To carry this over from another thread...

For more flavor, let's divide this into two options:

1. What was the best season of F1 you ever saw with at least five (5) races attended in person?

2. What was the best season of F1 you ever saw without attending a race?

FWIW
DLM

On 10/09/2021 18:19, D Munz wrote:
> To carry this over from another thread...
>
> For more flavor, let's divide this into two options:
>
> 1. What was the best season of F1 you ever saw with at least five (5) races attended in person?

Not been to that many races, never mind a season.

Used to go to the South African GP fairly often as my brother used to
get tickets for the grand stand but, in those days (1970s and early
1980s), they didn't have the TV screens round the track and it was very
easy to lose track of who was in what position.

> 2. What was the best season of F1 you ever saw without attending a race?

I'm not really sure I could say which was the best. Some seasons had
highlights, some had lows. I have enjoyed most seasons.

Cheers

Geoff

On 9/10/2021 1:19 PM, D Munz wrote:

> To carry this over from another thread...
>
> For more flavor, let's divide this into two options:
>
> 1. What was the best season of F1 you ever saw with at least five (5) races attended in person?
>
> 2. What was the best season of F1 you ever saw without attending a race?
>
> FWIW
> DLM
>

1./ Worked (and thus, 'attended', although not as a spectator) F1 and
other pro series races from 1973 to 1984, with 2, 3 or 4 F1 events
(never as many as 5), anywhere from 3 to 7 other pro series races,
including 6, 12 and 24 hour sports car events, along with another 8-10
amateur series worked, so, from 12-20 race weekends, each year.

Mid-1970s (pick any year) F1 were favorite years, with the interest
level improved by the appearances of privateer teams, local entrants,
other series drivers, and new venues.

The 1984 season was the best, all-round championship fight, by far.

2./ That said, haven't 'attended' a race since 1984, and have had only
occasional thoughts about returning. No real interest, no 'best' year.

Why? The formula and 'show' evolved from open, to dull, detached, and
corporate. Television broadcast and display technology and coverage
improved to the point that attending a race would be view-limiting, even
though the Thursday-Sunday race working weekends provided enough time
off between sessions to walk the track, spend time in the working
paddock and hot pits, which was both interesting and loads of fun when
the cars and entrants were open and engaging.

Finally, the 'talent' covering F1 has taken a dump with Liberty's
decision to limit broadcast to the Sky feed with its whiny voice-overs.

Sky broadcast coverage is unwatchable in realtime, but DVR-worthy, with
shuffle-play through the few interesting bits.

Good luck to Liberty. They'll need it, as F1 swirls the drain.

D Munz <dlmunz@gmail.com> wrote:
> To carry this over from another thread...
>
> For more flavor, let's divide this into two options:
>
> 1. What was the best season of F1 you ever saw with at least five (5)
> races attended in person?

Never attended more than 2 GPs in a season (1971: Monaco and Silverstone).
Went to most of the Brands Hatch F1 races between 1964 and 1986. Last
attended a GP in 1987 (Silverstone).
>
> 2. What was the best season of F1 you ever saw without attending a race?

1958 was pretty good with a big showdown between Moss and Hawthorn in
Casablanca
1962 ditto with Hill and Clark at Kyalami
Otherwise 1970, 1976, 1984 and 1986 (I probably did attend a race some of
these years).

--
Sir Tim

On 11/09/2021 5:19 am, D Munz wrote:
> To carry this over from another thread...
>
> For more flavor, let's divide this into two options:
>
> 1. What was the best season of F1 you ever saw with at least five (5) races attended in person?

N/A

> 2. What was the best season of F1 you ever saw without attending a race?

This one - and each year the answer will be the same (not that I'm /that/ old and can't remember my
own address..).

I've been watching 'religiously' since the early 90s when I got Sky Sports. (I was the only person
I knew who /didn't/ get Sky Sports for the rugby.) Before that I only caught the odd race /
highlights package, mainly due to TV coverage here in NZ being spotty back then.

