Have to be:
- VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first lap (note his
trajectory).
- PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER, holding up HAM.
- GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting or not.
- LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
- MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity to 'win' on his
new soft tyres.

Hollow, and a travesty.

geoff

geoff wrote:

> Have to be:
> - VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first lap (note his
> trajectory).

It was certainly a very hard block pass that required Hamilton to take
avoiding action.

> - PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER, holding up HAM.
> - GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting or not.
> - LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
> - MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity to 'win' on
> his new soft tyres.
>

This is why it feels such a wrong decision.

To not follow the regs in a way that actually reverses the likely
outcome pre safety car leaves a bad taste. It is not unusual for a SC
to determine the outcome of the race but in this instance it was the
Race Director that determined the winner.

On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 2:37:00 AM UTC+11, Bigbird wrote:
> geoff wrote:
>
> > Have to be:
> > - VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first lap (note his
> > trajectory).
> It was certainly a very hard block pass that required Hamilton to take
> avoiding action.
> > - PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER, holding up HAM.
> > - GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting or not.
> > - LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
> > - MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity to 'win' on
> > his new soft tyres.
> >
> This is why it feels such a wrong decision.
>
> To not follow the regs in a way that actually reverses the likely
> outcome pre safety car leaves a bad taste. It is not unusual for a SC
> to determine the outcome of the race but in this instance it was the
> Race Director that determined the winner.

The best man won but don't worry Merc will be bad losers and play a victim card.
They just need to pick the card.

build wrote:

> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 2:37:00 AM UTC+11, Bigbird wrote:
> > geoff wrote:
> >
> > > Have to be:
> > > - VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first lap (note
> > > his trajectory).
> > It was certainly a very hard block pass that required Hamilton to
> > take avoiding action.
> > > - PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER, holding up
> > > HAM. - GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting or not.
> > > - LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
> > > - MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity to 'win'
> > > on his new soft tyres.
> > >
> > This is why it feels such a wrong decision.
> >
> > To not follow the regs in a way that actually reverses the likely
> > outcome pre safety car leaves a bad taste. It is not unusual for a
> > SC to determine the outcome of the race but in this instance it was
> > the Race Director that determined the winner.
>
> The best man won but don't worry Merc will be bad losers and play a
> victim card. They just need to pick the card.

<sigh>

I seems ignoring you is not enough to prevent you being an ignorant and
annoying drunk asshole.

Have a nice off season in rehab.

On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 3:14:23 AM UTC+11, Bigbird wrote:
> build wrote:
>
> > On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 2:37:00 AM UTC+11, Bigbird wrote:
> > > geoff wrote:
> > >
> > > > Have to be:
> > > > - VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first lap (note
> > > > his trajectory).
> > > It was certainly a very hard block pass that required Hamilton to
> > > take avoiding action.
> > > > - PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER, holding up
> > > > HAM. - GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting or not.
> > > > - LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
> > > > - MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity to 'win'
> > > > on his new soft tyres.
> > > >
> > > This is why it feels such a wrong decision.
> > >
> > > To not follow the regs in a way that actually reverses the likely
> > > outcome pre safety car leaves a bad taste. It is not unusual for a
> > > SC to determine the outcome of the race but in this instance it was
> > > the Race Director that determined the winner.
> >
> > The best man won but don't worry Merc will be bad losers and play a
> > victim card. They just need to pick the card.
> <sigh>
>
> I seems ignoring you is not enough to prevent you being an ignorant and
> annoying drunk asshole.
>
> Have a nice off season in rehab.

LOL. You always resort to inane abuse. Ask your free NHS therapist why you do that.
I'll be on the Tasman Peninsula before I head to Taupo this summer during the off season. :-)
Enjoy your English winter.

build

build <buildy@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 2:37:00 AM UTC+11, Bigbird wrote:
>> geoff wrote:
>>
>>> Have to be:
>>> - VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first lap (note his
>>> trajectory).
>> It was certainly a very hard block pass that required Hamilton to take
>> avoiding action.
>>> - PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER, holding up HAM.
>>> - GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting or not.
>>> - LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
>>> - MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity to 'win' on
>>> his new soft tyres.
>>>
>> This is why it feels such a wrong decision.
>>
>> To not follow the regs in a way that actually reverses the likely
>> outcome pre safety car leaves a bad taste. It is not unusual for a SC
>> to determine the outcome of the race but in this instance it was the
>> Race Director that determined the winner.
>
> The best man won but don't worry Merc will be bad losers and play a victim card.
> They just need to pick the card.
>
>

Horner, Marko and Verstappen have been playing the “victim card” all
season. In this instance Mercedes don’t need to play a card because they
*are* victims - victims of Masi’s illegal decision to effectively award the
race to Max.

