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sport / rec.sport.soccer / (R/T) Brasileiro Round 38 & End of 2022 Brazilian Season

SubjectAuthor
* (R/T) Brasileiro Round 38 & End of 2022 Brazilian SeasonLléo
`* Re: (R/T) Brasileiro Round 38 & End of 2022 Brazilian SeasonMark
 `* Re: (R/T) Brasileiro Round 38 & End of 2022 Brazilian SeasonJesus Petry
  `- Re: (R/T) Brasileiro Round 38 & End of 2022 Brazilian SeasonMark

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(R/T) Brasileiro Round 38 & End of 2022 Brazilian Season

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Subject: (R/T) Brasileiro Round 38 & End of 2022 Brazilian Season
From: llb.mo...@gmail.com (Lléo)
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 by: Lléo - Mon, 14 Nov 2022 02:45 UTC

Today ended the 2022 season in Brasil, with the league's final round. Since
Palmeiras had already won it in advance and relegation was already set too,
the only interest was in the final spots for the international competitions..

Here are the final round's results:

Flamengo 1-2 Avaí

Neither side had anything to play for. Avaí keeps yoyo'ing through Series A
and B, since 2014 it's been B-A-B-A-B-A-B-B-A. The last time they managed to
avoid the drop in Serie A was in 2010. Flamengo, with two cups won in the
end of the season, was in festive mood.

América Mineiro 1-1 Atlético Goianiense

Two frustrated sides. Had América won this one they'd qualify to the Libertadores
preliminary round. Atlético Goianiense had faint hopes to avoid the drop, though
due to other results they'd go down even if they won anyway.

RB Bragantino 0-1 Fluminense

A single goal by Germán Cano, league top goalscorer with 26 goals, was enough
to separate both sides. Fluminense had nothing to play for, RB Bragantino could
have missed the last Sudamericana spot had other results not gone their way..

Corinthians 0-1 Atlético Mineiro

Atlético did their part, but were eventually outranked by their Paranaense
cousins and will have to do with the Libertadores preliminary round. Corinthians
had nothing to play for.

Santos 0-2 Fortaleza

Fortaleza had been last for a while and looked set to drop to Serie B, but
40 points in the second half of the season pushed them up high enough for
the pre-Libertadores round. At the end of the game the players watched the
final moments of América Mineiro vs Atlético Goianiense, which ended in a
draw that suited them. Santos fans ended up protesting against their board
for a season that was way below what than they hoped for.

Internacional 3-0 Palmeiras

Meaningless friendly for both sides. Inter clinched 2nd place and broke Palmeiras'
22-game unbeaten streak as visitor.

Ceará 4-1 Juventude

A duel between relegated teams played behind closed doors, due to incidents
in the Ceará-Cuiabá game a couple of rounds ago.

Goiás 0-4 São Paulo

Solid win by São Paulo running for a Libertadores spot, against a Goiás that
had nothing to play for. But eventually Fortaleza pipped them out, and they'll
have to do with Copa Sudamericana again.

Cuiabá 2-1 Coritiba

Cuiabá survives again, relegates Atlético Goianiense and keeps Coritiba from
qualifying to Copa Sudamericana.

Athletico Paranaense 3-0 Botafogo

This was the last game of Luiz Felipe Scolari's career as coach, and in his
farewell he got his team qualified to the Libertadores 2023 group stage, denying
Botafogo a spot in the tournament. Scolari will become Athletico's technical
director.