---- OT Ramble follows ----

As a young teenager I spent a lot of time with Ron Roycroft, a New Zealand race driver who raced
Ferraris and Bugatti Type 35s etc. against the likes of Stirling Moss in the 1950s. (I'm blown away
that there's no Wikipedia page for him! This is the best I can do;
<https://books.google.co.nz/books/about/Up_to_Speed.html?id=UPzjAQAACAAJ> ) When I knew him in the
early 1970s he was a car collector with two massive sheds full of over 100 cars, the walls lined
with billboards saying things like "Ron Roycroft uses and recommends..." I spent hours and hours
with him working on his cars. We didn't talk much because he was as deaf as a post (despite having
two massive hearing aids) - a result of years of racing unmuffled cars.

He gave me a 1947 Chevy Fleetmaster like this one
<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/1946ChevroletFleetmasterSedan_IMG_1349.jpg>
when I was 14 y/o. He'd bought a job-lot of cars at auction and it was included but he didn't want
it for his collection. I drove it home that afternoon but my parents made me get rid of it (I sold
it for $50 to a more 'worldy' mate who then made a tidy profit on it). I did keep the "Fleetmaster"
badges from the side of the hood though and still have them.

I'd had motorcycles from the age of about 12, growing up on a farm in the back country of NZ it
wasn't uncommon in those times. My first bike was a Jawa / CZ 175 very similar to this one;
<https://www.lanemotormuseum.org/collection/motorcycles/item/jawa-175cc-1959>. Whenever I needed
bike repairs I'd go to the closest motorcycle repair shop and spend as much time as I could
chatting to the owner, Ginger Molloy. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_Molloy> Even though my
family wasn't rich enough for me to take part in proper motor sport most summer weekends I'd take
part in paddock races around hay bales, racing both bikes and cars...

I very nearly bought a Vincent Grey Ghost (a rare racing version of the Grey Flash - that I noticed
in the back of a workshop) when I was 18 but I couldn't get the money until pay-day and it sold the
day before. I shouldn't have got the owner to take the cover off the old bike in the back that
caught my eye and drag it to the front. Someone else came in, saw it and offered more than I'd
agreed to pay for it and it was gone when I went in. This is it more recently
<https://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/vincent/Vincent-Grey-Ghost-Pukekohe-NZ--4-5-Feb-2012-128-VBG.htm>
.. Apparently there are only about a dozen of them in the world, this is the only one in NZ.

So yeah, I've been 'into' motorsport since I was fairly young.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

On 11/09/2021 1:11 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:

> I very nearly bought a Vincent Grey Ghost (a rare racing version of the
> Grey Flash - that I noticed in the back of a workshop) when I was 18 but
> I couldn't get the money until pay-day and it sold the day before. I
> shouldn't have got the owner to take the cover off the old bike in the
> back that caught my eye and drag it to the front. Someone else came in,
> saw it and offered more than I'd agreed to pay for it and it was gone
> when I went in. This is it more recently
> <https://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/vincent/Vincent-Grey-Ghost-Pukekohe-NZ--4-5-Feb-2012-128-VBG.htm>
> . Apparently there are only about a dozen of them in the world, this is
> the only one in NZ.

Thanks for that, it's not a bike that I was aware of, looks like a
racing version of the Comet. A fellow apprentice had a Comet, but the
best thing about that bike was the name on the tank. It was a 1000 with
one pot missing, just as heavy as the 1000 with rather less power.

Vincents aren't exactly thick on the ground in the southern hemisphere,
last one I saw on the road must have been 20 odd years ago, the last one
that I saw at all was in the museum in Invercargil.

~misfit~ <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> writes:
> On 11/09/2021 5:19 am, D Munz wrote:
>> To carry this over from another thread...
>>
>> For more flavor, let's divide this into two options:
>>
>> 1. What was the best season of F1 you ever saw with at least five
>> (5) races attended in person?
>
> N/A

Ditto.

>> 2. What was the best season of F1 you ever saw without attending a race?
>
> This one - and each year the answer will be the same (not that I'm
> /that/ old and can't remember my own address..).

There definitely was a low patch about 5 or so years ago, and it's
certainly picked itself up more recently. The last few have been
excellent, and I'm really looking forward to coming seasons too,
there's plenty of talent out there that I'd like to see realised.

But after the struggles from the years prior, I think my highest
high was 1998.

