England now have 6 different EC winners from 5 cities. Next after them in this respect are Germany and Holland with 3 teams from 3 cities each. Italy has also 3 teams (and more trophies) but from just 2 cities.
(This is of course judging by official results, no matter how the Cups were obtained.)
Of course, the country with most trophies is still Spain, by far.

City is the first newcomer to win the EC since Chelsea 2012. Before that, the last newcomer was, if I'm not mistaken, Borussia Dortmund way back in 97.

After Borussia, all winners were big-money teams, with the partial exception of Porto 2004, which are no beggars themselves but cannot compare with the others. Money talks in football no doubt.
BTW, did City spend more than other teams like Real, Chelsea, Liverpool to name just a few ? Let's take a timeframe of the last 7 years, since they brought in Pep. How does their spending compare with others ?

On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 3:24:06 AM UTC-4, FF wrote:
> England now have 6 different EC winners from 5 cities. Next after them in this respect are Germany and Holland with 3 teams from 3 cities each. Italy has also 3 teams (and more trophies) but from just 2 cities.
> (This is of course judging by official results, no matter how the Cups were obtained.)
> Of course, the country with most trophies is still Spain, by far.
>
> City is the first newcomer to win the EC since Chelsea 2012. Before that, the last newcomer was, if I'm not mistaken, Borussia Dortmund way back in 97.
>
> After Borussia, all winners were big-money teams, with the partial exception of Porto 2004, which are no beggars themselves but cannot compare with the others. Money talks in football no doubt.
> BTW, did City spend more than other teams like Real, Chelsea, Liverpool to name just a few ? Let's take a timeframe of the last 7 years, since they brought in Pep. How does their spending compare with others ?

https://www.si.com/fannation/soccer/futbol/news/man-utd-city-and-psg-spend-over-1b-net-on-transfers-in-10-years

Man Utd, Man City, and PSG are most guilty of throwing silly money at everything (with drastically different results, of course).

On the other hand you have brilliantly run clubs like Liverpool and Bayern, who punch way above their financials outlays.

On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 8:24:06 AM UTC+1, FF wrote:
> England now have 6 different EC winners from 5 cities. Next after them in this respect are Germany and Holland with 3 teams from 3 cities each. Italy has also 3 teams (and more trophies) but from just 2 cities.
> (This is of course judging by official results, no matter how the Cups were obtained.)
> Of course, the country with most trophies is still Spain, by far.
>
> City is the first newcomer to win the EC since Chelsea 2012.

And of course, what Chelsea and Man City have in common is they each had their status artificially boosted by cash injections from very wealthy new owners.

If it took 11 years for a new team to win the Champions League then it suggests the later stages of the competition are a "Super League" in all but name. May as well stop pretending and make it official now.

RM

On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 9:14:29 AM UTC-7, Real Mardin wrote:
> On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 8:24:06 AM UTC+1, FF wrote:
> > England now have 6 different EC winners from 5 cities. Next after them in this respect are Germany and Holland with 3 teams from 3 cities each. Italy has also 3 teams (and more trophies) but from just 2 cities.
> > (This is of course judging by official results, no matter how the Cups were obtained.)
> > Of course, the country with most trophies is still Spain, by far.
> >
> > City is the first newcomer to win the EC since Chelsea 2012.
> And of course, what Chelsea and Man City have in common is they each had their status artificially boosted by cash injections from very wealthy new owners.
>
> If it took 11 years for a new team to win the Champions League then it suggests the later stages of the competition are a "Super League" in all but name. May as well stop pretending and make it official now.

That's what the teams involved in the breakaway want.

Mike

On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 4:06:32 PM UTC+3, Al Kamista wrote:
> On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 3:24:06 AM UTC-4, FF wrote:
> > England now have 6 different EC winners from 5 cities. Next after them in this respect are Germany and Holland with 3 teams from 3 cities each. Italy has also 3 teams (and more trophies) but from just 2 cities.
> > (This is of course judging by official results, no matter how the Cups were obtained.)
> > Of course, the country with most trophies is still Spain, by far.
> >
> > City is the first newcomer to win the EC since Chelsea 2012. Before that, the last newcomer was, if I'm not mistaken, Borussia Dortmund way back in 97.
> >
> > After Borussia, all winners were big-money teams, with the partial exception of Porto 2004, which are no beggars themselves but cannot compare with the others. Money talks in football no doubt.
> > BTW, did City spend more than other teams like Real, Chelsea, Liverpool to name just a few ? Let's take a timeframe of the last 7 years, since they brought in Pep. How does their spending compare with others ?
> https://www.si.com/fannation/soccer/futbol/news/man-utd-city-and-psg-spend-over-1b-net-on-transfers-in-10-years
>
> Man Utd, Man City, and PSG are most guilty of throwing silly money at everything (with drastically different results, of course).

