” (fig-Forth for x86 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 7 Days ago by: Zbig

Indeed that was my understanding of this, that's why I saw that „undecided”, „splitted” solution as kind of code littering. But I thought: „maybe there's a valid reason”?

Re: Is it another „tradition” (fig-Forth for x86 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 7 Days ago by: Zbig

I'm afraid I'm already found a few; just I'd like to be sure I'm not missing the details. Do I really need to do DX incremention at all in simplified solution you propose? What for? Unmodified it'll still contain real CFA, not (a bit sen

Re: Is it another „tradition” (fig-Forth for x86 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 7 Days ago by: Zbig

NEXT: LDAX B ;(W) <- ((IP)) // A := BC C@ INX B ;(IP) <- (IP)+2 // BC := BC + 1 MOV L,A // L := A LDAX B // A := BC C@ INX B // BC := BC + 1 MOV H,A ;(HL) <- CFA // H := A ; IP uses BC, W uses HL ; So now W = (IP) and IP = former_IP + 2 NE

Re: Naming for parsing words (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 7 Days ago by: Hans Bezemer

Well, I think you mean by parsing - cutting up the TIB. In that case, we already have PARSE, PARSE-NAME (and 4tH has got its own "PARSE-WORD"). So, when designing this lib I took that into account: https://sourceforge.net/p/forth-4th/code

Re: Re: Is it another „tradition” (fig-Forth_for_x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 7 Days 2 Hours ago by: none

You are on the right track. On the 8080 you can only access memory by HL. The memory pointed to was called M. You can load stuff in single byte quantities. So this is typical 8080 idiom to load DE (register pair almost a 16 bit register)

Re: Is it another „tradition” (fig-Forth for x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 7 Days 3 Hours ago by: none

Be prepared to find vestigial organs in fig. Replace it with: NEXT: LODSW MOV BX,AX JMP [BX] NEXT1: MOV DX,BX INC DX JMP [BX] They were not fam

Re: Re: Is it another „tradition” (fig-Forth_for_x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 7 Days 3 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

I don't know much about the 8080, so I would be interested in an explanation. Looking at it again, I see NEXT1 MOV E,M ;(PC) <- ((W)) INX H MOV D,M So is M another name for (HL)? And H is the low-orde

Re: Is it another „tradition” (fig-For (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 7 Days 5 Hours ago by: dxforth

Do you know of an 8080 NEXT that's at least as fast that didn't?

Re: Re: Is it another „tradition” (fig-Forth_for_x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 7 Days 6 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

Why? If the 8086 porter started with the 8080 port, that would explain the decision to increment by 1 on the 8086: just do it like the 8080, then translate all the doers 1:1, too. Less potential for introducing bugs. Here we have 6502

Re: Is it another „tradition” (fig-Forth for x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 7 Days 6 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

Use a proper newsreader rathjer than Google Groups. If you use Google Groups, use only ASCII, and keep the line lengths <75 chars. Even then Google will do some mangling, but far less. Good question. Zech's book hasa table of various

Re: Is it another „tradition” (fig-For (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 7 Days 8 Hours ago by: dxforth

For 8-bit processors NEXT looked like this: ; 8080 FIG-FORTH NEXT LDAX B ;(W) <- ((IP)) INX B ;(IP) <- (IP)+2 MOV L,A LDAX B INX B MOV H,A ;(HL) <-

Re: Naming for parsing words (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 7 Days 9 Hours ago by: dxforth

I've tended to use /xxx to mean 'extract' e.g. /STRING /SIGN Any confusion with file path is just the nature of forth and the former should be in quotes anyway.

Re: Is it another „tradition” (fig-Forth for x86 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 7 Days 12 Hours ago by: Zbig

It's not an answer to my question. 1. „Moving Forth” by Brad Rodriguez actually describes usage of „W” a bit differently („This illustrates an important but rarely-elucidated principle: the address of the Forth word just entered

Re: Is it another „tradition” (fig-Forth for x86 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 7 Days 13 Hours ago by: S Jack

"NEXT is a run-time routine of the address interpreter. IP usually points to the next word to be executed in a colon definition. After the current word is executed, the contents of IP is moved into W and now IP is incremented, pointing to

Is it another „tradition” (fig-Forth for x86)?

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 7 Days 14 Hours ago by: Zbig

My guess is „it is”, still I'd like to become 100% sure. Here's the „NEXT” of that mentioned fig-Forth: NEXT: LODSW MOV BX,AX NEXT1: MOV DX,BX INC DX JMP [BX]

Re: Naming for parsing words (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 7 Days 16 Hours ago by: none

I am a proponent of outlawing parsing words, with an exception for denotations, say constants. E.g 'DROP or "AAP" are parsed by ' and " and generate a constant, independant of interpretation of compilation mode. That made it possible to r

Re: Naming for parsing words (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 7 Days 18 Hours ago by: S Jack

Bah, that a parsing word with immediate parameter is 'better readable' than a postfix operator. Most definitions contain postfix words and mixing in parsing words is style conflict so I avoid parsing words. May mean I miss some peephole

Naming for parsing words

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 7 Days 20 Hours ago by: Ruvim

