On 13.12.2022. 18:28, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> Just launching the thread. Any juicy rumors from the two camps?

I was too nervous before the match, not surprised by Argentina leading,
but didn't expect such a knockdown.
At least I can watch 2nd half calmly.

Not sure about refereeing, but you have to play (much) better than this
for the final.

On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 2:58:59 PM UTC-5, vedran wrote:
> Not sure about refereeing, but you have to play (much) better than this
> for the final.

Croatia was the much better team until the Argentinian goal. I know I am provoking the weaufx Gods, but I think this match is not over yet.

On 13.12.2022. 21:02, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 2:58:59 PM UTC-5, vedran wrote:
>
>> Not sure about refereeing, but you have to play (much) better than this
>> for the final.
>
> Croatia was the much better team until the Argentinian goal. I know I am provoking the weaufx Gods, but I think this match is not over yet.

Maybe, but what's possession without proper chances.
It is speculated some players who are not 100% fit are playing, Sosa first,
he is subbed out now.
Reminds me of Subasic 4 years ago.

On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 3:06:51 PM UTC-5, vedran wrote:
> On 13.12.2022. 21:02, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 2:58:59 PM UTC-5, vedran wrote:
> >
> >> Not sure about refereeing, but you have to play (much) better than this
> >> for the final.
> >
> > Croatia was the much better team until the Argentinian goal. I know I am provoking the weaufx Gods, but I think this match is not over yet.
> Maybe, but what's possession without proper chances.
> It is speculated some players who are not 100% fit are playing, Sosa first,
> he is subbed out now.
> Reminds me of Subasic 4 years ago.

60' Croatia trying to be more aggressive in recovering the ball, a few half chances, but also leaving spaces at the back. Still 2-0

On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 3:22:09 PM UTC-5, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 3:06:51 PM UTC-5, vedran wrote:
> > On 13.12.2022. 21:02, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 2:58:59 PM UTC-5, vedran wrote:
> > >
> > >> Not sure about refereeing, but you have to play (much) better than this
> > >> for the final.
> > >
> > > Croatia was the much better team until the Argentinian goal. I know I am provoking the weaufx Gods, but I think this match is not over yet.
> > Maybe, but what's possession without proper chances.
> > It is speculated some players who are not 100% fit are playing, Sosa first,
> > he is subbed out now.
> > Reminds me of Subasic 4 years ago.
> 60' Croatia trying to be more aggressive in recovering the ball, a few half chances, but also leaving spaces at the back. Still 2-0

Messi embarrasses the highly rated Gvardiol on the touchline and lays it on a plater for Alvarez for the easiest of tap-ins. 3-0, game over.

On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 3:32:34 PM UTC-5, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 3:22:09 PM UTC-5, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 3:06:51 PM UTC-5, vedran wrote:
> > > On 13.12.2022. 21:02, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 2:58:59 PM UTC-5, vedran wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Not sure about refereeing, but you have to play (much) better than this
> > > >> for the final.
> > > >
> > > > Croatia was the much better team until the Argentinian goal. I know I am provoking the weaufx Gods, but I think this match is not over yet.
> > > Maybe, but what's possession without proper chances.
> > > It is speculated some players who are not 100% fit are playing, Sosa first,
> > > he is subbed out now.
> > > Reminds me of Subasic 4 years ago.
> > 60' Croatia trying to be more aggressive in recovering the ball, a few half chances, but also leaving spaces at the back. Still 2-0
> Messi embarrasses the highly rated Gvardiol on the touchline and lays it on a plater for Alvarez for the easiest of tap-ins. 3-0, game over.

Now Dybala gets some minutes. Nice of Scaloni

On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 2:43:33 PM UTC-5, Werner Pichler wrote:

> Slightly lucky bounces, it has to be admitted.
> In hockey they would call that 'crashing the net'.

Telemundo team now compared Alvarez's goal to Kempes's second (?) goal against Netherlands in the 1978 final. Good catch

On 13.12.2022. 21:32, Futbolmetrix wrote:

> Messi embarrasses the highly rated Gvardiol on the touchline and lays it on a plater for Alvarez for the easiest of tap-ins. 3-0, game over.

Full revenge for Russia 2018, but let's try to look at this is in a
positive way, at least there is no Argentina (or France) in the Nations
League final.

We would at least need Rebic for a match like this, but he was a bit
critical towards Dalic, forcing Kramaric didn't really pay off,
unless Dalic wanted people to mention Kramaric most of the time,
not in a nice way.