Serie A Final Table:
[games, wins, draws, losses, goals scored-goals conceded, points]

1 Palmeiras 38 23 12 3 66-27 39+ 81 Champions, Copa Libertadores group stage
2 Internacional 38 20 13 5 58-31 27+ 73 Copa Libertadores group stage
3 Fluminense 38 21 7 10 63-41 22+ 70 Copa Libertadores group stage
4 Corinthians 38 18 11 9 44-36 8+ 65 Copa Libertadores group stage
5 Flamengo 38 18 8 12 60-39 21+ 62 Cup winners, Copa Libertadores group stage (Copa Libertadores'22 winners)
6 Ath. Paranaense 38 16 10 12 48-48 0 58 Copa Libertadores group stage
----------------------------------------
7 Atlético Mineiro 38 15 13 10 45-37 8+ 58 Copa Libertadores preliminary round
8 Fortaleza 38 15 10 13 46-39 7+ 55 Copa Libertadores preliminary round
----------------------------------------
9 São Paulo 38 13 15 10 55-42 13+ 54 Copa Sudamericana
10 América Mineiro 38 15 8 15 40-40 0 53 Copa Sudamericana
11 Botafogo 38 15 8 15 41-43 2- 53 Copa Sudamericana
12 Santos 38 12 11 15 44-41 3+ 47 Copa Sudamericana
13 Goiás 38 11 13 14 40-53 13- 46 Copa Sudamericana
14 RB Bragantino 38 11 11 16 49-59 10- 44 Copa Sudamericana
----------------------------------------
15 Coritiba 38 12 6 20 39-60 21- 42
16 Cuiabá 38 10 11 17 31-42 11- 41
----------------------------------------
17 Ceará 38 7 16 15 34-41 7- 37 Relegated to Serie B
18 Atl. Goianiense 38 8 12 18 39-57 18- 36 Relegated to Serie B
19 Avaí 38 9 8 21 34-60 26- 35 Relegated to Serie B
20 Juventude 38 3 13 22 29-69 40- 22 Relegated to Serie B

The four big teams came up from Serie B. Cruzeiro dominated the tournament,
clinching promotion in Round 31 and the title in Round 32. Gremio, Vasco and
Bahia suffered more. Though they generally hanged around the top 4 spots in
almost every round, Gremio pulled it in Round 36, while Vasco and Bahia had
to do it in away matches in the last round.

Serie B Final Table:
[games, wins, draws, losses, goals scored-goals conceded, points]

1 Cruzeiro 38 23 9 6 57-26 31+ 78 Promoted to Serie A
2 Grêmio 38 17 14 7 50-26 24- 65 Promoted to Serie A
3 Vasco da Gama 38 17 11 10 48-36 12+ 64 Promoted to Serie A
4 Bahia 38 17 11 10 43-29 14+ 62 Promoted to Serie A
----------------------------------------
5 Sampaio Corrêa 38 16 10 12 48-42 6+ 58
6 Ituano 38 15 12 11 42-34 8+ 57
7 Sport 38 15 12 11 37-31 6+ 56
8 Criciúma 38 14 14 10 43-31 12+ 56
9 Londrina 38 14 11 13 36-37 1- 53
10 Guarani 38 13 12 13 33-36 3- 51
11 CRB 38 13 11 14 35-43 8- 50
12 Ponte Preta 38 12 13 13 34-36 2- 49
13 Vila Nova 38 9 20 9 28-31 3- 47
14 Chapecoense 38 11 12 15 37-39 2- 45
15 Tombense 38 10 15 13 38-47 9- 45
16 Novorizontino 38 11 11 16 44-49 5- 44
----------------------------------------
17 CSA 38 9 15 14 29-37 8- 42 Relegated to Serie C
18 Brusque 38 8 10 20 21-38 17- 34 Relegated to Serie C
19 Operário 38 7 13 18 31-53 22- 34 Relegated to Serie C
20 Náutico 38 8 6 24 32-65 33- 30 Relegated to Serie C

From the lower divisions, Vitória are back from Serie C, and both clubs from
Natal (ABC and América) also earned promotions.

Divisional movements:

A to B: Ceará, Atlético-GO, Avaí, Juventude

B to A: Cruzeiro, Grêmio, Vasco da Gama, Bahia
B to C: CSA, Brusque, Operário, Náutico

C to B: Mirassol, ABC, Botafogo-SP, Vitória
C to D: Atlético-CE, Brasil de Pelotas, Ferroviário, Campinense

D to C: América-RN, Pouso Alegre, São Bernardo, Amazonas

Geographical spread:

The four divisions will have 124 teams in 2023 (20 in Series A, B and C, and
64 in Serie D). 123 of these teams are already known. The remaining spot in
Serie D is awaiting the winner of the Maranhão State Cup (no idea when that
will happen).

