$1.8M!

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.red-bull-estimate-damage-to-verstappens-car-from-hamilton-collision-will.4KgQmjryYnBWvTbLQu5IYc.html

On 25/07/2021 3:44 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> $1.8M!
>
> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.red-bull-estimate-damage-to-verstappens-car-from-hamilton-collision-will.4KgQmjryYnBWvTbLQu5IYc.html

Horner: "Max won’t dwell on anything from Silverstone and wants to do his talking on-track."

Max has been 'doing his talking on track' all year and three times Lewis bailed out of an up-coming
accident because of it. The moment the roles are reversed (but this time Max doesn't back out like
Lewis has been) we see exactly how much of a 'clean racer' Max is. What was it called? The
Schumacher chop?

Previously Charles changed his racing style to fit 'the Verstappen rule', pushing cars wide and off
the track. It seems that's ok as long as it's not Max getting pushed.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

On 25/07/2021 2:59 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:
> On 25/07/2021 3:44 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> $1.8M!
>>
>> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.red-bull-estimate-damage-to-verstappens-car-from-hamilton-collision-will.4KgQmjryYnBWvTbLQu5IYc.html
>
>
> Horner: "Max won’t dwell on anything from Silverstone and wants to do
> his talking on-track."
>
> Max has been 'doing his talking on track' all year and three times Lewis
> bailed out of an up-coming accident because of it. The moment the roles
> are reversed (but this time Max doesn't back out like Lewis has been) we
> see exactly how much of a 'clean racer' Max is. What was it called? The
> Schumacher chop?
>
> Previously Charles changed his racing style to fit 'the Verstappen
> rule', pushing cars wide and off the track. It seems that's ok as long
> as it's not Max getting pushed.

I think that it was pretty inevitable at some point. Two major egos
clashing, Max sees the championship as his, Lewis sees the championship
in danger for the first time. If Max is reverting to he "Mad Max" model
and Lewis is stepping out over the line in response, this may not be the
last incident.

On 25/07/2021 9:24 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 25/07/2021 2:59 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:
>> On 25/07/2021 3:44 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> $1.8M!
>>>
>>> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.red-bull-estimate-damage-to-verstappens-car-from-hamilton-collision-will.4KgQmjryYnBWvTbLQu5IYc.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Horner: "Max won’t dwell on anything from Silverstone and wants to do his talking on-track."
>>
>> Max has been 'doing his talking on track' all year and three times Lewis bailed out of an
>> up-coming accident because of it. The moment the roles are reversed (but this time Max doesn't
>> back out like Lewis has been) we see exactly how much of a 'clean racer' Max is. What was it
>> called? The Schumacher chop?
>>
>> Previously Charles changed his racing style to fit 'the Verstappen rule', pushing cars wide and
>> off the track. It seems that's ok as long as it's not Max getting pushed.
>
> I think that it was pretty inevitable at some point. Two major egos clashing, Max sees the
> championship as his, Lewis sees the championship in danger for the first time. If Max is reverting
> to he "Mad Max" model and Lewis is stepping out over the line in response, this may not be the last
> incident.

I don't think it will be the last incident at all - unless either Red Bull or Mercedes make a major
step forward with their car.

This is how I see it: Of late Lewis has always been respectful of other drivers and raced more than
fairly, he could afford to be that way as he had the best car and was the best driver. This is a
large part of the reason we haven't seen 'Mad Max' for a while, he's had no reason to throw hissy
fits. If he and Lewis were going for the same part of the track, often Lewis would let him have it
and rely on getting ahead later.

However this season (IMO) the Red Bull is slightly the better car and Lewis is slightly the better
driver meaning they're close to equally matched. What was deciding the championship so far was how
the drivers behaved on track. Lewis can no longer afford to be above getting his elbows out - so
he'll do just that and things might get spicy.

Unfortunately, as Lewis is the 'elder statesman', when there's a contentious racing incident the
stewards will likely come down on the side of Max. Consciously or otherwise they'll think that
Lewis should 'know better'. Sometimes it sucks to be the king...

Cheers,
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

Bill should be sent to Hamilton.

On 2021-07-24 9:59 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
> On 25/07/2021 3:44 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> $1.8M!
>>
>> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.red-bull-estimate-damage-to-verstappens-car-from-hamilton-collision-will.4KgQmjryYnBWvTbLQu5IYc.html
>
>
> Horner: "Max won’t dwell on anything from Silverstone and wants to do
> his talking on-track."
>
> Max has been 'doing his talking on track' all year and three times Lewis
> bailed out of an up-coming accident because of it. The moment the roles
> are reversed (but this time Max doesn't back out like Lewis has been) we
> see exactly how much of a 'clean racer' Max is. What was it called? The
> Schumacher chop?