Thanks. I would have said it's a good page, except where's Real ? Are you telling me they're not in the first 20 big spenders ? Hard to believe. Must be a mistake somewhere.
Until we clear this up I don't know if I can trust it.

On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 4:51:25 AM UTC+3, FF wrote:
> On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 4:06:32 PM UTC+3, Al Kamista wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 3:24:06 AM UTC-4, FF wrote:
> > > England now have 6 different EC winners from 5 cities. Next after them in this respect are Germany and Holland with 3 teams from 3 cities each. Italy has also 3 teams (and more trophies) but from just 2 cities.
> > > (This is of course judging by official results, no matter how the Cups were obtained.)
> > > Of course, the country with most trophies is still Spain, by far.
> > >
> > > City is the first newcomer to win the EC since Chelsea 2012. Before that, the last newcomer was, if I'm not mistaken, Borussia Dortmund way back in 97.
> > >
> > > After Borussia, all winners were big-money teams, with the partial exception of Porto 2004, which are no beggars themselves but cannot compare with the others. Money talks in football no doubt.
> > > BTW, did City spend more than other teams like Real, Chelsea, Liverpool to name just a few ? Let's take a timeframe of the last 7 years, since they brought in Pep. How does their spending compare with others ?
> > https://www.si.com/fannation/soccer/futbol/news/man-utd-city-and-psg-spend-over-1b-net-on-transfers-in-10-years
> >
> > Man Utd, Man City, and PSG are most guilty of throwing silly money at everything (with drastically different results, of course).
> Thanks. I would have said it's a good page, except where's Real ? Are you telling me they're not in the first 20 big spenders ? Hard to believe. Must be a mistake somewhere.
> Until we clear this up I don't know if I can trust it.

OK, I did some searching myself.
It appears it's true. In this list Real is on position 31 with £131.4million. See

https://m.allfootballapp.com/news/La-Liga/The-50-clubs-in-world-football-with-the-biggest-net-spend-since-2012/2837220

I found similar things in other places also so it looks like this is how it is. All I can say is UNBELIEVABLE. Say what you want about him but if this is true, and it appears it is, the man is pure genius at running a football club.

On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 8:34:09 AM UTC+3, FF wrote:
> On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 4:51:25 AM UTC+3, FF wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 4:06:32 PM UTC+3, Al Kamista wrote:
> > > On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 3:24:06 AM UTC-4, FF wrote:
> > > > England now have 6 different EC winners from 5 cities. Next after them in this respect are Germany and Holland with 3 teams from 3 cities each.. Italy has also 3 teams (and more trophies) but from just 2 cities.
> > > > (This is of course judging by official results, no matter how the Cups were obtained.)
> > > > Of course, the country with most trophies is still Spain, by far.
> > > >
> > > > City is the first newcomer to win the EC since Chelsea 2012. Before that, the last newcomer was, if I'm not mistaken, Borussia Dortmund way back in 97.
> > > >
> > > > After Borussia, all winners were big-money teams, with the partial exception of Porto 2004, which are no beggars themselves but cannot compare with the others. Money talks in football no doubt.
> > > > BTW, did City spend more than other teams like Real, Chelsea, Liverpool to name just a few ? Let's take a timeframe of the last 7 years, since they brought in Pep. How does their spending compare with others ?
> > > https://www.si.com/fannation/soccer/futbol/news/man-utd-city-and-psg-spend-over-1b-net-on-transfers-in-10-years
> > >
> > > Man Utd, Man City, and PSG are most guilty of throwing silly money at everything (with drastically different results, of course).
> > Thanks. I would have said it's a good page, except where's Real ? Are you telling me they're not in the first 20 big spenders ? Hard to believe. Must be a mistake somewhere.
> > Until we clear this up I don't know if I can trust it.
> OK, I did some searching myself.
> It appears it's true. In this list Real is on position 31 with £131.4million. See
>
> https://m.allfootballapp.com/news/La-Liga/The-50-clubs-in-world-football-with-the-biggest-net-spend-since-2012/2837220
>
> I found similar things in other places also so it looks like this is how it is. All I can say is UNBELIEVABLE. Say what you want about him but if this is true, and it appears it is, the man is pure genius at running a football club.