The 123 teams known so far come from 91 different cities, towns and villages
spread over every state in Brasil, with a total estimated population of 64,4
million people, from tiny little Tombos, on the border of Rio de Janeiro and
Minas Gerais states (population about 8,000) to São Paulo (12 million, and
that's not counting the metropolitan area).

Serie A will have teams from 10 cities (total est. pop. 33.4 million) from 9
states. Serie B's teams come from 17 cities (total est. pop. 14.9 million)
from 12 states. Serie C teams also come from 17 cities (total est. pop. 15.5
million), from 16 different states, while Serie D will have teams from 61
different cities (total est. pop. 29.5 million) from every state in Brasil.

Cities with most teams represented, with 5 each, will be Rio de Janeiro (the
big 4 in Serie A plus Portuguesa, in Serie D) and Fortaleza (Fortaleza in Serie
A, Ceará in Serie B, Floresta in Serie C, Atlético Cearense and Ferroviário
in Serie D).

Palmarés:

Adjusting the numbers to count Palmeiras' league and Flamengo's cup titles,
here is what the distribution of national titles now looks like, adopting
CBF's criteria:

"leagues" = Campeonato Brasileiro (1971-2020) + Taça Brasil (1959-1968) + Torneio RGP (1967-1970)
"cups" = Copa do Brasil (1989-2020)

1 Palmeiras 15 (11 leagues, 4 cups)
2 Flamengo 11 (7 leagues, 4 cups)
3 Corinthians 10 (7 leagues, 3 cups)
Cruzeiro 10 (4 leagues, 6 cups)
5 Santos 9 (8 leagues, 1 cup)
6 Grêmio 7 (2 leagues, 5 cups)
7 São Paulo 6 (6 leagues)
8 Fluminense 5 (4 leagues, 1 cup)
Vasco da Gama 5 (4 leagues, 1 cup)
10 Internacional 4 (3 leagues, 1 cup)
Atlético Mineiro 4 (2 leagues, 2 cups)
12 Bahia 2 (2 leagues)
Botafogo 2 (2 leagues)
Sport Recife 2 (1 league, 1 cup)
Ath. Paranaense 2 (1 league, 1 cup)
16 Coritiba 1 (1 league)
Guarani 1 (1 league)
Criciúma 1 (1 cup)
Juventude 1 (1 cup)
Paulista 1 (1 cup)
Santo André 1 (1 cup)

Distribution by city:

1 São Paulo 31 (3 clubs, 24 leagues, 7 cups)
2 Rio de Janeiro 23 (4 clubs, 17 leagues, 6 cups)
3 Belo Horizonte 14 (2 clubs, 6 leagues, 8 cups)
4 Porto Alegre 11 (2 clubs, 5 leagues, 6 cups)
5 Santos 9 (1 club, 8 leagues, 1 cup)
6 Curitiba 3 (2 clubs, 2 leagues, 1 cup)
7 Salvador 2 (1 club, 2 leagues)
7 Recife 2 (1 club, 1 league, 1 cup)
9 Campinas 1 (1 club, 1 league)
9 Santo André 1 (1 club, 1 cup)
9 Jundiaí 1 (1 club, 1 cup)
9 Caxias do Sul 1 (1 club, 1 cup)
9 Criciúma 1 (1 club, 1 cup)

Distribution by state:

1 São Paulo 43 (7 clubs, 33 leagues, 10 cups)
2 Rio de Janeiro 23 (4 clubs, 17 leagues, 6 cups)
3 Minas Gerais 14 (2 clubs, 6 leagues, 8 cups)
3 Rio Grande do Sul 12 (3 clubs, 5 leagues, 7 cups)
5 Paraná 3 (2 clubs, 2 leagues, 1 cup)
6 Bahia 2 (1 club, 2 leagues)
6 Pernambuco 2 (1 club, 1 league, 1 cup)
8 Santa Catarina 1 (1 club, 1 cup)