It’s a sad situation for both drivers, either of whom would thoroughly have
deserved the championship, but especially for Max whose win will always be
tainted.

Masi should go.

--
Sir Tim

On 12 Dec 2021 16:38:46 GMT, Sir Tim <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>build <buildy@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 2:37:00 AM UTC+11, Bigbird wrote:
>>> geoff wrote:
>>>
>>>> Have to be:
>>>> - VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first lap (note his
>>>> trajectory).
>>> It was certainly a very hard block pass that required Hamilton to take
>>> avoiding action.
>>>> - PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER, holding up HAM.
>>>> - GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting or not.
>>>> - LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
>>>> - MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity to 'win' on
>>>> his new soft tyres.
>>>>
>>> This is why it feels such a wrong decision.
>>>
>>> To not follow the regs in a way that actually reverses the likely
>>> outcome pre safety car leaves a bad taste. It is not unusual for a SC
>>> to determine the outcome of the race but in this instance it was the
>>> Race Director that determined the winner.
>>
>> The best man won but don't worry Merc will be bad losers and play a victim card.
>> They just need to pick the card.
>>
>>
>
>Horner, Marko and Verstappen have been playing the “victim card” all
>season. In this instance Mercedes don’t need to play a card because they
>*are* victims - victims of Masi’s illegal decision to effectively award the
>race to Max.
>
>It’s a sad situation for both drivers, either of whom would thoroughly have
>deserved the championship, but especially for Max whose win will always be
>tainted.

I agree. I can understand Masi wanting to allow them to "go racing"
but he should have left the lapped cars behind the safety car which
would have been within the regulations but still allowed Verstappen a
half-chance which was just about what he deserved.

>
>Masi should go.
I agree though not just because of this decision - everyone is
entitled to a mistake under pressure albeit this was a pretty big one.
What really annoys me, however, is how he seems open to being
influenced by principals shouting at him - last week's bartering with
Horner about what penalty Verstappen should get was ridiculous.

On Sunday, 12 December 2021 at 17:25:13 UTC, martin...@gmail.com wrote:
> On 12 Dec 2021 16:38:46 GMT, Sir Tim <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> >build <bui...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 2:37:00 AM UTC+11, Bigbird wrote:
> >>> geoff wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Have to be:
> >>>> - VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first lap (note his
> >>>> trajectory).
> >>> It was certainly a very hard block pass that required Hamilton to take
> >>> avoiding action.
> >>>> - PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER, holding up HAM.
> >>>> - GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting or not.
> >>>> - LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
> >>>> - MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity to 'win' on
> >>>> his new soft tyres.
> >>>>
> >>> This is why it feels such a wrong decision.
> >>>
> >>> To not follow the regs in a way that actually reverses the likely
> >>> outcome pre safety car leaves a bad taste. It is not unusual for a SC
> >>> to determine the outcome of the race but in this instance it was the
> >>> Race Director that determined the winner.
> >>
> >> The best man won but don't worry Merc will be bad losers and play a victim card.
> >> They just need to pick the card.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Horner, Marko and Verstappen have been playing the “victim card” all
> >season. In this instance Mercedes don’t need to play a card because they
> >*are* victims - victims of Masi’s illegal decision to effectively award the
> >race to Max.
> >
> >It’s a sad situation for both drivers, either of whom would thoroughly have
> >deserved the championship, but especially for Max whose win will always be
> >tainted.
> I agree. I can understand Masi wanting to allow them to "go racing"
> but he should have left the lapped cars behind the safety car which
> would have been within the regulations but still allowed Verstappen a
> half-chance which was just about what he deserved.
>
> >
> >Masi should go.
>
> I agree though not just because of this decision - everyone is
> entitled to a mistake under pressure albeit this was a pretty big one.
> What really annoys me, however, is how he seems open to being
> influenced by principals shouting at him - last week's bartering with
> Horner about what penalty Verstappen should get was ridiculous.
Masi has been unlucky in that the only scenario where this became
an issue is when the accident happened when it did.

3 laps earlier for the accident and the outcome would have been the
same for Lewis / Max.

1 lap later and the SC would have definitely been out at the end of
the race.