In my post [1] in ForthHub I compare the different variants for naming parsing words. Namely, I mean the words for which compilation semantics include scanning/parsing the input stream, and, if interpretation semantics are defined for t

Re: A short on Forth on YouTube (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 7 Days 22 Hours ago by: S Jack

Yes. And when I wrote specs, I just put in facts and marketing would complain because they wanted it weasel worded so they could just drop in their marketing garbage without rework. Between marketing and x-wife I don't hear very well; not

Re: A short on Forth on YouTube (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 8 Days 8 Hours ago by: dxforth

Coming from an engineering background I had to get up to speed quickly when something new came along. For me, the ideal would be a book or manual which had all the technical details to which I could later refer, and chapter or two of int

Re: A short on Forth on YouTube (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 8 Days 21 Hours ago by: S Jack

Agree. No matter how much I like a subject it's hard to sit through a a video; give me a live professor any day or just point me to text that I can read on my own. Nice what you did. -- me

Re: A short on Forth on YouTube (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 9 Days 2 Hours ago by: Hans Bezemer

I'd already mastered Basic, Pascal and Z80 assembly and wanted to do another language. It cost me $40, but I got Artic Forth - which BTW is also featured in the short. While most languages left me about 20K (or even less) to play with, Fo

Re: A short on Forth on YouTube (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 9 Days 4 Hours ago by: dxforth

My introduction to Forth was a work colleague telling me about a new language he'd discovered. I don't recall the context other than he was quite excited by it. He was across everything microcomputers and his enthusiasm impressed me eno

Re: A short on Forth on YouTube (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 9 Days 8 Hours ago by: dxforth

An SF reader would need something to distract given it was written in a dialect well out of reach of most pockets. Why struggle with a text one could barely use and praise it to the heavens? SF represented Forth which thumbed its nose a

Re: A short on Forth on YouTube (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 10 Days ago by: Hans Bezemer

Fixed the description, thanks. BTW, my main channel is here: https://www.youtube.com/c/HansBezemer/videos Note that are a lot of (older) screen grabs there without any comment. Hans Bezemer

Re: A short on Forth on YouTube (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 10 Days ago by: Hans Bezemer

Personally, I don't like lengthy videos of a guy behind a terminal. And I don't say that to put the guy down in order to push my own video's - I really do feel like that that. You can take a look at my playlist on uBasic/4tH - it's all b

Re: A short on Forth on YouTube (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 10 Days 3 Hours ago by: Marcel Hendrix

[..] At least for me, 'Starting Forth's presentation was completely in-character with its content. Lampo's LaTeX introduction uses the same approach. A good illustration anchors a key concept in one's mind. -marcel

Re: A short on Forth on YouTube (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 10 Days 4 Hours ago by: none

Samuel Falvo published a number of things, notably conferences. A video from hmself https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvrE2ZGe-rs guides the viewer to building a text processing, but totally, no handwaving. I like this introduction: https

Re: A short on Forth on YouTube (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 10 Days 8 Hours ago by: dxforth

Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> wrote: What's there is mostly video conferences or presentations which even for forthers tend towards sleep :) Having to explain something of forth to an audience who may know nothing about it i

Re: A short on Forth on YouTube (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 10 Days 19 Hours ago by: Hans Bezemer

I haven't been religious in 50 odd years, so I doubt it very much ;-) I added an endscreen, but I'll do the description as well. Thanks for the tip! Hans Bezemer

Re: A short on Forth on YouTube (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 10 Days 19 Hours ago by: none

I presume that you are not the same person as Hans Bezemer : 1 hour 40 minutes about "Namaak-jezus" (fake-jezus) I was interested in your other videos, but I only managed to view a few of them. I suggest that you include the list of othe

Re: A short on Forth on YouTube (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 10 Days 22 Hours ago by: Hans Bezemer

I was wrong: "a terrible language from the mist of time, 1950-ies or something". Must be my age. Too many writes to the poor SSD. Data corrupt. Hans Bezemer

Re: A short on Forth on YouTube (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 11 Days 1 Hour ago by: Zbig

Oh, you meant something REALLY short. :)

Re: A short on Forth on YouTube (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 11 Days 1 Hour ago by: Jan Coombs

Mark Rendle said 1950s, I preferred the geese for accuracy, vocal consensus, and a common direction. Jan Coombs.

Re: A short on Forth on YouTube (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 11 Days 1 Hour ago by: Zbig

„Forth2020” https://www.youtube.com/c/Forth2020/videos „Silicon Valley Forth Interest Group” https://www.youtube.com/c/SiliconValleyForthInterestGroup/videos

Re: A short on Forth on YouTube (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 11 Days 2 Hours ago by: Hans Bezemer

For understandable reasons, I thought it was wise not to mention the existence of c.l.f. Watched that one! Forth is also mentioned as a (when I remember correctly) "horrible language from the 1980-ies". Hans Bezemer

Re: A short on Forth on YouTube (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 11 Days 5 Hours ago by: j.merkel

Hi Doug, thanks for quoting the URL, I didn't receive the original posting from my host individual.net ;-( Hi Hans, really cool! Well done and yes thanks. I really love digging around in the 4tH documentation. More than usable