Phil
--
We are no longer hunters and nomads. No longer awed and frightened, as we have
gained some understanding of the world in which we live. As such, we can cast
aside childish remnants from the dawn of our civilization.
-- NotSanguine on SoylentNews, after Eugen Weber in /The Western Tradition/

On 11/09/2021 9:46 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 11/09/2021 1:11 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:
>
>> I very nearly bought a Vincent Grey Ghost (a rare racing version of the Grey Flash - that I
>> noticed in the back of a workshop) when I was 18 but I couldn't get the money until pay-day and
>> it sold the day before. I shouldn't have got the owner to take the cover off the old bike in the
>> back that caught my eye and drag it to the front. Someone else came in, saw it and offered more
>> than I'd agreed to pay for it and it was gone when I went in. This is it more recently
>> <https://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/vincent/Vincent-Grey-Ghost-Pukekohe-NZ--4-5-Feb-2012-128-VBG.htm>
>> . Apparently there are only about a dozen of them in the world, this is the only one in NZ.
>
> Thanks for that, it's not a bike that I was aware of, looks like a racing version of the Comet. A
> fellow apprentice had a Comet, but the best thing about that bike was the name on the tank. It was
> a 1000 with one pot missing, just as heavy as the 1000 with rather less power.
>
> Vincents aren't exactly thick on the ground in the southern hemisphere, last one I saw on the road
> must have been 20 odd years ago, the last one that I saw at all was in the museum in Invercargil.

The guy that I almost bought it off back in ~1980 called it a Grey Ghost and it seems that it's
still being called that. However it seems it was actually a Grey Flash;
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Grey_Flash>
a bike specifically built for racing and as raced by John Surtees (as mentioned on the above page).
I saw what looked to me like the front of a Black Shadow with a perished front tyre under a dusty
old tarp, obviously untouched for years, in the back of the workshop. (I'd seen a few Vincents when
I spent time with Ron Roycroft, he had a bike collection too including three Ariel Square fours, a
500cc, a 600cc and a 1,000cc.) When I asked and looked at it I didn't know what to make of it -
other than I wanted it. As I was working 7 days a week 12 hour night shifts at the time I could pay
what the guy asked for it ($250) outright out of my next pay packet.

A few years back I was wondering if I'd really let one of these slip between my fingers as there
were only a maximum of 31 ever made (and the place I nearly bought it from no longer exists and is
another town 4 hours away). That's when I Googled "Vincent Grey Ghost", found the picture linked in
my previous post. Further trawling of the internet turned up this page;
<http://www.thevincent.com/greyflashchart.html>
which shows that one of them was originally sold to a NZ company so it looks like I stumbled on
(maybe) the only one in the southern hemisphere. I wish I'd given the guy a deposit instead of just
saying I'd be back on Friday with the cash - or at least pushed it to the back of the garage again
and covered it up. Oh well...

Cheers,
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

On 11/09/2021 9:46 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 11/09/2021 1:11 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:
>
>> I very nearly bought a Vincent Grey Ghost (a rare racing version of the Grey Flash - that I
>> noticed in the back of a workshop) when I was 18 but I couldn't get the money until pay-day and
>> it sold the day before. I shouldn't have got the owner to take the cover off the old bike in the
>> back that caught my eye and drag it to the front. Someone else came in, saw it and offered more
>> than I'd agreed to pay for it and it was gone when I went in. This is it more recently
>> <https://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/vincent/Vincent-Grey-Ghost-Pukekohe-NZ--4-5-Feb-2012-128-VBG.htm>
>> . Apparently there are only about a dozen of them in the world, this is the only one in NZ.
>
> Thanks for that, it's not a bike that I was aware of, looks like a racing version of the Comet. A
> fellow apprentice had a Comet, but the best thing about that bike was the name on the tank. It was
> a 1000 with one pot missing, just as heavy as the 1000 with rather less power.
>
> Vincents aren't exactly thick on the ground in the southern hemisphere, last one I saw on the road
> must have been 20 odd years ago, the last one that I saw at all was in the museum in Invercargil.

I forgot to say that it looks like that picture was taken at a BEARs (British, European, American
Racing) bike meeting in Pukekohe. They used to have annual meetings here in the town I live in,
Pukekohe. I used to go to them every year back in the late 70s and 80s (and likely still do) but I
haven't owned a bike or really been involved in the bike scene since then. I've been thinking about
it again lately but... life.