Martin Harran wrote:

> On 12 Dec 2021 16:38:46 GMT, Sir Tim <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> >build <buildy@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 2:37:00 AM UTC+11, Bigbird wrote:
> >>> geoff wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Have to be:
> >>>> - VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first lap (note
> his >>>> trajectory).
> >>> It was certainly a very hard block pass that required Hamilton to
> take >>> avoiding action.
> >>>> - PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER, holding up
> HAM. >>>> - GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting or not.
> >>>> - LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
> >>>> - MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity to
> 'win' on >>>> his new soft tyres.
> >>>>
> >>> This is why it feels such a wrong decision.
> >>>
> >>> To not follow the regs in a way that actually reverses the likely
> >>> outcome pre safety car leaves a bad taste. It is not unusual for
> a SC >>> to determine the outcome of the race but in this instance it
> was the >>> Race Director that determined the winner.
> >>
> >> The best man won but don't worry Merc will be bad losers and play
> a victim card. >> They just need to pick the card.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Horner, Marko and Verstappen have been playing the “victim card” all
> > season. In this instance Mercedes don’t need to play a card because
> > they *are* victims - victims of Masi’s illegal decision to
> > effectively award the race to Max.
> >
> > It’s a sad situation for both drivers, either of whom would
> > thoroughly have deserved the championship, but especially for Max
> > whose win will always be tainted.
>
> I agree. I can understand Masi wanting to allow them to "go racing"
> but he should have left the lapped cars behind the safety car which
> would have been within the regulations but still allowed Verstappen a
> half-chance which was just about what he deserved.
>
> >
> > Masi should go.
>
> I agree though not just because of this decision - everyone is
> entitled to a mistake under pressure albeit this was a pretty big one.

If he did not realise he was handing the championship to Max then he is
probably not the man for the job.

> What really annoys me, however, is how he seems open to being
> influenced by principals shouting at him - last week's bartering with
> Horner about what penalty Verstappen should get was ridiculous.

There is clearly too much of that going on. Underlining that perhaps he
is seen as weak. If he thinks his job is to keep everyone happy doesn't
understand the job.

"Bigbird" <bigbird.nospam.usenet@gmail.com> writes:
> Martin Harran wrote:
>> On 12 Dec 2021 16:38:46 GMT, Sir Tim <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> > Masi should go.
>>
>> I agree though not just because of this decision - everyone is
>> entitled to a mistake under pressure albeit this was a pretty big one.
>
> If he did not realise he was handing the championship to Max then he is
> probably not the man for the job.

If he did realise he was handing the championship to Max, then he is
*definitely* not the man for the job.

I'm kinda reminded of /Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels/'s
Rory Beaker "I'll kill ya" line to Nick the Greek.

Phil
--
We are no longer hunters and nomads. No longer awed and frightened, as we have
gained some understanding of the world in which we live. As such, we can cast
aside childish remnants from the dawn of our civilization.
-- NotSanguine on SoylentNews, after Eugen Weber in /The Western Tradition/

Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> wrote:

>"Bigbird" <bigbird.nospam.usenet@gmail.com> writes:
>> Martin Harran wrote:
>>> On 12 Dec 2021 16:38:46 GMT, Sir Tim <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> > Masi should go.
>>>
>>> I agree though not just because of this decision - everyone is
>>> entitled to a mistake under pressure albeit this was a pretty big one.
>>
>> If he did not realise he was handing the championship to Max then he is
>> probably not the man for the job.
>
>If he did realise he was handing the championship to Max, then he is
>*definitely* not the man for the job.

if that decision stands, F1 is dead. Merc should drop out immediately.

HH

On 2021-12-12 7:21 a.m., geoff wrote:
> Have to be:
> - VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first lap (note his
>   trajectory).

Give it a rest.

Hamilton came out of that exchange with a larger lead than he had and no...

....he did not give all the advantage he gained back.

> - PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER, holding up HAM.

It was utterly brilliant drivign.

> - GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting or not.
> - LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
> - MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity to 'win' on his
> new soft tyres.
>
> Hollow, and a travesty.

You wouldn't say that about this if it hadn't been the last race of the
year.

Did the way it play out end up helping Verstappen? Of course. But there
really was no choice.

Masi (note the correct spelling) did what he could to allow the two
drivers to race to the finish.

Mercedes made their choices (twice!) not to pit for better tires because
they wanted track position. They had their chances to make other choices.

On 2021-12-12 7:36 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> geoff wrote:
>
>> Have to be:
>> - VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first lap (note his
>> trajectory).
>
> It was certainly a very hard block pass that required Hamilton to take
> avoiding action.
>
>> - PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER, holding up HAM.
>> - GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting or not.
>> - LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
>> - MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity to 'win' on
>> his new soft tyres.
>>
>
> This is why it feels such a wrong decision.
>
> To not follow the regs in a way that actually reverses the likely
> outcome pre safety car leaves a bad taste. It is not unusual for a SC
> to determine the outcome of the race but in this instance it was the
> Race Director that determined the winner.
>

What regulation did they fail to follow?