I meant Perez of course.

On 2023-06-11 07:06, Al Kamista wrote:
> On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 3:24:06 AM UTC-4, FF wrote:
>> England now have 6 different EC winners from 5 cities. Next after them in this respect are Germany and Holland with 3 teams from 3 cities each. Italy has also 3 teams (and more trophies) but from just 2 cities.
>> (This is of course judging by official results, no matter how the Cups were obtained.)
>> Of course, the country with most trophies is still Spain, by far.
>>
>> City is the first newcomer to win the EC since Chelsea 2012. Before that, the last newcomer was, if I'm not mistaken, Borussia Dortmund way back in 97.
>>
>> After Borussia, all winners were big-money teams, with the partial exception of Porto 2004, which are no beggars themselves but cannot compare with the others. Money talks in football no doubt.
>> BTW, did City spend more than other teams like Real, Chelsea, Liverpool to name just a few ? Let's take a timeframe of the last 7 years, since they brought in Pep. How does their spending compare with others ?
>
> https://www.si.com/fannation/soccer/futbol/news/man-utd-city-and-psg-spend-over-1b-net-on-transfers-in-10-years
>
> Man Utd, Man City, and PSG are most guilty of throwing silly money at everything (with drastically different results, of course).
>
> On the other hand you have brilliantly run clubs like Liverpool and Bayern, who punch way above their financials outlays.

How accurate are those numbers? Why are Everton so high and Real Madrid
so astonishingly low? Don't recall Real selling that many players for
high prices to recoup their outlay on new ones.

On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 8:41:05 AM UTC+3, FF wrote:
> On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 8:34:09 AM UTC+3, FF wrote:
> > On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 4:51:25 AM UTC+3, FF wrote:
> > > On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 4:06:32 PM UTC+3, Al Kamista wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 3:24:06 AM UTC-4, FF wrote:
> > > > > England now have 6 different EC winners from 5 cities. Next after them in this respect are Germany and Holland with 3 teams from 3 cities each. Italy has also 3 teams (and more trophies) but from just 2 cities.
> > > > > (This is of course judging by official results, no matter how the Cups were obtained.)
> > > > > Of course, the country with most trophies is still Spain, by far.
> > > > >
> > > > > City is the first newcomer to win the EC since Chelsea 2012. Before that, the last newcomer was, if I'm not mistaken, Borussia Dortmund way back in 97.
> > > > >
> > > > > After Borussia, all winners were big-money teams, with the partial exception of Porto 2004, which are no beggars themselves but cannot compare with the others. Money talks in football no doubt.
> > > > > BTW, did City spend more than other teams like Real, Chelsea, Liverpool to name just a few ? Let's take a timeframe of the last 7 years, since they brought in Pep. How does their spending compare with others ?
> > > > https://www.si.com/fannation/soccer/futbol/news/man-utd-city-and-psg-spend-over-1b-net-on-transfers-in-10-years
> > > >
> > > > Man Utd, Man City, and PSG are most guilty of throwing silly money at everything (with drastically different results, of course).
> > > Thanks. I would have said it's a good page, except where's Real ? Are you telling me they're not in the first 20 big spenders ? Hard to believe. Must be a mistake somewhere.
> > > Until we clear this up I don't know if I can trust it.
> > OK, I did some searching myself.
> > It appears it's true. In this list Real is on position 31 with £131.4million. See
> >
> > https://m.allfootballapp.com/news/La-Liga/The-50-clubs-in-world-football-with-the-biggest-net-spend-since-2012/2837220
> >
> > I found similar things in other places also so it looks like this is how it is. All I can say is UNBELIEVABLE. Say what you want about him but if this is true, and it appears it is, the man is pure genius at running a football club.
> I meant Perez of course.

I've been thinking some more.
The 2 lists, mine and Alkamista's, have some discrepancies but are generally similar in their common part, that is places 1-20.

