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sport / rec.autos.sport.f1 / Not Deliberate - Horner

SubjectAuthor
* Not Deliberate - HornerHeron
+* Re: Not Deliberate - HornerNews
|+* Re: Not Deliberate - HornerMark
||`* Re: Not Deliberate - HornerAlan Baker
|| `* Re: Not Deliberate - HornerNews
||  `- Re: Not Deliberate - HornerAlan Baker
|`- Re: Not Deliberate - HornerAlan Baker
`* Re: Not Deliberate - HornerBigbird
 `- Re: Not Deliberate - HornerAlan Baker

1
Not Deliberate - Horner

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From: McKeis...@ipanywhere.com (Heron)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Not Deliberate - Horner
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 11:32:01 -0500
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 by: Heron - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 16:32 UTC

Hamilton ‘braked 23 metres too late’ but
crash wasn’t deliberate, says Horner
https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/30/hamilton-braked-23-metres-too-late-but-crash-wasnt-deliberate-says-horner/

Re: Not Deliberate - Horner

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Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Not Deliberate - Horner
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 12:44:14 -0400
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 by: News - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 16:44 UTC

On 7/30/2021 12:32 PM, Heron wrote:
> Hamilton ‘braked 23 metres too late’ but
> crash wasn’t deliberate, says Horner
> https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/30/hamilton-braked-23-metres-too-late-but-crash-wasnt-deliberate-says-horner/
>

70 feet at a 270 feet per second corner entry speed.

Braked one-quarter second late.

Not a small deviation.

What did Hamilton expect to be the outcome?

Re: Not Deliberate - Horner

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From: mpco...@gmail.com (Mark)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Not Deliberate - Horner
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 17:45:18 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mark - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 17:45 UTC

News <News@group.name> wrote:
> On 7/30/2021 12:32 PM, Heron wrote:
>> Hamilton ‘braked 23 metres too late’ but
>> crash wasn’t deliberate, says Horner
>> https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/30/hamilton-braked-23-metres-too-late-but-crash-wasnt-deliberate-says-horner/
>>
>
>
> 70 feet at a 270 feet per second corner entry speed.
>
> Braked one-quarter second late.
>
> Not a small deviation.
>
> What did Hamilton expect to be the outcome?

Have you seen the full analysis of braking? Verstappen was late braking
too and closer to the inside than in his fastest qualifying lap.

In other words, they were both racing and taking a risk by compromising
their line and braking.

Neither was deliberately intending to crash, though - no matter how
often it is insinuated.

Re: Not Deliberate - Horner

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From: notonyou...@no.no.no.no (Alan Baker)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Not Deliberate - Horner
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 10:53:23 -0700
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 by: Alan Baker - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 17:53 UTC

On 2021-07-30 10:45 a.m., Mark wrote:
> News <News@group.name> wrote:
>> On 7/30/2021 12:32 PM, Heron wrote:
>>> Hamilton ‘braked 23 metres too late’ but
>>> crash wasn’t deliberate, says Horner
>>> https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/30/hamilton-braked-23-metres-too-late-but-crash-wasnt-deliberate-says-horner/
>>>
>>
>>
>> 70 feet at a 270 feet per second corner entry speed.
>>
>> Braked one-quarter second late.
>>
>> Not a small deviation.
>>
>> What did Hamilton expect to be the outcome?
>
> Have you seen the full analysis of braking? Verstappen was late braking
> too and closer to the inside than in his fastest qualifying lap.

Show the lap. Because that is complete nonsense.

>
> In other words, they were both racing and taking a risk by compromising
> their line and braking.

Verstappen compromised his line to leave Hamilton space at the apex as
he was obliged to do by the rules.

Hamilton compromised his line to attempt an overtake and as the
overtaking driver, he need to compromise it more than he did order to
stay clear of Verstappen.

>
> Neither was deliberately intending to crash, though - no matter how
> often it is insinuated.

I agree with that.

Re: Not Deliberate - Horner

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Subject: Re: Not Deliberate - Horner
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 13:55:44 -0400
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 by: News - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 17:55 UTC

On 7/30/2021 1:53 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-07-30 10:45 a.m., Mark wrote:
>> News <News@group.name> wrote:
>>> On 7/30/2021 12:32 PM, Heron wrote:
>>>> Hamilton ‘braked 23 metres too late’ but
>>>> crash wasn’t deliberate, says Horner
>>>> https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/30/hamilton-braked-23-metres-too-late-but-crash-wasnt-deliberate-says-horner/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 70 feet at a 270 feet per second corner entry speed.
>>>
>>> Braked one-quarter second late.
>>>
>>> Not a small deviation.
>>>
>>> What did Hamilton expect to be the outcome?
>>
>> Have you seen the full analysis of braking? Verstappen was late braking
>> too and closer to the inside than in his fastest qualifying lap.
>
> Show the lap. Because that is complete nonsense.
>
>>
>> In other words, they were both racing and taking a risk by compromising
>> their line and braking.
>
> Verstappen compromised his line to leave Hamilton space at the apex as
> he was obliged to do by the rules.
>
> Hamilton compromised his line to attempt an overtake and as the
> overtaking driver, he need to compromise it more than he did order to
> stay clear of Verstappen.
>
>>
>> Neither was deliberately intending to crash, though - no matter how
>> often it is insinuated.
>
> I agree with that.

