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sport / rec.autos.sport.f1 / Re: "a general agreement"

SubjectAuthor
* "a general agreement"Alan
+* Re: "a general agreement"Mark
|`* Re: "a general agreement"alister
| +- Re: "a general agreement"geoff
| `* Re: "a general agreement"Alan
|  +- Re: "a general agreement"geoff
|  +* Re: "a general agreement"Matt Larkin
|  |`* Re: "a general agreement"Alan
|  | `- Re: "a general agreement"Bigbird
|  `* Re: "a general agreement"Bigbird
|   `* Re: "a general agreement"Alan
|    +- Re: "a general agreement"texas gate
|    `- Re: "a general agreement"Bigbird
+- Re: "a general agreement"Bigbird
`* Re: "a general agreement"Bigbird
 `* Re: "a general agreement"Alan
  `- Re: "a general agreement"Bigbird

1
"a general agreement"

<spamsf$u46$1@dont-email.me>

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From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: "a general agreement"
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2021 10:13:32 -0800
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 by: Alan - Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:13 UTC

'In the last couple of years there has been a general agreement with the
teams that the Race Director should always endeavour to have the race
ending under green flag conditions, even if only for a lap or two, as at
Baku earlier this year.'

<https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.unpicking-the-safety-car-period-that-turned-the-abu-dhabi-grand-prix-on-its.7rTWOXxJ5lpvg38nrCYfM3.html>

'In this situation, that would have been impossible to achieve if normal
sporting regulation protocol was followed. By Lap 56, with two laps to
go, the scene was close to being cleared. In this situation, lapped cars
are usually allowed to unlap themselves and the Safety Car then pits at
the end of the following lap, giving those cars the chance to join the
back of the pack before the race becomes live. But there wasn’t time to
do that. This would have seen the Safety Car peeling off into the pit
lane one corner from the chequered flag.'

I'll find the additional reference if you want (I think it was Chain
Bear who reported it), but there was apparently a specific agreement
between the teams and the race director that any safety car period that
came out near the end of the race would be ended as quickly as possible.

Re: "a general agreement"

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From: mpco...@gmail.com (Mark)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: "a general agreement"
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:35:55 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Mark - Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:35 UTC

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
> 'In the last couple of years there has been a general agreement with the
> teams that the Race Director should always endeavour to have the race
> ending under green flag conditions, even if only for a lap or two, as at
> Baku earlier this year.'
>
> <https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.unpicking-the-safety-car-period-that-turned-the-abu-dhabi-grand-prix-on-its.7rTWOXxJ5lpvg38nrCYfM3.html>
>
> 'In this situation, that would have been impossible to achieve if normal
> sporting regulation protocol was followed. By Lap 56, with two laps to
> go, the scene was close to being cleared. In this situation, lapped cars
> are usually allowed to unlap themselves and the Safety Car then pits at
> the end of the following lap, giving those cars the chance to join the
> back of the pack before the race becomes live. But there wasn?t time to
> do that. This would have seen the Safety Car peeling off into the pit
> lane one corner from the chequered flag.'

Baku was a very different situation in any case.

> I'll find the additional reference if you want (I think it was Chain
> Bear who reported it), but there was apparently a specific agreement
> between the teams and the race director that any safety car period that
> came out near the end of the race would be ended as quickly as possible.

You mean by calling the SC in as quickly as possible and not requiring
any backmarker to unlap themselves?

Re: "a general agreement"

<xn0n6mm7x213uar000@news.eternal-september.org>

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From: bigbird....@gmail.com (Bigbird)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: "a general agreement"
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2021 19:31:59 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Bigbird - Tue, 14 Dec 2021 19:31 UTC

Alan wrote:

> 'In this situation, that would have been impossible to achieve if
> normal sporting regulation protocol was followed.

That's all that needs to be said.

--
Bozo bin
Build
Texasgate
Enjoy!

Re: "a general agreement"

<spb1gt$16u3$2@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: alister....@ntlworld.com (alister)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: "a general agreement"
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2021 21:15:09 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: alister - Tue, 14 Dec 2021 21:15 UTC

On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:35:55 -0000 (UTC), Mark wrote:
>
> Baku was a very different situation in any case.
>
Baku was indeed different & in my opinin Pivotal in deciding the
championship
Redbull called for the red flag - claiming it was an indicator the tyres
were not safe, but I have no doubt that they were hoping their would be no
restart & Max would get the win on count back.