Re: A short on Forth on YouTube (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 11 Days 6 Hours ago by: dxforth

I liked the imagery - telescopes, spacecraft, a shotgun, unfathomed waters, a globe divided and revolution. Alas, no gaggling geese... https://youtu.be/6A0bhAsAyGY 'Worst Programming Language Ever' ? https://youtu.be/vcFBwt1nu2U?t&30

Re: A short on Forth on YouTube (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 11 Days 12 Hours ago by: Doug Hoffman

Nice, Hans! I like it! Concise, to the point, easy and pleasant to watch. Thank you. -Doug On 5/13/22 1:45 PM, Hans Bezemer wrote:

A short on Forth on YouTube

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 11 Days 18 Hours ago by: Hans Bezemer

There are lots of shorts on lots of languages on YouTube. But not one on Forth. So I thought: I'm quite capable of doing that myself. So I did. You can view it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ml9s2HfpDZY Hans Bezemer

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 12 Days ago by: Hans Bezemer

Ok, let's break this down: Required concepts: Subset - that's a concept of set theory. It means that there is a larger set, of which this particular set is part of: Absolutism - I don't think we're talking politics here, so let's assume

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 12 Days 3 Hours ago by: Wayne morellini

DXForth. I read a bit of that law proposal text. It obviously can.be something misused, in order to protect bad state actors, not just what the cover study says. It would not surprise me that it is deliberately to protect corrupt people

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 12 Days 23 Hours ago by: Wayne morellini

Well, I looked at that link. I thought Jpit, must have been making up that text. It's remarkable how much he looks similar to me though. You don't believe me, ask Chuck. (If he can remember. I doubt Elisabeth does). Anyway, maybe I

Re: Why is that (fig-Forth for x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 13 Days 1 Hour ago by: none

It is the same with exceptions that are caught. If you can't fix the situation, that is a crash. If you catch the exception, that by itself changes nothing to the crash. Groetjes Albert

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 13 Days 8 Hours ago by: dxforth

Perhaps you've managed to push his buttons but somehow I doubt it. Typically Hans has been hard to provoke, required little approval and hasn't sought to impress the world. IOW "mostly harmless". The world could do with more harmless peo

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 13 Days 9 Hours ago by: Wayne morellini

Dutch. Ok. That fits. Now, Jpit, knock it off. I can name maybe one person who deserves such treatment here. Hand isn't that bad. He is being genuine about it unlike what somebody else was like. I don't want to hear you doing such t

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 13 Days 10 Hours ago by: Wayne morellini

Actual factual observation, you project emptiness onto an arguments with substance, a lot, because they are not shaped the way you want. This is typical behaviour of somebody who relied on the knowledge of others, as truth, and can't see

Re: Why is that (fig-Forth for x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 13 Days 10 Hours ago by: dxforth

That's a credible use. For reasons unknown MVP-FORTH (based on Fig-FORTH) removed both the WARM start vector and the built-in divide-by-zero checks. Anything that triggered the div-zero interrupt would drop you out of Forth. The worry

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 13 Days 11 Hours ago by: Wayne morellini

Well. It's pretty obvious from my statements, that apart from your consistent side tracks away from what you did wrong, into other areas that do not matter, as to why a person with everything happening and things are too much to research

Re: Why is that (fig-Forth for x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 13 Days 21 Hours ago by: S Jack

Not much help here I forget the details but I'm almost sure I used both cold and warm with DOS. I know I used warm with the Atari OS with its system error vector pointed to warm start which printed message and aborted. Nice that I didn't

Re: Some of you might find it interesting (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 13 Days 22 Hours ago by: Wayne morellini

Though I can barely read at the moment. The link works today, and the page is moderately interesting, but what was realised long ago. The whole mini word and blocks rather cuts across things. The intuition I received years ago, that s

Looking for some advice on Offete p8, p16, p24, p32, p64. Ep16, ep24,

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 13 Days 23 Hours ago by: Wayne morellini

Hi, I've just spent hours looking up information on Dr Ting's processor series, and would like to find out what the differences were? It is hard to find working information now. I have only found the ep16 and ep32 documentation, as a s

Re: Bug fix in FSL-based utility: voigt.4th (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 14 Days 9 Hours ago by: Krishna Myneni

On 5/10/22 21:36, Krishna Myneni wrote:

Bug fix in FSL-based utility: voigt.4th

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 14 Days 9 Hours ago by: Krishna Myneni

I discovered a serious bug in my Forth code for computing the Voigt function, which is a convolution of a Gaussian probability density and a Lorentzian probability density. This code is included in the 32/64-bit kForth packages, under f

Re: Why is that (fig-Forth for x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 15 Days 23 Hours ago by: Zbig

Conceivably. Thanks!