Click here to read the complete article
Re: (R/T) Brasileiro Round 38 & End of 2022 Brazilian Season

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Subject: Re: (R/T) Brasileiro Round 38 & End of 2022 Brazilian Season
From: Pammiesh...@yahoo.co.uk (Mark)
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 by: Mark - Wed, 16 Nov 2022 11:36 UTC

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 2:45:03 AM UTC, Lléo wrote:

> Corinthians 0-1 Atlético Mineiro
>
> Atlético did their part, but were eventually outranked by their Paranaense
> cousins and will have to do with the Libertadores preliminary round. Corinthians
> had nothing to play for.

Is there any connection between Atlético Mineiro and Athletico Paranaense, or is the similarity in the names just a coincidence?
>
> Santos 0-2 Fortaleza
>
> Fortaleza had been last for a while and looked set to drop to Serie B, but
> 40 points in the second half of the season pushed them up high enough for
> the pre-Libertadores round. At the end of the game the players watched the
> final moments of América Mineiro vs Atlético Goianiense, which ended in a
> draw that suited them. Santos fans ended up protesting against their board
> for a season that was way below what than they hoped for.

Fortaleza's recovery from looking as doomed to relegation as Juventude did to qualifying for the Copa Libertadores was quite impressive!
>
> Internacional 3-0 Palmeiras
>
> Meaningless friendly for both sides. Inter clinched 2nd place and broke Palmeiras'
> 22-game unbeaten streak as visitor.

Surely finishing runners-up in the Brazilian Championship isn't meaningless? Internacional still had that to play for.
>
> Ceará 4-1 Juventude
>
> A duel between relegated teams played behind closed doors, due to incidents
> in the Ceará-Cuiabá game a couple of rounds ago.
>
So Independiente got knocked out of the Copa Sudamericana by a team that got relegated from the Brazilian Serie A. :-(

> Divisional movements:

> B to C: CSA, Brusque, Operário, Náutico

Yes I remember Nautico being a bit of a liability for MH and I in Brasileirao Maluco. They don't seem to be a very good team.

> Palmarés:
>
> Adjusting the numbers to count Palmeiras' league and Flamengo's cup titles,
> here is what the distribution of national titles now looks like, adopting
> CBF's criteria:
>
> "leagues" = Campeonato Brasileiro (1971-2020) + Taça Brasil (1959-1968) + Torneio RGP (1967-1970)
> "cups" = Copa do Brasil (1989-2020)
>
> 1 Palmeiras 15 (11 leagues, 4 cups)
> 2 Flamengo 11 (7 leagues, 4 cups)
> 3 Corinthians 10 (7 leagues, 3 cups)
> Cruzeiro 10 (4 leagues, 6 cups)
> 5 Santos 9 (8 leagues, 1 cup)
> 6 Grêmio 7 (2 leagues, 5 cups)
> 7 São Paulo 6 (6 leagues)
> 8 Fluminense 5 (4 leagues, 1 cup)
> Vasco da Gama 5 (4 leagues, 1 cup)
> 10 Internacional 4 (3 leagues, 1 cup)
> Atlético Mineiro 4 (2 leagues, 2 cups)
> 12 Bahia 2 (2 leagues)
> Botafogo 2 (2 leagues)
> Sport Recife 2 (1 league, 1 cup)
> Ath. Paranaense 2 (1 league, 1 cup)
> 16 Coritiba 1 (1 league)
> Guarani 1 (1 league)
> Criciúma 1 (1 cup)
> Juventude 1 (1 cup)
> Paulista 1 (1 cup)
> Santo André 1 (1 cup)

The League counts for more than the Cup doesn't it? It would be better if you listed the number of League Championships and Cups separately.