On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 2:54:30 PM UTC-6, vedran wrote:
> On 13.12.2022. 21:32, Futbolmetrix wrote:
>
> > Messi embarrasses the highly rated Gvardiol on the touchline and lays it on a plater for Alvarez for the easiest of tap-ins. 3-0, game over.
> Full revenge for Russia 2018, but let's try to look at this is in a
> positive way, at least there is no Argentina (or France) in the Nations
> League final.
>
> We would at least need Rebic for a match like this, but he was a bit
> critical towards Dalic, forcing Kramaric didn't really pay off,
> unless Dalic wanted people to mention Kramaric most of the time,
> not in a nice way.
Kramaric was really shit... Croatia needs to get in some good forwards (and young players) if they wanna win WC 2026. Anyway great effort for a small nation to back up WC runner up with a semi-final appearance.

On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 2:34:46 PM UTC-6, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 3:32:34 PM UTC-5, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 3:22:09 PM UTC-5, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 3:06:51 PM UTC-5, vedran wrote:
> > > > On 13.12.2022. 21:02, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 2:58:59 PM UTC-5, vedran wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Not sure about refereeing, but you have to play (much) better than this
> > > > >> for the final.
> > > > >
> > > > > Croatia was the much better team until the Argentinian goal. I know I am provoking the weaufx Gods, but I think this match is not over yet.
> > > > Maybe, but what's possession without proper chances.
> > > > It is speculated some players who are not 100% fit are playing, Sosa first,
> > > > he is subbed out now.
> > > > Reminds me of Subasic 4 years ago.
> > > 60' Croatia trying to be more aggressive in recovering the ball, a few half chances, but also leaving spaces at the back. Still 2-0
> > Messi embarrasses the highly rated Gvardiol on the touchline and lays it on a plater for Alvarez for the easiest of tap-ins. 3-0, game over.
> Now Dybala gets some minutes. Nice of Scaloni
And he didn't do shit with those few minutes :-) Alvarez is way better.

On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 9:01:49 PM UTC, LedZep IgaSwanTech wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 2:34:46 PM UTC-6, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 3:32:34 PM UTC-5, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 3:22:09 PM UTC-5, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 3:06:51 PM UTC-5, vedran wrote:
> > > > > On 13.12.2022. 21:02, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> > > > > > On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 2:58:59 PM UTC-5, vedran wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Not sure about refereeing, but you have to play (much) better than this
> > > > > >> for the final.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Croatia was the much better team until the Argentinian goal. I know I am provoking the weaufx Gods, but I think this match is not over yet.
> > > > > Maybe, but what's possession without proper chances.
> > > > > It is speculated some players who are not 100% fit are playing, Sosa first,
> > > > > he is subbed out now.
> > > > > Reminds me of Subasic 4 years ago.
> > > > 60' Croatia trying to be more aggressive in recovering the ball, a few half chances, but also leaving spaces at the back. Still 2-0
> > > Messi embarrasses the highly rated Gvardiol on the touchline and lays it on a plater for Alvarez for the easiest of tap-ins. 3-0, game over.
> > Now Dybala gets some minutes. Nice of Scaloni
> And he didn't do shit with those few minutes :-) Alvarez is way better.

In fairness Croatia did as much tonight as they did against Japan and Brazil, eg nothing. The only difference is their luck ran out tonight.

The only other team I recall doing so little to get to a World Cup semi final is Morocco, which underlines what a poor World Cup Qatar 2022 has been.

And to think we could have had an Argentina- Brazil semi final tonight...... :(

RM

Dans son message précédent, Real Mardin a écrit :

> The only other team I recall doing so little to get to a
> World Cup semi final is Morocco, which underlines what a poor
> World Cup Qatar 2022 has been.

You were not born in 1990 (Argentina) and 1994 (Italia) ?

--
Ixion

On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 9:13:34 PM UTC, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> Dans son message précédent, Real Mardin a écrit :
> > The only other team I recall doing so little to get to a
> > World Cup semi final is Morocco, which underlines what a poor
> > World Cup Qatar 2022 has been.
> You were not born in 1990 (Argentina) and 1994 (Italia) ?

Argentina knocked out Brazil, a very talented Yugoslavia team and the hosts Italy (who had some of the best players in the World). Yes the latter two were on penalties but I think that's better than Croatia or Morocco have done.

Italy got past a talented Nigeria side, Spain and the tournament surprise package Bulgaria. I do accept they rode their luck against Nigeria and had the benefit of some controversy against Spain, but I'm still seeing more there than Croatia and Morocco who basically just play for penalties.