Re: Why is that (fig-Forth for x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 16 Days ago by: none

ciforth inherits these vectors from fig-Forth and they are still usable. -2 CELLS +ORIGIN is the cold start vector -1 CELLS +ORIGIN is the warm start vector If anything untowards happens in a linux executable, you have a last change to

Re: Why is that (fig-Forth for x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 16 Days 1 Hour ago by: Jan Coombs

Similarly, and also: When fig forth was being developed, a typical board would have discrete EPROM and RAM chips. The EPROM would contain the system monitor and interrupt vectors. The faster method is to develop the new forth image

Re: Why is that (fig-Forth for x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 16 Days 3 Hours ago by: dxforth

A potential use is systems which had a monitor ROM. MON Exit to the system monitor, leaving a re-entry to Forth, if possible. Forth could be re-entered using either COLD or WARM vectors. WARM entry would ensure user-

Re: Why is that (fig-Forth for x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 16 Days 4 Hours ago by: Zbig

Thanks, so it seems my initial „wild guess” that it's kind of „tradition” to keep that there (never mind is it later used at all) was proper. :)

Re: Why is that (fig-Forth for x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 16 Days 5 Hours ago by: dxforth

Boot-up Parameters This area consists of 34 bytes containing a jump to the cold start, jump to the warm re-start and initial values for user variables and registers. These values are altered as you make permanent extension

Re: Why is that (fig-Forth for x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 16 Days 8 Hours ago by: dxforth

FIG was designed to be portable across CPUs and host systems. Patch locations for jumps and debugging are to be expected. IIRC +ORIGIN was used as a reference to other fields in a Fig system. While a DOS-hosted system may have had litt

Re: Why is that (fig-Forth for x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 16 Days 12 Hours ago by: Zbig

Indeed that's self-understandable — my problem to be solved is: there isn't neither any label before "JMP WRM" nor there is anywhere in the code any reference to that line even in the form "ORIG+4" or the like. So it doesn't seem to be u

Re: Why is that (fig-Forth for x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 16 Days 13 Hours ago by: Jan Coombs

ORG 100H With the NOP these vectors are accessible at 4 byte boundaries in the 16b DR/PC/MS-DOS systems this is designed to run on. (search 'org 100h') From 'Fig Forth Systems Guide.pdf': "ABORT call ABORT, the warm start

Re: Why is that (fig-Forth for x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 16 Days 18 Hours ago by: Zbig

OK, if anyone's willing to take a closer look, I mean (first of all) this file: http://www.forth.org/fig86new.zip Have a look at the lines 136 to 139. Another strange thing seem to me code section from line 164 to 186 (including). These l

Re: Why is that (fig-Forth for x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 16 Days 18 Hours ago by: Zbig

Both the Forths where I found that sequence are "hosted Forths" for DOS (ordinary "com" binaries). So rather not this case, it seems. That ORIG means just ORIGIN for address space of fig-Forth system. I understand that much more experience

Re: Why is that (fig-Forth for x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 16 Days 18 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

Wild guess: Interrupt vectors? If you press reset, the CPU jumps to ORIG (or uses ORIG+2 asvector address. And for some other interrupt, the same with ORIG+4/6. - anton

Re: Why is that (fig-Forth for x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 16 Days 19 Hours ago by: Zbig

Well, that's why I've raised my question. No reference to that specific line anywhere, which has no label. I'm confused.

Re: Why is that (fig-Forth for x86)? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 16 Days 19 Hours ago by: Marcel Hendrix

[..] Maybe it was used for debugging or single-stepping? -marcel

Why is that (fig-Forth for x86)?

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 16 Days 19 Hours ago by: Zbig

Re: Building and running gforth-0.2.1 on Debian 11 AMD64 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 16 Days 22 Hours ago by: Brian Fox

That's exactly the kind of thing I was thinking about. Adding compiling control words that are sent to the job via the command line. So I am not totally crazy. OK, maybe a little. I will move along these lines. If I ever give this cross-c

Re: Building and running gforth-0.2.1 on Debian 11 AMD64 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 17 Days 17 Hours ago by: none

I have turnkey manx. You run it with (bitbanging the parallel port) tmanx song.sco If you are on linux machine with no parallel port, I purchased a ser/par board on pci, now that parallel port is on C030. In linux I do now tmanx -p C0

Re: EVALUATE in minimum search order (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 17 Days 20 Hours ago by: S Jack

You inspired me to implement ONLY that works with FIG vocabularies. Readily done: i. Create a vocabulary, VOC0, to be minimal: forth definitions vocabulary voc0 voc0 definitions : fths Forth Definitions ; fths i. Now for th

Re: How to get up/dn/left/right arrows in WIN32FORTH? EKEY doesn't (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 17 Days 23 Hours ago by: Zoltan Spin

================================================================== gnuarm, I had a doubt after reading Jan Coombs, and did exactly the same as you yesterday, with exactly the same (non) result: Win32Forth: a 32 Bit Forth for Windows 95/

Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 18 Days 4 Hours ago by: dxforth

Rather than kicking out the money-lenders, Jesus should have got himself an investment portfolio and realized his dreams :)

Re: How to get up/dn/left/right arrows in WIN32FORTH? EKEY doesn't (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 18 Days 9 Hours ago by: Rick C

Win32Forth: a 32 Bit Forth for Windows 95/98/ME/NT4/W2K/XP/VISTA/W7/W8/W10 Version: 6.15.05 Build: 2 Platform: Windows 10 Home, 8,747k bytes free ekey hex . D ok \ Enter It simply did not respond to any of the arrow keys. It finally

