Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  nodelist  faq  login

An algorithm must be seen to be believed. -- D. E. Knuth


programming / comp.lang.lisp / latest

Re: make-package without :use (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 12 Minutes ago by: Kaz Kylheku

The "use" mechanism creates a window from one package to another; symbols which are exported by the used package are visible in the using package. They are not actually present in the using package; it's only a visibility trick. The only

Re: make-package without :use (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 13 Minutes ago by: Helmut Eller

You could write CL:DEFUN instead of DEFUN. If you are in package BOB and the Lisp system reads DEFUN, then it creates a fresh symbol in the BOB package, i.e., BOB::DEFUN which is different from CL:DEFUN. With the :USE CL argument the sys

make-package without :use

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 2 Hours 48 Minutes ago by: Phil Roc

Good morning, If I run the following code, I get error messaging stating that that defun, format, ... are not declared in package BOB, ... ---------- (make-package :bob) ;;:use '("CL")) (make-package :jane) ;;:use '("CL")) (in-pa

Re: Three ways to make-package (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 7 Hours 6 Minutes ago by: Madhu

Wrote on Mon, 16 May 2022 11:54:43 -0400: I'm not inclined to disagree. However there is scope for complicated defaulting behaviour specified by way of &optional &key &aux - which can be considered part of the function, and evaluation o

Re: Three ways to make-package (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 8 Hours 51 Minutes ago by: Zyni Moë

Yes you are right. Was thinking of normal order as like some explicit force/delay thing but that is wrong: is really fexprs not normal order.

Re: Three ways to make-package (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 11 Hours 37 Minutes ago by: Kaz Kylheku

In normal order it is still true, because it's still the evaluation strategy which supplies the argument evaluation, not the function *per se*; the function only refers to arguments, and somehow obtains the values by doing so.

Re: Three ways to make-package (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 13 Hours 39 Minutes ago by: Zyni Moë

Is important point yes. In either normal order language or language with horrible curse of FEXPRs this would not be true.

Re: Three ways to make-package (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 16 Hours 31 Minutes ago by: Stefan Monnier

I'd insist here that it's actually not the functions that evaluate their arguments, but the general language semantics. By the time the function is involved, the arguments have already been evaluated. Stefan

Re: Three ways to make-package (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 16 Hours 55 Minutes ago by: Kaz Kylheku

Both defpackage and make-package take the package name in the same format, as a "string designator" that can be a string or symbol. Hint: this will work: (let ((bob "bob")) (make-package bob)) defpackage is a macro; make-package

Re: Three ways to make-package (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 19 Hours 31 Minutes ago by: Madhu

Wrote on Mon, 16 May 2022 05:27:51 -0700 (PDT): make-package is a function. functions always evaluate their arguments. in the form (make-package bob) BOB is a symbol, and lisp tries to evaluate it. the symbol BOB probably does not have

Three ways to make-package

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 19 Hours 58 Minutes ago by: Phil Roc

(make-package "bob") (make-package 'bob) (make-package :bob) but not (make-package bob) [although (defpackage bob) works] Why is that? Thanks.

Re: Timeouts in various Lisps (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 12 Days 23 Hours ago by: Zyni Moë

I do not use google but a DDG search for 'bordeaux threads lisp' gives the first hit as the project page, the second one as the documentation, from which will find https://sionescu.github.io/bordeaux-threads/timeouts/with-timeout/. Prob

Re: READ-SEQUENCE and fill pointers (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 13 Days 12 Hours ago by: Spiros Bousbouras

That settles it ; thanks.

Re: Timeouts in various Lisps (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 13 Days 18 Hours ago by: George Neuner

https://quickref.common-lisp.net/bordeaux-threads.html#Exported-macros

Re: Timeouts in various Lisps (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 13 Days 20 Hours ago by: antispam

Do Bordeaux threads provide something like 'sb-ext:with-timeout'? AFAICS what is needed for multithreading is easier to provide than support within single thread which I need. One reason to ask here is that Google provides a lot of hits,

Re: Timeouts in various Lisps (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 14 Days ago by: Zyni Moë

Probably use Bordeaux threads which provides timeout support.