Looks like Real are by far the best run football club in the world, right ? 5 of the last 10 Cups, spending close to 0 compared to other clubs. Still find it hard to believe.
At the other end we have Man United. Spending over a billion with almost nothing to show for it. I understand the Glazers have apologized to the fans for this. They should. It used to be the best run club in the world in Ferguson's time.
Real payed 94 million Euros in 2009 for Ronaldo, and sold him 9 years later to Juve for a profit. And in the meantime he won them 4 Champions Leagues. Must be the best business ever done in football.

All this means of course that Real aren't in the business of buying trophies any more. They did it once, they even started it but right now, that is in the last 10 years or so, they're not doing it. They're the good guys, believe it or not.

> On the other hand you have brilliantly run clubs like Liverpool and Bayern, who punch way above their financials outlays.

Real is the first to be mentioned in this respect, as it seems.

On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 4:33:11 PM UTC+3, FF wrote:
> On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 8:41:05 AM UTC+3, FF wrote:
> > On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 8:34:09 AM UTC+3, FF wrote:
> > > On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 4:51:25 AM UTC+3, FF wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 4:06:32 PM UTC+3, Al Kamista wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 3:24:06 AM UTC-4, FF wrote:
> > > > > > England now have 6 different EC winners from 5 cities. Next after them in this respect are Germany and Holland with 3 teams from 3 cities each. Italy has also 3 teams (and more trophies) but from just 2 cities.
> > > > > > (This is of course judging by official results, no matter how the Cups were obtained.)
> > > > > > Of course, the country with most trophies is still Spain, by far.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > City is the first newcomer to win the EC since Chelsea 2012. Before that, the last newcomer was, if I'm not mistaken, Borussia Dortmund way back in 97.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > After Borussia, all winners were big-money teams, with the partial exception of Porto 2004, which are no beggars themselves but cannot compare with the others. Money talks in football no doubt.
> > > > > > BTW, did City spend more than other teams like Real, Chelsea, Liverpool to name just a few ? Let's take a timeframe of the last 7 years, since they brought in Pep. How does their spending compare with others ?
> > > > > https://www.si.com/fannation/soccer/futbol/news/man-utd-city-and-psg-spend-over-1b-net-on-transfers-in-10-years
> > > > >
> > > > > Man Utd, Man City, and PSG are most guilty of throwing silly money at everything (with drastically different results, of course).
> > > > Thanks. I would have said it's a good page, except where's Real ? Are you telling me they're not in the first 20 big spenders ? Hard to believe. Must be a mistake somewhere.
> > > > Until we clear this up I don't know if I can trust it.
> > > OK, I did some searching myself.
> > > It appears it's true. In this list Real is on position 31 with £131.4million. See
> > >
> > > https://m.allfootballapp.com/news/La-Liga/The-50-clubs-in-world-football-with-the-biggest-net-spend-since-2012/2837220
> > >
> > > I found similar things in other places also so it looks like this is how it is. All I can say is UNBELIEVABLE. Say what you want about him but if this is true, and it appears it is, the man is pure genius at running a football club.
> > I meant Perez of course.
> I've been thinking some more.
> The 2 lists, mine and Alkamista's, have some discrepancies but are generally similar in their common part, that is places 1-20.
>
> Looks like Real are by far the best run football club in the world, right ? 5 of the last 10 Cups, spending close to 0 compared to other clubs. Still find it hard to believe.
> At the other end we have Man United. Spending over a billion with almost nothing to show for it. I understand the Glazers have apologized to the fans for this. They should. It used to be the best run club in the world in Ferguson's time.
> Real payed 94 million Euros in 2009 for Ronaldo, and sold him 9 years later to Juve for a profit. And in the meantime he won them 4 Champions Leagues. Must be the best business ever done in football.
>
> All this means of course that Real aren't in the business of buying trophies any more. They did it once, they even started it but right now, that is in the last 10 years or so, they're not doing it. They're the good guys, believe it or not.
> > On the other hand you have brilliantly run clubs like Liverpool and Bayern, who punch way above their financials outlays.
> Real is the first to be mentioned in this respect, as it seems.

So ? Is it true or not ?
Cause if it is, I think it's a rather big story. Should be known by everybody with a minimal interest in football. Which right now doesn't seem to be the case.