Re: How to get up/dn/left/right arrows in WIN32FORTH? EKEY doesn't (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 18 Days 14 Hours ago by: Jan Coombs

Downloaded version from Howerd's link. Windows7 found where to get 7z de-compressor, but instead. Converted to .zip on host linux machine. Windows unzipped this into downloads folder Ran win32for.exe from there: Win32Forth: ANS Fort

Re: How to get up/dn/left/right arrows in WIN32FORTH? EKEY doesn't (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 18 Days 16 Hours ago by: Zoltan Spin

\ Gforth 0.7.0, Copyright (C) 1995-2008 Free Software Foundation, Inc. ekey . -7FFFFFFE ok \ up ekey . -7FFFFFFD ok \ dn ekey . -80000000 ok \ left ekey . -7FFFFFFF ok \ right \ Win32Forth: a 32 Bit Forth for Wind

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 19 Days 1 Hour ago by: Hans Bezemer

Oh, I will. A lawyer is like a medical doctor. Full disclosure, lawyer-client confidentiality, you know. But I think I'm fine. Hans Bezemer

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 19 Days 1 Hour ago by: Jurgen Pitaske

Well, you better ask your lawyer then as well about your threatening and intimidating behaviour without any reason. There should be quite a few examples in this thread.

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 19 Days 2 Hours ago by: Hans Bezemer

You missed one already: So, if you threaten me (which you've done already) or actively seek out to obtain information with the intent to intimidate, cause or cause serious nuisance to or seriously hinder that other person in the exercise

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 19 Days 3 Hours ago by: Jurgen Pitaske

you have put it all for the world to read https://thebeez.home.xs4all.nl/4tH/thebeez.html and from there: Introducing the Beez' The Beez in his home town Hans Bezemer in his home town, where he finally settled down after an eventful

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 19 Days 3 Hours ago by: Jurgen Pitaske

You have posted it all here, so it is out in the world for everybody to read already. Spreading the original or just linking to it. Free speech does not only apply to you - please dump your shit elsewhere. and for others translated, a q

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 19 Days 3 Hours ago by: Hans Bezemer

Google this: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/actueel/nieuws/2022/02/25/delen-van-persoonsgegevens-met-als-doel-intimidatie-wordt-strafbaar I have no trouble at all pressing charges. HB

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 19 Days 3 Hours ago by: Jurgen Pitaske

HANS BEZEMER and WAYNE MORINELLI F O R T H K I L L E R S A T WO R K Peter F**** has gone quiet fortunately Hugh Aguilar has gone rather quiet fortunately BUT there are new people who seem to step forward in this function and h

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 19 Days 5 Hours ago by: Hans Bezemer

Another empty statement, since it doesn't contain any arguments. At least do you have ripped a wisecrack from some celebrity or historical figure. I give you that. Logic is always rational - that's a tautology. And it can be applied ANYWH

Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 19 Days 14 Hours ago by: Brian Fox

I think there are many forms of obsession that captivate people. Forth programming could be one of them. :-) Making ever larger sums of money is a game for many, with points measured in currency. I had a decade of work in a fortune 500

Re: Some of you might find it interesting (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 19 Days 18 Hours ago by: Zbig

You can google for the title I gave. Then — after landing in Google Books — just select page 64 (or somewhere around page 64).

Re: Building and running gforth-0.2.1 on Debian 11 AMD64 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 19 Days 21 Hours ago by: Brian Fox

No question, in a traditional block based Forth I would do the same. I am in my cross-compiler environment build on a Forth system that uses text files. LOL. So HsForth (1994) heavily modified, makes another Retro Forth. I opted to ma

Re: Building and running gforth-0.2.1 on Debian 11 AMD64 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 19 Days 21 Hours ago by: Brian Fox

Ok, so you have both. That's what I was wondering about. You demonstrate more command line control than I would ever need for the single target I play with. :-) I will take a look at that configuration file.

Re: Building and running gforth-0.2.1 on Debian 11 AMD64 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 19 Days 21 Hours ago by: Brian Fox

OK. So that's is what I have done as well. I used VALUE definitions in the COMPILER vocabulary rather than EQU. I can do that because VALUE is not in the final target Camel Forth at this time. I may re-think that when the time comes.

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 20 Days 1 Hour ago by: Hans Bezemer

On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 5:18:23 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 20 Days 3 Hours ago by: Hans Bezemer

It only shows you're British. Google it ;-) HB

Re: How to get up/dn/left/right arrows in WIN32FORTH? EKEY doesn't (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 20 Days 4 Hours ago by: Jos Ven

In Win32For version 6.15.04 that is possible by creating a window and use then use the WM_KEYDOWN message. That will give you the needed scan code. Jos

Re: Forth on RPi (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 20 Days 5 Hours ago by: Jan Coombs

For rationale see: https://www.fourmilab.ch/atlast/ Jan Coombs

Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 20 Days 7 Hours ago by: dxforth

Certainly not for nothing - but what drives one to become 'one of the richest men' if not insecurity?

Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 20 Days 9 Hours ago by: Wayne morellini

Hard to think that about him. That guy didn't became one of the richest men in the country for nothing.

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 20 Days 9 Hours ago by: Wayne morellini

That's "because" you haven't used sound judgement of thought.. It's "learnt" by the way.

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 20 Days 9 Hours ago by: Wayne morellini

Empty heads think full statements are empty. Yet, you continue to skirt around and away and yet you are not ignorant? Let's see, you wrongly started this, and wrongly kept it going. Misusing rational logic. You are simply wrong becau

Re: Some of you might find it interesting (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 20 Days 10 Hours ago by: Wayne morellini

Giving an unreachable page error. What was it about? Thanks.

Re: How to get up/dn/left/right arrows in WIN32FORTH? EKEY doesn't (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 20 Days 11 Hours ago by: dxforth

No further info on the above however Google brought up this new doc on Win32Forth by Bill Ragsdale: https://github.com/BillRagsdale/WIN32Forth-Guide The 'official' Win32Forth site is here: http://win32forth.sourceforge.net/

Re: gforth floating-stack undefined? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 20 Days 14 Hours ago by: Buzz McCool

$ gforth Gforth 0.7.3, Copyright (C) 1995-2008 Free Software Foundation, Inc. Gforth comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; for details type `license' Type `bye' to exit S" floating-stack" environment? .s <2> 2048 -1 ok Thanks Anton!

Re: Forth on RPi (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 20 Days 15 Hours ago by: meff

Huh is this a native Forth?

Re: gforth floating-stack undefined? (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 20 Days 15 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

S" floating-stack" environment? .s - anton

Forth on RPi

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 20 Days 16 Hours ago by: minf...@arcor.de

https://elinux.org/Forth Nice!

gforth floating-stack undefined?

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 20 Days 19 Hours ago by: Buzz McCool

"... just say that your program has an environmental dependency on a separate floating-point stack. floating-stack – n environment “floating-stack” n is non-zero, showing that Gforth maintains a separate float

Re: Building and running gforth-0.2.1 on Debian 11 AMD64 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 20 Days 21 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

And the `unane -m` is unnecessary. Most Forth systems allow putting Forth code on the OS command line, so you can mix between having some parameters in a configuration file, and some on the OS command line. That being said, gforth usua

Re: Building and running gforth-0.2.1 on Debian 11 AMD64 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 20 Days 23 Hours ago by: Hans Bezemer

Just the usual suspects, like -O3, -fsigned-char (yeah, I know - ported TC2 code), -s, -L., -I., -o, -l4th, -Wall, the occasional -D to force specific behavior. Nothing special or fancy. And no - the user gets to choose his Makefile. Unl

Re: How to get up/dn/left/right arrows in WIN32FORTH? EKEY doesn't (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 21 Days ago by: Howerd Oakford

Hi Zoltan, Which version of Win32Forth are you using? With Win32Forth6v05H : Win32Forth: ANS Forth for Windows 95/98/ME/NT/2K/XP/7/8/10 Version: 6.05 Build: 0100 453K bytes free I get "ekey hex . 20006" when I press the up-arrow key.

Re: Building and running gforth-0.2.1 on Debian 11 AMD64 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 21 Days 3 Hours ago by: Stephen Pelc

Firstly, a cross compiler is a Forth app and its tools are only buried by vocabulary/wordlist selection. Secondly.most cross compilers support EQU, e.g 5 EQU MACHINE-TYPE An equ is a constant that uses no target space and is ideal for

Re: Building and running gforth-0.2.1 on Debian 11 AMD64 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 21 Days 11 Hours ago by: dxforth

Not that I've seen. 'command line and switch' being an OS-related feature may exist or not. Typically what one finds in forth is a 'load block' (however that is implemented) and 'electives' i.e. blocks of code it loads or not. One migh

Re: Building and running gforth-0.2.1 on Debian 11 AMD64 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 21 Days 13 Hours ago by: Brian Fox

That part I am clear on. (at least until I find my next bug) :-) But do you use the O/S command line typically ? Do you use "compiler switches" on the command line? ( Like -R -o2 and the rest) For example my hobby cross-compiler is us

Re: Building and running gforth-0.2.1 on Debian 11 AMD64 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 21 Days 15 Hours ago by: Hans Bezemer

I've cross-compiled 4tH on more platforms than I care to count. In general, it's not difficult. It merely depends on the platform. I have "about" two platforms, Microschoft based and *Nix based. It merely concentrates on things like dir

Re: Building and running gforth-0.2.1 on Debian 11 AMD64 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 21 Days 17 Hours ago by: Brian Fox

This makes me want to ask the group a question. If you have a program that you build with a Forth cross-compiler, how do you provide the user with the type of compiler switches that Anton is demonstrating? I have typically just written

Building and running gforth-0.2.1 on Debian 11 AMD64

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 22 Days 18 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

For some reason I wanted to run gforth-0.2.1 (from 1996). My old binary no longer works (it's an a.out binary), so I had a go at rebuilding it. And I got it to work, and in 64-bit mode, too (AMD64 only appeared in 2003, but we had alread