RM

On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 9:33:09 PM UTC+2, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> ixion martin - GdBx a présenté l'énoncé suivant :
> > Le 13/12/2022, Futbolmetrix a supposé :
> >> Just launching the thread. Any juicy rumors from the two
> >> camps?
> >
> > At which minute Argentina will get a dubious penalty ?
> And the result is : 32 !
>
> --
> Ixion

Agreed. Almost certainly shouldn't have been given. The keeper had an outstretched leg but was standing still and could have been easily avoided. There was no intention from him to foul, as far as it seemed, he had the leg stretched from before when he tried to block the ball. Besides, Argentina had already lost control of the ball and could get nothing out of that situation.
It changed the game, before it Croatia had the initiative, even if not very dangerous in front of goal. Afterwards, of course they had to chase the equalizer and Argentina, unlike Brazil, made no mistakes and got the most out of it. (3rd goal and Messi's action at it were brilliant but this doesn't change the situation.)

I'm sorry to say but it looks like even with the video ref, this tournament has also been ruined by the officiating.

But, even if you won't admit it, France has also benefitted from wrong decisions. Maybe not as much as Argentina. If we get a France - Arg. final, both of them can be suspected to have been carried by FIFA.

On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 3:52:59 PM UTC-6, Real Mardin wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 9:13:34 PM UTC, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> > Dans son message précédent, Real Mardin a écrit :
> > > The only other team I recall doing so little to get to a
> > > World Cup semi final is Morocco, which underlines what a poor
> > > World Cup Qatar 2022 has been.
> > You were not born in 1990 (Argentina) and 1994 (Italia) ?
> Argentina knocked out Brazil, a very talented Yugoslavia team and the hosts Italy (who had some of the best players in the World). Yes the latter two were on penalties but I think that's better than Croatia or Morocco have done.
>
> Italy got past a talented Nigeria side, Spain and the tournament surprise package Bulgaria. I do accept they rode their luck against Nigeria and had the benefit of some controversy against Spain, but I'm still seeing more there than Croatia and Morocco who basically just play for penalties.
>
> RM

Good point

LedZep IgaSwanTech avait écrit le 13/12/2022 :
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 3:52:59 PM UTC-6, Real
> Mardin wrote:
>> On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 9:13:34 PM UTC, ixion
>> martin - GdBx wrote:
>>> Dans son message précédent, Real Mardin a écrit :
>>>> The only other team I recall doing so little to get to a
>>>> World Cup semi final is Morocco, which underlines what a
>>>> poor World Cup Qatar 2022 has been.
>>> You were not born in 1990 (Argentina) and 1994 (Italia) ?
>> Argentina knocked out Brazil, a very talented Yugoslavia
>> team and the hosts Italy (who had some of the best players
>> in the World). Yes the latter two were on penalties but I
>> think that's better than Croatia or Morocco have done.
>>
>> Italy got past a talented Nigeria side, Spain and the
>> tournament surprise package Bulgaria. I do accept they rode
>> their luck against Nigeria and had the benefit of some
>> controversy against Spain, but I'm still seeing more there
>> than Croatia and Morocco who basically just play for
>> penalties.
>>
>> RM
>
> Good point

I disagree (and do not have the message of Real Mardin).

Argentina beats Brazil in 1990 on its only opportunity. They
defend against Yougoslavia and play the most boring match of
1990 with Italy (maybe except Egypt's ones).

Italy in 1994 is worse. Croatia played tonight in first 30
minutes more than both previous teams together.

--
Ixion

On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 11:52:59 PM UTC+2, Real Mardin wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 9:13:34 PM UTC, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> > Dans son message précédent, Real Mardin a écrit :
> > > The only other team I recall doing so little to get to a
> > > World Cup semi final is Morocco, which underlines what a poor
> > > World Cup Qatar 2022 has been.
> > You were not born in 1990 (Argentina) and 1994 (Italia) ?
> Argentina knocked out Brazil, a very talented Yugoslavia team and the hosts Italy (who had some of the best players in the World). Yes the latter two were on penalties but I think that's better than Croatia or Morocco have done.
>
> Italy got past a talented Nigeria side, Spain and the tournament surprise package Bulgaria. I do accept they rode their luck against Nigeria and had the benefit of some controversy against Spain, but I'm still seeing more there than Croatia and Morocco who basically just play for penalties.
>
> RM

Croatia didn't play for penalties against Argentina. On the contrary, they had the initiative before the goal that was clearly undeserved IMO. Against Brazil yes, but what were they to do ? It was Brazil, they came strongly on them from the start, not much choice but to sit back and defend and play the counter every time they could. Which they did. Likewise Morocco vs. Portugal. Morocco countered pretty well when they had the chance, which brought them the goal and a few other chances they shouldn't have missed.