I wish I still had my old Triumph 250cc twin Tigress scooter, that would be great for around town
(it did 70mph anyway so would also be fine for open road).
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_Tigress/BSA_Sunbeam>
However the clutch started slipping badly, I couldn't get parts as Triumph / Triumph dealers didn't
exist at the time so sold it off cheaply, only to find out a year or two later that there were
after-market parts available. I wish the internet was around when I was younger, there are a few
decisions I would have made differently with more information.

Cheers,
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

On 2021-09-10 1:19 PM, D Munz wrote:
> To carry this over from another thread...
>
> For more flavor, let's divide this into two options:
>
> 1. What was the best season of F1 you ever saw with at least five (5) races attended in person?

As a North American, my options for attending races are quite limited,
compared to Europeans. I did manage to attend Le Mans -- I know, not an
F1 race -- and the old Hockenheim in the same year as both the Canadian
GP (I can't remember whether it was at Mosport or Mount Tremblant) and
the US Grand Prix at Watkins Glen. That would have been in the early
1970s, although I am unclear on the exact date.

I pretty regularly attended the Canadian and US Grand Prixs during my
college years, my first visit to Mosport in 1966.

Was that 1970s year the best? Possibly not.
>
> 2. What was the best season of F1 you ever saw without attending a race?

Ah, now that is a hard one. I tend to recall old seasons in terms of who
I was cheering for -- or against -- at the time. If my hero was doing
well, it was, ipso facto, a good season. But the overall racing, I
really couldn't tell you what it was like.

>
> FWIW
> DLM
>

On 12/09/2021 12:34 am, ~misfit~ wrote:
> On 11/09/2021 9:46 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 11/09/2021 1:11 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:
>>
>>> I very nearly bought a Vincent Grey Ghost (a rare racing version of the Grey Flash - that I
>>> noticed in the back of a workshop) when I was 18 but I couldn't get the money until pay-day and
>>> it sold the day before. I shouldn't have got the owner to take the cover off the old bike in the
>>> back that caught my eye and drag it to the front. Someone else came in, saw it and offered more
>>> than I'd agreed to pay for it and it was gone when I went in. This is it more recently
>>> <https://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/vincent/Vincent-Grey-Ghost-Pukekohe-NZ--4-5-Feb-2012-128-VBG.htm>
>>> . Apparently there are only about a dozen of them in the world, this is the only one in NZ.
>>
>> Thanks for that, it's not a bike that I was aware of, looks like a racing version of the Comet. A
>> fellow apprentice had a Comet, but the best thing about that bike was the name on the tank. It
>> was a 1000 with one pot missing, just as heavy as the 1000 with rather less power.
>>
>> Vincents aren't exactly thick on the ground in the southern hemisphere, last one I saw on the
>> road must have been 20 odd years ago, the last one that I saw at all was in the museum in
>> Invercargil.
>
> I forgot to say that it looks like that picture was taken at a BEARs (British, European, American
> Racing) bike meeting in Pukekohe. They used to have annual meetings here in the town I live in,
> Pukekohe. I used to go to them every year back in the late 70s and 80s (and likely still do) but I
> haven't owned a bike or really been involved in the bike scene since then. I've been thinking about
> it again lately but... life.

Ok that doesn't make sense, damn editing! I meant to say they likely still have the meetings, not
that I likely still go to them. <g>

When I used to go to the meetings I didn't even live here and had to travel a few hours round trip
to go. Funny how things work out.

> I wish I still had my old Triumph 250cc twin Tigress scooter, that would be great for around town
> (it did 70mph anyway so would also be fine for open road).
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_Tigress/BSA_Sunbeam>
> However the clutch started slipping badly, I couldn't get parts as Triumph / Triumph dealers didn't
> exist at the time so sold it off cheaply, only to find out a year or two later that there were
> after-market parts available. I wish the internet was around when I was younger, there are a few
> decisions I would have made differently with more information.