The roles weren't reversed.

Verstappen left Hamilton room.

If you watch Verstappen's in-car camera, up until the moment of contact,
it is quite clear that his trajectory is going to miss the apex by just
enough room for Hamilton to be there.

It wasn't a chop. It was a quicker turn-in, because it was later than
the normal turn-in point for the corner. He tried to turn in, realized
Hamilton was alongside, opened the wheel...

....and then the rapidly arriving corner demands that he turn-in and more
quickly than he normally would.

On 26/07/2021 6:52 am, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-07-24 9:59 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
>> On 25/07/2021 3:44 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> $1.8M!
>>>
>>> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.red-bull-estimate-damage-to-verstappens-car-from-hamilton-collision-will.4KgQmjryYnBWvTbLQu5IYc.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Horner: "Max won’t dwell on anything from Silverstone and wants to do
>> his talking on-track."
>>
>> Max has been 'doing his talking on track' all year and three times
>> Lewis bailed out of an up-coming accident because of it. The moment
>> the roles are reversed (but this time Max doesn't back out like Lewis
>> has been) we see exactly how much of a 'clean racer' Max is. What was
>> it called? The Schumacher chop?
>
> The roles weren't reversed.
>
> Verstappen left Hamilton room.
>
> If you watch Verstappen's in-car camera, up until the moment of contact,
> it is quite clear that his trajectory is going to miss the apex by just
> enough room for Hamilton to be there.
>
> It wasn't a chop. It was a quicker turn-in, because it was later than
> the normal turn-in point for the corner. He tried to turn in, realized
> Hamilton was alongside, opened the wheel...
>
> ...and then the rapidly arriving corner demands that he turn-in and more
> quickly than he normally would.

No. It was a "I'm going for the apex whether of not there is another car
there, and to hell with the consequences because I am a petulant and
self-entitled plick".

geoff

On 26/07/2021 4:39 am, XYXPDQ wrote:
> Bill should be sent to Hamilton.
>

William who ?

geoff

On 2021-07-25 3:22 p.m., geoff wrote:
> On 26/07/2021 6:52 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-07-24 9:59 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
>>> On 25/07/2021 3:44 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>> $1.8M!
>>>>
>>>> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.red-bull-estimate-damage-to-verstappens-car-from-hamilton-collision-will.4KgQmjryYnBWvTbLQu5IYc.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Horner: "Max won’t dwell on anything from Silverstone and wants to do
>>> his talking on-track."
>>>
>>> Max has been 'doing his talking on track' all year and three times
>>> Lewis bailed out of an up-coming accident because of it. The moment
>>> the roles are reversed (but this time Max doesn't back out like Lewis
>>> has been) we see exactly how much of a 'clean racer' Max is. What was
>>> it called? The Schumacher chop?
>>
>> The roles weren't reversed.
>>
>> Verstappen left Hamilton room.
>>
>> If you watch Verstappen's in-car camera, up until the moment of
>> contact, it is quite clear that his trajectory is going to miss the
>> apex by just enough room for Hamilton to be there.
>>
>> It wasn't a chop. It was a quicker turn-in, because it was later than
>> the normal turn-in point for the corner. He tried to turn in, realized
>> Hamilton was alongside, opened the wheel...
>>
>> ...and then the rapidly arriving corner demands that he turn-in and
>> more quickly than he normally would.
>
> No. It was a "I'm going for the apex whether of not there is another car
> there, and to hell with the consequences because I am a petulant and
> self-entitled plick".

Nope.

Because if you look at his in-car camera, it's clear that Verstappn was
going WIDE of the apex.

On 26/07/2021 1:07 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-07-25 3:22 p.m., geoff wrote:
>> On 26/07/2021 6:52 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>>> On 2021-07-24 9:59 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
>>>> On 25/07/2021 3:44 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> $1.8M!
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.red-bull-estimate-damage-to-verstappens-car-from-hamilton-collision-will.4KgQmjryYnBWvTbLQu5IYc.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Horner: "Max won’t dwell on anything from Silverstone and wants to
>>>> do his talking on-track."
>>>>
>>>> Max has been 'doing his talking on track' all year and three times
>>>> Lewis bailed out of an up-coming accident because of it. The moment
>>>> the roles are reversed (but this time Max doesn't back out like
>>>> Lewis has been) we see exactly how much of a 'clean racer' Max is.
>>>> What was it called? The Schumacher chop?
>>>
>>> The roles weren't reversed.
>>>
>>> Verstappen left Hamilton room.
>>>
>>> If you watch Verstappen's in-car camera, up until the moment of
>>> contact, it is quite clear that his trajectory is going to miss the
>>> apex by just enough room for Hamilton to be there.
>>>
>>> It wasn't a chop. It was a quicker turn-in, because it was later than
>>> the normal turn-in point for the corner. He tried to turn in,
>>> realized Hamilton was alongside, opened the wheel...
>>>
>>> ...and then the rapidly arriving corner demands that he turn-in and
>>> more quickly than he normally would.
>>
>> No. It was a "I'm going for the apex whether of not there is another
>> car there, and to hell with the consequences because I am a petulant
>> and self-entitled plick".
>
> Nope.
>
> Because if you look at his in-car camera, it's clear that Verstappn was
> going WIDE of the apex.