Timeouts in various Lisps

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 14 Days 8 Hours ago by: antispam

I would like to implement a timeout in my program, that is abort computation not done within time limit. Using SBCL I can use 'sb-ext:with-timeout' which despite warning in manual seem to work well. Is there something similar in othe Lisp

Re: READ-SEQUENCE and fill pointers (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 14 Days 13 Hours ago by: Zyni Moë

One consequence of this is this thing ... compiler does fancy calculation about bounds, optimises bounds checks ... (read-sequence ...) ... calculations still valid ...

Re: READ-SEQUENCE and fill pointers (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 14 Days 15 Hours ago by: Tom Russ

It may not say that in so many words, but I would assume it is implied as Zyni notes. In particular, the default END value for READ-SEQUENCE is NIL, which is interpreted as the length of the sequence. And as Zyni mentions, this is the act

Re: READ-SEQUENCE and fill pointers (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 14 Days 16 Hours ago by: Zyni Moë

read-sequence sequence stream &key start end => position [...] position---an integer greater than or equal to zero, and less than or equal to the length of the sequence. And from length (is link in CLHS) length n. (

READ-SEQUENCE and fill pointers

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 14 Days 18 Hours ago by: Spiros Bousbouras

(let ((arr (make-array 20 :fill-pointer 0 :initial-element 1)) (s (make-string-input-stream "abcdefg"))) (read-sequence arr s) (close s) (format t "~a~%" (aref arr 0))) prints 1 .But if I change t

Re: Newsgroups

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 16 Days 18 Hours ago by: Fidget Toys

thanks for tips . My website https://fidget-toys-france.fr/

Re: quote (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 17 Days 11 Hours ago by: Stefan Monnier

Of course, it could have been (quote . <expression>) so that (quote a b c) indeed returns the value (a b c), but then you'd need to write (quote . 42) to return the value 42. Indeed, Stefan

Re: quote (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 17 Days 13 Hours ago by: Kaz Kylheku

Hi Albert. The syntax of quote is actually (quote expression) The extra level of list nesting there comes from the expression being a compound: (quote (list 1 2 3)) -> (list 1 2 3) It doesn't have to be a compound: (quote a) -> a

Re: quote (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 17 Days 20 Hours ago by: none

You implicitly answered the question. There would be no distinction between (quote a) and (quote (a)) and I can see that this is necessary. Groetjes Albert

Re: quote (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 17 Days 21 Hours ago by: Siebe de Vos

What does (quote a) mean in your proposal: 'a or '(a)

quote

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 17 Days 22 Hours ago by: none

What with the superfluous parentheses with quote ? Why (quote (a b c )) in stead of (quote a b c ) ? After all quote is a special function, it decides for itself whether the arguments are evaluated. Groetjes Albert

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 21 Days 7 Hours ago by: Tom Russ

[snipping much] As far as scheduling-related software is concerned, there was the development of a highly performant CL flight search software by ITA, which powered among other things the Orbitz flight search engine. This worked much, muc

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 24 Days 14 Hours ago by: Stéphane CARPENTIER

Didn't you hear about Nyxt? <https://nyxt.atlas.engineer/>

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 25 Days 10 Hours ago by: Paul Rubin

My impression also is that the Lisp Machine debugging environment was way ahead of anything else around, either at the time or today. That also helped speed up development. But, I never really used it myself. The other Lisp debugging e

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 25 Days 13 Hours ago by: Zyni Moë

It was not. It was not even Microsoft Lisp: it was muLisp, badge-engineered by Microsoft. Is hard to know how much for sure, but certainly some of muLisp's DNA lives on ... in calculators.

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 25 Days 17 Hours ago by: Stefan Monnier

I don't think I can give much specifics, but it was basically a rescheduling application for a large company, to adjust a previously computed schedule whenever an "unexpected" event required it. IOW, looking for nearby solutions in a set o

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 25 Days 17 Hours ago by: Spiros Bousbouras

Can you give more information like what the application did or how large the code was or who the users were ?