FF avait énoncé :

> But, even if you won't admit it, France has also benefitted
> from wrong decisions.

Which one(s) ? You think to the foul on Kane outside the
penalty area in first half ?

> Maybe not as much as Argentina. If we get a France - Arg.
> final, both of them can be suspected to have been carried by
> FIFA.

France did not have any penalty, conceided three, was robbed
against Tunisia and one-sided refereed against us versus
Poland. Even the game versus England where some people whine
about refereeing, England had to penalty and did not score in
the game.

You can point some decisions in France's games (sure they
exist), but to say that one can suspect us to have been carried
by FIFA looks to me a little bit exagerated.

By the way, some people still say that the Perisic's hand in
2018 final was not deliberate so, after all, why not ?

--
Ixion

FF a présenté l'énoncé suivant :
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 11:52:59 PM UTC+2, Real
> Mardin wrote:
>> On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 9:13:34 PM UTC, ixion
>> martin - GdBx wrote:
>>> Dans son message précédent, Real Mardin a écrit :
>>>> The only other team I recall doing so little to get to a
>>>> World Cup semi final is Morocco, which underlines what a
>>>> poor World Cup Qatar 2022 has been.
>>> You were not born in 1990 (Argentina) and 1994 (Italia) ?
>> Argentina knocked out Brazil, a very talented Yugoslavia
>> team and the hosts Italy (who had some of the best players
>> in the World). Yes the latter two were on penalties but I
>> think that's better than Croatia or Morocco have done.
>>
>> Italy got past a talented Nigeria side, Spain and the
>> tournament surprise package Bulgaria. I do accept they rode
>> their luck against Nigeria and had the benefit of some
>> controversy against Spain, but I'm still seeing more there
>> than Croatia and Morocco who basically just play for
>> penalties.
>
> Croatia didn't play for penalties against Argentina. On the
> contrary, they had the initiative before the goal that was
> clearly undeserved IMO. Against Brazil yes, but what were
> they to do ? It was Brazil, they came strongly on them from
> the start, not much choice but to sit back and defend and
> play the counter every time they could. Which they did.
> Likewise Morocco vs. Portugal. Morocco countered pretty well
> when they had the chance, which brought them the goal and a
> few other chances they shouldn't have missed.

Croatia does not chose to "not play", they play when they can
and suffer when the opponent is, on the paper, stronger than
them and shows it in the field.

Wales, for instance, would play with 5 defenders, 4 midfielders
and one striker even versus San Marino (yes, i exagerate, but
that's the idea :)).

--
Ixion

On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 1:04:46 AM UTC+2, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> FF avait énoncé :
> > But, even if you won't admit it, France has also benefitted
> > from wrong decisions.
> Which one(s) ? You think to the foul on Kane outside the
> penalty area in first half ?

Yes. As I said I think it started outside and ended inside the box. I'm not 100% sure and I'd like to watch it again but it looks like nowadays these videos can't be found on youtube any more. Truth be told, I don't have much time right now but maybe in a couple of days I'll try to look for it. If you can point me to it I'll watch it.

> > Maybe not as much as Argentina. If we get a France - Arg.
> > final, both of them can be suspected to have been carried by
> > FIFA.
> France did not have any penalty, conceided three, was robbed
> against Tunisia and one-sided refereed against us versus
> Poland. Even the game versus England where some people whine
> about refereeing, England had to penalty and did not score in
> the game.
>
> You can point some decisions in France's games (sure they
> exist), but to say that one can suspect us to have been carried
> by FIFA looks to me a little bit exagerated.

Come on. Tunisia and the group don't matter, France got where they needed to be. The game vs. England matters. Anyway, I wasn't saying I suspect France to have been carried, just that they can be suspected to have been carried (almost) as much as Argentina. I don't suspect any of them, just poor ref decisions. And I already said I think France would have won anyway (but it's far from sure).

Em terça-feira, 13 de dezembro de 2022 às 16:05:14 UTC-3, Real Mardin escreveu:
> The light shirt / dark shirt directive strikes again - Croatia not wearing
> their famous red and white checked shirts but instead a navy away kit.

Croatia's home kits are cool, but the away ones are a beauty. This one is
almost as good as their 2018 away strip.