Quote it.

On 2021-12-12 8:38 a.m., Sir Tim wrote:
> build <buildy@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 2:37:00 AM UTC+11, Bigbird wrote:
>>> geoff wrote:
>>>
>>>> Have to be:
>>>> - VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first lap (note his
>>>> trajectory).
>>> It was certainly a very hard block pass that required Hamilton to take
>>> avoiding action.
>>>> - PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER, holding up HAM.
>>>> - GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting or not.
>>>> - LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
>>>> - MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity to 'win' on
>>>> his new soft tyres.
>>>>
>>> This is why it feels such a wrong decision.
>>>
>>> To not follow the regs in a way that actually reverses the likely
>>> outcome pre safety car leaves a bad taste. It is not unusual for a SC
>>> to determine the outcome of the race but in this instance it was the
>>> Race Director that determined the winner.
>>
>> The best man won but don't worry Merc will be bad losers and play a victim card.
>> They just need to pick the card.
>>
>>
>
> Horner, Marko and Verstappen have been playing the “victim card” all
> season. In this instance Mercedes don’t need to play a card because they
> *are* victims - victims of Masi’s illegal decision to effectively award the
> race to Max.

If the decision was "illegal"...

....then quote the regulation that it violates.

>
> It’s a sad situation for both drivers, either of whom would thoroughly have
> deserved the championship, but especially for Max whose win will always be
> tainted.
>
> Masi should go.
>

On 2021-12-12 9:24 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
> On 12 Dec 2021 16:38:46 GMT, Sir Tim <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> build <buildy@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 2:37:00 AM UTC+11, Bigbird wrote:
>>>> geoff wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Have to be:
>>>>> - VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first lap (note his
>>>>> trajectory).
>>>> It was certainly a very hard block pass that required Hamilton to take
>>>> avoiding action.
>>>>> - PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER, holding up HAM.
>>>>> - GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting or not.
>>>>> - LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
>>>>> - MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity to 'win' on
>>>>> his new soft tyres.
>>>>>
>>>> This is why it feels such a wrong decision.
>>>>
>>>> To not follow the regs in a way that actually reverses the likely
>>>> outcome pre safety car leaves a bad taste. It is not unusual for a SC
>>>> to determine the outcome of the race but in this instance it was the
>>>> Race Director that determined the winner.
>>>
>>> The best man won but don't worry Merc will be bad losers and play a victim card.
>>> They just need to pick the card.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Horner, Marko and Verstappen have been playing the “victim card” all
>> season. In this instance Mercedes don’t need to play a card because they
>> *are* victims - victims of Masi’s illegal decision to effectively award the
>> race to Max.
>>
>> It’s a sad situation for both drivers, either of whom would thoroughly have
>> deserved the championship, but especially for Max whose win will always be
>> tainted.
>
> I agree. I can understand Masi wanting to allow them to "go racing"
> but he should have left the lapped cars behind the safety car which
> would have been within the regulations but still allowed Verstappen a
> half-chance which was just about what he deserved.

Which regulation do you claim Masi breached?

On 2021-12-12 11:25 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Martin Harran wrote:
>
>> On 12 Dec 2021 16:38:46 GMT, Sir Tim <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> build <buildy@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 2:37:00 AM UTC+11, Bigbird wrote:
>>>>> geoff wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Have to be:
>>>>>> - VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first lap (note
>> his >>>> trajectory).
>>>>> It was certainly a very hard block pass that required Hamilton to
>> take >>> avoiding action.
>>>>>> - PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER, holding up
>> HAM. >>>> - GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting or not.
>>>>>> - LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
>>>>>> - MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity to
>> 'win' on >>>> his new soft tyres.
>>>>>>
>>>>> This is why it feels such a wrong decision.
>>>>>
>>>>> To not follow the regs in a way that actually reverses the likely
>>>>> outcome pre safety car leaves a bad taste. It is not unusual for
>> a SC >>> to determine the outcome of the race but in this instance it
>> was the >>> Race Director that determined the winner.
>>>>
>>>> The best man won but don't worry Merc will be bad losers and play
>> a victim card. >> They just need to pick the card.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Horner, Marko and Verstappen have been playing the “victim card” all
>>> season. In this instance Mercedes don’t need to play a card because
>>> they *are* victims - victims of Masi’s illegal decision to
>>> effectively award the race to Max.
>>>
>>> It’s a sad situation for both drivers, either of whom would
>>> thoroughly have deserved the championship, but especially for Max
>>> whose win will always be tainted.
>>
>> I agree. I can understand Masi wanting to allow them to "go racing"
>> but he should have left the lapped cars behind the safety car which
>> would have been within the regulations but still allowed Verstappen a
>> half-chance which was just about what he deserved.
>>
>>>
>>> Masi should go.
>>
>> I agree though not just because of this decision - everyone is
>> entitled to a mistake under pressure albeit this was a pretty big one.
>
> If he did not realise he was handing the championship to Max then he is
> probably not the man for the job.