Lewis then stuffed up his start, Without that error he would almost
certainly been at least 18 points ahead of Max & the FIAsco Sunday would
have made no difference.

It was that error even more than Masi's error Sunday that cost him the
championship.

(This does not alter my opinion that Masi was wrong & needs to resign)

--
Failure to adjust for daylight savings time.

Re: "a general agreement"

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 by: geoff - Tue, 14 Dec 2021 22:14 UTC

On 15/12/2021 10:15 am, alister wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:35:55 -0000 (UTC), Mark wrote:
>>
>> Baku was a very different situation in any case.
>>
> Baku was indeed different & in my opinin Pivotal in deciding the
> championship
> Redbull called for the red flag - claiming it was an indicator the tyres
> were not safe, but I have no doubt that they were hoping their would be no
> restart & Max would get the win on count back.
>
> Lewis then stuffed up his start, Without that error he would almost
> certainly been at least 18 points ahead of Max & the FIAsco Sunday would
> have made no difference.
>
> It was that error even more than Masi's error Sunday that cost him the
> championship.
>
> (This does not alter my opinion that Masi was wrong & needs to resign)
>

Agreed. HAM (or VER, or whoever) could have won all races this year, and
this one would still have been wrong !

geoff

Re: "a general agreement"

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From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: "a general agreement"
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2021 14:36:53 -0800
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 by: Alan - Tue, 14 Dec 2021 22:36 UTC

On 2021-12-14 1:15 p.m., alister wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:35:55 -0000 (UTC), Mark wrote:
>>
>> Baku was a very different situation in any case.
>>
> Baku was indeed different & in my opinin Pivotal in deciding the
> championship
> Redbull called for the red flag - claiming it was an indicator the tyres
> were not safe, but I have no doubt that they were hoping their would be no
> restart & Max would get the win on count back.
>
> Lewis then stuffed up his start, Without that error he would almost
> certainly been at least 18 points ahead of Max & the FIAsco Sunday would
> have made no difference.
>
> It was that error even more than Masi's error Sunday that cost him the
> championship.
>
> (This does not alter my opinion that Masi was wrong & needs to resign)
>

Why is it people never get that Masi's real job is to let you get angry
at him rather than at the FIA and (maybe) Liberty?

Masi did not make that call on his own; you can absolutely count on that.

Re: "a general agreement"

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 by: geoff - Tue, 14 Dec 2021 23:46 UTC

On 15/12/2021 11:36 am, Alan wrote:
> On 2021-12-14 1:15 p.m., alister wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:35:55 -0000 (UTC), Mark wrote:
>>>
>>> Baku was a very different situation in any case.
>>>
>> Baku was indeed different & in my opinin Pivotal in deciding the
>> championship
>> Redbull called for the red flag - claiming it was an indicator the tyres
>> were not safe, but I have no doubt that they were hoping their would
>> be no
>> restart & Max would get the win on count back.
>>
>> Lewis then stuffed up his start, Without that error he would almost
>> certainly been at least 18 points ahead of Max & the FIAsco Sunday would
>> have made no difference.
>>
>> It was that error even more than Masi's error Sunday that cost him the
>> championship.
>>
>> (This does not alter my opinion that Masi was wrong & needs to resign)
>>
>
> Why is it people never get that Masi's real job is to let you get angry
> at him rather than at the FIA and (maybe) Liberty?
>
> Masi did not make that call on his own; you can absolutely count on that.

And if anybody other than FIA was corrupt and should resign.

geoff

Re: "a general agreement"

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Subject: Re: "a general agreement"
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 by: Matt Larkin - Wed, 15 Dec 2021 06:13 UTC

On Tuesday, 14 December 2021 at 22:36:57 UTC, Alan wrote:
> On 2021-12-14 1:15 p.m., alister wrote:
> > On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:35:55 -0000 (UTC), Mark wrote:
> >>
> >> Baku was a very different situation in any case.
> >>
> > Baku was indeed different & in my opinin Pivotal in deciding the
> > championship
> > Redbull called for the red flag - claiming it was an indicator the tyres
> > were not safe, but I have no doubt that they were hoping their would be no
> > restart & Max would get the win on count back.
> >
> > Lewis then stuffed up his start, Without that error he would almost
> > certainly been at least 18 points ahead of Max & the FIAsco Sunday would
> > have made no difference.
> >
> > It was that error even more than Masi's error Sunday that cost him the
> > championship.
> >
> > (This does not alter my opinion that Masi was wrong & needs to resign)
> >
> Why is it people never get that Masi's real job is to let you get angry
> at him rather than at the FIA and (maybe) Liberty?
>
> Masi did not make that call on his own; you can absolutely count on that.
So who do you think did? Is there a Board of Liberty sitting in there with
a marketing "ace" who "runs the numbers" and says "Hey guys, this will run
well on the socials if you bring in the SC now".