The after-market clutch would have had to have been ordered and paid for by post from England at
the time but I would have done that if I'd only known it was an option. The guy who bought it from
me knew due to an article / advert in a motorcycle magazine. Would have been nice if he'd told me
instead of saying "It's fucked, my brother has the engine from one on a go-kart, I'll give you $20
for it for spares". People ay? What made it worse was he was a work 'mate' at the automotive
engineering shop I was working at. He always acted superior to the rest of us as he was a qualified
aircraft engineer and assembled all of the race engines etc.

That 250 Tigress was a great scooter, much better than the contemporary 'buzzy' Vespa, Lambretta
scooters etc. that I'd seen around before. I saw a 250 Tigress in average condition advertised and
sold a couple of years ago on a local auction site. I was interested until the bids got too rich
for my blood, it went for over $10K.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

On Saturday, September 11, 2021 at 7:56:29 PM UTC-6, ~misfit~ wrote:
> On 12/09/2021 12:34 am, ~misfit~ wrote:
> > On 11/09/2021 9:46 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> >> On 11/09/2021 1:11 pm, ~misfit~ wrote:
> >>
> >>> I very nearly bought a Vincent Grey Ghost (a rare racing version of the Grey Flash - that I
> >>> noticed in the back of a workshop) when I was 18 but I couldn't get the money until pay-day and
> >>> it sold the day before. I shouldn't have got the owner to take the cover off the old bike in the
> >>> back that caught my eye and drag it to the front. Someone else came in, saw it and offered more
> >>> than I'd agreed to pay for it and it was gone when I went in. This is it more recently
> >>> <https://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/vincent/Vincent-Grey-Ghost-Pukekohe-NZ--4-5-Feb-2012-128-VBG.htm>
> >>> . Apparently there are only about a dozen of them in the world, this is the only one in NZ.
> >>
> >> Thanks for that, it's not a bike that I was aware of, looks like a racing version of the Comet. A
> >> fellow apprentice had a Comet, but the best thing about that bike was the name on the tank. It
> >> was a 1000 with one pot missing, just as heavy as the 1000 with rather less power.
> >>
> >> Vincents aren't exactly thick on the ground in the southern hemisphere, last one I saw on the
> >> road must have been 20 odd years ago, the last one that I saw at all was in the museum in
> >> Invercargil.
> >
> > I forgot to say that it looks like that picture was taken at a BEARs (British, European, American
> > Racing) bike meeting in Pukekohe. They used to have annual meetings here in the town I live in,
> > Pukekohe. I used to go to them every year back in the late 70s and 80s (and likely still do) but I
> > haven't owned a bike or really been involved in the bike scene since then. I've been thinking about
> > it again lately but... life.
> Ok that doesn't make sense, damn editing! I meant to say they likely still have the meetings, not
> that I likely still go to them. <g>
>
> When I used to go to the meetings I didn't even live here and had to travel a few hours round trip
> to go. Funny how things work out.
> > I wish I still had my old Triumph 250cc twin Tigress scooter, that would be great for around town
> > (it did 70mph anyway so would also be fine for open road).
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_Tigress/BSA_Sunbeam>
> > However the clutch started slipping badly, I couldn't get parts as Triumph / Triumph dealers didn't
> > exist at the time so sold it off cheaply, only to find out a year or two later that there were
> > after-market parts available. I wish the internet was around when I was younger, there are a few
> > decisions I would have made differently with more information.
> The after-market clutch would have had to have been ordered and paid for by post from England at
> the time but I would have done that if I'd only known it was an option. The guy who bought it from
> me knew due to an article / advert in a motorcycle magazine. Would have been nice if he'd told me
> instead of saying "It's fucked, my brother has the engine from one on a go-kart, I'll give you $20
> for it for spares". People ay? What made it worse was he was a work 'mate' at the automotive
> engineering shop I was working at. He always acted superior to the rest of us as he was a qualified
> aircraft engineer and assembled all of the race engines etc.
>
> That 250 Tigress was a great scooter, much better than the contemporary 'buzzy' Vespa, Lambretta
> scooters etc. that I'd seen around before. I saw a 250 Tigress in average condition advertised and
> sold a couple of years ago on a local auction site. I was interested until the bids got too rich
> for my blood, it went for over $10K.

Give it a fucking rest.
You ended up a fucking mouthpiece
crying loser.