He let the two contenders race to the end.

Mercedes could have pitted Hamilton for a set of softs.

They chose not to.

Alan wrote:

> On 2021-12-12 11:25 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > Martin Harran wrote:
> >
> >>On 12 Dec 2021 16:38:46 GMT, Sir Tim <no_email@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
> > >
> >>>build <buildy@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 2:37:00 AM UTC+11, Bigbird
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > geoff wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Have to be:
> > > > > > > - VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first
> > > > > > > lap (note
> >>his >>>> trajectory).
> > > > > > It was certainly a very hard block pass that required
> > > > > > Hamilton to
> >>take >>> avoiding action.
> > > > > > > - PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER,
> > > > > > > holding up
> >>HAM. >>>> - GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting or not.
> > > > > > > - LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
> > > > > > > - MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity
> > > > > > > to
> >>'win' on >>>> his new soft tyres.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > This is why it feels such a wrong decision.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To not follow the regs in a way that actually reverses the
> > > > > > likely outcome pre safety car leaves a bad taste. It is not
> > > > > > unusual for
> >>a SC >>> to determine the outcome of the race but in this instance
> it >>was the >>> Race Director that determined the winner.
> > > > >
> > > > > The best man won but don't worry Merc will be bad losers and
> > > > > play
> >>a victim card. >> They just need to pick the card.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Horner, Marko and Verstappen have been playing the “victim
> > > > card” all season. In this instance Mercedes don’t need to play
> > > > a card because they are victims - victims of Masi’s illegal
> > > > decision to effectively award the race to Max.
> > > >
> > > > It’s a sad situation for both drivers, either of whom would
> > > > thoroughly have deserved the championship, but especially for
> > > > Max whose win will always be tainted.
> > >
> > > I agree. I can understand Masi wanting to allow them to "go
> > > racing" but he should have left the lapped cars behind the safety
> > > car which would have been within the regulations but still
> > > allowed Verstappen a half-chance which was just about what he
> > > deserved.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Masi should go.
> > >
> > > I agree though not just because of this decision - everyone is
> > > entitled to a mistake under pressure albeit this was a pretty big
> > > one.
> >
> > If he did not realise he was handing the championship to Max then
> > he is probably not the man for the job.
>
> He let the two contenders race to the end.
>

You understand NOTHING about the race. You should perhaps shut up. You
have done nothing but make a fool of yourself lately.

> Mercedes could have pitted Hamilton for a set of softs.

No, they couldn't.

Do you need it explaining?

>
> They chose not to.

Correct.

--
Bozo bin
Build
Texasgate
Enjoy!

Alan wrote:

> On 2021-12-12 9:24 a.m., Martin Harran wrote:
> >On 12 Dec 2021 16:38:46 GMT, Sir Tim <no_email@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
> >
> >>build <buildy@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 2:37:00 AM UTC+11, Bigbird
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > geoff wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Have to be:
> > > > > > - VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first lap
> > > > > > (note his trajectory).
> > > > > It was certainly a very hard block pass that required
> > > > > Hamilton to take avoiding action.
> > > > > > - PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER, holding
> > > > > > up HAM. - GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting
> > > > > > or not. - LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
> > > > > > - MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity to
> > > > > > 'win' on his new soft tyres.
> > > > > >
> > > > > This is why it feels such a wrong decision.
> > > > >
> > > > > To not follow the regs in a way that actually reverses the
> > > > > likely outcome pre safety car leaves a bad taste. It is not
> > > > > unusual for a SC to determine the outcome of the race but in
> > > > > this instance it was the Race Director that determined the
> > > > > winner.
> > > >
> > > > The best man won but don't worry Merc will be bad losers and
> > > > play a victim card. They just need to pick the card.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Horner, Marko and Verstappen have been playing the “victim card”
> > > all season. In this instance Mercedes don’t need to play a card
> > > because they *are* victims - victims of Masi’s illegal decision
> > > to effectively award the race to Max.
> > >
> > > It’s a sad situation for both drivers, either of whom would
> > > thoroughly have deserved the championship, but especially for Max
> > > whose win will always be tainted.
> >
> > I agree. I can understand Masi wanting to allow them to "go racing"
> > but he should have left the lapped cars behind the safety car which
> > would have been within the regulations but still allowed Verstappen
> > a half-chance which was just about what he deserved.
>
> Which regulation do you claim Masi breached?