I don't doubt that Masi is influenced in his approach by the commercial
rights holders etc; it's an overriding factor for him no doubt.

But I think you can *absolutely count on* the fact that the decisions taken
during the race in those final laps were taken only by the RD with the
steward and clerk of the course team.

Thereafter, in the retrospective interpretation of the rules that was applied
following Mercs protests, I can buy that there was more direct influence
from Liberty et al; there was at the very least time for that to happen.

But during the race? Nah, cloud cookoo land.

Re: "a general agreement"

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 by: Bigbird - Wed, 15 Dec 2021 11:04 UTC

Alan wrote:

> On 2021-12-14 1:15 p.m., alister wrote:
> > On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:35:55 -0000 (UTC), Mark wrote:
> > >
> > > Baku was a very different situation in any case.
> > >
> > Baku was indeed different & in my opinin Pivotal in deciding the
> > championship
> > Redbull called for the red flag - claiming it was an indicator the
> > tyres were not safe, but I have no doubt that they were hoping
> > their would be no restart & Max would get the win on count back.
> >
> > Lewis then stuffed up his start, Without that error he would almost
> > certainly been at least 18 points ahead of Max & the FIAsco Sunday
> > would have made no difference.
> >
> > It was that error even more than Masi's error Sunday that cost him
> > the championship.
> >
> > (This does not alter my opinion that Masi was wrong & needs to
> > resign)
> >
>
> Why is it people never get that Masi's real job is to let you get
> angry at him rather than at the FIA and (maybe) Liberty?

Fuckwit. His job is so many things other than that.
He is the FIA. It is his job to police the FIA regulations.

>
> Masi did not make that call on his own; you can absolutely count on
> that.

Certainly he may have been under pressures generally. If he is being
strongly influenced in his decision process by Liberty it is all the
more reason that he should be replaced by someone with more integrity.

As for claiming he did not make the call without direct interference
from either other party, while highly unlikely, it would go further to
demonstrate why the decision lacked integrity and equity.

Though it lacks any basis in fact, you have made a, somewhat flaccid,
case that he is definitely not fit for the job had it any substance.
--
Bozo bin
Build
Texasgate
Enjoy!

Re: "a general agreement"

<xn0n6nw973af0g5000@news.eternal-september.org>

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Subject: Re: "a general agreement"
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2021 16:40:23 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Bigbird - Wed, 15 Dec 2021 16:40 UTC

Alan wrote:

> I'll find the additional reference if you want (I think it was Chain
> Bear who reported it), but there was apparently a specific agreement
> between the teams and the race director that any safety car period
> that came out near the end of the race would be ended as quickly as
> possible.

Go for it. If it says guys, "forget the regs let's go racing" you
finally have a point.

Anything short of that and you are just wasting everyone's time again.

--
Bozo bin
Build
Texasgate
Enjoy!

Re: "a general agreement"

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From: nop...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: "a general agreement"
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2021 19:28:32 -0500
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 by: Alan - Thu, 16 Dec 2021 00:28 UTC

On 2021-12-15 1:13 a.m., Matt Larkin wrote:
> On Tuesday, 14 December 2021 at 22:36:57 UTC, Alan wrote:
>> On 2021-12-14 1:15 p.m., alister wrote:
>>> On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:35:55 -0000 (UTC), Mark wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Baku was a very different situation in any case.
>>>>
>>> Baku was indeed different & in my opinin Pivotal in deciding the
>>> championship
>>> Redbull called for the red flag - claiming it was an indicator the tyres
>>> were not safe, but I have no doubt that they were hoping their would be no
>>> restart & Max would get the win on count back.
>>>
>>> Lewis then stuffed up his start, Without that error he would almost
>>> certainly been at least 18 points ahead of Max & the FIAsco Sunday would
>>> have made no difference.
>>>
>>> It was that error even more than Masi's error Sunday that cost him the
>>> championship.
>>>
>>> (This does not alter my opinion that Masi was wrong & needs to resign)
>>>
>> Why is it people never get that Masi's real job is to let you get angry
>> at him rather than at the FIA and (maybe) Liberty?
>>
>> Masi did not make that call on his own; you can absolutely count on that.
> So who do you think did? Is there a Board of Liberty sitting in there with
> a marketing "ace" who "runs the numbers" and says "Hey guys, this will run
> well on the socials if you bring in the SC now".