Re: (R/T) Brasileiro Round 38 & End of 2022 Brazilian Season

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Subject: Re: (R/T) Brasileiro Round 38 & End of 2022 Brazilian Season
From: jesus.pe...@gmail.com (Jesus Petry)
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 by: Jesus Petry - Wed, 16 Nov 2022 13:25 UTC

Em quarta-feira, 16 de novembro de 2022 às 08:36:17 UTC-3, Mark escreveu:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 2:45:03 AM UTC, Lléo wrote:
>
> > Corinthians 0-1 Atlético Mineiro
> >
> > Atlético did their part, but were eventually outranked by their Paranaense
> > cousins and will have to do with the Libertadores preliminary round. Corinthians
> > had nothing to play for.
> Is there any connection between Atlético Mineiro and Athletico Paranaense, or is the similarity in the names just a coincidence?

Atlético just means athletic, Athletico is just an old orthography form. There are many clubs in Brazil named this way: Clube Atlético Something.

> > Internacional 3-0 Palmeiras
> >
> > Meaningless friendly for both sides. Inter clinched 2nd place and broke Palmeiras'
> > 22-game unbeaten streak as visitor.
> Surely finishing runners-up in the Brazilian Championship isn't meaningless? Internacional still had that to play for.

Yes, there was important prize money difference to 2nd place.

> > Palmarés:
> >
> > Adjusting the numbers to count Palmeiras' league and Flamengo's cup titles,
> > here is what the distribution of national titles now looks like, adopting
> > CBF's criteria:
> >
> > "leagues" = Campeonato Brasileiro (1971-2020) + Taça Brasil (1959-1968) + Torneio RGP (1967-1970)
> > "cups" = Copa do Brasil (1989-2020)
> >
> > 1 Palmeiras 15 (11 leagues, 4 cups)
> > 2 Flamengo 11 (7 leagues, 4 cups)
> > 3 Corinthians 10 (7 leagues, 3 cups)
> > Cruzeiro 10 (4 leagues, 6 cups)
> > 5 Santos 9 (8 leagues, 1 cup)
> > 6 Grêmio 7 (2 leagues, 5 cups)
> > 7 São Paulo 6 (6 leagues)
> > 8 Fluminense 5 (4 leagues, 1 cup)
> > Vasco da Gama 5 (4 leagues, 1 cup)
> > 10 Internacional 4 (3 leagues, 1 cup)
> > Atlético Mineiro 4 (2 leagues, 2 cups)
> > 12 Bahia 2 (2 leagues)
> > Botafogo 2 (2 leagues)
> > Sport Recife 2 (1 league, 1 cup)
> > Ath. Paranaense 2 (1 league, 1 cup)
> > 16 Coritiba 1 (1 league)
> > Guarani 1 (1 league)
> > Criciúma 1 (1 cup)
> > Juventude 1 (1 cup)
> > Paulista 1 (1 cup)
> > Santo André 1 (1 cup)
> The League counts for more than the Cup doesn't it? It would be better if you listed the number of League Championships and Cups separately.

I'm fully with you on this. But there's one more problem: CBF counts the old Taça Brasil, an obvious cup competition, as if it were a league title.

Tchau!
Jesus Petry

Re: (R/T) Brasileiro Round 38 & End of 2022 Brazilian Season

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Subject: Re: (R/T) Brasileiro Round 38 & End of 2022 Brazilian Season
From: Pammiesh...@yahoo.co.uk (Mark)
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 by: Mark - Thu, 17 Nov 2022 10:05 UTC

On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 1:25:13 PM UTC, jesus...@gmail.com wrote:
> Em quarta-feira, 16 de novembro de 2022 às 08:36:17 UTC-3, Mark escreveu:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 2:45:03 AM UTC, Lléo wrote:
> >

> > > Internacional 3-0 Palmeiras
> > >
> > > Meaningless friendly for both sides. Inter clinched 2nd place and broke Palmeiras'
> > > 22-game unbeaten streak as visitor.
> > Surely finishing runners-up in the Brazilian Championship isn't meaningless? Internacional still had that to play for.
> Yes, there was important prize money difference to 2nd place.

And honour, and a measure of successfullness, and things surely?

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