Read the threads.

--
Bozo bin
Build
Texasgate
Enjoy!

On 13/12/2021 12:44 pm, Alan wrote:
> On 2021-12-12 11:25 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>> Martin Harran wrote:
>>
>>> On 12 Dec 2021 16:38:46 GMT, Sir Tim <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> build <buildy@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 2:37:00 AM UTC+11, Bigbird wrote:
>>>>>> geoff wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have to be:
>>>>>>> - VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first lap (note
>>> his >>>> trajectory).
>>>>>> It was certainly a very hard block pass that required Hamilton to
>>> take >>> avoiding action.
>>>>>>> - PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER, holding up
>>> HAM.  >>>> - GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting or not.
>>>>>>> - LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
>>>>>>> - MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity to
>>> 'win' on >>>> his new soft tyres.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is why it feels such a wrong decision.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To not follow the regs in a way that actually reverses the likely
>>>>>> outcome pre safety car leaves a bad taste. It is not unusual for
>>> a SC >>> to determine the outcome of the race but in this instance it
>>> was the >>> Race Director that determined the winner.
>>>>>
>>>>> The best man won but don't worry Merc will be bad losers and play
>>> a victim card.  >> They just need to pick the card.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Horner, Marko and Verstappen have been playing the “victim card” all
>>>> season. In this instance Mercedes don’t need to play a card because
>>>> they *are* victims - victims of Masi’s illegal decision to
>>>> effectively award the race to Max.
>>>>
>>>> It’s a sad situation for both drivers, either of whom would
>>>> thoroughly have deserved the championship, but especially for Max
>>>> whose win will always be tainted.
>>>
>>> I agree. I can understand Masi wanting to allow them to  "go racing"
>>> but he should have left the lapped cars behind the safety car which
>>> would have been within the regulations but still allowed Verstappen a
>>> half-chance which was just about what he deserved.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Masi should go.
>>>
>>> I agree though not just because of this decision -  everyone is
>>> entitled to a mistake under pressure albeit this was a pretty big one.
>>
>> If he did not realise he was handing the championship to Max then he is
>> probably not the man for the job.
>
> He let the two contenders race to the end.
>
> Mercedes could have pitted Hamilton for a set of softs.
>
> They chose not to.

That would have gifted track position to VER.

geoff

On 13/12/2021 12:34 pm, Alan wrote:
> On 2021-12-12 7:21 a.m., geoff wrote:
>> Have to be:
>> - VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first lap (note his
>>    trajectory).
>
> Give it a rest.
>
> Hamilton came out of that exchange with a larger lead than he had and no...
>
> ...he did not give all the advantage he gained back.
>
>> - PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER, holding up HAM.
>
> It was utterly brilliant drivign.
>
>> - GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting or not.
>> - LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
>> - MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity to 'win' on
>> his new soft tyres.
>>
>> Hollow, and a travesty.
>
> You wouldn't say that about this if it hadn't been the last race of the
> year.
>
> Did the way it play out end up helping Verstappen? Of course. But there
> really was no choice.
>
> Masi (note the correct spelling) did what he could to allow the two
> drivers to race to the finish.
>
> Mercedes made their choices (twice!) not to pit for better tires because
> they wanted track position. They had their chances to make other choices.

Did what he could to ensure VER didn't have to pass 4 back-markers on
track, as HAM did have to prior.