Nope. I think that Liberty talked to the FIA about what they would want
and that the FIA communicated that to Masi...

....before the race ever started.

>
> I don't doubt that Masi is influenced in his approach by the commercial
> rights holders etc; it's an overriding factor for him no doubt.
>
> But I think you can *absolutely count on* the fact that the decisions taken
> during the race in those final laps were taken only by the RD with the
> steward and clerk of the course team.

Following discussions with the FIA and the teams prior to event
starting, yes.

>
> Thereafter, in the retrospective interpretation of the rules that was applied
> following Mercs protests, I can buy that there was more direct influence
> from Liberty et al; there was at the very least time for that to happen.
>
> But during the race? Nah, cloud cookoo land.

"Make sure the race doesn't end behind the safety car and if at all
possible, with Hamilton and Verstappen fighting for the win all the way
to the end."

Something like that could have been said immediately after Saudi Arabia.

Re: "a general agreement"

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From: nop...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: "a general agreement"
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2021 19:30:26 -0500
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 by: Alan - Thu, 16 Dec 2021 00:30 UTC

On 2021-12-15 6:04 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
>> On 2021-12-14 1:15 p.m., alister wrote:
>>> On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:35:55 -0000 (UTC), Mark wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Baku was a very different situation in any case.
>>>>
>>> Baku was indeed different & in my opinin Pivotal in deciding the
>>> championship
>>> Redbull called for the red flag - claiming it was an indicator the
>>> tyres were not safe, but I have no doubt that they were hoping
>>> their would be no restart & Max would get the win on count back.
>>>
>>> Lewis then stuffed up his start, Without that error he would almost
>>> certainly been at least 18 points ahead of Max & the FIAsco Sunday
>>> would have made no difference.
>>>
>>> It was that error even more than Masi's error Sunday that cost him
>>> the championship.
>>>
>>> (This does not alter my opinion that Masi was wrong & needs to
>>> resign)
>>>
>>
>> Why is it people never get that Masi's real job is to let you get
>> angry at him rather than at the FIA and (maybe) Liberty?
>
> Fuckwit. His job is so many things other than that.
> He is the FIA. It is his job to police the FIA regulations.

So he has no one to who he reports, does he?

Interesting.

>
>>
>> Masi did not make that call on his own; you can absolutely count on
>> that.
>
> Certainly he may have been under pressures generally. If he is being
> strongly influenced in his decision process by Liberty it is all the
> more reason that he should be replaced by someone with more integrity.

You are utterly missing the point.

>
> As for claiming he did not make the call without direct interference
> from either other party, while highly unlikely, it would go further to
> demonstrate why the decision lacked integrity and equity.

I didn't claim there was "direct" interference.

I believe that he would have been told what his bosses would prefer to
have happen before it ever actually came up in the race; before the race
ever started in fact.

>
> Though it lacks any basis in fact, you have made a, somewhat flaccid,
> case that he is definitely not fit for the job had it any substance.

And you think they'll hire someone who isn't "flaccid", do you?

Interesting.

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From: nop...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: "a general agreement"
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2021 19:39:00 -0500
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 by: Alan - Thu, 16 Dec 2021 00:39 UTC

On 2021-12-15 11:40 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
>> I'll find the additional reference if you want (I think it was Chain
>> Bear who reported it), but there was apparently a specific agreement
>> between the teams and the race director that any safety car period
>> that came out near the end of the race would be ended as quickly as
>> possible.
>
> Go for it. If it says guys, "forget the regs let's go racing" you
> finally have a point.
>
> Anything short of that and you are just wasting everyone's time again.

I was saying I can find the references to the existence of such an
agreement, specifically made for this race, and that a part of the
agreement was that any safety car period toward the end of the race
should end as quickly as possible.

Unlike you, I don't pretend to know things I don't know, so I'll tell
you that I don't have access to the text of this agreement.

'Masi gave evidence to the stewards, saying that the purpose of Article
48.12 was to remove lapped cars that would interfere with the leaders —
in this case Hamilton and Verstappen.