Ann: 8th 22.03 released

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 23 Days 2 Hours ago by: Ron AARON

The TLS layer has been upgraded, PDF output (Pro+), and various new features and fixes. I stopped using 'tlse' because the author isn't really maintaining it, and changed to 'libressl'. It wasn't a difficult change, but now for the nex

Re: How to get up/dn/left/right arrows in WIN32FORTH? EKEY doesn't (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 23 Days 5 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

.... Ok, I tested a few with the following: 1) : test begin ekey? 0= while repeat ekey . ; test \ press cursor-up 2) : test begin ekey? 0= while repeat ekey ekey>fkey .s ; test \ press cursor-up 3) k-up . Here's what I got: 1)

Re: How to get up/dn/left/right arrows in WIN32FORTH? EKEY doesn't (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 23 Days 7 Hours ago by: dxforth

Not out-of-the-box anyway. A quick browse of the docs brought no joy despite K-UP etc being provided. ISTM systems claiming ANS/200x features should at least dedicate a section in the docs explaining how users can get them up and runnin

Re: How to get up/dn/left/right arrows in WIN32FORTH? EKEY doesn't (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 23 Days 13 Hours ago by: NN

I havent used win32forth in a while so please test as I am not sure which applies : test begin ekey? 0= while repeat ekey . ; type test and press any F-key do you get a number ? if yes that number represents the f-key. or try : :

How to get up/dn/left/right arrows in WIN32FORTH? EKEY doesn't

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 23 Days 19 Hours ago by: Zoltan Spin

Hi! Discovering the just loaded Win32Forth, I found that EKEY doesnt provide anything when arrows are pressed, which is quite an issue when any user interface is needed. What did I miss? If I get this to work, maybe latter I ask about the

Some of you might find it interesting

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 23 Days 20 Hours ago by: Zbig

https://books.google.pl/books?id=ykcPEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA64#v=onepage&q&f=false Not sure is it known to all of you.

Re: EVALUATE in minimum search order (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 23 Days 22 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

Does not help if you can change the search order. FORTH is SEARCH-EXT, just like ONLY. But it does not matter whether you use FORTH, or FORTH-WORDLIST 1 SET-ORDER. It means that ONLY is not a way to prevent an attacker from doing ever

Re: EVALUATE in minimum search order (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 24 Days ago by: Ruvim

[...] [...] You have to use CATCH and restore the search order. : within-order-execute ( i*x xt i*wid u.i -- j*x ) get-order n>r set-order catch nr> set-order throw ; : string-to-numbers ( sd.numbers -- i*x ) ( f: -- j*r

Re: EVALUATE in minimum search order (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 24 Days 3 Hours ago by: none

As long as the prefix " was not ISO anyway I adopted the ALGOL68 convention that you can insert " in a string by doubling it. I was not prepared to invent a string denotation that doesn't allow me to define strings of printable characters

Re: EVALUATE in minimum search order (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 24 Days 19 Hours ago by: Anton Ertl

I assume you mean that you only want to use EVALUATE, but only recognize numbers. It's not clear what's up with the quotes in the example above, but in Gforth you can break out of ONLY with FORTH (ONLY is not SEAL, and even SEAL is not

Re: EVALUATE in minimum search order (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 24 Days 22 Hours ago by: Stephen Pelc

I'm not convinced that ONLY is sufficiently defined for you. "Set the search order to the implementation-defined minimum search order. The minimum search order shall include the words FORTH-WORDLIST and SET-ORDER. " The ANS/Forth200x/F

EVALUATE in minimum search order

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 24 Days 23 Hours ago by: none

I'm doing my taxes and i have to evaluate strings like "4,54" resulting in a number of cents. A do a precaution, I want that numbers are only recognized after ONLY, i.e. in the minimum search order, to prevent executing of arbitrary strings

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 25 Days 16 Hours ago by: Zbig

:D

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 25 Days 17 Hours ago by: Zbig

But this is true: from page 24 onwards until page 184 there are appendices B and C, which are — respectively — assembler and Forth listings. IMHO they could be moved into separate file "ColorForth Internals" or the like. Oh, it's not

Re: Interpretation semantics of EXIT (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 26 Days 1 Hour ago by: Hans Bezemer

I recently reprogrammed the inner Accept() word. I was hesitant to touch it since - although murky - it had worked absolutely fine for three decades. I must have grown a bit in that time, because I found out how it exactly worked. And the

Re: Interpretation semantics of EXIT (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 26 Days 2 Hours ago by: none

Don't stop looking for simplications. I recently managed the central (FIND) word from 6 to 3 labels and eliminate a third of the underlying ~MATCH word. The discotheque principle is useful. Nobody gets in, before somebody gets out. If you

Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 26 Days 7 Hours ago by: dxforth

Given money represents success, it's more likely fortunes are built in order to impress parents - particularly if the latter were also successful. Kerry Packer's media mogul father Frank had described his son as "the family idiot". Rupe

Re: Interpretation semantics of EXIT (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 26 Days 21 Hours ago by: Hans Bezemer