geoff

On 2021-12-12 4:05 p.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2021-12-12 11:25 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>> Martin Harran wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12 Dec 2021 16:38:46 GMT, Sir Tim <no_email@invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> build <buildy@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 2:37:00 AM UTC+11, Bigbird
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> geoff wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Have to be:
>>>>>>>> - VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first
>>>>>>>> lap (note
>>>> his >>>> trajectory).
>>>>>>> It was certainly a very hard block pass that required
>>>>>>> Hamilton to
>>>> take >>> avoiding action.
>>>>>>>> - PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER,
>>>>>>>> holding up
>>>> HAM. >>>> - GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting or not.
>>>>>>>> - LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
>>>>>>>> - MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity
>>>>>>>> to
>>>> 'win' on >>>> his new soft tyres.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is why it feels such a wrong decision.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To not follow the regs in a way that actually reverses the
>>>>>>> likely outcome pre safety car leaves a bad taste. It is not
>>>>>>> unusual for
>>>> a SC >>> to determine the outcome of the race but in this instance
>> it >>was the >>> Race Director that determined the winner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The best man won but don't worry Merc will be bad losers and
>>>>>> play
>>>> a victim card. >> They just need to pick the card.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Horner, Marko and Verstappen have been playing the “victim
>>>>> card” all season. In this instance Mercedes don’t need to play
>>>>> a card because they are victims - victims of Masi’s illegal
>>>>> decision to effectively award the race to Max.
>>>>>
>>>>> It’s a sad situation for both drivers, either of whom would
>>>>> thoroughly have deserved the championship, but especially for
>>>>> Max whose win will always be tainted.
>>>>
>>>> I agree. I can understand Masi wanting to allow them to "go
>>>> racing" but he should have left the lapped cars behind the safety
>>>> car which would have been within the regulations but still
>>>> allowed Verstappen a half-chance which was just about what he
>>>> deserved.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Masi should go.
>>>>
>>>> I agree though not just because of this decision - everyone is
>>>> entitled to a mistake under pressure albeit this was a pretty big
>>>> one.
>>>
>>> If he did not realise he was handing the championship to Max then
>>> he is probably not the man for the job.
>>
>> He let the two contenders race to the end.
>>
>
> You understand NOTHING about the race. You should perhaps shut up. You
> have done nothing but make a fool of yourself lately.
>
>> Mercedes could have pitted Hamilton for a set of softs.
>
> No, they couldn't.

Yes. They could.

>
> Do you need it explaining?
>
>>
>> They chose not to.
>
> Correct.

You get that that completely contradicts your earlier "No, they
couldn't", right?

On 2021-12-12 4:18 p.m., geoff wrote:
> On 13/12/2021 12:44 pm, Alan wrote:
>> On 2021-12-12 11:25 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
>>> Martin Harran wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12 Dec 2021 16:38:46 GMT, Sir Tim <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> build <buildy@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 2:37:00 AM UTC+11, Bigbird wrote:
>>>>>>> geoff wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Have to be:
>>>>>>>> - VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first lap (note
>>>> his >>>> trajectory).
>>>>>>> It was certainly a very hard block pass that required Hamilton to
>>>> take >>> avoiding action.
>>>>>>>> - PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER, holding up
>>>> HAM.  >>>> - GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting or not.
>>>>>>>> - LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
>>>>>>>> - MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity to
>>>> 'win' on >>>> his new soft tyres.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is why it feels such a wrong decision.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To not follow the regs in a way that actually reverses the likely
>>>>>>> outcome pre safety car leaves a bad taste. It is not unusual for
>>>> a SC >>> to determine the outcome of the race but in this instance it
>>>> was the >>> Race Director that determined the winner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The best man won but don't worry Merc will be bad losers and play
>>>> a victim card.  >> They just need to pick the card.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Horner, Marko and Verstappen have been playing the “victim card” all
>>>>> season. In this instance Mercedes don’t need to play a card because
>>>>> they *are* victims - victims of Masi’s illegal decision to
>>>>> effectively award the race to Max.
>>>>>
>>>>> It’s a sad situation for both drivers, either of whom would
>>>>> thoroughly have deserved the championship, but especially for Max
>>>>> whose win will always be tainted.
>>>>
>>>> I agree. I can understand Masi wanting to allow them to  "go racing"
>>>> but he should have left the lapped cars behind the safety car which
>>>> would have been within the regulations but still allowed Verstappen a
>>>> half-chance which was just about what he deserved.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Masi should go.
>>>>
>>>> I agree though not just because of this decision -  everyone is
>>>> entitled to a mistake under pressure albeit this was a pretty big one.
>>>
>>> If he did not realise he was handing the championship to Max then he is
>>> probably not the man for the job.
>>
>> He let the two contenders race to the end.
>>
>> Mercedes could have pitted Hamilton for a set of softs.
>>
>> They chose not to.
>
> That would have gifted track position to VER.

Yup.

But Hamilton ended up with track position...

....and we saw how well that worked out.

On 2021-12-12 4:22 p.m., geoff wrote:
> On 13/12/2021 12:34 pm, Alan wrote:
>> On 2021-12-12 7:21 a.m., geoff wrote:
>>> Have to be:
>>> - VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first lap (note his
>>>    trajectory).
>>
>> Give it a rest.
>>
>> Hamilton came out of that exchange with a larger lead than he had and
>> no...
>>
>> ...he did not give all the advantage he gained back.
>>
>>> - PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER, holding up HAM.
>>
>> It was utterly brilliant drivign.
>>
>>> - GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting or not.
>>> - LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
>>> - MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity to 'win' on
>>> his new soft tyres.
>>>
>>> Hollow, and a travesty.
>>
>> You wouldn't say that about this if it hadn't been the last race of
>> the year.
>>
>> Did the way it play out end up helping Verstappen? Of course. But
>> there really was no choice.
>>
>> Masi (note the correct spelling) did what he could to allow the two
>> drivers to race to the finish.
>>
>> Mercedes made their choices (twice!) not to pit for better tires
>> because they wanted track position. They had their chances to make
>> other choices.
>
> Did what he could to ensure VER didn't have to pass 4 back-markers on
> track, as HAM did have to prior.