With THAT angle of his steering-wheel to the right ? Yeah right .

geoff

On 2021-07-25 9:40 p.m., geoff wrote:
> On 26/07/2021 1:07 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-07-25 3:22 p.m., geoff wrote:
>>> On 26/07/2021 6:52 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2021-07-24 9:59 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
>>>>> On 25/07/2021 3:44 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>> $1.8M!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.red-bull-estimate-damage-to-verstappens-car-from-hamilton-collision-will.4KgQmjryYnBWvTbLQu5IYc.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Horner: "Max won’t dwell on anything from Silverstone and wants to
>>>>> do his talking on-track."
>>>>>
>>>>> Max has been 'doing his talking on track' all year and three times
>>>>> Lewis bailed out of an up-coming accident because of it. The moment
>>>>> the roles are reversed (but this time Max doesn't back out like
>>>>> Lewis has been) we see exactly how much of a 'clean racer' Max is.
>>>>> What was it called? The Schumacher chop?
>>>>
>>>> The roles weren't reversed.
>>>>
>>>> Verstappen left Hamilton room.
>>>>
>>>> If you watch Verstappen's in-car camera, up until the moment of
>>>> contact, it is quite clear that his trajectory is going to miss the
>>>> apex by just enough room for Hamilton to be there.
>>>>
>>>> It wasn't a chop. It was a quicker turn-in, because it was later
>>>> than the normal turn-in point for the corner. He tried to turn in,
>>>> realized Hamilton was alongside, opened the wheel...
>>>>
>>>> ...and then the rapidly arriving corner demands that he turn-in and
>>>> more quickly than he normally would.
>>>
>>> No. It was a "I'm going for the apex whether of not there is another
>>> car there, and to hell with the consequences because I am a petulant
>>> and self-entitled plick".
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>> Because if you look at his in-car camera, it's clear that Verstappn
>> was going WIDE of the apex.
>
> With THAT angle of his steering-wheel to the right ? Yeah right .
>
> geoff

Dude... ...you're just showing you have no clue.

Here is Hamilton's P1 (not Pole!) lap from the sprint qualifying.

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_2aJhmpInY>

Watch from about 57 seconds.

You'll see that he turns the wheel about 60 degrees when taking the
ideal/largest radius line through Copse.

Now watch Verstappen's onboard video:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9RCN4g54Gw>

Start at about 25 seconds, and you can see that Verstappen's wheel
movements just easing to the right and then back to the left take quite
a bit of wheel movement, so the fact that he turns his wheel about 75
degrees to the right comes as no surprise.

It is also completely obvious to anyone who's done any racing that his
car is NOT going to the apex. It's not even close.

On 7/25/21 11:24 AM, keithr0 wrote:
> On 25/07/2021 2:59 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:
>> On 25/07/2021 3:44 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> $1.8M!
>>>
>>> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.red-bull-estimate-damage-to-verstappens-car-from-hamilton-collision-will.4KgQmjryYnBWvTbLQu5IYc.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Horner: "Max won’t dwell on anything from Silverstone and wants to do
>> his talking on-track."
>>
>> Max has been 'doing his talking on track' all year and three times
>> Lewis bailed out of an up-coming accident because of it. The moment
>> the roles are reversed (but this time Max doesn't back out like Lewis
>> has been) we see exactly how much of a 'clean racer' Max is. What was
>> it called? The Schumacher chop?
>>
>> Previously Charles changed his racing style to fit 'the Verstappen
>> rule', pushing cars wide and off the track. It seems that's ok as long
>> as it's not Max getting pushed.
>
> I think that it was pretty inevitable at some point. Two major egos
> clashing, Max sees the championship as his, Lewis sees the championship
> in danger for the first time. If Max is reverting to he "Mad Max" model
> and Lewis is stepping out over the line in response, this may not be the
> last incident.