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 25 Days 18 Hours ago by: Stefan Monnier

I worked on porting an application from TI Explorer II machines (BTW I highly recommend reading https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/48529.48536 which documents the marvel of a GC that this machine used) to IBM Power/AIX machines. Porting was d

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 25 Days 19 Hours ago by: Spiros Bousbouras

[...] [...] I was aware of that but I had another look. Surprisingly to me I have heard of something which isn't on http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/LISP/common_lisp_family : https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.misc/c/bW

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 25 Days 19 Hours ago by: Spiros Bousbouras

[...] The history of Lisp machines only partially overlaps with what I'm asking for in this thread. The "Applications" section of en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_machine only mentions the following specific applications : The main commer

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 25 Days 21 Hours ago by: Zyni Moë

They made Lisp machines in MIT family. Claim (which may be false): only one Common Lisp implementation has died for reasons other than being tied to platforms which have died. The one I know of is Lucid / Liquid which may in fact still

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 25 Days 21 Hours ago by: Zyni Moë

Of course exact same thing is now happening with machine learning / neural networks. Except on far larger scale.

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 26 Days 1 Hour ago by: Paul Rubin

Ah yes, that was when the investors came to their senses and decided to put their money in quantum computers instead ;-).

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 26 Days 2 Hours ago by: Jeff Barnett

T24gNC8yMC8yMDIyIDk6NTMgUE0sIFNwaXJvcyBCb3VzYm91cmFzIHdyb3RlOg0KPiBPbiBU dWUsIDE5IEFwciAyMDIyIDE5OjQyOjAyIC0wMDAwIChVVEMpDQo+IFp5bmkgTW/DqyA8bm9f ZW1haWxAaW52YWxpZC5pbnZhbGlkPiB3cm90ZToNCj4+IFRoaW5rIHRoZXJlIGlzIHRoZSBz dGFuZGFyZCByb21hbnRpY

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 26 Days 4 Hours ago by: Spiros Bousbouras

As I said in my opening post , I haven't kept count but I estimate around 20. Since making my opening post , I remembered that I actually created a file a while ago in which to put every Lisp implementation that I see in "Issues". I have

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 26 Days 19 Hours ago by: Helmut Eller

[...] I'm not sure, but Lisp/SIPE-2[1] may have been used in DART[2]: During the Persian Gulf crisis of 1991, U.S. forces deployed a Dynamic Analysis and Replanning Tool, DART (Cross and Walker, 1994), to do automated logistics pla

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 26 Days 21 Hours ago by: Spiros Bousbouras

So then , after the Lisp machines lost relevance , a lot of that code also lost relevance and porting it to other hardware woudln't even be meaningful. Smiley noted but I wonder , is examining different scenarios (wargames related or wh

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 26 Days 23 Hours ago by: Zyni Moë

Friend of mine also said this. Especially with debugging tools in things like Firefox you can really poke around in them like you could on LispM (I believe: LispMs mostly are before I was born and also were not things that would have be

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 27 Days 4 Hours ago by: Madhu

Wrote on Tue, 19 Apr 2022 14:57:03 -0400: today there is plenty of deficit-funding-out-of-the-wazoo to support the javascript, rust, go developer markets where the developer is the market. each successfully reimplementing the model I firs

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 27 Days 4 Hours ago by: Madhu

Wrote on Tue, 19 Apr 2022 14:58:53 -0400: the endtimes distinction between Empowerment vs Enslavement. The web browser is based on a philosophy of disempowerment, enslavement surveillance and central control. The spirit of lisp as a PL i

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 27 Days 11 Hours ago by: Jeff Barnett

T24gNC8xOS8yMDIyIDE6NDIgUE0sIFp5bmkgTW/DqyB3cm90ZToNCj4gVGhpbmsgdGhlcmUg aXMgdGhlIHN0YW5kYXJkIHJvbWFudGljICdMaXNwIGlzIGRlYWQgLyBkeWluZyAvIHRoZSBn b2xkZW4gYWdlDQo+IGhhcyBwYXNzZWQnIHRoaW5nIGluIGFuc3dlcnMgaGVyZS4gIEhvdyBt YW55IGFjdGl2ZSBMaXNwI

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 27 Days 12 Hours ago by: Zyni Moë

Think there is the standard romantic 'Lisp is dead / dying / the golden age has passed' thing in answers here. How many active Lisp implementations were there in 1984? How many are there now? How much code, really, was written in Lisp be

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 27 Days 13 Hours ago by: Stefan Monnier

FWIW, I think current web-browsers can be considered as the modern-day Lisp machines. They don't use a language with parentheses and they're much more oriented towards powerless users rather than the Lisp machines whose mindset was more b