He also said that teams had agreed that it was “highly desirable for the
race to end in a ‘green’ condition (i.e. not under a safety car).”'

<https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/the-safety-car-regulations-that-michael-masi-ignored-to-go-racing-at-the-end-of-abu-dhabi-gp>

'But Masi decided to give those two cars a 70-second head start on
Verstappen and Ricciardo. The motivation behind this was to ensure the
race concluded with a green flag lap, an outcome Masi later said the
teams had previously agreed was “highly desirable”.'

<https://www.racefans.net/2021/12/14/analysis-the-four-minutes-that-changed-the-destiny-of-the-2021-world-championship/>

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Subject: Re: "a general agreement"
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 by: texas gate - Thu, 16 Dec 2021 03:38 UTC

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 5:30:28 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:

> Interesting.

> Interesting.

small things amuse small minds

Re: "a general agreement"

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Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: "a general agreement"
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2021 07:46:10 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Bigbird - Thu, 16 Dec 2021 07:46 UTC

Alan wrote:

> On 2021-12-15 6:04 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > Alan wrote:
> >
> > > On 2021-12-14 1:15 p.m., alister wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:35:55 -0000 (UTC), Mark wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Baku was a very different situation in any case.
> > > > >
> > > > Baku was indeed different & in my opinin Pivotal in deciding the
> > > > championship
> > > > Redbull called for the red flag - claiming it was an indicator
> > > > the tyres were not safe, but I have no doubt that they were
> > > > hoping their would be no restart & Max would get the win on
> > > > count back.
> > > >
> > > > Lewis then stuffed up his start, Without that error he would
> > > > almost certainly been at least 18 points ahead of Max & the
> > > > FIAsco Sunday would have made no difference.
> > > >
> > > > It was that error even more than Masi's error Sunday that cost
> > > > him the championship.
> > > >
> > > > (This does not alter my opinion that Masi was wrong & needs to
> > > > resign)
> > > >
> > >
> > > Why is it people never get that Masi's real job is to let you get
> > > angry at him rather than at the FIA and (maybe) Liberty?
> >
> > Fuckwit. His job is so many things other than that.
> > He is the FIA. It is his job to police the FIA regulations.
>
> So he has no one to who he reports, does he?
>

How do you come to such an idiotic conclusion?

> Interesting.
>
> >
> > >
> > > Masi did not make that call on his own; you can absolutely count
> > > on that.
> >
> > Certainly he may have been under pressures generally. If he is being
> > strongly influenced in his decision process by Liberty it is all the
> > more reason that he should be replaced by someone with more
> > integrity.
>
> You are utterly missing the point.

Sure. Yet you choose not to clarify; maybe because you don't have one.

>
> >
> > As for claiming he did not make the call without direct interference
> > from either other party, while highly unlikely, it would go further
> > to demonstrate why the decision lacked integrity and equity.
>
> I didn't claim there was "direct" interference.
>
> I believe that he would have been told what his bosses would prefer
> to have happen before it ever actually came up in the race; before
> the race ever started in fact.
>
> >
> > Though it lacks any basis in fact, you have made a, somewhat
> > flaccid, case that he is definitely not fit for the job had it any
> > substance.
>
> And you think they'll hire someone who isn't "flaccid", do you?
>

You're implying that you think they deliberately would not.

CW was a stand up man.

> Interesting.

You are continually finding your own flaccid inferences interesting.

--
Bozo bin
Build
Texasgate
Enjoy!

Re: "a general agreement"

<xn0n6p0n973h26005@news.eternal-september.org>

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Subject: Re: "a general agreement"
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 by: Bigbird - Thu, 16 Dec 2021 10:12 UTC

Alan wrote:

> On 2021-12-15 11:40 a.m., Bigbird wrote:
> > Alan wrote:
> >
> > > I'll find the additional reference if you want (I think it was
> > > Chain Bear who reported it), but there was apparently a specific
> > > agreement between the teams and the race director that any safety
> > > car period that came out near the end of the race would be ended
> > > as quickly as possible.
> >
> > Go for it. If it says guys, "forget the regs let's go racing" you
> > finally have a point.
> >
> > Anything short of that and you are just wasting everyone's time
> > again.
>
>
> I was saying I can find the references to the existence of such an
> agreement, specifically made for this race, and that a part of the
> agreement was that any safety car period toward the end of the race
> should end as quickly as possible.
>
> Unlike you, I don't pretend to know things I don't know, so I'll tell
> you that I don't have access to the text of this agreement.
>
> 'Masi gave evidence to the stewards, saying that the purpose of
> Article 48.12 was to remove lapped cars that would interfere with the
> leaders — in this case Hamilton and Verstappen.
>
> He also said that teams had agreed that it was “highly desirable for
> the race to end in a ‘green’ condition (i.e. not under a safety
> car).”'
>
>
<https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/the-safety-car-regulations-that-michael-masi-ignored-to-go-racing-at-the-end-of-abu-dhabi-gp>
>
> 'But Masi decided to give those two cars a 70-second head start on
> Verstappen and Ricciardo. The motivation behind this was to ensure
> the race concluded with a green flag lap, an outcome Masi later said
> the teams had previously agreed was “highly desirable”.'
>
>
<https://www.racefans.net/2021/12/14/analysis-the-four-minutes-that-changed-the-destiny-of-the-2021-world-championship/>

So you think that agreeing that it was desirable to finish under a
green light green lit him to throw the regulations out the window. More
that delays were minimised where possible. For instance in repairing or
reinstating a barrier.

If anything it might give him a little lee way towards the red flag
scenario that a number of people seem to think would have been more
equitable and fulfilled the desire for a dramatic finish.

That is one hell of a stretch.
Whenever has it not been "highly desirable" for any race to finish
under a green light?
I am pretty sure they also thought it was "highly desirable" not to
have the championship decided in the stewards room but that should not
mean that the drivers could ignore the regulations, should it?
You are asking a very weak phrase to do an awful lot of heavy lifting.

Your "specific" "general agreement" is ephemeral.

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Re: "a general agreement"

<xn0n6p0py77d55006@news.eternal-september.org>

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Subject: Re: "a general agreement"
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 by: Bigbird - Thu, 16 Dec 2021 10:15 UTC

Alan wrote:

> On 2021-12-15 1:13 a.m., Matt Larkin wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 14 December 2021 at 22:36:57 UTC, Alan wrote:
> > > On 2021-12-14 1:15 p.m., alister wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 18:35:55 -0000 (UTC), Mark wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Baku was a very different situation in any case.
> > > > >
> > > > Baku was indeed different & in my opinin Pivotal in deciding the
> > > > championship
> > > > Redbull called for the red flag - claiming it was an indicator
> > > > the tyres were not safe, but I have no doubt that they were
> > > > hoping their would be no restart & Max would get the win on
> > > > count back.
> > > >
> > > > Lewis then stuffed up his start, Without that error he would
> > > > almost certainly been at least 18 points ahead of Max & the
> > > > FIAsco Sunday would have made no difference.
> > > >
> > > > It was that error even more than Masi's error Sunday that cost
> > > > him the championship.
> > > >
> > > > (This does not alter my opinion that Masi was wrong & needs to
> > > > resign)
> > > >
> > > Why is it people never get that Masi's real job is to let you get
> > > angry at him rather than at the FIA and (maybe) Liberty?
> > >
> > > Masi did not make that call on his own; you can absolutely count
> > > on that.
> > So who do you think did? Is there a Board of Liberty sitting in
> > there with a marketing "ace" who "runs the numbers" and says "Hey
> > guys, this will run well on the socials if you bring in the SC now".
>
> Nope. I think that Liberty talked to the FIA about what they would
> want and that the FIA communicated that to Masi...
>
> ...before the race ever started.
>
> >
> > I don't doubt that Masi is influenced in his approach by the
> > commercial rights holders etc; it's an overriding factor for him no
> > doubt.
> >
> > But I think you can *absolutely count on* the fact that the
> > decisions taken during the race in those final laps were taken only
> > by the RD with the steward and clerk of the course team.
>
> Following discussions with the FIA and the teams prior to event
> starting, yes.
>
> >
> > Thereafter, in the retrospective interpretation of the rules that
> > was applied following Mercs protests, I can buy that there was more
> > direct influence from Liberty et al; there was at the very least
> > time for that to happen.
> >
> > But during the race? Nah, cloud cookoo land.
>
> "Make sure the race doesn't end behind the safety car and if at all
> possible, with Hamilton and Verstappen fighting for the win all the
> way to the end."
>
> Something like that could have been said immediately after Saudi
> Arabia.

You have absolutely no way of knowing what was said but you can be sure
they did not green light blatantly ignoring the regulations. Any such
discussion should have had no bearing of the RD's implementation of the
SC procedure.

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