I guess that, whoever advances from the other semifinal, there's no reason
to adopt this directive again in the final, right? I hope to see both sides with
their home kits in the big game.

Best regards,

Lléo

Em terça-feira, 13 de dezembro de 2022 às 18:08:56 UTC-3, Real Mardin escreveu:
> In fairness Croatia did as much tonight as they did against Japan and
> Brazil, eg nothing. The only difference is their luck ran out tonight.
>
> The only other team I recall doing so little to get to a World Cup semi
> final is Morocco, which underlines what a poor World Cup Qatar 2022 has
> been.
>
> And to think we could have had an Argentina- Brazil semi final tonight....... :(

Yeah, tell me about it. Of course, in their infinite wisdom, Brasil had to have
seven men upfront four minutes from time while holding to an 1-0 win... Fred,
brought on to close the midfield, all the way down the right wing... It'll take
a long while to live that one down.

But given what we've seen from both sides in the last couple of weeks, I think
Argentina would probably beat Brasil too. They seem hungrier, they are the more
well-coached unit and, of course, they have Messi. Plus, they seem to be playing
at home, full credit to their fans for making these FIFA standard stadia look
like La Bombonera. I think it would be a close contest, but they'd have the edges
that actually matter.

Argentina goes with high morale into the final. They don't look anything like
the team that lost to Saudi Arabia in their opener. Back then I wondered how
they'd take that blow and whether that would affect their confidence, but also
said they were good enough to turn things around. They did, which is a credit
to their leadership on and off the pitch (ie, Messi and Scaloni).

Well, three games to go now (yeah, I intend to watch the 3rd place playoff too,
it's often an entertaining game).

Best regards,

Lléo

On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 1:14:03 AM UTC+2, FF wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 1:04:46 AM UTC+2, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> > FF avait énoncé :
> > > But, even if you won't admit it, France has also benefitted
> > > from wrong decisions.
> > Which one(s) ? You think to the foul on Kane outside the
> > penalty area in first half ?
> Yes. As I said I think it started outside and ended inside the box. I'm not 100% sure and I'd like to watch it again but it looks like nowadays these videos can't be found on youtube any more. Truth be told, I don't have much time right now but maybe in a couple of days I'll try to look for it. If you can point me to it I'll watch it.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-world-cup/story/4830849/why-englands-harry-kane-didnt-get-a-var-penalty-vs-france

(scroll down a bit)
I'd say this photo pretty clearly shows that the actual contact point was inside the box. If you look at it, Kane's foot is just a few inches to the edge, and given the position of the leg the contact clearly was inside.

On 13.12.2022. 20:43, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 2:35:24 PM UTC-5, Werner Pichler wrote:
>
>> And you honestly think it was dubious?!
>
> I actually don't know what that the LOTG say in these circumstances. Alvarez tries to chip the goalkeeper in what is clearly a shot, then the Livakovic barges into him.

Experts here are divided, probably most say it was, interesting, ITV
ones wouldn't give it

Gary Neville: "There is no way that is a penalty."
Ian Wright: "They didn't even check the VAR. I have no idea why. It's
not a penalty."
Roy Keane: "I agree with the lads, that's not a penalty for me."

On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 1:17:58 PM UTC+2, vedran wrote:
> On 13.12.2022. 20:43, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 2:35:24 PM UTC-5, Werner Pichler wrote:
> >
> >> And you honestly think it was dubious?!
> >
> > I actually don't know what that the LOTG say in these circumstances. Alvarez tries to chip the goalkeeper in what is clearly a shot, then the Livakovic barges into him.
> Experts here are divided, probably most say it was, interesting, ITV
> ones wouldn't give it
>
> Gary Neville: "There is no way that is a penalty."
> Ian Wright: "They didn't even check the VAR. I have no idea why. It's
> not a penalty."
> Roy Keane: "I agree with the lads, that's not a penalty for me."

Veditser:

Don’t be sad! You got that slivovitz to successfully treat your condition.

The match that hurt you reminds me of the 1994 World Cup USA. In 2022, Argentina played exactly like Romania in 1994. “Let the opponents have the possession and leave their back vulnerable. We’ll strike hard in counterattacks.”

Argentina was successful now, in 2022… unlike in 2018 Russia. But in 2022, as in 1994, Argentina was gifted 2 penalty kicks — undeservingly, by many accounts. Neither referee decision was legitimate, in my opinion. And I am the founder of Mathematical Axiomaticism:

• “The truth is above anybody and anything.”
• https://saliu.com/axiomatic.html