Luck of the draw.

Sometimes, when there's an incident, you gain an advantage, sometimes
your opponent does.

On 13/12/2021 6:48 am, Matt Larkin wrote:
> On Sunday, 12 December 2021 at 17:25:13 UTC, martin...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On 12 Dec 2021 16:38:46 GMT, Sir Tim <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> build <bui...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 2:37:00 AM UTC+11, Bigbird wrote:
>>>>> geoff wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Have to be:
>>>>>> - VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first lap (note his
>>>>>> trajectory).
>>>>> It was certainly a very hard block pass that required Hamilton to take
>>>>> avoiding action.
>>>>>> - PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER, holding up HAM.
>>>>>> - GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting or not.
>>>>>> - LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
>>>>>> - MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity to 'win' on
>>>>>> his new soft tyres.
>>>>>>
>>>>> This is why it feels such a wrong decision.
>>>>>
>>>>> To not follow the regs in a way that actually reverses the likely
>>>>> outcome pre safety car leaves a bad taste. It is not unusual for a SC
>>>>> to determine the outcome of the race but in this instance it was the
>>>>> Race Director that determined the winner.
>>>>
>>>> The best man won but don't worry Merc will be bad losers and play a victim card.
>>>> They just need to pick the card.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Horner, Marko and Verstappen have been playing the “victim card” all
>>> season. In this instance Mercedes don’t need to play a card because they
>>> *are* victims - victims of Masi’s illegal decision to effectively award the
>>> race to Max.
>>>
>>> It’s a sad situation for both drivers, either of whom would thoroughly have
>>> deserved the championship, but especially for Max whose win will always be
>>> tainted.
>> I agree. I can understand Masi wanting to allow them to "go racing"
>> but he should have left the lapped cars behind the safety car which
>> would have been within the regulations but still allowed Verstappen a
>> half-chance which was just about what he deserved.
>>
>>>
>>> Masi should go.
>>
>> I agree though not just because of this decision - everyone is
>> entitled to a mistake under pressure albeit this was a pretty big one.
>> What really annoys me, however, is how he seems open to being
>> influenced by principals shouting at him - last week's bartering with
>> Horner about what penalty Verstappen should get was ridiculous.
> Masi has been unlucky in that the only scenario where this became
> an issue is when the accident happened when it did.
>
> 3 laps earlier for the accident and the outcome would have been the
> same for Lewis / Max.
>
> 1 lap later and the SC would have definitely been out at the end of
> the race.

Because of the likely effect on the championship of a safety car at that point, if he wasn't
prepared to end the race under safety car he should have thrown a red flag.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

Alan <nope@nope.com> wrote:
> On 2021-12-12 8:38 a.m., Sir Tim wrote:
>> build <buildy@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 2:37:00 AM UTC+11, Bigbird wrote:
>>>> geoff wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Have to be:
>>>>> - VER for his cunning attempt to wipe out HAM on first lap (note his
>>>>> trajectory).
>>>> It was certainly a very hard block pass that required Hamilton to take
>>>> avoiding action.
>>>>> - PER for epic, if not extreme, assistance to VER, holding up HAM.
>>>>> - GIO for giving the P2 car the option of pitting or not.
>>>>> - LAT, for managing to prang when he did.
>>>>> - MASSEY for gifting VER 10 seconds, and the opportunity to 'win' on
>>>>> his new soft tyres.
>>>>>
>>>> This is why it feels such a wrong decision.
>>>>
>>>> To not follow the regs in a way that actually reverses the likely
>>>> outcome pre safety car leaves a bad taste. It is not unusual for a SC
>>>> to determine the outcome of the race but in this instance it was the
>>>> Race Director that determined the winner.
>>>
>>> The best man won but don't worry Merc will be bad losers and play a victim card.
>>> They just need to pick the card.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Horner, Marko and Verstappen have been playing the “victim card” all
>> season. In this instance Mercedes don’t need to play a card because they
>> *are* victims - victims of Masi’s illegal decision to effectively award the
>> race to Max.
>
> If the decision was "illegal"...
>
> ...then quote the regulation that it violates.

48.12

--
Sir Tim