True - in 4tH (with it's wildly different architecture) I see the same thing happening. But due to the radical division between "compilation" and "interpretation", I see it's not happening in the (inner) interpreter. It's happening in th

Re: Interpretation semantics of EXIT (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 26 Days 23 Hours ago by: none

Lately I became fond of AUTOLOAD They CATCH any errors from the interpreting a line. If the error is 12 of 10 (undefined) , the name is WANTED through the library. If it succeeds, compilation goes on as if nothing happens. WANT AUTOLOAD S

Re: Interpretation semantics of EXIT (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 26 Days 23 Hours ago by: Hans Bezemer

I agree. In 4tH, having Forth-79 roots, EXIT is still a very simple word: get TORS, put it in the instruction pointer and continue (Ok, some checks are made - agreed). It's not that much different from a RET instruction in Z80 - and why

Re: rosetta code : Modular arithmetic (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 27 Days ago by: Hans Bezemer

First, thanks for participating in Rosetta Code - I think it's an important platform and I've made several entries myself. The fun part when porting it to 4tH: - 4tH has "1 CONSTANT TRUE" - instead of all bits set. So a bit of fixing was

Re: Interpretation semantics of EXIT (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 27 Days 5 Hours ago by: dxforth

For a while I had an EXIT with a ?COMP. To stop interpretation of a screen I defined: : \\ source >in ! drop ; immediate For text files it was extended to: -? : \\ tf? if begin tfill 0= until end postpone \\ ; immediate

Re: Interpretation semantics of EXIT (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 27 Days 8 Hours ago by: luser droog

I don't know enough about the whole story to weigh in there, just saying that Albert made a compelling point. So compelling that the rest of the story kinda reads as just noise to me. If I can figure out how to use it, my personal forth

Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 27 Days 19 Hours ago by: Wayne morellini

Ok, finally tested positive for covid. A pretty rough ride, but managed to break the fever by afternoon. Using the techniques suggested by real research, if not only aneadotaly (science starts somewhere, and it is false cheery picking to

Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 27 Days 19 Hours ago by: Hans Bezemer

Where? Be specific - how many times do I have to say that "weasel speak" doesn't count? "Cherry picking" again - well, I'm glad I taught you something new. ;-) Note there is a whole bunch of other fallacies you have to learn about. Keep

Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 27 Days 19 Hours ago by: Wayne morellini

Now you cherry pick that both these people do not publish papers. When they are only there to report on other's papers. It's disgraceful. I've said I had enough of your stuff before. There is something seriously wrong with your logic

Re: covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 27 Days 19 Hours ago by: Hans Bezemer

For good reasons: https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/pfizers-confidential-document-shows-adverse-events-reported-following-vaccination-it-doesnt-demonstrate-vaccine-caused-events-or-is-unsafe/ https://www.factcheck.org/2021/12/no-cred

rosetta code : Modular arithmetic

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 27 Days 22 Hours ago by: none

I have add a contribution to http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Modular_arithmetic The problem ask for operators that behave the same as for normal numbers, a task where in Forth shines. Groetjes Albert

covid rants (OT) was: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 27 Days 22 Hours ago by: none

You can take Campbell very seriously. He is one of few who can relied upon. He tries to present serious information about covid and youtube is working against him. If you follow this channel, (and most people don't have the patience to se

Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 27 Days 23 Hours ago by: Hans Bezemer

Well, you gave some nice examples. Dr Been goes only on YouTube (more on that later) and one can find absolutely ZERO information on the guy. He has been associated with a fringe groups like the FLCCC. He doesn't list ANY of the papers in

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 28 Days 2 Hours ago by: Hans Bezemer

Without any supporting arguments, this is an empty statement. But you seem to have a particular liking for posing empty statements. I'll come back to this. Look, if you want to reject the basic principles of philosophy and ontology, be

Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 28 Days 13 Hours ago by: Wayne morellini

(Note: Don't rely on anything I report here, research it and talk to a qualified health professional./ ----- Yeah, it's a reduce severity strategy, but the latest strains are different they have reduced severity severity and are starting

Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 28 Days 17 Hours ago by: Kerr-Mudd, John

[] Wow It took my partner 2 weeks to get over an actual Covid infection (of course she'd already had 3 shots of vaccine, but still she got it).

Re: Jeff Fox's "Anti Ansi Forth"

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 28 Days 19 Hours ago by: Wayne morellini

Thank you guys. I seem to have gotten over 5 weeks lost to the covid jab, but now I have the mental ability well as I used to have when quite sick. I couldn't even read emails at one stage today, and find it hard to hit the right keys a

Re: ANN: colorForth cf2022 (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 28 Days 19 Hours ago by: Wayne morellini

Don't matter how much you mix things, it's not going make you true. There we go, mixing and distorting. Yes, I'm seeing that here, again. Lots of diversion. When you reach a high level, get back to me. The rest is immature uncaring

Re: etherforth - a colorforth for F18 arrays (thread)

comp.lang.forth

Posted: 28 Days 20 Hours ago by: Wayne morellini

@Meff, it shouldn't require so many cores just to do video. @Jurgen.+1

249 recent articles found.

rocksolid light 0.7.2
clearneti2ptor