Yes, yes; and no, unless one presumes Hamilton a neophyte late braker.

Re: Not Deliberate - Horner

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From: notonyou...@no.no.no.no (Alan Baker)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Not Deliberate - Horner
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 11:20:00 -0700
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 by: Alan Baker - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 18:20 UTC

On 2021-07-30 10:55 a.m., News wrote:
> On 7/30/2021 1:53 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-07-30 10:45 a.m., Mark wrote:
>>> News <News@group.name> wrote:
>>>> On 7/30/2021 12:32 PM, Heron wrote:
>>>>> Hamilton ‘braked 23 metres too late’ but
>>>>> crash wasn’t deliberate, says Horner
>>>>> https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/30/hamilton-braked-23-metres-too-late-but-crash-wasnt-deliberate-says-horner/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 70 feet at a 270 feet per second corner entry speed.
>>>>
>>>> Braked one-quarter second late.
>>>>
>>>> Not a small deviation.
>>>>
>>>> What did Hamilton expect to be the outcome?
>>>
>>> Have you seen the full analysis of braking? Verstappen was late braking
>>> too and closer to the inside than in his fastest qualifying lap.
>>
>> Show the lap. Because that is complete nonsense.
>>
>>>
>>> In other words, they were both racing and taking a risk by compromising
>>> their line and braking.
>>
>> Verstappen compromised his line to leave Hamilton space at the apex as
>> he was obliged to do by the rules.
>>
>> Hamilton compromised his line to attempt an overtake and as the
>> overtaking driver, he need to compromise it more than he did order to
>> stay clear of Verstappen.
>>
>>>
>>> Neither was deliberately intending to crash, though - no matter how
>>> often it is insinuated.
>>
>> I agree with that.
>
> Yes, yes; and no, unless one presumes Hamilton a neophyte late braker.

Why?

Do you imagine that because they are not neophytes that they therefore
never make errors?

Hamilton was trying to overtake and he misjudged a little. Now, as the
overtaking driver, the onus on him was to keep clear of Verstappen's
line, and so it doesn't let him off the hook that he erred...

....but that's all it was.

He carried a fraction too much speed and understeered wide.

Re: Not Deliberate - Horner

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From: notonyou...@no.no.no.no (Alan Baker)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Not Deliberate - Horner
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 11:23:40 -0700
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 by: Alan Baker - Fri, 30 Jul 2021 18:23 UTC

On 2021-07-30 9:44 a.m., News wrote:
> On 7/30/2021 12:32 PM, Heron wrote:
>> Hamilton ‘braked 23 metres too late’ but
>> crash wasn’t deliberate, says Horner
>> https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/30/hamilton-braked-23-metres-too-late-but-crash-wasnt-deliberate-says-horner/
>>
>
>
> 70 feet at a 270 feet per second corner entry speed.
>
> Braked one-quarter second late.
>
> Not a small deviation.

Except it wasn't the entire quarter second that was responsible for the
collision. If he'd braked just a half of that quarter second earlier the
tiny contact wouldn't have occurred.

>
> What did Hamilton expect to be the outcome?

That he'd go up the inside with enough speed that he'd end up ahead.

He erred.

Re: Not Deliberate - Horner

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From: bigbird....@gmail.com (Bigbird)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Not Deliberate - Horner
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 13:12:08 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Bigbird - Sat, 31 Jul 2021 13:12 UTC

Heron wrote:

> Hamilton ‘braked 23 metres too late’

Yet was not that far from the apex... so do you believe him?

> but
> crash wasn’t deliberate, says Horner
>
https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/30/hamilton-braked-23-metres-too-late-but-crash-wasnt-deliberate-says-horner/

Re: Not Deliberate - Horner

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From: notonyou...@no.no.no.no (Alan Baker)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Not Deliberate - Horner
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 13:29:30 -0700
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 by: Alan Baker - Sat, 31 Jul 2021 20:29 UTC

On 2021-07-31 6:12 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Heron wrote:
>
>> Hamilton ‘braked 23 metres too late’
>
> Yet was not that far from the apex... so do you believe him?

The relationship is not one-to-one.

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