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 27 Days 13 Hours ago by: paul wallich

I think at this point it's a sort of catch-22 issue. The value is only partly in the code that *does* stuff. So much is in the IDEs (broadly speaking) and the libraries that connect to the rest of the world. And for that, the learning

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 27 Days 13 Hours ago by: Jeff Barnett

You might try searching for history of Lisp machines, especially those built by Symbolics. Lisp entwines two problems - storage size, processor speed, and costs of CPU and I/O devices. Small memories actually can take a bigger byte out

Re: What happened to all the Lisp code ? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 27 Days 14 Hours ago by: Helmut Eller

The Lisp machines were some of the early personal computers, a bit like the Smalltalk machines from Xerox PARC. They had relatively good graphic capabilities and were, for a time, quite fast. Lisp was the system language, on so everyth

What happened to all the Lisp code ?

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 27 Days 20 Hours ago by: Spiros Bousbouras

When I look at the various "Issues" in CLHS , I see several Common Lisp implementations being mentioned. I haven't counted but I estimate around 20. Some of them are commercial. This suggests that a lot of Lisp code was being written at the

Re: tiny editor written in common lisp? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 28 Days 13 Hours ago by: Jeff Barnett

T24gNC8xOC8yMDIyIDM6MTEgQU0sIEppbnNvbmcgWmhhbyB3cm90ZToNCj4gT24gMjAyMi80 LzE4IDM6MTEsIFBlcmkgRGlkYXNrYWxvdSB3cm90ZToNCj4+IE9uIDIwMjItMDQtMTcgNDoz NCBhLm0uLCBKaW5zb25nIFpoYW8gd3JvdGU6DQo+Pj4gSGkgdGhlcmUsDQo+Pj4NCj4+PiBJ cyB0aGVyZSBhbnkgdGlue

Re: tiny editor written in common lisp? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 28 Days 19 Hours ago by: Axel Reichert

A couple of things came to my mind, all only tangentially related to your question: https://github.com/hughbarney https://www.buildyourownlisp.com/ https://web.mit.edu/~yandros/doc/craft-text-editing/index.html So here is the r

Re: tiny editor written in common lisp? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 28 Days 19 Hours ago by: Peri Didaskalou

Hi Jinsong, Oh, OK. Best of luck with GUI frameworks/toolkitss and such, in this regard. Thanks for reminding me about able. As you can see, able's GUI component(s) are TCL/TK based. Second-Climacs uses the open-source version of CLIM

Re: tiny editor written in common lisp? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 28 Days 23 Hours ago by: Jinsong Zhao

Hi Peri, Thanks for pointing me to those editors. I am asking because I'd like to learn how to write a real application using CL. I also don't have such experience in CL and other language. Therefore, a tiny editor, which just does so

Re: tiny editor written in common lisp? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 28 Days 23 Hours ago by: Jinsong Zhao

Thanks for the information. It's great to know so many awesome cl applications. Best, Jinsong

Re: tiny editor written in common lisp? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 29 Days 13 Hours ago by: Peri Didaskalou

Hi Jinsong, By 'tiny' do you mean an editor written in CL, which is like a text editor only, without a built-in REPL, as SLIME and SLY provide within Emacs and Emacs variants? If you're willing to learn and use CMUCL, it has Hemlock,

Re: tiny editor written in common lisp? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 29 Days 13 Hours ago by: Peri Didaskalou

Hi Jinsong, By 'tiny' do you mean an editor written in CL, which is like a text editor only, without a built-in REPL, as SLIME and SLY provide within Emacs and Emacs variants? If you're willing to learn and use CMUCL, it has Hemlock,

Re: tiny editor written in common lisp? (thread)

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 29 Days 14 Hours ago by: Jason McBrayer

Have you looked at the "Awesome Common Lisp Applications" lisp? https://github.com/azzamsa/awesome-cl-software#editors

tiny editor written in common lisp?

comp.lang.lisp

Posted: 29 Days 23 Hours ago by: Jinsong Zhao

Hi there, Is there any tiny editor (the smaller, the better) that is written in Common Lisp? Thanks a lot. Best, Jinsong

62 recent articles found.

rocksolid light 0.7.2
clearneti2ptor