Well said Sir.
As Niki Lauda once said, drivers are self centered assholes and that
most certainly
applies to Max and Ham. Neither of them have any problem taken another
out, even, or especially their own team mate and even if they risk taken
themselves out in the process.
-someone remember Ricciardo’s comments something like - was that who I
think it was?-
or – sore loser –?
Ham’s “understeer” trick and blaming the other could be observed quite a
few times before.
I think they both made a name for themselves and it works! Ham already
said, I give Max more
space then other drivers, ( he knows like no other how it works ) so
there you have it.
Both teams are pretty much always protecting them, I remember RB with :
-both drivers where to equally blame- where IMO it clearly was caused by
Max. Same at Merc, seldom or never Ham was criticized or penalized where
IMO he should.

Edmund

--
“The further a society drift from the truth,
the more it will hate those who speak it”

George Orwell

On 7/25/2021 12:59 AM, ~misfit~ wrote:
> On 25/07/2021 3:44 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> $1.8M!
>>
>> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.red-bull-estimate-damage-to-verstappens-car-from-hamilton-collision-will.4KgQmjryYnBWvTbLQu5IYc.html
>
>
> Horner: "Max won’t dwell on anything from Silverstone and wants to do
> his talking on-track."
>
> Max has been 'doing his talking on track' all year and three times Lewis
> bailed out of an up-coming accident because of it. The moment the roles
> are reversed (but this time Max doesn't back out like Lewis has been) we
> see exactly how much of a 'clean racer' Max is. What was it called? The
> Schumacher chop?
>
> Previously Charles changed his racing style to fit 'the Verstappen
> rule', pushing cars wide and off the track. It seems that's ok as long
> as it's not Max getting pushed.

"Hamilton just ‘one Verstappen DNF’ away in title fight, says Wolff"

Incitement?

On 7/25/2021 6:22 PM, geoff wrote:
> On 26/07/2021 6:52 am, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-07-24 9:59 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
>>> On 25/07/2021 3:44 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>> $1.8M!
>>>>
>>>> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.red-bull-estimate-damage-to-verstappens-car-from-hamilton-collision-will.4KgQmjryYnBWvTbLQu5IYc.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Horner: "Max won’t dwell on anything from Silverstone and wants to do
>>> his talking on-track."
>>>
>>> Max has been 'doing his talking on track' all year and three times
>>> Lewis bailed out of an up-coming accident because of it. The moment
>>> the roles are reversed (but this time Max doesn't back out like Lewis
>>> has been) we see exactly how much of a 'clean racer' Max is. What was
>>> it called? The Schumacher chop?
>>
>> The roles weren't reversed.
>>
>> Verstappen left Hamilton room.
>>
>> If you watch Verstappen's in-car camera, up until the moment of
>> contact, it is quite clear that his trajectory is going to miss the
>> apex by just enough room for Hamilton to be there.
>>
>> It wasn't a chop. It was a quicker turn-in, because it was later than
>> the normal turn-in point for the corner. He tried to turn in, realized
>> Hamilton was alongside, opened the wheel...
>>
>> ...and then the rapidly arriving corner demands that he turn-in and
>> more quickly than he normally would.
>
> No. It was a "I'm going for the apex whether of not there is another car
> there, and to hell with the consequences because I am a petulant and
> self-entitled plick".
>
> geoff

Or was it...

"Hamilton just ‘one Verstappen DNF’ away in title fight, says Wolff"

Incitement?

News <News@group.name> wrote:
>
>
> Or was it...
>
> "Hamilton just ‘one Verstappen DNF’ away in title fight, says Wolff"
>
> Incitement?

Three repetitions of an out of context quote doesn't help.

News <News@group.name> wrote:
>
> "Hamilton just ‘one Verstappen DNF’ away in title fight, says Wolff"
> Incitement?
Oooh - four.

keithr0 wrote:

> $1.8M!
>
>
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.red-bull-estimate-damage-to-verstappens-car-from-hamilton-collision-will.4KgQmjryYnBWvTbLQu5IYc.html

I very much doubt that is close to the marginal cost i.e. the cost of
manufacturing those additional parts, so it is not the cost of the
accident at all and is a political message for the naive not a sincere
one.

On 7/28/2021 5:59 AM, Bigbird wrote:
> keithr0 wrote:
>
>> $1.8M!
>>
>>
> https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.red-bull-estimate-damage-to-verstappens-car-from-hamilton-collision-will.4KgQmjryYnBWvTbLQu5IYc.html
>
> I very much doubt that is close to the marginal cost i.e. the cost of
> manufacturing those additional parts, so it is not the cost of the
> accident at all and is a political message for the naive not a sincere
> one.
>

If anything, against a hard cap in spending and limited human resources,
the total cost will vastly exceed the stated amount, when the trade-offs
on current spend and future development efforts are concerned.